Thanks Margaret Will do a " save " and see if the print comes out better. But I have not had to do that in the past. Jean ----- Original Message ----- From: Margaret O' Donnell To: perthshire@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 11:03 AM Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] scotlands people / Something has changed but I do not know what, at SP In the last two weeks - I tried to print out a new Image, old OPR which I have done before, but nothing came out just a blank page. I had to save the image to a temp folder, in my pictures folder, from there I sent it to my documents so I could print it out. The many images I have paid for in the past I can still view and print out as before. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean Hudson" <whudson@kingston.net> To: <PERTHSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com>; <ANGUS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 3:01 PM Subject: [PERTHSHIRE] scotlands people > > Help is requested using Scotland's People...I have not used it for a > while... > When I clicked on " view " for names I had paid for in the past, I was > given a page to open or save...clicked on open, but then had to determine > which document to use to actually view the certificate...when it came up, > it was so large, I could not view it on one page... > In the past, I could view the certificate on one page and print it... > Not sure what has changed or if I have missed something along the way... > Any assistance would be appreciated > > Thanks > Jean Wighton-Hudson > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Pat...will have a look at those sites and, yes, the people at Scotland's people are very helpful. Jean ----- Original Message ----- From: Pat Carson To: perthshire@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 11:47 AM Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] scotlands people I haven't experienced any recent problems, but I recognise some of what you are both saying from the past - when I upgraded my machine. I think it came down to the choice of 'viewer' that ScP offers. There is more info on that topic here http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?r=551&458 and here http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/faqs/index.aspx?45 Alternatively, send a 'contact us' message - I've always found them to be very helpful. http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?r=551&460 HTH Pat "Here's tae us! Wha's like us? Damn few! - an' they're a' deid!" Old Scots Toast -----Original Message----- From: perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Margaret O' Donnell Sent: 27 April 2010 16:04 To: perthshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] scotlands people / Something has changed but I do not know what, at SP In the last two weeks - <[snip]> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean Hudson" <whudson@kingston.net> To: <PERTHSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com>; <ANGUS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 3:01 PM Subject: [PERTHSHIRE] scotlands people > > Help is requested using Scotland's People...I have not used it for a > while... <[snip]> > Thanks > Jean Wighton-Hudson ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Help is requested using Scotland's People...I have not used it for a while... When I clicked on " view " for names I had paid for in the past, I was given a page to open or save...clicked on open, but then had to determine which document to use to actually view the certificate...when it came up, it was so large, I could not view it on one page... In the past, I could view the certificate on one page and print it... Not sure what has changed or if I have missed something along the way... Any assistance would be appreciated Thanks Jean Wighton-Hudson

Since we are on the subject of the IGI, has anyone been able to access their new revamped search site. I registered a month or so ago but they won't let me in!! Sherry

Hello to all I am hoping someone can help me, I am researching the Kennedy family from Kinloch-Rannoch , I have a Duncan Kennedy born c1812 Dull died 1864 Kinloch-Rannoch married to Christian Cameron born c1810 I think Kinloch Rannoch died 1895 in Glasgow There were 6 children from this marriage Christian b c1840 Catherine b c1845 married Magnus Laurenson in 1877 in Glasgow Catherine died 1890 in Glasgow , 3 children all born Glasgow it is also possible that Catherine had a daughter Catherine b c1874 before she married Magnus , she is on the 1881 census as Catherine Tait aged 7 living with the family in Glasgow (Twins ) Angus b c1847 married Marion Irvine 1883 in Glasgow Angus died 1819 in Glasgow 7 children all born Glasgow John b c1847 married Isabella McPherson 1876 in Perth John died 1914 in Little Dunkeld Margaret b c1838 married Peter McDonald 1861 in Kinloch Rannoch 5 children all born Glasgow Louisa b c1849 married James Thomson 1869 in Kinloch Rannoch they had 5 children all born Blair Athol Liz

