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    1. [PERSINGER] One reply to Lance's query about John Abner Persinger, born 1841/42 at Roanoke Co, Virginia
    2. Allan Griffith
    3. Lance, Will tell you what I believe about John Abner Persinger's line. All subject to scrutiny and open to correction and friendly discussion. First of all it is important to consider that as far as we can tell, the Roanoke County line has been shown to be genetically (per DNA) in no way similar to the Persingers in early Botetourt & Alleghany Counties of Virginia. But the Roanoke branch is a close DNA match to the Pennsylvania Barshinger line that Stephen Harold Smith's book is about - titled "Barshingers of America". How the two disparate U.S. Persinger lines relate if at all, is still up for argument and may never be discovered. These findings and Stephen H. Smith's book has caused a lot of mistrust in the old assumptions we've made about Persinger genealogy for over 2 centuries and I think should make us question for good reasons. There has even been some real and foolish anger expressed by some researchers regarding this argument. One scenario that would allow both to descend from the same family but not from the same paternal genes would be if a non-paternity event occured in the first generation from Jacob the 1735 immigrant. A more likely scenario in my opinion is consistent with what I believe that many of James Snyder's researchers seem to believe in that his line stems from Andreas, also of Switzerland rather than Jacob the 1735 immigrant and that those two men were not related, although both had the U.S. name of Persinger ..... although Stephen H. Smith has some very concerning arguments against that theory that are well explained in his book. All the above being said, it should be noted that we believe we have reasonable evidence to show that the Botetourt & Alleghany (includes later Kanawha & Greenbrier Cos of WV) branches are genetically equivalent to the BERTSCHINGERs of the Zumikon area of Switzerland (SE of Zurich). This by virtue of the fact that we have "Y" chromosome tested a man named Peter Bertshchinger in Switzerland who is a very close DNA match to those Persinger lines excluding the Barshingers and the Roanoke Persingers. John Abner was son of James Snyder Persinger & his 1st wife, Emaline Petty. That first marriage was March 10, 1838. I have that James & Emaline had 4 children. Some have a birthdate for John Abner of July 7, 1842 which is slightly different by one day and one year of the July 6, 1841 BD for him that you show. I have no evidence to support either so please let me know the source of yours. This is not my own work and is not well sourced at all in my opinion, so I would like as much verification as possible, thus nothing I say here should be assumed to be fact. How's that for a bit of genealogical self-sarcasm? I do believe that James Snyder had a 2nd wife, Mary E. Medley, with whom he had at least 2 more children, one of those children David William Persinger died fairly recently in November 1967. I show that John Abner Persinger died March 2, 1913 but I would like to know where he is buried and I have no marriage date for him with Louisa Burwell Harvey but assume about 1866. *I would like someone to help us out with what appears to be an interesting migration path for John Abner* - in that it appears his first child, Robert H. born August 1867 was born at Virginia (presumably Roanoke Co), but his next two children were born at Missouri 1869 & 1872 - Emma & Martha, respectively. Then the 4th child, Eliza and the rest were again born back in Virginia - the last 4 children starting with Eliza, all born at Virginia from 1874-1880. Can you verify this and what is the history behind the migration back and forth? I do believe he is the one found at Pettis County, Missouri in 1870 - do you agree ? I show 7 children from his 1st wife, Louisa Harvey and do not have children with his 2nd wife, Lucy F. - and do not know when they married but assume around 1899? If Lucy's BD of approx. 1851 and they married around 1899, is correct then it can probably be presumed she had no children with John Abner. Now, my hope is that we can stimulate someone from John Abner's line to do some DNA testing to help us unravel the global Persinger puzzle. A family DNA test and a "Y" chromosome test would be great if could be done before I become to feeble minded to comprehend the results. -- Thank You, Allan Griffith Bloomington, Illinois "What is Jazz?..Man, if you have to ask, you'll never know." -Louis Armstrong

    03/29/2014 02:37:19
    1. Re: [PERSINGER] One reply to Lance's query about John Abner Persinger, born 1841/42 at Roanoke Co, Virginia
    2. Lance Piatt
