Hi John: It is interesting when you try and figure out where these places are. I am definitely looking for the Parish of Rhynd as the Census lists the location. But you mentioned the old farm between Ferryport on the Tay and St. Andrews. This may be an old family farm as the McPherson's that I have. David in particular was born in Leuchars which is very close to the location that you mentioned. And his mother was Isabella Rhynd. So yes it does pay to know what you are searching for. And yes it can be maddening - this Grange of Elcho had driven me nuts, but I think I have it figured out now. Brenda ----- Original Message ----- From: "John H. Beach" <john_h_beach@compuserve.com> To: <perthshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 12:36 AM Subject: [PERTHSHIRE] Careful with look alike names > Hi, > > You really have to know what you are looking for and where and when. > Names may be the same or close and yet not the same. Spelling means a > lot too. They can be in different locations, close or far apart and > maybe renamed over time. Knowing the parish might help, but now always. > > Rhynd is in Perthshire or is it? well it is a parish in Perth, but also > names to several sections of this parish; Easter Rhynd, etc. There was > an old farm called Rhynd between Ferryport on the Tay and St. Andrews. > > Then I talked about the Fingask farm in Rhynd, which went back many > hundred years. This is not to be confused with the Rhynd Castle across > the Tay in Rait. > > And there is the town Abernethy near Newburgh. Many years ago a part of > it was was in Fife, but it is all in Perthshire now, but if you look > hard, there is an Abernethy in the Inverness / Banff region in northern > Scotland. > > One of the greatest things that caused confusion was many places that > took on names from prominent land owners and when they died or moved the > name might have changed, but often quietly remained as a token name > known by those living there years later. > > Thus research can be maddening unless you do your old history homework > first. Don't you just love genealogy;;;;; it is more than just names, > dates and places on paper or a tombstone. I know this because our > Skinners suckered me into this trap once or twice during my research. > > Note: Did you know that the Elcho woods was a hiding place for William > Wallace? He hid near his uncle's estate while picking on the English in > Perth several times? > > -- > Kind Regards, > > John H. Beach > Yonkers, NY. > > john_h_beach@compuserve.com Note: the "_" before and after the initial > "h" is an underscore character, not a dash or space. > > When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except > the portion to which you are replying. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 5593 (20101105) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5595 (20101105) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=wXVnAAAAMAAJ&q=grange+nunnery+perthshire&dq=grange+nunnery+perthshire&hl=en&ei=hz7TTP3lNsTXcabh-IgM&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAQ This may help but suggest check with your library to see if you can borrow any books before you buy Jenny - see Scottish Pages at http://howdiie.com > From: b-g.anderson@sympatico.ca > To: perthshire@rootsweb.com > Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 18:32:04 -0400 > Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Grange Nunnery > > This looks really interesting. It just might be time to spend some money. > > Brenda > Canada > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <BRUINSWOOD@aol.com> > To: <perthshire@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 6:18 PM > Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Grange Nunnery > > > > > > > > could this be it? reprint is $5, very reasonable....on add-all, shipping > > is $15. All-all has new and used books, I often search by parish name or > > are > > such as Carse of Gowrie, by a trade name or surname. I've had it return > > books with my surname Powrie, but it's usually Powrie castles, which we > > never > > owned. > > > > mary in oregon (i'm always reading books) > > > > James Ballingal > > > > The Rhynd and Elcho: A Parish History > > [_search for this title_ > > (/advancedSearch.do?title=The+Rhynd+and+Elcho:&author=James+Ballingal) ] > > > > Pranava Books 2009 > > 111 pages New. 2009. Reprinted from 1905 edition. PRANAVA BOOKS edition. > > This is a quality reprint of an old book of historical value. This is an > > exact/strict reproduction of text, no changes has been made in respect to > > the > > original. A lot of effort has been made to check and improve each > > page/scan > > manually for its quality of text and illustrations (if any, are in b/w). > > This is not a retyped or an ocr'd book. Index, contents, etc, if any in > > the > > original book, are included. The title of the book, on the cover, is in > > gold > > lettering. New > > > > > > > > When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except > > the portion to which you are replying. > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > > signature database 5592 (20101104) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5592 (20101104) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except the portion to which you are replying. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, You really have to know what you are looking for and where and when. Names may be the same or close and yet not the same. Spelling means a lot too. They can be in different locations, close or far apart and maybe renamed over time. Knowing the parish might help, but now always. Rhynd is in Perthshire or is it? well it is a parish in Perth, but also names to several sections of this parish; Easter Rhynd, etc. There was an old farm called Rhynd between Ferryport on the Tay and St. Andrews. Then I talked about the Fingask farm in Rhynd, which went back many hundred years. This is not to be confused with the Rhynd Castle across the Tay in Rait. And there is the town Abernethy near Newburgh. Many years ago a part of it was was in Fife, but it is all in Perthshire now, but if you look hard, there is an Abernethy in the Inverness / Banff region in northern Scotland. One of the greatest things that caused confusion was many places that took on names from prominent land owners and when they died or moved the name might have changed, but often quietly remained as a token name known by those living there years later. Thus research can be maddening unless you do your old history homework first. Don't you just love genealogy;;;;; it is more than just names, dates and places on paper or a tombstone. I know this because our Skinners suckered me into this trap once or twice during my research. Note: Did you know that the Elcho woods was a hiding place for William Wallace? He hid near his uncle's estate while picking on the English in Perth several times? -- Kind Regards, John H. Beach Yonkers, NY. john_h_beach@compuserve.com Note: the "_" before and after the initial "h" is an underscore character, not a dash or space.

