Have to admit, I had never really thought about all this but Sheilas' email was very interesting My Scottish blood is back in the 1800's and there was a lot of it in my background... I have the bent little finger, longer 2nd toe, longer ring finger, attached ear lobes, freckles ( just a smattering) and my brother is badly afflicted with red hair 'n' all!!. A number of my cousins have red hair and freckles also. No wonder I feel such an affinity with my Scors forebears........ Regards Pat Stedman Brisbane, Australia ******************************************** One-name study of Keillor/Keillar/Keiller etc http://www.users.bigpond.com/kiellor/index.htm and for Clutton families http://www.geocities.com/p_stedman/Index.htm ******************************************** -----Original Message----- From: Cathie Shaw [mailto:shawcathie@optusnet.com.au] Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 3:16 PM To: PERTHSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [PERTH] Bent little finger If you would like a fancy name for your bent little finger, the medical term is "clinodactyly of the fifth finger". It can be a familial dominant trait. I don't have the bent finger (obviously no Robertsons strayed across my ancestral path), but I do have the long 2nd toe and freckles! Cathie Melbourne, Australia ==== PERTHSHIRE Mailing List ==== -------------------------------------------------- ENJOY the list. Ask questions and share information. If you have an issue, contact the list administrator, Pamela.Paddock.Arnold PERTHSHIRE-admin@rootsweb.com http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/SCT/PERTHSHIRE.html --------------------------------------------------

If you would like a fancy name for your bent little finger, the medical term is "clinodactyly of the fifth finger". It can be a familial dominant trait. I don't have the bent finger (obviously no Robertsons strayed across my ancestral path), but I do have the long 2nd toe and freckles! Cathie Melbourne, Australia

Hi Ann, Your anti spam blocker is rejecting my mail to you. Thanks for your reply, yes I got the letter re Duncan McG. marrying an Isabella McDonald. Here is what I have from John Ward :- Duncan McGregor Innkeeper at Brig o'Turk married Henrietta Isabella Ferguson They had a son Peter (b Callander 12Jun1836) who married Mary McGibbon (Stirling, Scotland, 5Jun1860) and migrated to Australia. There seem to be two marriages for this Duncan in the Callander register: first toJanet Ferguson on 29Dec1812, with a son William b Aberfoyle 20Mar1815 (IGI), and secondly to Henrietta Isabella (Henny) Ferguson 2Jun1821. Peter's marriage cert 1860 says his father was deceased by the time of his marriage. How does this fit with your info? as the above is our line, Peter being my husbands Gt Grandfather. I don't have anything before Duncan.. Mary.

Fellow genealogists, Have you ever used the Internet to learn about genealogy methods and resources? Taken a genealogy course online? Read some 'how to' articles? Then I would like to hear from you. I am an Australian Ph.D. student who is currently writing a book chapter for an academic Virtual Learning Environment publication - my chapter is about using the Internet for genealogical education. I would therefore love to hear from you, fellow genealogists, about any Internet-based content you've used for genealogy education. This includes online courses (free or fee), how-to's, articles/columns, newsgroups, BBS, chat, mailing lists, forums, or even personal web pages that publish learning material - anything online that helps you in learning the craft of genealogy. Your comments on the following is of utmost interest: What are your favourite learning outlets on the Internet? How often do you use them? Can or did you find what you needed online? What are your learning successes? What could be better? What do you look for in genealogical learning on the Internet? If you would like to participate, your comments are extremely welcome. Please send your comments to me directly at research@veale.com.au before Saturday 1st May 2004. I thank you in advance for your participation in this academic research. Kylie Veale P.S. Names and email addresses will be protected and are therefore not included in the publication. Copies of the paper will be made available to interested participants on request, after the book has been published. ----------------------------------------------- Kylie J. Veale | Brisbane, Australia GradDipInvEnv, MInetStds(Design) Provisional PhD candidate http://www.veale.com.au/kylie icq: 27938257 msn: kyliej@hotmail.com yahoo: kylie_veale

Good Morning: I am finding relatives in the Family Search and I think there is a way of finding the children of couples. I thought I had the method written down, I have looked through my papers and have not found the method. There is also instructions on their site, but that didn't work for me. Could SKS spell it out for me? Thank you. Bob. Guelph.

