Hi Tom The IGI shows 3 children born in Scotland for James SNADON or SNEDDON and Helen TODD. They were: Drummond SNADON (female) born Clackmannan, 14 November 1851 (extracted record) Robert SNADON born Clackmannan, 25 September 1853 (extracted record) Helen SNEDDON born Bathgate, West Lothian, 20 March 1855 (extracted record). The birth certificate for daughter Helen on Scotlands People, records that Helen Snadon/Sneddon m.s Todd was 24 in 1855 and was born in Ayrshire (sorry I can't decipher the town or village where she was born). I think that the 1841 Census recorded Helen as being born in Perthshire. It could be that the clerk who entered the details on the birth register heard "Perthshire" as "Ayrshire"; or the 1841 Census entry could have been wrong. According to the certificate, she and James married in the parish of Fossoway in Perth and Kinross in 1849. James SNADON/SNEDDON was born in Kennet, Clackmannanshire and was a Coal and Ironstone Miner. All 3 children (including Helen junior) were "living" when the birth was registered by James Snadon on 14 April 1855. Rhoda ----- Original Message ----- From: <tomwdcraftr@juno.com> To: <perthshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Ellen nee MacGregor and/or Drummond born inScotlanda bout 1800 > Thanks Peter for your messages!! > The oldest Daughter Janet Todd married William Murray. I don't know where > I got the info or if it's accurate, but I show they married Nov 8, 1845 in > Glencairn, Dumfrieshire, Scotland. It seems they were on the 1851 Scotland > census, and on the 1861 Ontario, Canada census. I show they had a Son in > Scotland in 1852, and a Son in Ontario in 1855, which narrows the date > they would have immigrated. > The Daughter Ellen Todd married James Snaden/Snadden probably in Scotland. > They had a Daughter in Scotland in March 1855 and a Daughter in Ontario in > 1857. >

Just copying my correspondence with Tom to the List (with his permission). May come in useful for someone some day. Oldest message at foot of page. Rhoda ----- Original Message ----- From: CandROverson To: tomwdcraftr@juno.com Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 11:16 AM Subject: Re: Ellen nee MacGregor and/or Drummond born Scotland about 1800 Hi Tom Sorry you can't view the image. But here is what it says for JOHN: " Matthew TODD Hawker from Alnwick in Northumberland and Helen DRUMMOND his Wife had a Son born at Leadhills upon the 4th and baptized upon the 5th day of November 1836 by the Revd. W Hope before Witnesses. Named John." It is interesting that the Baptism followed a day after the Birth. It suggests the family were passing through Leadhills when Helen gave birth. The other three Baptisms on the entry page all took place some months after the Birth and were children of parents living in Leadhills. When ROBERT was Baptised two years earlier in the parish of Melrose, Roxburghshire, the family appeared to be resident in what is now Galashiels in Selkirkshire. That baptism says: "Robert Lawful son of Matthew TODD China Merchant Darlingshaugh & Helen DRUMMOND was born 10 July 1854 and baptd 21 July 1834." Googling 'Darlingshaugh' shows that it was on the outskirts of Galashiels. 'Ellen' is a variation of the name 'Helen'. It is a less formal use of the name. I have many Helens in my tree who became known as 'Ellen'. A bit like 'James' and 'Jim' etc. It is entirely possible that Helen could have been born in Edinburgh, or perhaps in a small town/village nearby. The only Helen Drummond born in the vicinity of Edinburgh appearing on the Birth/Baptism index on Scotlands People between 1795 and 1810 was one baptised or born in Cramond (now in Edinburgh) on 17 August 1804 to Thomas DRUMMOND and Helen ANDERSON. The fact that your Great Grandmother was named 'Anderson' suggests a link to a family surname and it is possible that this Helen ANDERSON was her grandmother. But it could just be a coincidence. Rhoda in London, UK ----- Original Message ----- From: tomwdcraftr@juno.com To: overson12@btinternet.com Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 4:28 AM Subject: RE: Ellen nee MacGregor and/or Drummond born Scotland about 1800 Hi Rhoda Oh, thank you so very much!! Unfortunately, I can't seem to get my photo program to bring it in too clear. I can make some out, but not all. Would it be possible to transcribe what the record says for John's birth? The Family knew her as, and I think even on her grave in Canada it shows "Ellen"? But, in Scotland I wonder if it would have always been "Helen"? I've also seen it as Helen some in Canada. Some of the handed down family history felt she was born in Edinburgh, so I don't know if that's possible? I have collected some records from England for Matthew, and it seems his Father had been a potter, but may have also been a hawker for the pottery. It seems that Matthew's parents had about 7 or eight children born in several different areas in Northumberland. Your kindness is greatly appreciated!! Tom McMillan Hello Tom This is in response to your message on the Perthshire List. I am attaching the image of John Todd's baptism entry in the Crawford and Leadhills (Lanarkshire) 1836 Parish Register (downloaded from the Scotlands People website). This records Matthew Todd as a hawker from the parish of Alnwick in Northumberland. This suggests that he was what we would call nowadays, a commercial traveller. Unfortunately it doesn't record Helen's place of birth, but according to the 1841 Census she was born outside Perthshire. Rhoda