_http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/place_page.jsp?p_id=16702_ (http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/place_page.jsp?p_id=16702) , map with grange of elcho listed. sorry i couldn't find photo, but if you look long and hard enough, you'll keep learning and loving life! That's what family history has done for me. A friend around every corner, including ALL of you!! I got to write all 500 Powries on facebook, and offer them 7-9 generations for free, about one in 5 answered! I make people happy and this keeps me happy! The more you search, you find your ancestors lived life just like us.... Love to all, Mary In a message dated 11/4/2010 3:35:10 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, b-g.anderson@sympatico.ca writes: This looks really interesting. It just might be time to spend some money. Brenda Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: <BRUINSWOOD@aol.com> To: <perthshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Grange Nunnery > > > could this be it? reprint is $5, very reasonable....on add-all, shipping > is $15. All-all has new and used books, I often search by parish name or > are > such as Carse of Gowrie, by a trade name or surname. I've had it return > books with my surname Powrie, but it's usually Powrie castles, which we > never > owned. > > mary in oregon (i'm always reading books) > > James Ballingal > > The Rhynd and Elcho: A Parish History > [_search for this title_ > (/advancedSearch.do?title=The+Rhynd+and+Elcho:&author=James+Ballingal) ] > > Pranava Books 2009 > 111 pages New. 2009. Reprinted from 1905 edition. PRANAVA BOOKS edition. > This is a quality reprint of an old book of historical value. This is an > exact/strict reproduction of text, no changes has been made in respect to > the > original. A lot of effort has been made to check and improve each > page/scan > manually for its quality of text and illustrations (if any, are in b/w). > This is not a retyped or an ocr'd book. Index, contents, etc, if any in > the > original book, are included. The title of the book, on the cover, is in > gold > lettering. New > > > > When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except > the portion to which you are replying. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 5592 (20101104) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5592 (20101104) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except the portion to which you are replying. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Brenda, I bought one, but one branch of my family is from Rhynd, Ferryfield. Can't find a photo of the parish church. It was converted to housing. Kinfauns was boarded up, so I found one at RCAHMS, Kinnoul was swallowed up by Perth. Found a picture of it while looking at one of my fav poets, William Soutar! _http://www.williamsoutar.com/poems/kirk.html_ (http://www.williamsoutar.com/poems/kirk.html) I play Stony Face when I get home sick! Powries lived at Orchard Nuek, and fished off Kinfauns, and behind Elcho Castle. That branch made enough to buy two farms.... big step up for poor fish mongers. Mary In a message dated 11/4/2010 3:35:10 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, b-g.anderson@sympatico.ca writes: This looks really interesting. It just might be time to spend some money. Brenda Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: <BRUINSWOOD@aol.com> To: <perthshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Grange Nunnery > > > could this be it? reprint is $5, very reasonable....on add-all, shipping > is $15. All-all has new and used books, I often search by parish name or > are > such as Carse of Gowrie, by a trade name or surname. I've had it return > books with my surname Powrie, but it's usually Powrie castles, which we > never > owned. > > mary in oregon (i'm always reading books) > > James Ballingal > > The Rhynd and Elcho: A Parish History > [_search for this title_ > (/advancedSearch.do?title=The+Rhynd+and+Elcho:&author=James+Ballingal) ] > > Pranava Books 2009 > 111 pages New. 2009. Reprinted from 1905 edition. PRANAVA BOOKS edition. > This is a quality reprint of an old book of historical value. This is an > exact/strict reproduction of text, no changes has been made in respect to > the > original. A lot of effort has been made to check and improve each > page/scan > manually for its quality of text and illustrations (if any, are in b/w). > This is not a retyped or an ocr'd book. Index, contents, etc, if any in > the > original book, are included. The title of the book, on the cover, is in > gold > lettering. New > > > > When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except > the portion to which you are replying. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 5592 (20101104) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5592 (20101104) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except the portion to which you are replying. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