Hello Rhoda. I hadn't seen this previously so thank you. Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Mike I have found Caroline in 1851. She and John were living in Seafield Place, Cullen, Banffshire. These are the details (with my brackets): John MACKAY, 34, Head, born Shurton, Caithness [(this is the Ancestry transcription. There is a 'Shurton' in Shetland, but probably should be 'Thurso'] Minister "Face" Church, Cullen [Free? church] Caroline C MACKAY, 22, wife, born Perth, Perthshire Barbara MILNE, 29, servant, born Speymouth, Morayshire Jane MCKENZIE, 14, servant, born Cullen, Banffshire. Rhoda

Hello Rhoda Thank you, I have seen that previously. Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello Mike I don't know if you have this information:- googling "Patton, Devonshaw" picked up an extract from a book "Genealogical Memoirs of John Knox and the Family of Knox" by Charles Rogers. The extract included a reference to the marriage in 1852 of Edward Hume b 24 April 1803 to "....Eliza, daughter of William Patton of Devonshaw, captain, 12th Royal Lancers, with issue, two sons and two daughters". This was Edward Hume's second marriage. He was a minister and in 1829 was ordained minister of Heriot in the county of Edinburgh. "He was translated to the parish of Pitsligo, Aberdeenshire, in 1834, and there died on the 1st April 1863, at the age of sixty". In the same book there is a reference to a Mary Anne, daughter of William Patton of Devonshaw. It says: John Hume, eighth son of David Hume of Castlemains, was born 5 February 1811. Settling in Ceylon, he married Mary Anne, daughter of William Patton of Devonshaw, captain, 12th Lancers, with issue, three sons and one daughter". See: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=xPber6rxTiYC&pg=PA158&lpg=PA158&dq=Patton,+Devonshaw&source=bl&ots=vls4kb3Nry&sig=JhBPvvktzOwxV0-10jIuzqS_2mY&hl=en&ei=NhzUS5-9AcLcsAaJ7_Ql&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Patton%2C%20Devonshaw&f=false Rhoda

Thanks Chris. Can you confirm the 18/12/1878 for Margt Anne please? That would make her probably well over 100!! Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MI James Paton of Glenalmond in Kinnoull: 153 mural. Jas PATON esq of Glenalmond 1751 1830. w Anne MARSHALL 9.10.1764 18.11.1857 s Jas Murray PATTON esq of Glenalmond 16.9.1790 25.12.1853 (w Margt 29.4.1877. only da Margt Anne 18.12.1878). Mrs LINDSAY 4.9.1887 sis of mrs J M PATON & widow of lieut col LINDSAY 91st Regt (ie. Aygyllshire Highlanders) p.44 North Perthshire City of Perth & Its Northern Environs Monumwental Inscriptions pre1855 Chris

** Excellent news, Chris! Gordon. On 26/04/2010 02:00, perthshire-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > The IGI is to be restructured later this year or early next year so that > patron submissions and extracts will be separated. > > Chris

The IGI is to be restructured later this year or early next year so that patron submissions and extracts will be separated. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon Johnson" <gordon@kinhelp.co.uk> To: <perthshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:56 PM Subject: [PERTHSHIRE] IGI v. OPRs > ** If I may simplify this discussion: > 1. The IGI/Familysearch is purely an INDEX, compiled in the 1970s and is > fairly complete for Church of Scotland registers held by Edinburgh at > that time. > 2. The OPRs are the actual baptismal & marriage banns registers of the > Church of Scotland. There are many other registers for other church > denominations - Roman Catholic; Episcopal Church of Scotland; > Congregational church; Baptists, and so on, many of which are not > indexed online. > 3. Scotlandspeople has a newer index to the OPRS (and some other church > registers), and it is not hampered by IGI "patron submissions" which are > often little more than guesses. > 4. Difficulties in finding children of a couple are mostly the > variability of OPRs in spellings; periods when only the father was > named; and occasions when families decided to have their child baptised > in another denomination; or when baptism was refused because the > minister regarded one or both parents as "unworthy". > There are many more complications which are minor in their effect. > Gordon. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