Thanks Peter for your messages!! The oldest Daughter Janet Todd married William Murray. I don't know where I got the info or if it's accurate, but I show they married Nov 8, 1845 in Glencairn, Dumfrieshire, Scotland. It seems they were on the 1851 Scotland census, and on the 1861 Ontario, Canada census. I show they had a Son in Scotland in 1852, and a Son in Ontario in 1855, which narrows the date they would have immigrated. The Daughter Ellen Todd married James Snaden/Snadden probably in Scotland. They had a Daughter in Scotland in March 1855 and a Daughter in Ontario in 1857. If they all immigrated at the same time, it would seem it may have been after March of 1855. I had found one 1851 Scotland census I thought might have been Matthew and Ellen and some of the children. However, the name showed as "Mathan" for Matthew and he showed as 50, an Ellen showed as 51, a Daughter Ellen showed as 21, and a John at 14. They were listed with a larger group of people and there were other Todd names. It showed them as lodgers traveling Marsh? Not sure what that means? They were in Biggar, Lanarkshire on South Frunt Street. I think I'd seen another 1851 Scotland census for I think an Annie Todd about my Anderson's age who was a different name than the family she was with an showed as a "servant", but don't know if it could have been her?? The birth info for the one showed as Mathan I think would have been wrong for my Matthew, but hard to know who reported the information. On this the Ellen Todd showed born in 1800 in Airdrie, Lanarkshire. Hard to know if this could be my Ellen MacGregor/Drummond?? Oh there is an 1851/52 Canada census, but my understanding is that some of those records were destroyed or are missing. I never found one for Matthew and Ellen and family. Thanks to all so much for your kind help!!! Tom McMillan (Washougal, WA) Tom, I tutor in genealogy as well as do some professional research. The answers will be at Scotland's People, but because it's a pay site, you'll have to cover the cost and do the work yourself. But it's quite easy and inexpensive at about $2 per lookup. IGI has christenings for Robert & John in Roxborough and Lanark. One is an extracted, the other a user submission. The various locations suggest the family didn't stay in the one place for long, so any records for the other children may well be scattered.. I can't see them in 1851 census of Scotland or England which suggests they migrated before that date. I don't know if there is census of Canada around 1850. Otherwise, you might have to look for shipping records. I'd also look for possible marriages of the eldest daughters Janet and Ellen before leaving Scotland. That might help fix a date for migration. It would be helpful to see if their first child was born in Scotland or Canada. Peter in Sydney When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except the portion to which you are replying. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ____________________________________________________________ Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4d0a6f7431bf6823c9dst01vuc