absolutely, interlibrary loans are very nice! I give my books to others, except my reference books gazeteer dated 1860 Scot Dictionary 1880 Black's Scottish surnames and Scottish forenames both new anyone suggest other "must have books" mary in oregon the books on weavers, masons (trade), merchant seamen In a message dated 11/4/2010 4:23:34 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, weblogz@hotmail.com writes: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=wXVnAAAAMAAJ&q=grange+nunnery+perthshire &dq=grange+nunnery+perthshire&hl=en&ei=hz7TTP3lNsTXcabh-IgM&sa=X&oi=book_res ult&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAQ This may help but suggest check with your library to see if you can borrow any books before you buy Jenny - see Scottish Pages at http://howdiie.com > From: b-g.anderson@sympatico.ca > To: perthshire@rootsweb.com > Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 18:32:04 -0400 > Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Grange Nunnery > > This looks really interesting. It just might be time to spend some money. > > Brenda > Canada > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <BRUINSWOOD@aol.com> > To: <perthshire@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 6:18 PM > Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Grange Nunnery > > > > > > > > could this be it? reprint is $5, very reasonable....on add-all, shipping > > is $15. All-all has new and used books, I often search by parish name or > > are > > such as Carse of Gowrie, by a trade name or surname. I've had it return > > books with my surname Powrie, but it's usually Powrie castles, which we > > never > > owned. > > > > mary in oregon (i'm always reading books) > > > > James Ballingal > > > > The Rhynd and Elcho: A Parish History > > [_search for this title_ > > (/advancedSearch.do?title=The+Rhynd+and+Elcho:&author=James+Ballingal) ] > > > > Pranava Books 2009 > > 111 pages New. 2009. Reprinted from 1905 edition. PRANAVA BOOKS edition. > > This is a quality reprint of an old book of historical value. This is an > > exact/strict reproduction of text, no changes has been made in respect to > > the > > original. A lot of effort has been made to check and improve each > > page/scan > > manually for its quality of text and illustrations (if any, are in b/w). > > This is not a retyped or an ocr'd book. Index, contents, etc, if any in > > the > > original book, are included. The title of the book, on the cover, is in > > gold > > lettering. New > > > > > > > > When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except > > the portion to which you are replying. > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > > signature database 5592 (20101104) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5592 (20101104) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except the portion to which you are replying. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except the portion to which you are replying. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This looks really interesting. It just might be time to spend some money. Brenda Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: <BRUINSWOOD@aol.com> To: <perthshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Grange Nunnery > > > could this be it? reprint is $5, very reasonable....on add-all, shipping > is $15. All-all has new and used books, I often search by parish name or > are > such as Carse of Gowrie, by a trade name or surname. I've had it return > books with my surname Powrie, but it's usually Powrie castles, which we > never > owned. > > mary in oregon (i'm always reading books) > > James Ballingal > > The Rhynd and Elcho: A Parish History > [_search for this title_ > (/advancedSearch.do?title=The+Rhynd+and+Elcho:&author=James+Ballingal) ] > > Pranava Books 2009 > 111 pages New. 2009. Reprinted from 1905 edition. PRANAVA BOOKS edition. > This is a quality reprint of an old book of historical value. This is an > exact/strict reproduction of text, no changes has been made in respect to > the > original. A lot of effort has been made to check and improve each > page/scan > manually for its quality of text and illustrations (if any, are in b/w). > This is not a retyped or an ocr'd book. Index, contents, etc, if any in > the > original book, are included. The title of the book, on the cover, is in > gold > lettering. New > > > > When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except > the portion to which you are replying. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 5592 (20101104) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5592 (20101104) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

could this be it? reprint is $5, very reasonable....on add-all, shipping is $15. All-all has new and used books, I often search by parish name or are such as Carse of Gowrie, by a trade name or surname. I've had it return books with my surname Powrie, but it's usually Powrie castles, which we never owned. mary in oregon (i'm always reading books) James Ballingal The Rhynd and Elcho: A Parish History [_search for this title_ (/advancedSearch.do?title=The+Rhynd+and+Elcho:&author=James+Ballingal) ] Pranava Books 2009 111 pages New. 2009. Reprinted from 1905 edition. PRANAVA BOOKS edition. This is a quality reprint of an old book of historical value. This is an exact/strict reproduction of text, no changes has been made in respect to the original. A lot of effort has been made to check and improve each page/scan manually for its quality of text and illustrations (if any, are in b/w). This is not a retyped or an ocr'd book. Index, contents, etc, if any in the original book, are included. The title of the book, on the cover, is in gold lettering. New

Hi, Yes, can add that there was a Nunnery at the Elcho Castle location way back in time. While I stayed at the Fingask Farm B&B, Sandy Stirrat was so kind to let me read a Rhynd history book that reviewed this Nunnery. I don't remember this book's name, but it was an old book and possibly a copy is in the local library in Perth. It could be this book also held at the RCAHMS- Ballingal, J (1905) "The Rhynd and Elcho: a parish history", Edinburgh. Held at RCAHMS: D.13.22.RH RCAHMS, (Royal Commission on the Ancient and Historical Monuments of Scotland) John Sinclair House 16 Bernard Terrace Edinburgh EH8 9NX Telephone: +44 (0)131 662 1456 Email: info@rcahms.gov.uk -- Kind Regards, John H. Beach Yonkers, NY. john_h_beach@compuserve.com Note: the "_" before and after the initial "h" is an underscore character, not a dash or space.