Seems to me the widow's peak, the premature white hair and the freckles must also be of Celtic origin. Many of my cousins and I have the long index toe and all of the above.... But then, I also seem to have the bent finger if it is just the top joint - or could that just be from arthritis? <g> Iris F, Reily

Gosh, that Robertson/Duncan bent little finger certainly started an interesting chain! Your answers got me googling. After a bit of research, I have to say I don't think our family's bent little finger is the DC syndrome, which seems to make the finger contract towards the palm. The bent little finger involves the top joint of the little finger leaning toward the ring finger. If you lay your hand flat on the table, you can see it. Apparently Mendel lists this as a dominant genetic trait. Like a widow's peak, freckles, longer second toe, ring finger longer than index finger, attached ear lobe, dimples, and so on. My husband, his mother, his sister, two of our children all have the bent finger. All supposedly from the ancestor, John Dunkin, son of William Duncan, the Baptist minister in Scotland, who migrated in the mid-1700s. But we still haven't found him... Incidentally, in Menzies Castle there's the plaster cast of a hand, said to be that of Mary, Queen of Scots. My husband took one look at it and said, "Whoever she is, she must be a Robertson. She's got a bent little finger!" Sir Ian Moncreiff's book about the Scottish clans, which I can't find at this moment, was the first place we saw this trait mentioned in relationship to the Robertson clan. Now, about that widow's peak and freckles and premature white hair... Sheila

I'd be interested as well in knowing who was buried in this cemetery ... I have McLeans and Carmichaels that lived and died in that area that I am looking for.... Margaret

Dear All My 'oldest' known ancestor is John KENISON who married Ann COUTTS of Kitins in the parish church of COUPAR ANGUS 7 November 1802. They appear to have had a son John born in COUPAR ANGUS21 October 1811. I guess John (the dad) was born about 1770 ono. A tree has been built up using family knowledge, 'real certificates', and digitised web data - IGI, OPRs etc. Other connections are BLAIRGOWERIE and GLENISLA. Watch out - we're coming on holiday to Tayside in May for relaxation and ancestor chasing. It'll be both sad and nice to walk the ground where relatives once lived, worked and died. Ideally, we would like advice on where to concentrate our search efforts. Little short tramping the valley wearing sandwich boards which say 'Kenison Wanted' I'm stuck and would appreciate help and advice on where to search and get further back. Many thanks and regards Peter Luker -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter A Luker BA(Hons) CEng FIMMM CChem FRSC The Birches 41 Drudgeon Way Bean Dartford Kent DA2 8BJ Tel: 01474 709217 This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee only. Any unauthorised use may be unlawful. If you receive this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender by using the reply facility on your e-mail software. Thank you. .

Sorry about this List, Ann could you contact me as my mail to you bounced. Here is some of what I wrote as someone else might be interested in this family. Our Duncan, was Inn keeper at Brig O Turk. This is on his son Peter's death cert. This Peter is my husbands Gt Grandfather. He came to Australia in 1860 with his wife, Mary McGibbon. Regards, Mary.

I have just updated Births and Deaths, and will try to get the other sections updated within a few days. We now have over 30,000!!! And now for the URL - www.sctbdm.com :) Cheers Sue

I have just updated Births and Deaths, and will try to get the other sections updated within a few days. We now have over 30,000!!! Cheers Sue

Hi Kathleen, what Sue so kindly uploads and maintains is a list of records that we have transcribed or recieved copies of (like from Scotlands People), and are willing to share with others. I urge all of us to submit what we have to Sue, be it one cert ot 100 OPR transcriptions. I urge to all you look at your names that your researching, you might not only find that missing record but a fellow researcher, and if you upload your stuff, others can find you. cheers John Dods Wellington, New Zealand --- Kathleen Ogg-Moss <koggmoss@sympatico.ca> wrote: > Sue, > > Thank you for all your work. does this cover a > certain area or time? > Kathleen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sue" <sue@gil.com.au> > To: <PERTHSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2004 10:07 AM > Subject: [PERTH] SCT BDM Update - with URL > > > > I have just updated Births and Deaths, and will > try to get the other > > sections updated within a few days. > > > > We now have over 30,000!!! > > > > And now for the URL - > > www.sctbdm.com > > > > :) > > > > Cheers > > Sue > > > > ===== Proud to be a transcriber for the freeCEN Project,UK and the 1901 Candian Census and volunteer for Random Acts of Geneological Kindness. NZSG member Researching BATTERS in Yorkshire BENNIE in Lanarkshire, Dunbartonshire & West Lothian BENNING in Lanarkshire & Montreal COLLINS in California & PA COOPER in Yorkshire DODS in East Lothian, Berwickshire, Vancouver BC, Montreal, Manchester, South Africa, Hong Kong, India DOUGLAS in Lanarkshire FENTON in Edinbugh FISHER in Yorkshire FORREST in South Africa HAYTON in Yorkshire HEWAT in East Lothian LAMONT in Lanarkshire LEGGAT in Monreal MCLEAN in Argyllshire MURRIE in Lanarkshire NICOL in Lanarkshire RANKINE in Dunbartonshire, Perthshire SEYMOUR inVancouver, B.C. & Montreal SHIRREFF in East Lothian SNELL in California, Oregeon SUFFILL/SUFFIELD in Yorkshire TROTTER in Lanarkshire, Stirlingshire, West Lothian WATSON in Brantford & Barrie, Ontario. WEIR in Argyllshire & Lanarkshie WILLIAMSON in Edinburgh & North Berwick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25� http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash

Sue, Thank you for all your work. does this cover a certain area or time? Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue" <sue@gil.com.au> To: <PERTHSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2004 10:07 AM Subject: [PERTH] SCT BDM Update - with URL > I have just updated Births and Deaths, and will try to get the other > sections updated within a few days. > > We now have over 30,000!!! > > And now for the URL - > www.sctbdm.com > > :) > > Cheers > Sue > > > > ==== PERTHSHIRE Mailing List ==== > -------------------------------------------------- > ALL messages are recorded in the Rootsweb archives. > http://searches2.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/SCT/PERTHSHIRE.html > -------------------------------------------------- > >

Hi everyone, For all those researching the surnames Patan, Paton and Patton, a complete transcription of all burials for these names in the town of Perth from 1794 to 1863 can now be found on my website, at the following link: http://chrispatonscotland.tripod.com/calumsfamily/id64.html. I have so far transcribed the regsiters as far as 1863, the registers do in fact go beyond this to the late 19th Century, and at some point in the future I will return to the A.K.Bell library to finish the job. Hope this is of some use to someone!! Chris Paton

There is a small cemetery in Glen Lyon, on private land, near Milton Eonan. As I recall, there's a low stone wall around it, and it's on the south side of the road. Many of the names are MacNaughtans. Perhaps someone with more up-to-date information can tell you about it. I'd like to know myself if there's a listing of the MIs there. Sheila

List members will be interested in the database launched by the GSV to commemorate 25th April, Anzac Day. In 1995 as part of Australia Remembers- some 20,000 crosses were planted in the lawns of the Shrine of Remembrance in Melbourne in memory of service men and women killed in action during the war or who had died since. The GSV volunteers indexed this information and it is now searchable on its website www.gsv.org.au. , at the GSV Home page , click on Search then click on Commemorative Crosses. Mary Anne Gourley

I have been looking into this also as I was DX'd with DC last year. My Perth families are McGREGOR-JENKIN(E) still checking DRUMMOND and McCOWAN lines. Rob down under in New Zealand -----Original Message----- From: Glen Bodie [mailto:glen@glenbodie.com] Sent: Saturday, 24 April 2004 11:12 To: PERTHSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [PERTH] Duncan/Robertson Doreen - pretty hard to tell from that description, but that sounds a lot like a condition called Dupuytrens Contracture. I have it as well. It was typically found (say 1000 years ago) in Scandinavian peoples, and has been used as a genetic marker to indicate the origin of people. Given the cross-breeding (or shall we call it co-dependent mutual raping, pillaging and plundering?) between northern Scotland and the western parts of what is now Denmark and Norway, that genetic marker is now found in a number of northern UK people as well, surely including Perthshire. For your interest, do a Google for "dupuytrens viking" (without the quotes). I heard of this on a series on the History channel called the "Blood of the Vikings": http://www.historytelevision.ca/archives/vikings/programs/ Regards - Glen C. Bodie Web http://www.glenbodie.com Home mailto:glen@glenbodie.com