    3. Dear Alan, Thanks for the response. First off, just so you know, I am doing this research on the behalf of a friend. His wife descends from Emma Petty PERSINGER. As family lore has it Emma was born in 1875 in Pettis County, Missouri and that her mother died when she was young. As the story goes, she was betrothed to a guy in Virginia, but she did not agree to the marriage and left home for Texas. Where she met and married Charles McNeill, in Austin, Texas. It is believed that because Charlie was much younger than she, she lied about her age. t In 1889 two of Charlie's brothers were involved in burning down a school house. When the sheriff showed up to the McNIELL home, he was greeted with the family Winchester. A scuffle ensued and rifle accidentally discharged killing the sheriff. The two boys left Texas for Tacoma, Washington. The father turned himself in. He was cleared of charges, Charlie married Emma and the rest of the family moved to Tacoma. Regards, Lance On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 20:37:19 -0500 Allan Griffith <magriffy@comcast.net> wrote: > Lance, Will tell you what I believe about John Abner >Persinger's > line. All subject to scrutiny and open to correction >and friendly > discussion. > >First of all it is important to consider that as far as >we can tell, > the Roanoke County line has been shown to be genetically >(per DNA) in > no way similar to the Persingers in early Bot etourt & >Alleghany Counties > of Virginia. But the Roanoke branch is a close DNA >match to the > Pennsylvania Barshinger line that Stephen Harold Smith's >book is about - > titled "Barshingers of America". > > How the two disparate U.S. Persinger lines relate if >at all, is > still up for argument and may never be discovered. > These findings > and Stephen H. Smith's book has caused a lot of mistrust >in the old > assumptions we've made about Persinger genealogy for >over 2 centuries > and I think should make us question for good reasons. >There has even > been some real and foolish anger expressed by some >researchers regarding > this argument. > > One scenario that would allow both to descend from >the same family > but not from the same paternal genes would be if a >non-paternity event > occured in the first generation from Jacob the 1735 >immigrant. A more > likely scenario in my opinion is consistent with what I >believe that > many of James Snyder's researchers seem to believe in >that his line > stems from Andreas, also of Switzerland rather than >Jacob the 1735 > immigrant and that those two men were not related, >although both had the > U.S. name of Persinger ..... although Stephen H. Smith >has some very > concerning arguments against that theory that are well >explained in his > book. > > All the above being said, it should be noted that we >believe we > have reasonable evidence to show that the Botetourt & >Alleghany > (includes later Kanawha & Greenbrier Cos of WV) branches >are genetically > equivalent to the BERTSCHINGERs of the Zumikon area of >Switzerland (SE > of Zurich). This by virtue of the fact that we have >"Y" chromosome > tested a man named Peter Bertshchinger in Switzerland >who is a very > close DNA match to those Persinger lines excluding the >Barshingers and > the Roanoke Persingers. > > John Abner was son of James Snyder Persinger & his 1st >wife, Emaline > Petty. That first marriage was March 10, 1838. I >have that James & > Emaline had 4 children. Some have a birthdate for >John Abner of July > 7, 1842 which is slightly different by one day and one >year of the July > 6, 1841 BD for him that you show. I have no evidence >to support > either so please let me know the source of yours. > This is not my own > work and is not well sourced at all in my opinion, so I >would like as > much verification as possible, thus nothing I say here >should be assumed > to be fact. How's that for a bit of genealogical >self-sarcasm? > > I do believe that James Snyder had a 2nd wife, Mary E. >Medley, with whom > he had at least 2 more children, one of those children >David William > Persinger died fairly recently in November 1967. I >show that John > Abner Persinger died March 2, 1913 but I would like to >know where he is > buried and I have no marriage date for him with Louisa >Burwell Harvey > but assume about 1866. > > *I would like someone to help us out with what appears >to be an > interesting migration path for John Abner* - in that it >appears his > first child, Robert H. born August 1867 was born at >Virginia (presumably > Roanoke Co), but his next two children were born at >Missouri 1869 & > 1872 - Emma & Martha, respectively. Then the 4th >child, Eliza and the > rest were again born back in Virginia - the last 4 >children starting > with Eliza, all born at Virginia from 1874-1880. Can >you verify this > and what is the history behind the migration back and >forth? I do > believe he is the one found at Pettis County, Missouri >in 1870 - do you > agree ? I show 7 children from his 1st wife, Louisa >Harvey and do > not have children with his 2nd wife, Lucy F. - and do >not know when they > married but assume around 1899? If Lucy's BD of >approx. 