We are always amused in New Zealand when BBC refers to Andy Murrays' tennis results. He is a Brit when he is winning, but a Scot when losing. Interests: Methven and nearby - KINLOCH and GORRIE, CUMMING, who married a STEVEN ( or STIVEN). All pre 1870. Richard, Auckland. 2011 here, and a sunny day!

I noticed that too! It always amuses me. He is even referred to by some commentators as "English". Sunny day in Auckland? Broiling and stewing day in Sydney! Kerri -----Original Message----- From: perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of RPOOLE Sent: Saturday, 1 January 2011 8:23 AM To: perthshire@rootsweb.com Subject: [PERTHSHIRE] Regarding England versus Scotland We are always amused in New Zealand when BBC refers to Andy Murrays' tennis results. He is a Brit when he is winning, but a Scot when losing. Interests: Methven and nearby - KINLOCH and GORRIE, CUMMING, who married a STEVEN ( or STIVEN). All pre 1870. Richard, Auckland. 2011 here, and a sunny day! When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except the portion to which you are replying. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 149 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

Happy new Year!! Wow, another recyle idea! We and the world can use it. Mary In a message dated 12/31/2010 7:28:57 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, rjpoole@ihug.co.nz writes: Happy New Year to all. Our public have voted in a fellow called English into parliament down here. And, what a pickle the finance is in. By the way, only a Scot would realise, that one can use 2005 calendars for 2011 (recovered from a bottom draw of better calendars). 2010 ones are OK for 2021 and 2027. Dont keep leap yr ones (2008, 2012 etc). They can only recycle every 28 yrs. Are there any CUMMING folk (Little Dunkeld, Fowlis Wester, Crieff) on this site ? Richard. When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except the portion to which you are replying. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This discussion reminded me that in an introduction to one of the volumes of the Oxford History of England series, the editor says that in the series, the term England is meant to cover all of Britain, partly because for so long the word England has been used in that way! I was watching a historical series on TV recently, and the Scottish-voiced man who was doing the commentary referred to England at a point when it had to be Britain. Boy, did that get stick in our household! But he as just reading his script, and probably had no input to it. I have to admit that the UK broadcasters are much better these days about using England and Britain correctly (probably through having had so many complaints), so things are going in the right direction. I like to point out that if they persist in using England to mean Britain, this gives ammunition to the Scottish Nationalist Party! Loking back in history, after the Jacobite rebellions the UK government adopted a policy of referring to Scotland as "North Britain" in official records. That would have been acceptable, if they also referred to England as South Britain, but they failed to do that, and thus made very little inroads into the national feeling of Scots. Isn't history great at telling us what we did wrong...... Gordon, in Caithness.

As a non political , I find the attitude of most politicians towards Scotland quite sad . The establishment of a Scottish Parliament has been a breath of fresh air and even the moribund Tories have flickered to life ! Forward .

I love soccer (football). I have noticed when playing internationally if the fans are rowdy they are Scots, but when they behave they are British. Same thing playing the game. Happy New Year all. Kathy in Canada

Hello again, This is the second of my two posts for the day. I thought I would give a Hogmanay mention to my Perthshire names. My MORRISON family were in Comrie until my great-great-grandfather Duncan Morrison (born 1785) moved to Glasgow and later to Campsie. His parents were Donald or Daniel Morrison and Elizabeth McKenzie and I have possibly grandparents Donald Morrison and Mary Ferguson of Comrie. If these are the correct people then Donald or Daniel was born in 1748. However, it is proving extremely difficult to go back any further with certainty. The only lead is via the Morrison DNA project, which has linked my family to that of James Morrison of Comrie, who emigrated to America just in time to fight in the revolutionary war in 1776. There are a few possibilities for a link but nothing definite. We are not related to any other Morrisons anywhere so far according to the DNA project. My YOUNG family were farmers in and around Meigle. My great-grandfather John Young farmed at Balmyle (just outside Meigle) in the late 19th century and my grandmother (one of the Jessies!) was born there. During the 19th century the family moved quite often so crossed the border into Angus at times, and my great-great-grandfather James Young farmed in Fife for a while too. Other connected names are Ogilvy and Hunter. Any new ideas welcome! Happy New Year everyone. best wishes, Sheila Perry

