Margaret, As regards Lord Balgray and the story of Lawers you may wish to look at the website www.highlandstrathearn.com. It provides and overview of Lawers, Loch Tay, and Lawers in Strathearn. I also created it! I was also responsible for twinning Carleton Place, Ontario and Comrie in Strathearn. Many MacGregors or McGregors took the name Drummond after the proscription. Their story is also provided in the website. I will be living two miles from Lawers, Strathearn, in two weeks time Regards Peter On 13/02/2011 5:24 PM, perthshire-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Rentals (MARGARET KIPP) > 2. Re: Part of name unknown (Janet MacDonald) > 3. Re: Part of name unknown (Ryk& Heather) > 4. Looking for more "Drummond" family connections for > Perthshire!!! (TWMc) > 5. Re: Looking for more "Drummond" family connections > forPerthshire!!! (Ryk& Heather) > 6. Re: Mwriache (Gordon Johnson) > 7. Re: Part of name unknown (E. James Buttars) > 8. Re: Part of name unknown (Ranald McIntyre) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 08:17:54 -0800 (PST) > From: MARGARET KIPP<margaretkipp@rogers.com> > Subject: [PERTHSHIRE] Rentals > To: perthshire@rootsweb.com > Message-ID:<418100.64159.qm@web88304.mail.re4.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Thank you, Mary, for the leads on land rentals.? I am now trying to figure out who Lord Balgray, James Campbell and the Laird of Laweris are.? These seem to be the likely suspects as landlords to my ancesters (along with the Breadalbane crew). > ? > Margaret > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 16:39:06 +0000 (GMT) > From: Janet MacDonald<glaschujan@yahoo.co.uk> > Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Part of name unknown > To: perthshire@rootsweb.com > Message-ID:<445031.35968.qm@web28212.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > It could possibly be the male name Muireadach, aka Muireach, at that date. > ? > Janet > ? > ? > ? > ? > I?am researching the McIntyre in and around Balquhidder. > > I have come across the following,? but what could the first name be ? > > *Mwriache* Makintyir > > That person would have been living in 1590. > > I have Donald - Daniel - John - Malcolm - Robert - William - James - Andrew. > > Any Suggestions ? > > Ranald McIntyre > Falkirk UK > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 13:42:23 -0500 > From: "Ryk& Heather"<ryk.heather@cogeco.ca> > Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Part of name unknown > To:<perthshire@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID:<83F917DAA39C4C49B6FD6DBA46BC9401@RykHeatherPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > In that era a "w" was often used to represent the sound "oo." Which is why > I was going to suggest the same thing as Janet. If this is a typed or > transcribed source then I might question the accuracy of the original > transcription. However if this is a handwritten source I would be happy to > look at the handwriting and offer an opinion if you want to send it to me at > ryk.heather@cogeco.ca . > > If it's not Muireach then it may also be a corrupted patronymic, which is > why I would want to look at the original entry in its context. > > Ryk Brown > Stewarts of Balquhidder Research Group > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janet MacDonald"<glaschujan@yahoo.co.uk> > > It could possibly be the male name Muireadach, aka Muireach, at that date. > Janet > > > I am researching the McIntyre in and around Balquhidder. > > I have come across the following, but what could the first name be ? > > *Mwriache* Makintyir > > That person would have been living in 1590. > > I have Donald - Daniel - John - Malcolm - Robert - William - James - Andrew. > > Any Suggestions ? > > Ranald McIntyre > Falkirk UK > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 19:54:30 GMT > From: "TWMc"<tomwdcraftr@juno.com> > Subject: [PERTHSHIRE] Looking for more "Drummond" family connections > for Perthshire!!! > To: perthshire@rootsweb.com > Message-ID:<20110213.115430.14841.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > I very much appreciate the help this group has offered me!! I think my search may be a somewhat complicated one, but always appreciate the help and advice of the group!! My closest Drummond ancestor was born as Helen Drummond in 1800 in Old Monkland, Lanarkshire, and died Ellen (Drummond) Todd in 1863 in Fergus, Wellington County, Ontario. Her birth record indicates born to Alexander Drummond and Helen Diet. (Note: I've seen other birth records for who may be the same couple and Helen's name varies from Diet, to Dyet, Dyatt, and Dyer. I wonder also, if Dewar might be an option??). Appreciate any knowledge if these might sound similar with the Scottish accent?? Our family (and I've found others descended from Ellen/Helen) indicated that her maiden name was "MacGregor or McGregor". However, on her Daughter's marriage record to my Great Grandfather William John McMillan in Canada, it indicated the maiden name of "Drummond". I have come to an understanding of the "proscripti! on! > " in