Don't forget that Nellie and Nelly also work for Helen and Ellen. Sheila

Hi Tom All your surnames common to me around Fife/Perth/Clackmannan/Stirling check out my Scottish Pages of transcripts of births, marriages, deaths, sasines etc for these areas and more you could strike it lucky at http://howdiie.com Good Luck Jenny > From: tomwdcraftr@juno.com > Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 22:09:40 +0000 > To: PERTHSHIRE@rootsweb.com > Subject: [PERTHSHIRE] Ellen nee MacGregor and/or Drummond born in Scotland about 1800 > > Family oral history has handed down that one Great Great Grandmother was Ellen MacGregor/McGregor and that she descended from Rob Roy. However, for records I've found for her, public records in Canada have shown a maiden name of Ellen Drummond born 1800 in Scotland. A lot of times she does show up as "Helen" which seems to be common with the name Ellen. She married Mathew Todd who was from Northumberland County, England. > They are on the 1841 Scotland census with their 4 children: Janet, Ellen (shows as Helen); Robert, John, and my Great Grandmother Anderson. Ellen also shows as: Helen. At that time the address showed as: Gartmore No. 37; Port of Menteith, Perthshire, Scotland. It seems that the family may have moved about a bit. At the time Mathew/Matthew shows as a stoneware merchant. > Her first Son was named Robert MacGregor/McGregor Todd, and her second son was named John Drummond Todd. > The family immigrated to Fergus, Wellington, Ontario sometime between 1841 and 1861. Mathew, Ellen, Anderson, and John were on the 1861 census together. Ellen died there in 1863. The Daughter's Janet and Ellen had married, but were also in the Wellington County area. I'm not sure where Robert was, but I have found him in the United States after 1860. > I'm hoping to find the parents for Ellen, to see if I can take her line back further. I don't have a lot to go on, unfortunately. I haven't found any marriage record for she and Mathew which I thought could help. > Would appreciate any help or advice. > Thanks so much!! Tom McMillan (Wahougal, WA) > > ____________________________________________________________ > How to Stay Asleep > Cambridge Researchers have developed an all natural sleep aid just for you. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4d093cccdbf337d2575st02vuc > When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except the portion to which you are replying. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Tom, I might have to take it all back. The only entries on Scotland's People that I could see on a brief low cost search were the births of Robert Todd 1834 and & John Todd 1836. These are the same two that are on IGI. But there's nothing on the other three children Janet 1825, Ellen 1829 or Anderson 1839. With father Matthew Todd being a travelling hawker, there's no telling where they might be born. As I suggested before, it might be worthwhile finding marriages for Janet and Ellen and sssing if they had any children before leaving for Canada. Peter

Tom, I tutor in genealogy as well as do some professional research. The answers will be at Scotland's People, but because it's a pay site, you'll have to cover the cost and do the work yourself. But it's quite easy and inexpensive at about $2 per lookup. IGI has christenings for Robert & John in Roxborough and Lanark. One is an extracted, the other a user submission. The various locations suggest the family didn't stay in the one place for long, so any records for the other children may well be scattered.. I can't see them in 1851 census of Scotland or England which suggests they migrated before that date. I don't know if there is census of Canada around 1850. Otherwise, you might have to look for shipping records. I'd also look for possible marriages of the eldest daughters Janet and Ellen before leaving Scotland. That might help fix a date for migration. It would be helpful to see if their first child was born in Scotland or Canada. Peter in Sydney

Family oral history has handed down that one Great Great Grandmother was Ellen MacGregor/McGregor and that she descended from Rob Roy. However, for records I've found for her, public records in Canada have shown a maiden name of Ellen Drummond born 1800 in Scotland. A lot of times she does show up as "Helen" which seems to be common with the name Ellen. She married Mathew Todd who was from Northumberland County, England. They are on the 1841 Scotland census with their 4 children: Janet, Ellen (shows as Helen); Robert, John, and my Great Grandmother Anderson. Ellen also shows as: Helen. At that time the address showed as: Gartmore No. 37; Port of Menteith, Perthshire, Scotland. It seems that the family may have moved about a bit. At the time Mathew/Matthew shows as a stoneware merchant. Her first Son was named Robert MacGregor/McGregor Todd, and her second son was named John Drummond Todd. The family immigrated to Fergus, Wellington, Ontario sometime between 1841 and 1861. Mathew, Ellen, Anderson, and John were on the 1861 census together. Ellen died there in 1863. The Daughter's Janet and Ellen had married, but were also in the Wellington County area. I'm not sure where Robert was, but I have found him in the United States after 1860. I'm hoping to find the parents for Ellen, to see if I can take her line back further. I don't have a lot to go on, unfortunately. I haven't found any marriage record for she and Mathew which I thought could help. Would appreciate any help or advice. Thanks so much!! Tom McMillan (Wahougal, WA) ____________________________________________________________ How to Stay Asleep Cambridge Researchers have developed an all natural sleep aid just for you. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4d093cccdbf337d2575st02vuc