Hello all, I don't post very often because of lack of time but this is the first of two posts today (considered concatenating them into one but I decided that would be confusing and the header would be ridiculously long!). First of all, just to add to the alternate names discussion, I have a Donald/Daniel Morrison of Comrie, who seems to have changed from Donald to Daniel after the birth of his first son, causing quite a bit of confusion among researchers. This was in the middle to late 18th century and I am guessing it was something to do with a change from Gaelic to English being spoken in the area. In my family we have a whole series of Janets being called Jessie in the Angus/Perthshire borders branch and Janets being called Jenny in the Fife branch. But another one I find interesting is where a girl born in mid 19th century Fife is named Jemima after her maternal grandmother, Jacobina. best wishes, Sheila Perry

Hi Rhoda, I didn't take offence at all! I think it is absolutely right and proper for you to point this out. I had a big smile on my face when I read what you wrote. When I began my first job (MANY years ago) my first boss (an Englishman) corrected me about my application form, pointing out that nationality and citizenship were two very different things and pointed out to me that even though I held Australian citizenship, I was indeed, BRITISH! He was fiercely proud Brit! I think we should be more careful about such terms. It is very important, especially when we are recording history to make sure we get our terminology right! I will always think about whether or not I am using the correct term from here on. I think sometimes we have the right term in our head and we know what we mean, but we are just in too much in a rush to think about the fact that others might not be "thinking" what we are (that's the case with me anyway!) However, I do not think the same excuse would go for the author of a book of such significance as "The Fatal shore". After all, he has people editing, so someone should have picked it up! Hope your weather improves soon! Cheers, Kerri -----Original Message----- From: perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of CandROverson Sent: Friday, 31 December 2010 10:55 AM To: perthshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Military in Ireland and Daniel (Donald) McFarlane Hi Kerri Sorry, I didn't mean to have a go at you. Just wanted to stress that the British army included the Scottish regiments, and that the 'British' army wasn't the 'English' army. I have lived in England since my early twenties, and am married to an Englishman and now occasionally find myself talking about 'England' when I mean 'Britain'! LOL. I am only on the first chapter of Robert Hughes book and look forward to the rest. He appears to be a very accomplished writer. Best wishes Rhoda ----- Original Message ----- From: "kerriferguson" <kerriferguson@dodo.com.au> To: <perthshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Military in Ireland and Daniel (Donald) McFarlane > Hi Rhoda, > > The fact that your ancestor's change of name coincided with a change of > locale, might indicate that preferred usage varies depending where you are > at any given time!!! > > Fascinating! > > The Patrick and Peter one has just given me another clue and I am now hot > on > the trail of another person who had presented a brick wall up till now. > Thanks for that one. > > My person of interest was born in Glasgow of an Irish father and Scottish > mother. The Patrick hint has opened a new possibility. > > So from what you say, the best and most detailed records are held at Kew. > I > realise, of course, that I am looking at quite an early date for > Daniel/Donald. > > I will take on board what you say about the use of the terms Britain and > England and though I believe many of us realise that there is a > difference, > I think we just get careless. I feel chastened and will be most careful > from here on since you have pointed out the carelessness of interchanging > such terms. > When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except the portion to which you are replying. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 147 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

Thanks Ranald! And that certainly fits in with the family member I am researching! You are a mine of information. Are you just sitting somewhere at a desk waiting for obscure questions? Happy New Year to you Kerri -----Original Message----- From: perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ranald McIntyre Sent: Friday, 31 December 2010 6:50 AM To: perthshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Military in Ireland and Daniel (Donald) McFarlane: Multiple names Kerri According to the 'Concise Dictionary of English Christian Names' .. "Jessie is the Scottish diminutive of Janet (qv), now often used as an independant name..." There is more, but not relevent to your question. Regards Ranald On 30 December 2010 19:33, kerriferguson <kerriferguson@dodo.com.au> wrote: When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except the portion to which you are replying. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 147 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