effect in Scotland from the early 1600's until 1774, which outlawed (by penalty of death) the name MacGregor/McGregor in Scotland. I have thought that might be the reason for using the name "Drummond", as I've learned many took on that name? I appreciate all the help offered here to try to help me to connect to the MacGregor/McGregor name!!! If there is such a connection, I'm still in the hopes of finding it. I have found that the Drummond family I seem to descend from was likely a "Traveller" family. They've shown as "basket makers, Chapman pedlars, licensed hawkers or halkers, Stomeware merchants, and such" on census records, death and birth records. It's also been mostly impossible to find any "marriage" records for most of these ancestors. The reason for that might be that they seemed to have marriage ceremonies within their own travelling groups, which were likely not formally recorded marriages?? Now, I have come into contact with indivicuals who I believe tie! in! > to the Drummond family line going back to my Helen/Ellen (Drummond) To > dd. They apparently descend from Helen/Ellen's Brother who was an Alexander Todd born in 1803 in Girthon, Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland. So far, the persons I've been in contact with have no knowledge about a "MacGreogor/Drummond" connection, so hard to know if one exists or not??? Now, I'm hoping to try to figure out the connection to "Perthshire". A friend in Ontario gave me information for my GG Grandmtoher's grave from Belsyde Cemetery in Fergus, Ontario. He said it indicates Ellen, wife of Matthew Todd, died November 30, 1863, 63 years old, from Perthshire, Scotland. Unfortunately, her maiden ame isn't indicated on the headstone but she was born Helen Drummond. I believe Matthew and Helen/Ellen Todd likely had one or two children in Perthshire, and it seems it may have been Perthshire they left about 1855 when they likely immigrated to Canada. Perhaps, Perthshire was thier base, as I believe this Todd family were also "travellers" selling their wares in Scotland. Matt! he! > w was a horse dealer and farrier in Ontario. One of his Sons became a very successful and lucrative businessman in the US having owned flour mills, mining interests, and property. Interestingly, his name was Robert McGregor Todd. Robert's younger Brother was John Drummond Todd, and was a plasterer in Canada later moving to Michigan, and was a lay minister. Robert& John would have been my G Grandmtoher Anderson (Todd) McMillan's Brothers. Now, I'm seeing that others related to Helen/Ellen were born in Perthshire, Scotland. A lot of these were Alexander Drummonds. This seemed to be a home for a lot of this Drummond family probably up to the 1950's and later perhaps. Look forward to any information. Thanks so much!! Tom McMillan (Washougal, WA) > ____________________________________________________________ > $65/Hr Job - 25 Openings > Part-Time job ($20-$65/hr). Requirements: Home Internet Access > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4d58373ee838936f399st02vuc > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 15:24:15 -0500 > From: "Ryk& Heather"<ryk.heather@cogeco.ca> > Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Looking for more "Drummond" family > connections forPerthshire!!! > To:<perthshire@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID:<BB280EFF917E4259BBE0991622AB1F3F@RykHeatherPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Yes, Drummond was a VERY common alias for McGregor in Perthshire, especially > in the Strathearn area. > > I'm not positive about the Dewar/Dyer connection but I believe they are > legitimate variants of each other. We have others on this forum who are > more knowledgeable about Dewar than I am. > > Ryk Brown > Stewarts of Balquhidder Research Group > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "TWMc"<tomwdcraftr@juno.com> > >> I very much appreciate the help this group has offered me!! I think my >> search may be a somewhat complicated one, but always appreciate the help >> and advice of the group!! My closest Drummond ancestor was born as Helen >> Drummond in 1800 in Old Monkland, Lanarkshire, and died Ellen (Drummond) >> Todd in 1863 in Fergus, Wellington County, Ontario. Her birth record >> indicates born to Alexander Drummond and Helen Diet. (Note: I've seen other >> birth records for who may be the same couple and Helen's name varies from >> Di >> et, to Dyet, Dyatt, and Dyer. I wonder also, if Dewar might be an >> option??). Appreciate any knowledge if these might sound similar with the >> Scottish accent?? Our family (and I've found others descended from >> Ellen/Helen) indicated that her maiden name was "MacGregor or McGregor". > <snip> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 21:31:27 +0000 > From: Gordon Johnson<gordon@kinhelp.co.uk> > Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Mwriache > To: perthshire@rootsweb.com > Message-ID:<4D584DAF.5080308@kinhelp.co.