I wonder if the "grange" part refers to a monastic grange? There was a nunndery at Elcho during the middle ages, see more at http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/search_item/index.php?service=RCAHMS&id=28389   Janet --- On Wed, 3/11/10, perthshire-request@rootsweb.com <perthshire-request@rootsweb.com> wrote: From: perthshire-request@rootsweb.com <perthshire-request@rootsweb.com> Subject: PERTHSHIRE Digest, Vol 5, Issue 136 To: perthshire@rootsweb.com Date: Wednesday, 3 November, 2010, 7:00 Today's Topics:    1. Re: Grange of Elcho and Grange Cottage, Rhynd       (Brenda & Gord Anderson) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 16:21:27 -0400 From: Brenda & Gord Anderson <b-g.anderson@sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Grange of Elcho and Grange Cottage, Rhynd To: <jmoon@talktalk.net>, <perthshire@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP73902D9EB966A32424160CB9490@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";     reply-type=original A special thank you to all who responded about the Grange of Elcho and Grange Cottage.  I will certainly follow up on all your suggestions.  I feel like I know the area a little better. Brenda Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Moon" <jmoon@talktalk.net> To: <perthshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 10:20 AM Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Grange of Elcho and Grange Cottage, Rhynd >A grange is a country house with farm buildings. > > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Brenda & Gord > Anderson > Sent: 01 November 2010 13:03 > To: Perth Mailing List > Subject: [PERTHSHIRE] Grange of Elcho and Grange Cottage, Rhynd > > > I am researching my McPherson family from the Rhynd area and have found > both > these addresses on the Census for them.  I am trying to figure out what > the > Grange part means.  I can find Elcho Castle, but where would the grange be > in location to the castle.  Does it mean a house, a farmshouse, and small > group of cottages.  I am assuming that the Grange cottage would just be a > cottage, but what would it be connected to - a farm, or just in the town. > > He was an agricultural labourer on both Census.  Living in Canada, > sometimes > it's hard to get a sense of what these things are.  I have googled them > both > but to no avail. > > Brenda > Canada > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5581 (20101101) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except > the > portion to which you are replying. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except > the portion to which you are replying. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 5582 (20101101) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5586 (20101102) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------------------------------ To contact the PERTHSHIRE list administrator, send an email to PERTHSHIRE-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the PERTHSHIRE mailing list, send an email to PERTHSHIRE@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of PERTHSHIRE Digest, Vol 5, Issue 136 ******************************************

A special thank you to all who responded about the Grange of Elcho and Grange Cottage. I will certainly follow up on all your suggestions. I feel like I know the area a little better. Brenda Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Moon" <jmoon@talktalk.net> To: <perthshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 10:20 AM Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Grange of Elcho and Grange Cottage, Rhynd >A grange is a country house with farm buildings. > > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Brenda & Gord > Anderson > Sent: 01 November 2010 13:03 > To: Perth Mailing List > Subject: [PERTHSHIRE] Grange of Elcho and Grange Cottage, Rhynd > > > I am researching my McPherson family from the Rhynd area and have found > both > these addresses on the Census for them. I am trying to figure out what > the > Grange part means. I can find Elcho Castle, but where would the grange be > in location to the castle. Does it mean a house, a farmshouse, and small > group of cottages. I am assuming that the Grange cottage would just be a > cottage, but what would it be connected to - a farm, or just in the town. > > He was an agricultural labourer on both Census. Living in Canada, > sometimes > it's hard to get a sense of what these things are. I have googled them > both > but to no avail. > > Brenda > Canada > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5581 (20101101) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except > the > portion to which you are replying. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except > the portion to which you are replying. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 5582 (20101101) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5586 (20101102) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Hi Brenda I found this site http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/search/?current_set=1&p_name=rhynd&p_type=PARISH&cache_name=111parishrhynd1211perthshire&p_county=perthshire&per_page=50&id%5B%5D=1211&per_page=100&p_filter=&new_p_filter= an also this may be of interest http://howdiie.com see Scottish pages Jenny > From: b-g.anderson@sympatico.ca > To: perthshire@rootsweb.com > Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 22:37:51 -0400 > Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Grange of Elcho and Grange Cottage, Rhynd > > Hi Mary: > > This is great information. My brain is not functioning at this time, but I > will certainly spend time with it tomorrow evening. Thank you for sending > all this information. I will