Hi Rhoda, The fact that your ancestor's change of name coincided with a change of locale, might indicate that preferred usage varies depending where you are at any given time!!! Fascinating! The Patrick and Peter one has just given me another clue and I am now hot on the trail of another person who had presented a brick wall up till now. Thanks for that one. My person of interest was born in Glasgow of an Irish father and Scottish mother. The Patrick hint has opened a new possibility. So from what you say, the best and most detailed records are held at Kew. I realise, of course, that I am looking at quite an early date for Daniel/Donald. I will take on board what you say about the use of the terms Britain and England and though I believe many of us realise that there is a difference, I think we just get careless. I feel chastened and will be most careful from here on since you have pointed out the carelessness of interchanging such terms. "The Fatal Shore" is an "interesting" book and probably essential reading for anyone interested in the early days of the colony - but there are a few errors in it as with most books. I have read it three times and really enjoyed it every time as I keep having some new information jump out at me that hadn't really meant much on a previous reading. I will be more careful with my terminology in the future.... you know how it is ... we Aussies get carried away with excitement of the "chase" and forget ourselves. Have a great New Year, Kerri -----Original Message----- From: perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of CandROverson Sent: Thursday, 30 December 2010 11:34 AM To: perthshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Military in Ireland and Daniel (Donald) McFarlane Hi Kerri The two instances of Donald/Daniel in my tree related to someone born and living in Nairn (near Inverness) on the Moray Firth; and the other to someone born Daniel in the south of Scotland - in Kirkudbrightshire. But he fathered a child with my GG Aunt in Perth and became Donald for a while when living there; reverting to Daniel when he moved to Glasgow. Another example of two apparently different but interchangeable names in Scotland was/is? Patrick and Peter. The records I downloaded pertaining to my Gt Grandfather related to his discharge from the army on the grounds of ill-health. There were 4 pages which told me that he caught a fever when the regiment was in West Africa (the Gold Coast) in the 1870s and then developed TB during his convalescence. They also gave me a physical description and his date of joining the army and his civilian occupation prior to joining; and his army number. I wrote to the Black Watch museum to ask if they had any further information and the only additional information they provided was where his regiment was based during his years in the army. Scottish regiments, like English and Welsh regiments, are part of the British army (I mention this because I have found that Australians, like most other people in the world, including the English themselves, tend to think that 'England' is synonomous with 'Britain' which annoys us Scots (and Welsh) no end!). I have just begun to read 'The Fatal Shore' (my GGG Grandfather was transported for life to Van Diemens Land) and Robert Hughes manages to use the term 'England' and 'Britain' interchangeably - a bit like Donald and Daniel in fact. Aaargh! So, as far as army service is concerned there is no difference between Scottish and English regiments. Both served in Ireland. But if you could find what regiment Donald/Daniel was in then you should be able to find when his regiment was stationed there, and where. Best wishes Rhoda ----- Original Message ----- From: "kerriferguson" <kerriferguson@dodo.com.au> To: <perthshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 11:43 PM Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Military in Ireland and Daniel (Donald) McFarlane > Just out of interest, is it something peculiar to Perthshire and the > surrounding area, or is it a general Scottish thing? > When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except the portion to which you are replying. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 147 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

Thanks Sheila! Good grief - why does anyone bother to give anyone a name at all!!! (I knew about the "Daisy" from my Enid Blyton reading as a child! But the others ..... phew - what a maze!) And Ann and Agnes get Nancy? Now that is a revelation......... I have Nancy's and Agnes's on the same branch! Of course, on reflection, I can see how it comes about ............ This has been a really interesting thread ... I am grateful to everybody who has contributed. Much appreciated, Sheila Kerri -----Original Message----- From: perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of S Tryk Sent: Friday, 31 December 2010 6:39 AM To: perthshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Military in Ireland and Daniel (Donald) McFarlane:Multiple names Kerri, Janet gets called Jessie. Agnes gets called Nancy. Ann also gets called Nancy. Margaret can be Peggy, Maggie, Meta, Greta or Daisy. Sheila When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except the portion to which you are replying. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 147 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

Someone has just mentioned to me that "Jessie" is also a name used by the Scots for girls who carry another name but they couldn't remember which name it was. Do you happen to know anything about that as I have several "Jessie's" in my tree. A Happy and safe New Year to you also, Mark Kerri -----Original Message----- From: perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Mark Sutherland-Fisher Sent: Thursday, 30 December 2010 9:06 PM To: perthshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Military in Ireland and Daniel (Donald) McFarlane: Multiple names Morning all, There are numerous examples in Scotland of multiple names being the same name. David/Donald/Daniel Ian/John/Jack Alistair (all spellings)/Alexander Jean/Jane/Janet Elspeth/Elizabeth Agnes/Senga To give just a few examples. Happy New Year Mark -----Original Message----- From: perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of kerriferguson Sent: 29 December 2010 23:43 To: perthshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Military in Ireland and Daniel (Donald) McFarlane Just out of interest, is it something peculiar to Perthshire and the surrounding area, or is it a general Scottish thing? When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except the portion to which you are replying. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 147 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