After I read Tina and Ian's email, and went to the link to find that article about the Celtic second toe being the same length as the big toe, I immediately began to examine my own feet. Bingo! Big and second toe the same length!! Was everyone else on the list peering at their feet? I will check my kids feet later. Margaret in Toronto ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tina and Ian" <tina.morgan@dsl.pipex.com> To: <PERTHSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 6:27 PM Subject: Re: Bent Finger [was [PERTH] Duncan/Robertson] > Never heard anything about Vikings & bent fingers. However, there is > something about Celtic toes in (I think) the 7th paragraph of this link:- > http://www.electricscotland.com/familytree/magazine/octnov2002/celts.htm > > You can read about the relative lengths of toes on other web sites, and the > same trait is also said bybe some to be Native American, and there is a > dance-shoe site that calls it "Greek foot". Who knows what to believe? > > Tina > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pat Stedman" <kiellor@bigpond.com> > To: <PERTHSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 11:27 AM > Subject: RE: Bent Finger [was [PERTH] Duncan/Robertson] > > > > I believe there are a number of indicators to race > > Eg I have been told that celts *usually* have the second toe on their > > foot longer than their great toe...or is it the third toe? Its one of > > the toes anyway!! > Pat Stedman > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: KenHarrison11@cs.com [mailto:KenHarrison11@cs.com] > > Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 3:37 PM > > To: PERTHSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: Bent Finger [was [PERTH] Duncan/Robertson] > > > > Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:05:38 EDT > > From: DoreenGen@aol.com > > To: PERTHSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [PERTH] Duncan/Robertson > > > > Sheila, > > With so little to go on, and a VERY common name, you don't have much > > hope. > > But here's a co-incidence. > > I have a direct ancestor called William Duncan, parents unknown and > > can't get > > any further, and both my little fingers are bent. A relative in Canada, > > who > > has the same ancestor, has the same affliction. > > > > Never heard of it being a specific family trait, but you never know!!! > > > > Doreen Cuthbert > > Fife > > > > > Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:53:25 -0600 > > > From: "Donald" <esquipi@sofnet.com> > > > To: PERTHSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Duncan/Robertson > > > > > > Here's an obscure question. My husband's ancestor was a John > > > Duncan/Dunkin who was probably born in New Jersey -- possibly Trenton > > > -- in the early 1700s. No records, of course. Some say he could have > > > been born in Scotland or on shipboard. His father was supposed to be > > > called William Duncan and was probably a Baptist minister. Lots of > > > maybes and probablies here. Has anyone any ideas on how we might track > > > > > down this William Duncan? We have noted that several descendants have > > > the bent little finger that has been observed in the Robertson/Duncan > > > clan. Sheila > > > > > The "bent finger" is supposedly a genetic trait tracable to the Vikings. > > I > > can't remember its medical name now, but there was a TV series (BBC, I > > think) > > called "Blood of the Vikings" (or similar name) within the past year or > > two and > > one one the episodes contained information about this. > > > > It runs in the family of a friend of mine (McInnes, from Campbelltown > > area). > > > > Ken Harrison > > North Vancouver, Canada > > ______________________________

Never heard anything about Vikings & bent fingers. However, there is something about Celtic toes in (I think) the 7th paragraph of this link:- http://www.electricscotland.com/familytree/magazine/octnov2002/celts.htm You can read about the relative lengths of toes on other web sites, and the same trait is also said bybe some to be Native American, and there is a dance-shoe site that calls it "Greek foot". Who knows what to believe? Tina ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Stedman" <kiellor@bigpond.com> To: <PERTHSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 11:27 AM Subject: RE: Bent Finger [was [PERTH] Duncan/Robertson] > I believe there are a number of indicators to race > Eg I have been told that celts *usually* have the second toe on their > foot longer than their great toe...or is it the third toe? Its one of > the toes anyway!! Pat Stedman > > -----Original Message----- > From: KenHarrison11@cs.com [mailto:KenHarrison11@cs.com] > Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 3:37 PM > To: PERTHSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: Bent Finger [was [PERTH] Duncan/Robertson] > > Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:05:38 EDT > From: DoreenGen@aol.com > To: PERTHSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [PERTH] Duncan/Robertson > > Sheila, > With so little to go on, and a VERY common name, you don't have much > hope. > But here's a co-incidence. > I have a direct ancestor called William Duncan, parents unknown and > can't get > any further, and both my little fingers are bent. A relative in Canada, > who > has the same ancestor, has the same affliction. > > Never heard of it being a specific family trait, but you never know!!! > > Doreen Cuthbert > Fife > > > Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:53:25 -0600 > > From: "Donald" <esquipi@sofnet.com> > > To: PERTHSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Duncan/Robertson > > > > Here's an obscure question. My husband's ancestor was a John > > Duncan/Dunkin who was probably born in New Jersey -- possibly Trenton > > -- in the early 1700s. No records, of course. Some say he could have > > been born in Scotland or on shipboard. His father was supposed to be > > called William Duncan and was probably a Baptist minister. Lots of > > maybes and probablies here. Has anyone any ideas on how we might track > > > down this William Duncan? We have noted that several descendants have > > the bent little finger that has been observed in the Robertson/Duncan > > clan. Sheila > > > The "bent finger" is supposedly a genetic trait tracable to the Vikings. > I > can't remember its medical name now, but there was a TV series (BBC, I > think) > called "Blood of the Vikings" (or similar name) within the past year or > two and > one one the episodes contained information about this. > > It runs in the family of a friend of mine (McInnes, from Campbelltown > area). > > Ken Harrison > North Vancouver, Canada