Hello, All, In the Perthshire Military Certifications 1802-1810, I have found a Peter Thomson, wife Isobel Pirie, Caputh parish with 2 children under 10 as of 1804. He was a member of the 4th Battalion 1st Brigade Royal Perthshire Volunteers. I am able to access record PE66 from the computer, but a note directs me to see also PE/25A which I cannot. This family may be my ggg grandparents as the number of children and timing are compatible, however my ggggrandmother was an Isabella Pirnie not Pirie. Would anyone be able to check PE/25A to see if that record might shed further light? Thanks, Barb in snowy Canada

This web archive contains hundreds of recordings of tales, songs etc from all over Scotland, in Gaelic, Doric, and Scots - many date back to the 1930s. http://www.tobarandualchais.co.uk/ See news item here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-11950440 Louise

Thanks Mary, A very informative find. I trust a reasonable timeframe was observed before re-interment. Peter

On Scotland's People, I found a death record from 1830. It was part of a whole page from a burials register. The column headings were Proprietor, Date, Name of Deceased, Age, Complaint, Space Occupied, Depth and Male or Female. I'm wondering at the significance of Proprietor, Space Occupied and Depth. Can someone explain the system for me? It looks like the proprietor bought a family plot and the whole family were buried there at different depths. Looking at the depths, they range from 4ft to 12 ft. Hopefully the first was buried the deepest, but it doesn't seem to be the case. Did they just dig through the earlier burials? There also appears to be a North grave and a South grave. Between them they seem to cover 20 burials over 25 years. Does this seem right? Peter in Sydney

I found this online at the site for Western cemetery, that I believe helps explain it... Mary in Oregon Thanks to Karen and other who help with my baker, Hugh McLaren and his wife Annie Powrie, who I found buried in a Port Elgin, Bruce county ontario. I have not found the Mi's yet, but the lousy Ontario census put's their births at between 1807 and 1825. Many of the people buried in Western cemetery illustrate these links. This area of Dundee was, and still is, a well-to-do area and there are the graves of provosts, businessmen and other prominent families in this cemetery. One interesting practice carried out by lair owners was that, when the lair or lairs became full – 3 adults was the usual for one grave – they had the grave cleansed. That is, it was dug out to a depth of about 8 feet. The old remains were then re-interred and covered with earth so that a depth of 6 feet was again available. This practice was also used in other cemeteries. These families very often had lairs in the strip of ground next to the walls and the gravestones were usually fixed to the wall. In a message dated 11/18/2010 5:15:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, peterbooth2@bigpond.com writes: On Scotland's People, I found a death record from 1830. It was part of a whole page from a burials register. The column headings were Proprietor, Date, Name of Deceased, Age, Complaint, Space Occupied, Depth and Male or Female. I'm wondering at the significance of Proprietor, Space Occupied and Depth. Can someone explain the system for me? It looks like the proprietor bought a family plot and the whole family were buried there at different depths. Looking at the depths, they range from 4ft to 12 ft. Hopefully the first was buried the deepest, but it doesn't seem to be the case. Did they just dig through the earlier burials? There also appears to be a North grave and a South grave. Between them they seem to cover 20 burials over 25 years. Does this seem right? Peter in Sydney When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except the portion to which you are replying. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I'm looking for Hugh MacLaren, who married Ann Pourie/Powrie in Perth 1840. He was a baker, and since it's a new profession for me. I am curious about how long the apprenticeship, and journeyman portion of his trade might have been. the family believes he was set up in trade, and carrying on a business, that included making a wedding cake for theking and queen. they married in 1840, and her father was a wright in Kettins. I believe this may have been weddings of local people, not wealthy or royals. but I am no expert, certainly about this trade. i'm trying to find information on bakers. any suggestions.my bibliography book on regiments and trades shows books on glasgow bakers. there is one on baker records for three centuries in st. andrews, fife. Am I right in assuming that the trade would not have been very different by location? Where might I find the guild records for Perth? I find it hard to believe a young man who was an apprentice or journeyman would have the resources to marry, much less have a thriving shop. Unhappily they left for Canada, not long after, as he does not appear on Scotland, in census records, but does show up on a 1871 census in Ontario. Those are notoriously bad for determining age, and date of immigration. I have my own great grandfather showing up at different ages on each one of them, and it says he immigrated in 1860, when I have pay sheets for him in the militia in 1837. I have his marriage in 1841, so the census is no help. Mary in Oregon Mary in Oregon In a message dated 11/10/2010 1:19:21 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, gc-gateway@rootsweb.com writes: This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: brandialou Surnames: Sievwright, Reid, Holmes, Sym, Quhytt, Gardner, Seaton Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/1947.1. 1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: This is the info I have on these names. I do not have source info (just copied basic info from my grandmother's papers.) So I am not 100% confident that the dates, etc. are entirely accurate. Archibald Sievwright b: May 24, 1769 in Aberdeenshire,Scotland d: Nov 6, 1847. married May 23, 1810 to Eleanor Holmes b:: April 12, 1786in Ireland. d: Aug 24, 1873 in Quebec, CA. Archibald's parents: George Sievwright b: March 1736 or 1737 in Monymusk,Aberdeenshire, Scotland. d: abt 1771 in Aberdeenshire. married Agnes Seaton in 1760. Agnes b: abt 1745 George's parents: A Sievwright b: Dec 20, 1698 d: abt 1755 married Elizabeth Reid b: Occt 6, 1701, d: April 20, 1787 A Sievwright's parents: David Sievwright b: 1665 in Brechin, Agnus, Scotland married Kathrin Sym in 1659 David's parents: Thomas Sievwright b: abt 1630 married Mary Gardner Thomas' parents: John Sievwright b: abt 1600, d: abt 1624 married Catharin Quhytt b: abt 1600 Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kX_3y3u5Uo_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kX_3y3u5Uo) one of you tube tributes to our veterans I like this one as almost all of the WWI records in the National Archive of Canada, were those of my great uncles and extended family. Many served in the Blackwatch Regiment 48, showing their pride of heritage, being first generation born Canadian Powries. Please remember to put your flags outside, pray for those still in harm's way, those recovering in various hospitals, and those who rest in peace, their battle over. For veterans and active duty,Have a proud Veteran's day! THANK YOU for your service and sacrifice in keeping us safe and free. Mary in Oregon