be back in touch tomorrow. > > Brenda > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <BRUINSWOOD@aol.com> > To: <perthshire@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 9:52 PM > Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Grange of Elcho and Grange Cottage, Rhynd > > > > found my scots dictionary. grange is a barb=n or granery, the granery of a > > religious house. gra > > > > > > In a message dated 11/1/2010 6:07:05 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > > BRUINSWOOD@aol.com writes: > > > > Brenda, > > > > I have some new photos of Rhynd, pronounced rind not rynd.... my kids > > love > > > > elcho castle, as it's empty, and great for hide and seek. My family lived > > next door and kept the castle keys. I'll check SCRAN for Grande cottage > > or > > farm on SCRAN, which has lots of old photos, also look at RCAHMS (royal > > commission on ancient and historical monuments of Scotland, which has > > old > > photos and text from books, drawings, and photos of places now gone or > > still > > available. I search online as many places are now B and B. If you find > > one > > close, you can write the owners, or church folks who often help out with > > a > > villages history, or taking a photo. I have a professional who drives to > > locations for me. Multimap and UK streetmap, both Internet mapping > > programs > > which you can zoom in to see farm names. > > > > I have an old repro map (Ordnance map) around 1850, which are only a > > couple > > pounds and show farm names. RHYND church has been converted to housing, so > > no hope there but St. Madoes, and Glencarse might help. St. Madoes is > > pronounced Semmidoes, as one word. Locals tease me about my accent, and > > told me > > how to pronounce. Scots are very picky, and consider it an insult if > > you > > say names incorrectly. But they are very generous helping with history, > > they are very proud of their history. > > > > I'll write back if I find something. I have subscriptions to SCRAN, > > deceased online and ancestry. You can search SCRAN by village, surname, > > trade or > > subject without a subscription, but you won't see the text, and place > > who > > has the original, and will see only thumbnails. It connects museums and > > archives, for scottish school teachers, so the photos are priceless and a > > great > > cause. > > > > The two photo books on the Carse of Gowrie, include many villages, but > > not > > > > Rhynd. There are no doubt old photos, you just need to find them. > > Wellgate > > > > Library (central branch in Dundee public library) which might have some, > > and they'll do research for a reasonable fee. below is a great man in > > their > > history dept. > > > > ain Flett > > _iain.flett@dundeecity.gov.uk_ (mailto:iain.flett@dundeecity.gov.uk) > > > > hope some of this helps, > > > > Mary in Oregon > > > > > > In a message dated 11/1/2010 6:03:21 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > > b-g.anderson@sympatico.ca writes: > > > > I am researching my McPherson family from the Rhynd area and have found > > both these addresses on the Census for them. I am trying to figure out > > what > > the Grange part means. I can find Elcho Castle, but where would the > > grange > > be in location to the castle. Does it mean a house, a farmhouse, and > > small group of cottages. I am assuming that the Grange cottage would > > just be > > a cottage, but what would it be connected to - a farm, or just in the > > town. > > > > He was an agricultural labourer on both Census. Living in Canada, > > sometimes it's hard to get a sense of what these things are. I have > > googled them > > both but to no avail. > > > > Brenda > > Canada > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > > signature database 5581 (20101101) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except > > the portion to which you are replying. > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject > > and the body of the message > > > > When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except > > the portion to which you are replying. > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject > > and the body of the message > > > > When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except > > the portion to which you are replying. > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > > signature database 5583 (20101101) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5583 (20101101) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except the portion to which you are replying. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I posted a query to Ancestry message board, surname Haggart in March 2008. 2 James Haggart b: 25 Sep 1841 in Longforgan, Perthshire ............ +Marjory Mackie b: 1840 in Longforgan, Perthshire, Scotland m: 11 Apr 1862 in Liff, Benvie & Invergowrie ................... 3 Peter Haggart b: 25 Jun 1862 in Fowlis Easter, Perthshire ................... 3 John Haggart b: 20 Sep 1866 in Fowlis Easter, Perthshire The 1871 Census finds James Haggart at Denhead of Fowlis, Fowlis Easter (Scotland) with family, labourer age 29. They cannot be found in the 1881 Census anywhere in Scotland, England or Wales. If they migrated where did they go??? (Not found in the 1881 Canada census. Not found in the 1880 USA census) A reply was posted on 30 Sep 2010 by a Haggart descendant (in Australia) of Peter Haggart, brother of James. email contact was established and family data exchanged including an alert to a previous posting http://www.cousinconnect.com/ Posted 17 Apr 2003 I am looking for any relations of Peter Haggart from Dundee, Scotland (his parents were James and Marjorie May Haggart nee Mackie). He married Elizabeth Robb from Wanganui, New Zealand. James Haggart and Marjory Mackie via BMD index New Zealand https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Home/ Deaths?? 