Don't forget the occasional Nettie! The Gaelic form of Janet is also Seonaid (pronounced Shon-ij). Chris -------------------------------------------------- From: "Yvonne Bean" <ykb@gil.com.au> Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 8:54 AM To: <perthshire@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Janet and Jane > It has always been Janet = Jane = Jean = Jessie > > I've been researching in Scotland for over 30 years & have seen examples > of > this in Parish, Census & other records. > > BonnieB > > Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Janet and Jane > > On 12/08/2010 08:00, Kay wrote: >> "Janet" and "Jane" are interchangeable. >> > ** Perhaps in some circumstances, as Janet was originally the pet form, or > diminutive, of Jane, but in recent centuries, Jane and Jean are the same, > and Jessie, sometimes Jess, is the familiar form of Janet. The Oxford Book > of English Christian Names says in its article on Janet " > It is now chiefly used in Scotland and is generally given as an > independent > name sometimes in the diminutive forn Netta or Nettie. In an article on > Jessie, it says "A Scottish diminutive of Janet, now often used as an > independent name". > Gordon. > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Just to add that I've had several ancestors who used; Jean and Jane; Jane and Janet; and Jessie and Janet interchangeably. On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 2:22 PM, J Blain <jenny.blain@freeuk.com> wrote: > Just to add to this: > I haven't found Janet and Jean to be interchangeable - though Jane > and Jean are in the older records. However Janet often became either > Jessie (as Gordon said) or Jenny. > > Jenny > >>On 12/08/2010 08:00, Kay wrote: >>>  "Janet" and "Jane" are interchangeable. >>> >>** Perhaps in some circumstances, as Janet was originally the pet form, >>or diminutive, of Jane, but in recent centuries, Jane and Jean are the >>same, and Jessie, sometimes Jess, is the familiar form of Janet. The >>Oxford Book of English Christian Names says in its article on  Janet " >>It is now chiefly used in Scotland and is generally given as an >>independent name sometimes in the diminutive forn Netta or Nettie. In an >>article on Jessie, it says "A Scottish diminutive of Janet, now often >>used as an independent name". >>Gordon. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Just to add to this: I haven't found Janet and Jean to be interchangeable - though Jane and Jean are in the older records. However Janet often became either Jessie (as Gordon said) or Jenny. Jenny >On 12/08/2010 08:00, Kay wrote: >> "Janet" and "Jane" are interchangeable. >> >** Perhaps in some circumstances, as Janet was originally the pet form, >or diminutive, of Jane, but in recent centuries, Jane and Jean are the >same, and Jessie, sometimes Jess, is the familiar form of Janet. The >Oxford Book of English Christian Names says in its article on Janet " >It is now chiefly used in Scotland and is generally given as an >independent name sometimes in the diminutive forn Netta or Nettie. In an >article on Jessie, it says "A Scottish diminutive of Janet, now often >used as an independent name". >Gordon.

On 12/08/2010 08:00, Kay wrote: > "Janet" and "Jane" are interchangeable. > ** Perhaps in some circumstances, as Janet was originally the pet form, or diminutive, of Jane, but in recent centuries, Jane and Jean are the same, and Jessie, sometimes Jess, is the familiar form of Janet. The Oxford Book of English Christian Names says in its article on Janet " It is now chiefly used in Scotland and is generally given as an independent name sometimes in the diminutive forn Netta or Nettie. In an article on Jessie, it says "A Scottish diminutive of Janet, now often used as an independent name". Gordon.

Kathy - a Google search for ship eagle 1843 yields some URLs that might give you useful information. Regards - Glen C. Bodie Web http://Bodie.CA Home mailto:glen@glenbodie.com or mailto:Glen.Bodie@gmail.com Cell mailto:TyTN@Bodie.ca (no attachments) Snail Mail: 76 Strathcona Ave, Toronto, Ontario, Canada M4J 1G8 -----Original Message----- Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 14:15:09 -0400 From: Kathleen Ogg-Moss <koggmoss@gmail.com> Subject: [PERTHSHIRE] Duff To: Perthshire@rootsweb.com Is there any way of finding a list of people from Perthshire who emigrated to Canada in 1843? I am particularly interested in the ship called "Eagle" which carried 90+ passengers. I have a Janet Duff on that ship listed as a spinster. A Jane Duff is also listed in a letter as being on that ship. Would these two people be the same persons? Thank you Kathy