** If I may simplify this discussion: 1. The IGI/Familysearch is purely an INDEX, compiled in the 1970s and is fairly complete for Church of Scotland registers held by Edinburgh at that time. 2. The OPRs are the actual baptismal & marriage banns registers of the Church of Scotland. There are many other registers for other church denominations - Roman Catholic; Episcopal Church of Scotland; Congregational church; Baptists, and so on, many of which are not indexed online. 3. Scotlandspeople has a newer index to the OPRS (and some other church registers), and it is not hampered by IGI "patron submissions" which are often little more than guesses. 4. Difficulties in finding children of a couple are mostly the variability of OPRs in spellings; periods when only the father was named; and occasions when families decided to have their child baptised in another denomination; or when baptism was refused because the minister regarded one or both parents as "unworthy". There are many more complications which are minor in their effect. Gordon.

Hello from New Zealand. I would like some help please with the following. William and Caroline PATTON had 8 children. and William died in 1844. In 1851 Caroline and only her youngest daughter (Margaret Ann age 12) were living in the family home Devonshaw. Two sons James Murray (age 16) and Henry William (age 14) were living in Charlotte street, Perth with an Ann WALKER. Is anyone able to help with finding Caroline Charlotte MACKAY (nee PATTON) aged about 20 and born in Fossoway, married to a John MACKAY from Thurso in 1851? And with William Andrew PATTON who would also have been about 20 in 1851 and also born in Fossoway. Then Mary Ann PATTON aged about 23 in 1851, also from Fossoway. It may help to find her if I tell you she married John Alexander HUME in May 1852 in Pitsligo so they may have been living in the same area in 1851. But I haven't found JAH in 1851 either!! I think the second daughter Eliza was in service as a Governess in London in 1851. Finally the eldest daughter, Isabella Caroline would have been 25 in 1851 and could have been anywhere!!! She married Alexander MILNE, a minister, in Chelsea in 1859. Thanks for any help with any of those children. Mike in Kawerau NZ

Hello I wondered if there is anywhere that I can get MIs for people who died in Perthshire? They died in the 1840/50/60s and so would have been buried. William PATTON 1844 Devonshaw, not really Perthshire but close and likely to have been buried there. James PATTON 1830 Kinnoull (?). James Murray PATTON 1853 Kinmorell. Thomas PATTON 1869 Crieff. George PATTON 1869 Creiff. Thank you Mike

Hi Mike I have found Caroline in 1851. She and John were living in Seafield Place, Cullen, Banffshire. These are the details (with my brackets): John MACKAY, 34, Head, born Shurton, Caithness [(this is the Ancestry transcription. There is a 'Shurton' in Shetland, but probably should be 'Thurso'] Minister "Face" Church, Cullen [Free? church] Caroline C MACKAY, 22, wife, born Perth, Perthshire Barbara MILNE, 29, servant, born Speymouth, Morayshire Jane MCKENZIE, 14, servant, born Cullen, Banffshire. Rhoda

Hello Mike I don't know if you have this information:- googling "Patton, Devonshaw" picked up an extract from a book "Genealogical Memoirs of John Knox and the Family of Knox" by Charles Rogers. The extract included a reference to the marriage in 1852 of Edward Hume b 24 April 1803 to "....Eliza, daughter of William Patton of Devonshaw, captain, 12th Royal Lancers, with issue, two sons and two daughters". This was Edward Hume's second marriage. He was a minister and in 1829 was ordained minister of Heriot in the county of Edinburgh. "He was translated to the parish of Pitsligo, Aberdeenshire, in 1834, and there died on the 1st April 1863, at the age of sixty". In the same book there is a reference to a Mary Anne, daughter of William Patton of Devonshaw. It says: John Hume, eighth son of David Hume of Castlemains, was born 5 February 1811. Settling in Ceylon, he married Mary Anne, daughter of William Patton of Devonshaw, captain, 12th Lancers, with issue, three sons and one daughter". See: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=xPber6rxTiYC&pg=PA158&lpg=PA158&dq=Patton,+Devonshaw&source=bl&ots=vls4kb3Nry&sig=JhBPvvktzOwxV0-10jIuzqS_2mY&hl=en&ei=NhzUS5-9AcLcsAaJ7_Ql&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Patton%2C%20Devonshaw&f=false Rhoda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike" <casofilia@xtra.co.nz> To: <perthshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:39 AM Subject: [PERTHSHIRE] PATTON children 1851 > Hello from New Zealand. > > I would like some help please with the following. > > William and Caroline PATTON had 8 children. and William died in 1844. > > In 1851 Caroline and only her youngest daughter (Margaret Ann age 12) were > living in the family home Devonshaw. >