1916/9826 Haggart James 75Y 1923/5061 Haggart Marjorie 83Y 1939/21907 Haggart Peter 78Y 1942/21138 Haggart John 75Y Marriages?? 1895/1479 Elizabeth Robb Peter Haggart 1898/4476 Edith Grace Dixon John Haggart Death?? 1955/21291 Haggart Edith Grace 90Y Births Number name Mother Father 1899/10103 Haggart Marjorie Grace Edith Grace John 1906/1965 Haggart Cecelia Maude Edith Grace John Death?? 1917/8169 Haggart Elizabeth 47Y Births Number name Mother Father 1898/7894 Haggart James Elizabeth Peter 1910/685 Haggart Peter Anderson Elizabeth Peter Marriage??? 1926/5765 Evelyn Alice Moffitt James Haggart I paid online for a photocopy of the James Haggart death entry which included this :- Local number 182 Deceased When and where died 28th September 1916. Westmere Wangarui Name and surname James Haggart Rank or profession or occupation Farmer (Retired) Sex and Age M 75 years Details of Death Cause of death Chronic endocardites & myocarditis Duration of last illness ------- Medical attendant by whom certified and when he last saw the deceased J T W Wilkin 28th September 1916 Parents Name and Surname of father ------------- Haggart Name and if known maiden surname of mother ------------- Haggart Kerr (should be Moncur !!) Rank or profession or occupation of father Farmer Burial Details When and where buried 30th September 1916, Aramoho Cemetery Name and Religion of Minister or name of witness of burial C A Sims Methodist Birth Details Where born Scotland How long in New Zealand About 46 years (??, he was in Scotland for the 1871 census) Marriage Details Where married Scotland At what age married About 20 Children If living issue, the number, age and sex M 2 ,54 50 years F ---- To whom married Marjorie Mackie age 76 Informant Signature, description and residence of informant James Hugill Undertaker Wanganui If the entry is a correction of a former entry signature of witnesses Who witnessed the correction. Registrar Signature of registrar Charles E Hylton Date of registration 4th October 1916 So connection confirmed Ian Mackie Melbourne, where good wetting rain fell on Sunday and more expected today, Melbourne Cup Day.

Hi, One of our Skinners was born in Easter Rhynd in 1831. There were about 8 working farms there then and almost as many now, but with a whole lot less employment. We stayed at the Fingask Farm B&B in Rhynd in 1998, which is just below the Elcho Castle and old Elcho Farm. I took photos of the Elcho Castle and some are at: http://www.darkisle.com/e/elcho/elcho.html You might want to contact the owners at the Fingast, Sandy [Aexander] and Elizabeth Stirrat. They might be able to help you with questions about granges in the area. agstirrat@btconnect.com Mrs Elizabeth Stirrat, Fingask Farm, Rhynd, Perth, Perthshire PH2 8QF 01738 812220 -- Kind Regards, John H. Beach Yonkers, NY. john_h_beach@compuserve.com Note: the "_" before and after the initial "h" is an underscore character, not a dash or space.

Hi Mary: This is great information. My brain is not functioning at this time, but I will certainly spend time with it tomorrow evening. Thank you for sending all this information. I will be back in touch tomorrow. Brenda ----- Original Message ----- From: <BRUINSWOOD@aol.com> To: <perthshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Grange of Elcho and Grange Cottage, Rhynd > found my scots dictionary. grange is a barb=n or granery, the granery of a > religious house. gra > > > In a message dated 11/1/2010 6:07:05 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > BRUINSWOOD@aol.com writes: > > Brenda, > > I have some new photos of Rhynd, pronounced rind not rynd.... my kids > love > > elcho castle, as it's empty, and great for hide and seek. My family lived > next door and kept the castle keys. I'll check SCRAN for Grande cottage > or > farm on SCRAN, which has lots of old photos, also look at RCAHMS (royal > commission on ancient and historical monuments of Scotland, which has > old > photos and text from books, drawings, and photos of places now gone or > still > available. I search online as many places are now B and B. If you find > one > close, you can write the owners, or church folks who often help out with > a > villages history, or taking a photo. I have a professional who drives to > locations for me. Multimap and UK streetmap, both Internet mapping > programs > which you can zoom in to see farm names. > > I have an old repro map (Ordnance map) around 1850, which are only a > couple > pounds and show farm names. RHYND church has been converted to housing, so > no hope there but St. Madoes, and Glencarse might help. St. Madoes is > pronounced Semmidoes, as one word. Locals tease me about my accent, and > told me > how to pronounce. Scots are very picky, and consider it an insult if > you > say names incorrectly. But they are very generous helping with history, > they are very proud of their history. > > I'll write back if I find something. I have subscriptions to SCRAN, > deceased online and ancestry. You can search SCRAN by village, surname, > trade or > subject without a subscription, but you won't see the text, and place > who > has the original, and will see only thumbnails. It connects museums and > archives, for scottish school teachers, so the photos are priceless and a > great > cause. > > The two photo books on the Carse of Gowrie, include many villages, but > not > > Rhynd. There are no doubt old photos, you just need to find them. > Wellgate > > Library (central branch in Dundee public library) which might have some, > and they'll do research for a reasonable fee. below is a great man in > their > history dept. > > ain