"Janet" and "Jane" are interchangeable Regards Kay

Is there any way of finding a list of people from Perthshire who emigrated to Canada in 1843? I am particularly interested in the ship called "Eagle" which carried 90+ passengers. I have a Janet Duff on that ship listed as a spinster. A Jane Duff is also listed in a letter as being on that ship. Would these two people be the same persons? Thank you Kathy

Dear Margaret Thank you so much for your assistance. You have helped to make my day! Warm regards Cathy On 31/07/2010, at 11:34 PM, Margaret O' Donnell wrote: > Hi Cathy, > These are on the IGI but you will get the Original Certificates from > Scotlands People web site. > Register and get a password to use. £6.GBP gives you 30 credits. > A marriage for a JOHN CAMPBELL and a MARY ANN MURIE on the 3rd Sep. > 1866 in > Bathgate West Lothian. (will cost 6 credits in total from SP) > A birth of JAMES CAMPBELL to the above couple 31st Dec. 1866 in > Muckhart > Perth.( will cost 6 credits in Total from SP) > I would get the Marriage and Birth certificates first then the 1871 > census. > Scottish Marriage certificate will give the couples ages and both > sets of > parents. > Kind Regards > Margaret > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cathy Dowie" <cathyppp@xtra.co.nz> > To: <PERTHSHIRE@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 4:56 AM > Subject: [PERTHSHIRE] John Campbell and Mary Ann nee Murie,of Alloa or > Muckart > > >> >> I am currently researching my great aunt's husband. He was James >> Campbell born to the above parents >> on 31 Dec 1866 in Muckhart Perth, or Alloa Sct. >> >> Is anyone else researching this family? >> >> James emigrated to New Zealand circa 1893. >> >> Any assistance welcome. >> >> Cathy >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Rhoda, Many many thanks for your kindness and for responding so promptly. This is very exciting news for me, Cathy On 31/07/2010, at 11:43 PM, CandROverson wrote: > Hello Cathy > > I am not researching this family but can tell you that the James > Campbell > you seek is the one born in Muckhart. He was born in Pool of > Muckhart on 31 > December 1866 to John Campbell, a cooper, and Mary Ann Murie who were > married in Bathgate (presumably the one in West Lothian - I don't > know of > any other) on September 3 1866 (the date and place of marriage > given on > their son's birth registration). > > In 1871, this couple and James were living in Gaberston Road, Alloa > where > there was a large brewery, and John could presumably ply his trade > as a > cooper. With them was another son, John, born in Alloa abt 1868/9 > (1871 > Census on Ancestry). > > The marriage registration should give you the names of the parents > of John > Campbell and Mary Ann Murie. The image can be downloaded from the > Scotlands > People website at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk > where I found the image of the birth registration of James Campbell. > > I will send you the image off-list. > > Rhoda > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cathy Dowie" <cathyppp@xtra.co.nz> > To: <PERTHSHIRE@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 4:56 AM > Subject: [PERTHSHIRE] John Campbell and Mary Ann nee Murie,of Alloa or > Muckart > > >> I am currently researching my great aunt's husband. He was James >> Campbell born to the above parents >> on 31 Dec 1866 in Muckhart Perth, or Alloa Sct. > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Liane - Pre 1855, you are relying solely on the parish records as civil registration didn't begin until 1855. There were a few non-conformist Presbyterian churches around at that time, so you may have to go search to find him in one of these. Many of these records have not been indexed as yet. The record you are most probably looking at is the OPR (Old Parish Register) Index which is mainly based on the Established Church. BonnieB Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] John Gibb and Margaret Sim of Perth > There are actually only 4 John Gibbs born in Perthshire within 5 years of > 1784. In the census, John Gibb said he was born in Perth [city] & he was > evidently still in the city in 1827 when his youngest son was baptized > there. > > My new information is his death record which I just downloaded - no idea > why > I haven't done this before - and it says his father was James Gibb. Only > the John Gib baptized in Perth had a father named James. >