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > It could very well be Muireach, the gaelic name rendered as Murdoch or > Murdo in English. > Gordon. > > On 13/02/2011 08:00, Ranald wrote: >> I am researching the McIntyre in and around Balquhidder. >> >> I have come across the following, but what could the first name be ? >> >> *Mwriache* Makintyir >> >> That person would have been living in 1590. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 07:37:17 +1000 > From: "E. James Buttars"<chiefqld@optusnet.com.au> > Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Part of name unknown > To:<perthshire@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID:<000c01cbcbc6$31018f20$9304ad60$@com.au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Could the following be of some help in establishing the English > pronunciation from the Gaelic original? > > > From the Black Book of Taymouth > Bond To Pursue The Clan M'Gregour for the Murder of Johne Drummond of > Drumnevennocht. > Under the heading of BANDS > 112. At Mugdoge Inispeffre and Drummen and Balloche the xx, xxiiii, and > thrattei dayis of October 1589 ... before thir vitness Robert Grahame of > Auchinlocht William Drummond of Pitcairnis. > Drummond. Johne Earl of Montroiss, Duncan Campbell of > Glenurquhay. Inchesfray. > 113. The Earl of Montroiss binds himself to raise thirty men, my Lord > Drommond and his friends forty, and the laird of Glenurquhay three score, to > pershow the said clan for revenge of Johne Drummondis slawchter. At > Kitcardin 21 December 1589. > 114. Johne Makintyr in Finglen Johne Roy Makintyir in Innerkerna, Patrik > Makintyir in Craigruye, and Mwriache Makintyir in Mwelagane, oblige > themselves conjuctly and severally, under the penalty of two hundred pounds, > to deliver Mwlcallum Makintyir to Duncan Campbell of Glennorquhaye, if he > shall be charged by the King's Majesty to be answerable for the said > Mwlcallum, and farter bind themselves never to serve or assist the Clan > Gregour without the license of the said Duncane Campbell; Alexander Reddoche > of Culyibragane, William Reddoche of Megorne, Colein Campbell, and Edward > Reddoche in Towdorne, witnesses. At Comrie 24 August 1590. > Regards, > James > > -----Original Message----- > From: perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of S Tryk > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 8:07 AM > To: perthshire@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Part of name unknown > > Looks like a version of Mary or Marjory to me: > > Mairi? Mhairi? Marslaidh? Maireagh? > > Sheila > > On 2/12/2011 3:52 PM, Ranald McIntyre wrote: >> I am researching the McIntyre in and around Balquhidder. >> >> I have come across the following, but what could the first name be ? >> >> *Mwriache* Makintyir >> >> That person would have been living in 1590. >> >> > When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except the > portion to which you are replying. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 22:24:00 +0000 > From: Ranald McIntyre<Ranald@McIntyre.me.uk> > Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Part of name unknown > To: perthshire@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > <AANLkTinZiMFaa0n2nO1L1XbXfsZM77Wik8rSwwV6fTEr@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hello Ryk > > In a second message just received, James has quoted the same source as mine, > namely The Black Book of Taymouth. It is of course the printed version, not > the original. > > On another subject, do we have any connection..... > > My McIntyre family tree goes back to about 1736 when Malcolm was born to > John Macintyre and his wife Katharine Stewart (spelling ?). This foregoing > has still to be confirmed, and to date no location has been found. > > Many thanks for your help, and that of the others. > > Ranald > > On 13 February 2011 18:42, Ryk& Heather<ryk.heather@cogeco.ca> wrote: > >> In that era a "w" was often used to represent the sound "oo." Which is why >> I was going to suggest the same thing as Janet. If this is a typed or >> transcribed source then I might question the accuracy of the original >> transcription. However if this is a handwritten source I would be happy to >> look at the handwriting and offer an opinion if you want to send it to me >> at >> ryk.heather@cogeco.ca . >> >> If it's not Muireach then it may also be a corrupted patronymic, which is >> why I would want to look at the original entry in its context. >> >> Ryk Brown >> Stewarts of Balquhidder Research Group >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Janet MacDonald"<glaschujan@yahoo.co.uk> >> >> It could possibly be the male name Muireadach, aka Muireach, at that date. >> Janet >> When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except the >> portion to which you are replying. >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the PERTHSHIRE list administrator, send an email to > PERTHSHIRE-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the PERTHSHIRE mailing list, send an email to PERTHSHIRE@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of PERTHSHIRE Digest, Vol 6, Issue 22 > *****************************************