Flett > _iain.flett@dundeecity.gov.uk_ (mailto:iain.flett@dundeecity.gov.uk) > > hope some of this helps, > > Mary in Oregon > > > In a message dated 11/1/2010 6:03:21 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > b-g.anderson@sympatico.ca writes: > > I am researching my McPherson family from the Rhynd area and have found > both these addresses on the Census for them. I am trying to figure out > what > the Grange part means. I can find Elcho Castle, but where would the > grange > be in location to the castle. Does it mean a house, a farmhouse, and > small group of cottages. I am assuming that the Grange cottage would > just be > a cottage, but what would it be connected to - a farm, or just in the > town. > > He was an agricultural labourer on both Census. Living in Canada, > sometimes it's hard to get a sense of what these things are. I have > googled them > both but to no avail. > > Brenda > Canada > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 5581 (20101101) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except > the portion to which you are replying. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except > the portion to which you are replying. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except > the portion to which you are replying. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 5583 (20101101) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5583 (20101101) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

found my scots dictionary. grange is a barb=n or granery, the granery of a religious house. gra In a message dated 11/1/2010 6:07:05 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, BRUINSWOOD@aol.com writes: Brenda, I have some new photos of Rhynd, pronounced rind not rynd.... my kids love elcho castle, as it's empty, and great for hide and seek. My family lived next door and kept the castle keys. I'll check SCRAN for Grande cottage or farm on SCRAN, which has lots of old photos, also look at RCAHMS (royal commission on ancient and historical monuments of Scotland, which has old photos and text from books, drawings, and photos of places now gone or still available. I search online as many places are now B and B. If you find one close, you can write the owners, or church folks who often help out with a villages history, or taking a photo. I have a professional who drives to locations for me. Multimap and UK streetmap, both Internet mapping programs which you can zoom in to see farm names. I have an old repro map (Ordnance map) around 1850, which are only a couple pounds and show farm names. RHYND church has been converted to housing, so no hope there but St. Madoes, and Glencarse might help. St. Madoes is pronounced Semmidoes, as one word. Locals tease me about my accent, and told me how to pronounce. Scots are very picky, and consider it an insult if you say names incorrectly. But they are very generous helping with history, they are very proud of their history. I'll write back if I find something. I have subscriptions to SCRAN, deceased online and ancestry. You can search SCRAN by village, surname, trade or subject without a subscription, but you won't see the text, and place who has the original, and will see only thumbnails. It connects museums and archives, for scottish school teachers, so the photos are priceless and a great cause. The two photo books on the Carse of Gowrie, include many villages, but not Rhynd. There are no doubt old photos, you just need to find them. Wellgate Library (central branch in Dundee public library) which might have some, and they'll do research for a reasonable fee. below is a great man in their history dept. ain Flett _iain.flett@dundeecity.gov.uk_ (mailto:iain.flett@dundeecity.gov.uk) hope some of this helps, Mary in Oregon In a message dated 11/1/2010 6:03:21 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, b-g.anderson@sympatico.ca writes: I am researching my McPherson family from the Rhynd area and have found both these addresses on the Census for them. I am trying to figure out what the Grange part means. I can find Elcho Castle, but where would the grange be in location to the castle. Does it mean a house, a farmhouse, and small group of cottages. I am assuming that the Grange cottage would just be a cottage, but what would it be connected to - a farm, or just in the town. He was an agricultural labourer on both Census. Living in Canada, sometimes it's hard to get a sense of what these things are. I have googled them both but to no avail. Brenda Canada __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5581 (20101101) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except the portion to which you are replying. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except the portion to which you are replying. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

, _b-g.anderson@sympatichttp://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/search/?action=do_search&p_type=PARISH&p_name=rhynd&id=1211&p_county=perthshire_ (mailto:b-g.anderson@sympatichttp://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/search/?action=do_search&p _type=PARISH&p_name=rhynd&id=1211&p_county=perthshire) info and some pics about RHYND. there is mention of grange of elcho cottages. it will help to learn what each word means. It likely would be a farm on former castle estates. Outdweller is a farmer who works a farm, but lives elsewhere in the village. Indweller, fuar or cotter off census, would help to understand the kind of farm. Indweller or inmate means they lived where they worked, worked where they lived. _http://www.britannia.org/scotland/scotsdictionary/g.shtml_ (http://www.britannia.org/scotland/scotsdictionary/g.shtml) broad scot dictionary. i own both a gaelic and scot dictionaries, but can't lay my hands on them at the moment. but you can find both online. Gaelic is very descriptive. Aber means confluence of two rivers, so Aberdeen means where D and deen rivers meet. Everything with kill, like killin (kill is a monks cell) describe a village that grew up around a monastery. Minks lived in little bee hive shaped huts, not in a big building, like you's believe. n. 1. Grange Chiefly Northeastern U.S. 1. An association of farmers founded in the United States in 1867. 