MI James Paton of Glenalmond in Kinnoull: 153 mural. Jas PATON esq of Glenalmond 1751 1830. w Anne MARSHALL 9.10.1764 18.11.1857 s Jas Murray PATTON esq of Glenalmond 16.9.1790 25.12.1853 (w Margt 29.4.1877. only da Margt Anne 18.12.1878). Mrs LINDSAY 4.9.1887 sis of mrs J M PATON & widow of lieut col LINDSAY 91st Regt (ie. Aygyllshire Highlanders) p.44 North Perthshire City of Perth & Its Northern Environs Monumwental Inscriptions pre1855 Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike" <casofilia@xtra.co.nz> To: <PERTHSHIRE@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:05 AM Subject: [PERTHSHIRE] MIs > Hello > > I wondered if there is anywhere that I can get MIs for people who died in > Perthshire? They died in the 1840/50/60s and so would have been buried. > > William PATTON 1844 Devonshaw, not really Perthshire but close and likely > to have been buried there. > James PATTON 1830 Kinnoull (?). > James Murray PATTON 1853 Kinmorell. > Thomas PATTON 1869 Crieff. > George PATTON 1869 Creiff. > > Thank you > > Mike > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

As a follow on to Chris's comparisons of info in the OPRs compared with the IGIs , let me quote an example from my family search . IGI Jannet Lamont , Born 19th 1804 and Christened 30th March 1804 in the Parish of Dunoon and Kilmun , Argyll Father : Neil Lamont Mother Janet McPherson . If I look at the OPR for Dunoon and Kilmun I find the following extract for this birth : OPR 1804 : On 19th January , Jannet , posthumous child of Neil Lamont , tenant in Kilellan and Janet McPherson , his widow . John Lamont tenant in Kilellan , sponsor . Baptised 30th March . The OPR informs me that Neil had died prior to the death of his child ( remember deaths are singularly absent from most OPRs ) are given his occupation ( tenant farmer ) and the name of the child’s sponsor ( his brother ) . Perhaps a somewhat unusual example but indicative of info differences between the two . Col