I am currently researching my great aunt's husband. He was James Campbell born to the above parents on 31 Dec 1866 in Muckhart Perth, or Alloa Sct. Is anyone else researching this family? James emigrated to New Zealand circa 1893. Any assistance welcome. Cathy

Hello Cathy I am not researching this family but can tell you that the James Campbell you seek is the one born in Muckhart. He was born in Pool of Muckhart on 31 December 1866 to John Campbell, a cooper, and Mary Ann Murie who were married in Bathgate (presumably the one in West Lothian - I don't know of any other) on September 3 1866 (the date and place of marriage given on their son's birth registration). In 1871, this couple and James were living in Gaberston Road, Alloa where there was a large brewery, and John could presumably ply his trade as a cooper. With them was another son, John, born in Alloa abt 1868/9 (1871 Census on Ancestry). The marriage registration should give you the names of the parents of John Campbell and Mary Ann Murie. The image can be downloaded from the Scotlands People website at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk where I found the image of the birth registration of James Campbell. I will send you the image off-list. Rhoda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cathy Dowie" <cathyppp@xtra.co.nz> To: <PERTHSHIRE@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 4:56 AM Subject: [PERTHSHIRE] John Campbell and Mary Ann nee Murie,of Alloa or Muckart >I am currently researching my great aunt's husband. He was James > Campbell born to the above parents > on 31 Dec 1866 in Muckhart Perth, or Alloa Sct.

Hi Cathy, These are on the IGI but you will get the Original Certificates from Scotlands People web site. Register and get a password to use. £6.GBP gives you 30 credits. A marriage for a JOHN CAMPBELL and a MARY ANN MURIE on the 3rd Sep. 1866 in Bathgate West Lothian. (will cost 6 credits in total from SP) A birth of JAMES CAMPBELL to the above couple 31st Dec. 1866 in Muckhart Perth.( will cost 6 credits in Total from SP) I would get the Marriage and Birth certificates first then the 1871 census. Scottish Marriage certificate will give the couples ages and both sets of parents. Kind Regards Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cathy Dowie" <cathyppp@xtra.co.nz> To: <PERTHSHIRE@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 4:56 AM Subject: [PERTHSHIRE] John Campbell and Mary Ann nee Murie,of Alloa or Muckart > > I am currently researching my great aunt's husband. He was James > Campbell born to the above parents > on 31 Dec 1866 in Muckhart Perth, or Alloa Sct. > > Is anyone else researching this family? > > James emigrated to New Zealand circa 1893. > > Any assistance welcome. > > Cathy > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

>>Pre 1855, you are relying solely on the parish records as civil registration didn't begin until 1855. There were a few non-conformist Presbyterian churches around at that time, so you may have to go search to Understand about the various congregations and churches. Peacock's "Perth: its annals and its archives" lists quite a few congregations on p. 508 (as well as Methodists, Baptists, Independents) but that was present time [1848 publication date], were they active in 1784? I do see on the NAS catalogue: Records of Free, United Presbyterian (UP), United Free (UF) and Other Protestant Churches1725-1891 John Gibb's 1784 bap was performed by Rev John Duff who seems to have come to Perth in 1772. Other baptisms on the same page include one by 'Mr Alexander Pringle minister of the Associate Congregation' and 'Mr Adam Peebles minister of the Episcopal Congregation' in Perth. His parents were married by Mr. John Jervey of the Seceding Congregation in 1780. Any enlightenment on Perth congregations and availability of records for the time frame is welcome. Liane

Hi Liane Just one word of caution: not all births were registered before 1855 and your John GIBB could have been one of those. I have 1 SIM in my tree - a Jean SIM who married Robert FOWLIS in Findo-Gask, Perthshire in 1790. Unfortunately because the early marriage records usually give the barest of details, I don't know the names of her parents. Rhoda ----- Original Message ----- From: "liane" <liane@columbus.rr.com> To: <perthshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 10:31 PM Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] John Gibb and Margaret Sim of Perth > There are actually only 4 John Gibbs born in Perthshire within 5 years of > 1784. In the census, John Gibb said he was born in Perth [city] & he was > evidently still in the city in 1827 when his youngest son was baptized > there. > > My new information is his death record which I just downloaded - no idea > why > I haven't done this before - and it says his father was James Gibb. Only > the John Gib baptized in Perth had a father named James. >