Hi Kerri Sorry, I didn't mean to have a go at you. Just wanted to stress that the British army included the Scottish regiments, and that the 'British' army wasn't the 'English' army. I have lived in England since my early twenties, and am married to an Englishman and now occasionally find myself talking about 'England' when I mean 'Britain'! LOL. I am only on the first chapter of Robert Hughes book and look forward to the rest. He appears to be a very accomplished writer. Best wishes Rhoda ----- Original Message ----- From: "kerriferguson" <kerriferguson@dodo.com.au> To: <perthshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Military in Ireland and Daniel (Donald) McFarlane > Hi Rhoda, > > The fact that your ancestor's change of name coincided with a change of > locale, might indicate that preferred usage varies depending where you are > at any given time!!! > > Fascinating! > > The Patrick and Peter one has just given me another clue and I am now hot > on > the trail of another person who had presented a brick wall up till now. > Thanks for that one. > > My person of interest was born in Glasgow of an Irish father and Scottish > mother. The Patrick hint has opened a new possibility. > > So from what you say, the best and most detailed records are held at Kew. > I > realise, of course, that I am looking at quite an early date for > Daniel/Donald. > > I will take on board what you say about the use of the terms Britain and > England and though I believe many of us realise that there is a > difference, > I think we just get careless. I feel chastened and will be most careful > from here on since you have pointed out the carelessness of interchanging > such terms. >

Kerri According to the 'Concise Dictionary of English Christian Names' .. "Jessie is the Scottish diminutive of Janet (qv), now often used as an independant name..." There is more, but not relevent to your question. Regards Ranald On 30 December 2010 19:33, kerriferguson <kerriferguson@dodo.com.au> wrote:

Janet is the main one used as Jessie. In a message dated 12/30/2010 2:34:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, kerriferguson@dodo.com.au writes: Someone has just mentioned to me that "Jessie" is also a name used by the Scots for girls who carry another name but they couldn't remember which name it was. Do you happen to know anything about that as I have several "Jessie's" in my tree. A Happy and safe New Year to you also, Mark Kerri -----Original Message----- From: perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Mark Sutherland-Fisher Sent: Thursday, 30 December 2010 9:06 PM To: perthshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Military in Ireland and Daniel (Donald) McFarlane: Multiple names Morning all, There are numerous examples in Scotland of multiple names being the same name. David/Donald/Daniel Ian/John/Jack Alistair (all spellings)/Alexander Jean/Jane/Janet Elspeth/Elizabeth Agnes/Senga To give just a few examples. Happy New Year Mark -----Original Message----- From: perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of kerriferguson Sent: 29 December 2010 23:43 To: perthshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Military in Ireland and Daniel (Donald) McFarlane Just out of interest, is it something peculiar to Perthshire and the surrounding area, or is it a general Scottish thing? When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except the portion to which you are replying. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 147 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except the portion to which you are replying. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Kerri, Janet gets called Jessie. Agnes gets called Nancy. Ann also gets called Nancy. Margaret can be Peggy, Maggie, Meta, Greta or Daisy. Sheila

Thanks Kay, Isn't Scotland's People a helpful site...................it is so useful. I am bust looking at that area now and it doesn't look all that heavily populated. Another cousin is busily trying to contact the Parish church. I hope we find something. Daniel (Donald) came here as a convict (stole a sheep) and left family behind in Scotland so it's almost certain we have relatives and extended family back there somewhere. It may indeed turn out that we are related so I will keep a watch on developments. Kerri -----Original Message----- From: perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Katherine Liney Sent: Thursday, 30 December 2010 8:03 AM To: perthshire@rootsweb.com Subject: [PERTHSHIRE] McFarlanes in Dull I have McFarlanes in the Grandtully area of Parish of Dull in my ancestry, so was interested in the story of Donald MacFarlane. I also looked on scotlands people site at the OPR and found he was born at Lag of Grandtully and baptised 24th July 1802. I also found a Geo (George) baptised 3/06/1807 James 28/02/1805 and John 27/04/1800 belonging to the same parents Unfortunately he is not in my direct ancestry, but possibly related. Kay When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except the portion to which you are replying. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 145 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

Just out of interest, is it something peculiar to Perthshire and the surrounding area, or is it a general Scottish thing? -----Original Message----- From: perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sherry Sent: Thursday, 30 December 2010 10:02 AM To: perthshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Military in Ireland and Daniel (Donald) McFarlane FYI - one of my Caddel family from Perthshire used both the forenames of Donald / Daniel. When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except the portion to which you are replying. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 145 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

Morning all, There are numerous examples in Scotland of multiple names being the same name. David/Donald/Daniel Ian/John/Jack Alistair (all spellings)/Alexander Jean/Jane/Janet Elspeth/Elizabeth Agnes/Senga To give just a few examples. Happy New Year Mark -----Original Message----- From: perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:perthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of kerriferguson Sent: 29 December 2010 23:43 To: perthshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Military in Ireland and Daniel (Donald) McFarlane Just out of interest, is it something peculiar to Perthshire and the surrounding area, or is it a general Scottish thing?