Just to add to that - a great deal of IGI material is on ScotlandsPeople, with the exception of dissenting church material, and you'll get some idea of what is available from Hugh Wallis' batch numbers site at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountryScotland.htm#PageTitle. However, even with established church records, I have on a few occasions found entries in Church of Scotland records on ScotlandsPeople or on microfilm, which even though they should have been extracted and placed on the IGI, are not there. You may do a children search on the IGI, for example, and find five kids' births returned which are clearly extracted from a baptismal register of the Church of Scotland. On checking the original, though, you may find a sixth or seventh child also. It is rare, but it has happened to me quite a few times. Bottom line is that the IGI is a great finding aid, but that whilst it is always advisable to watch out for innaccurate patron submissions on the database, it is also equally worth bearing in mind what may not be there - always check the origianl registers not just for the fully fleshed out entries, but also for missing entries not extracted.On patron submissions, I believe there is a major development forthcoming concerning how the IGI is structured online, which will separate proper extractred material from patron submissions - either later this year or early 2011. Here's an extreme example of why it is wise to check the full entry on ScotlandsPeople (or original register): IGI: Margaretta Sarah Tyrwhill Brown, female (Baptism) Christening: 26 DEC 1807 Perth, Perth, Scotland Father Jonathan Brown Mother Julia Anna Craddock Batch No: C119476 Dates: 1806-1812 Source Call No: 1040159 Type: Film Printout Call No: 6902908 Type: Film ScotlandsPeople/OPR register: Perth the Twenty first day of October One thousand and eight hundred and seven years was born Margaretta Sarah Tyrwhill Brown Eldest lawful Daughter to Jonathan Brown from New Brunswick British America Captain of the Seventy Fifth Regiment of Foot, and Julia Anna Cradock his spouse, Daughter to Marmaduke Cradock of the Parish of Gainsford County of Durham, Margaret Waddington his spouse, daughter to Sheldon Cradock Nowforth Deceased, and, Sarah Williamson his spouse, great Granddaughter by the Mothers side to Sir John Tyrwhill deceased of Haysfield county of Lincoln. The above named Margaretta was baptized the twenty sixth December said year by the Reverend Dr Grant Minister of the Episcopal Congregation at Dundee. The first IGI entry names both parents - the latter names eight generations! It's extreme, but in most cases you may find place of residence, possibly witness names, and in cases of marriages, father's names. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: <CaledonC@aol.com> To: <perthshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 6:30 AM Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Ellen Laird > > Small point regarding what is in the IGIs and what is in ScotlandsPeople > following the point made by Peter > > If the entries are on IGI, they should be on Scotland's People. > Not necessarily , sometimes the baptismal and marriage records of the > Presbyterian Secession Churches ( and there are more than a few ! ) are > found in the IGIs but not in ScotlandsPeople ,An example applicable to > Perthshire is that of Crieff and the UP ( United Presbyterian ) Churches . Bearing > in mind that the adherance to the UPs out numbered that of the Established > Church it is worth checking out . A good way to check your place or parish > out is to check out the archival holdings on SCAN ( Scottish Archival > Network ) who have an online search facility . Just put in the place name and > it will list the holdings and where they can be accessed . > > Good luck > > Col > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Small point regarding what is in the IGIs and what is in ScotlandsPeople following the point made by Peter If the entries are on IGI, they should be on Scotland's People. Not necessarily , sometimes the baptismal and marriage records of the Presbyterian Secession Churches ( and there are more than a few ! ) are found in the IGIs but not in ScotlandsPeople ,An example applicable to Perthshire is that of Crieff and the UP ( United Presbyterian ) Churches . Bearing in mind that the adherance to the UPs out numbered that of the Established Church it is worth checking out . A good way to check your place or parish out is to check out the archival holdings on SCAN ( Scottish Archival Network ) who have an online search facility . Just put in the place name and it will list the holdings and where they can be accessed . Good luck Col

The GROS index (the online contract is rum by Scotlandspeople.gov.uk) will have much more than the IGI. It's based on a one-time filming of the GROS (which is primarily Presbyterian In a message dated 1/23/2010 1:20:52 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, peterbooth2@bigpond.com writes: Dale / Margaret, If you click on Google maps, and search for Kinnaird, Scotland, you will find it about 10 kms north east of the city of Perth. You could also try looking on Genuki under towns and parishes for a detailed description. It looks like the full name could be Kinnaird by Errol. I can see the 1829 christening of Hellen Stewart Laird at Dunkeld on IGI. Dunkeld looks about 15 kms north of Perth, so about 25 kms from Kinnaird. William Laird married Christian Black at Dunkeld in 1826. If the entries are on IGI, they should be on Scotland's People. You may need to look harder and try a few variants. I'd even start with 1841 census. You don't give any subsequent events for Ellen Laird. Her marriage or death certificate should give parent names. Immigration records or births of children will confirm age and origins. There's lots of places to look. Peter in Sydney ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message