Liane, Firstly make doubly sure you have the right one. There are hundreds of possibilities born around 1784, so the chances of getting the wrong one are high. Cross check with data from 1841, 1851 and 1861 census. If you have the right one, John looks to be one of nine children born to James Gibb and Margaret Sim. You'll find these with a parent search on IGI. You need to use Family Search in conjunction with Scotland's People and only pay where an extended record is required.. If you look at the full record of the 1808 marriage of John Gibbs or his 1864 death on Scotland's People, it should give his age, occupation, parents and residence. Compare this with data from IGI and census records. You might also look at Wills on Scotland's People for both John and his father. You could also look for submitted family trees at Rootsweb or Ancestry. Peter in Sydney

You're probably right, Ryk. Mine was a wild guess :) What lovely names, either way! Tina ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ryk & Heather" <ryk.heather@cogeco.ca> > Gaelic place names get corrupted all the time so when looking for a > particularly place it's always a good idea to look for anything that looks > even remotely similar. So Tina's suggestion below is certainly warranted. > That being said I'm inclined to think that Carn a Mheanbh-Chruidh is > probably not the same place as Cuith. > > Carn a Mheanbh-Chruidh = "cairn of the little horseshoe" > Cuith (Cuithe) = "wreath of snow" > > As each of these place names is a legitimate name on it's own I'm inclined > to think that one has not been corrupted into the other. > > However, having just received John Moon's suggestion of "Cuilt" I'm now > going to contradict myself. Cuilt ("woods") is a very common place name > and could easily have been mis-read or mis-transcribed as "Cuith". I > would be inclined to lean towards Cuilt as the more likely of the two > suggestions so far. > > I'm afraid I'm not familiar enough with place names in Moulin to offer a > more informed opinion. > > Ryk Brown > Stewarts of Balquhidder Research Group > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tina Morgan" <tina.morgan@dsl.pipex.com> >> If you go to the Ordnance Survey 'old maps' website, and search for >> Moulin, >> there are 4 old maps. One is 1:2500 from the year 1867. There is >> something >> on there called Carn a Mheanbh-Chruidh. I wonder if this is it. >> >> This link might work - not sure! >> http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/search_item/index.php?service=RCAHMS&id=26275 >> >> Tina >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Gaye Ruru" <rurug@xtra.co.nz> >> To: <PERTHSHIRE@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 6:13 AM >> Subject: [PERTHSHIRE] 1806-7 Census of Moulin - living at "Cuith" >> >>> Hi Listers, >>> If someone was listed in the above Census as living at "Cuith in Moulin" >>> where abouts in the Moulin Parish would they be living. Any suggestions >>> welcomed. >>> >>> Gaye in New Zealand. >>> >>>

This link takes you to and old map of Perthshire (by James Stobie). It is in 4 sections. Ciick on the top RH section. Magnify the image and navigate around until you see Moulin. Close by is Cuilt. http://www.nls.uk/maps/joins/664.html John

If you go to the Ordnance Survey 'old maps' website, and search for Moulin, there are 4 old maps. One is 1:2500 from the year 1867. There is something on there called Carn a Mheanbh-Chruidh. I wonder if this is it. This link might work - not sure! http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/search_item/index.php?service=RCAHMS&id=26275 Tina ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gaye Ruru" <rurug@xtra.co.nz> To: <PERTHSHIRE@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 6:13 AM Subject: [PERTHSHIRE] 1806-7 Census of Moulin - living at "Cuith" > Hi Listers, > > > > If someone was listed in the above Census as living at "Cuith in Moulin" > where abouts in the Moulin Parish would they be living. Any suggestions > welcomed. > > > > Gaye in New Zealand. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Gaye Can you tell me which other properties are listed near to "Cuith" that might be a help. I am at the research Centre tomorrow so will have a look at the census and some old maps Kay