I have transcribed the Rental Book for Ochtertyre Estate for the period 31 August 1865 until 31 August 1866 .The Estate which belonged then to the Murrays of Ochtertyre lay to the west and east of the town of Crieff . The Rent Roll gives the names and addresses of the tenants of the time . Thanks to Ewan * for rescuing the ledger from the pending flames .Posterity is grateful ! Freely available on my web site _http://caledonianconnections.com_ (http://caledonianconnections.com/) . Col.

I have transcribed the Rental Book for Ochtertyre Estate for the period 31 August 1865 until 31 August 1866 .The Estate which belonged then to the Murrays of Ochtertyre lay to the west and east of the town of Crieff . The Rent Roll gives the names and addresses of the tenants of the time . Thanks to Ewan * for rescuing the ledger from the pending flames .Posterity is grateful ! Freely available on my web site _http://caledonianconnections.com_ (http://caledonianconnections.com/) . Col.

I cannot say "thank you" enough to Sherry for this link! Multipmaps used to be an excellent site for OS Maps until Bing (Microsoft) took over and ruined it! Can't access OS Maps through Bing unless you live in the UK. I've been trying to find another site that gives access to OS maps ever since. Thank you VERY much Sherry for finding this excellent site! Ryk Brown Stewarts of Balquhidder Research Group >I find this website helpful with place names although it certainly does not >cover everything. It also includes an aerial view. > Where's the Path - http://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepath.htm > Sherry

Terrific site!! New to me, and I have 18 branches, 7 originate in Errol. I put 3 of the 7 together, but seeing just how close the farms were where they lived is fascinating. It may end up as one big family. Ken Doig, who is doing his surname, just did the DNA of a major portions, coming up with surprise links between Canadian and New Zealand Doggs/Doigs. Has anyone used a particular lab they are happy with. Ancestry.com offers it, but the price is over $100. I'd like to do the same with members of the Errol branch members. DNA will replace us, but for now it's just another tool. Sorry about my pallaver. Thanks again for the great website. Mary In a message dated 11/5/2010 5:12:36 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, wiccanpt2@netzero.net writes: I find this website helpful with place names although it certainly does not cover everything. It also includes an aerial view. Where's the Path - http://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepath.htm HTH, Sherry When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except the portion to which you are replying. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I find this website helpful with place names although it certainly does not cover everything. It also includes an aerial view. Where's the Path - http://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepath.htm HTH, Sherry