2. One of the branch lodges of this association. 2. Chiefly British. A farm, especially the residence and outbuildings of a gentleman farmer. 3. Archaic. A granary. you could have a cottage near the grainery for Elcho Castle, but the Scots on the list will likely answer and teach us both!! We have at least two native Gaelic speakers, Ryk and Chris on the list for Angus and Perthshire. I have the monument inscription books, if you wish a look-up. the list objects, so I offer look-ups but not on the list. They are copyrighted. Mary

Brenda, I have some new photos of Rhynd, pronounced rind not rynd.... my kids love elcho castle, as it's empty, and great for hide and seek. My family lived next door and kept the castle keys. I'll check SCRAN for Grande cottage or farm on SCRAN, which has lots of old photos, also look at RCAHMS (royal commission on ancient and historical monuments of Scotland, which has old photos and text from books, drawings, and photos of places now gone or still available. I search online as many places are now B and B. If you find one close, you can write the owners, or church folks who often help out with a villages history, or taking a photo. I have a professional who drives to locations for me. Multimap and UK streetmap, both Internet mapping programs which you can zoom in to see farm names. I have an old repro map (Ordnance map) around 1850, which are only a couple pounds and show farm names. RHYND church has been converted to housing, so no hope there but St. Madoes, and Glencarse might help. St. Madoes is pronounced Semmidoes, as one word. Locals tease me about my accent, and told me how to pronounce. Scots are very picky, and consider it an insult if you say names incorrectly. But they are very generous helping with history, they are very proud of their history. I'll write back if I find something. I have subscriptions to SCRAN, deceased online and ancestry. You can search SCRAN by village, surname, trade or subject without a subscription, but you won't see the text, and place who has the original, and will see only thumbnails. It connects museums and archives, for scottish school teachers, so the photos are priceless and a great cause. The two photo books on the Carse of Gowrie, include many villages, but not Rhynd. There are no doubt old photos, you just need to find them. Wellgate Library (central branch in Dundee public library) which might have some, and they'll do research for a reasonable fee. below is a great man in their history dept. ain Flett _iain.flett@dundeecity.gov.uk_ (mailto:iain.flett@dundeecity.gov.uk) hope some of this helps, Mary in Oregon In a message dated 11/1/2010 6:03:21 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, b-g.anderson@sympatico.ca writes: I am researching my McPherson family from the Rhynd area and have found both these addresses on the Census for them. I am trying to figure out what the Grange part means. I can find Elcho Castle, but where would the grange be in location to the castle. Does it mean a house, a farmhouse, and small group of cottages. I am assuming that the Grange cottage would just be a cottage, but what would it be connected to - a farm, or just in the town. He was an agricultural labourer on both Census. Living in Canada, sometimes it's hard to get a sense of what these things are. I have googled them both but to no avail. Brenda Canada __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5581 (20101101) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except the portion to which you are replying. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

A grange is a country house with farm buildings. John -----Original Message----- From: perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Brenda & Gord Anderson Sent: 01 November 2010 13:03 To: Perth Mailing List Subject: [PERTHSHIRE] Grange of Elcho and Grange Cottage, Rhynd I am researching my McPherson family from the Rhynd area and have found both these addresses on the Census for them. I am trying to figure out what the Grange part means. I can find Elcho Castle, but where would the grange be in location to the castle. Does it mean a house, a farmshouse, and small group of cottages. I am assuming that the Grange cottage would just be a cottage, but what would it be connected to - a farm, or just in the town. He was an agricultural labourer on both Census. Living in Canada, sometimes it's hard to get a sense of what these things are. I have googled them both but to no avail. Brenda Canada __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5581 (20101101) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except the portion to which you are replying. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This link may help folk with family who lived and worked in the British Colonies. There is film footage covering 1895-1997, some of which is available directly on the site. http://tinyurl.com/3y6k6an regards Pat Researching : ADAMSON, KINNEAR, STIRLING in Angus; KEY, FORD in Coastal Angus & Dundee; CONWAY, REILLY, BRADY in Ireland, Ayrshire & Dundee; FISHER in Ayrshire; NIC(H)OLSON in Speyside, Aberdeen & Dundee; MILLER in Dundee; DICKSON in Ireland & Dundee; PATERSON, FINDLAY, ORKNEY in Montrose & Dundee; JOHNSTON in Dundee