1851 and > they married around 1899, is correct then it can >probably be presumed > she had no children with John Abner. > > Now, my hope is that we can stimulate someone from >John Abner's > line to do some DNA testing to help us unravel the >global Persinger > puzzle. A family DNA test and a "Y" chromosome test >would be great if > could be done before I become to feeble minded to >comprehend the results. > > > -- > Thank You, Allan Griffith > Bloomington, Illinois > > "What is Jazz?..Man, if you have to ask, you'll never >know." > -Louis Armstrong > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >PERSINGER-request@rootsweb.com with the word >'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the >body of the message

    03/29/2014 03:12:43
    1. Re: [PERSINGER] One reply to Lance's query about John Abner Persinger, born 1841/42 at Roanoke Co, Virginia
    2. Allan Griffith
    3. Lance, How about writing me via email to discuss this further. I believe I've recently heard this same exact story before. I also have discovered that the DNA contributor to help us figure out some of the Roanoke Co. connections and lack of connections was through a descendant of one of John Abner's sons, William Burwell Persinger. - Allan Griffith, Email: magriffy@comcast.net On 3/29/2014 11:12 PM, Lance Piatt wrote: > Dear Alan, > > Thanks for the response. > > First off, just so you know, I am doing this research on > the behalf of a friend. His wife descends from Emma Petty > PERSINGER. As family lore has it Emma was born in 1875 in > Pettis County, Missouri and that her mother died when she > was young. As the story goes, she was betrothed to a guy > in Virginia, but she did not agree to the marriage and > left home for Texas. > Where she met and married Charles McNeill, in Austin, > Texas. It is believed that because Charlie was much > younger than she, she lied about her age. > t > In 1889 two of Charlie's brothers were involved in burning > down a school house. When the sheriff showed up to the > McNIELL home, he was greeted with the family Winchester. > A scuffle ensued and rifle accidentally discharged > killing the sheriff. The two boys left Texas for Tacoma, > Washington. The father turned himself in. He was cleared > of charges, Charlie married Emma and the rest of the > family moved to Tacoma. > > Regards, > Lance > > On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 20:37:19 -0500 > Allan Griffith <magriffy@comcast.net> wrote: >> Lance, Will tell you what I believe about John Abner >> Persinger's >> line. All subject to scrutiny and open to correction >> and friendly >> discussion. >> >> First of all it is important to consider that as far as >> we can tell, >> the Roanoke County line has been shown to be genetically >> (per DNA) in >> no way similar to the Persingers in early Bot > etourt & >> Alleghany Counties >> of Virginia. But the Roanoke branch is a close DNA >> match to the >> Pennsylvania Barshinger line that Stephen Harold Smith's >> book is about - >> titled "Barshingers of America". >> >> How the two disparate U.S. Persinger lines relate if >> at all, is >> still up for argument and may never be discovered. >> These findings >> and Stephen H. Smith's book has caused a lot of mistrust >> in the old >> assumptions we've made about Persinger genealogy for >> over 2 centuries >> and I think should make us question for good reasons. >> There has even >> been some real and foolish anger expressed by some >> researchers regarding >> this argument. >> >> One scenario that would allow both to descend from >> the same family >> but not from the same paternal genes would be if a >> non-paternity event >> occured in the first generation from Jacob the 1735 >> immigrant. A more >> likely scenario in my opinion is consistent with what I >> believe that >> many of James Snyder's researchers seem to believe in >> that his line >> stems from Andreas, also of Switzerland rather than >> Jacob the 1735 >> immigrant and that those two men were not related, >> although both had the >> U.S. name of Persinger ..... although Stephen H. Smith >> has some very >> concerning arguments against that theory that are well >> explained in his >> book. >> >> All the above being said, it should be noted that we >> believe we >> have reasonable evidence to show that the Botetourt & >> Alleghany >> (includes later Kanawha & Greenbrier Cos of WV) branches >> are genetically >> equivalent to the BERTSCHINGERs of the Zumikon area of >> Switzerland (SE >> of Zurich). This by virtue of the fact that we have >> "Y" chromosome >> tested a man named Peter Bertshchinger in Switzerland >> who is a very >> close DNA match to those Persinger lines excluding the >> Barshingers and >> the Roanoke Persingers. >> >> John Abner was son of James Snyder Persinger & his 1st >> wife, Emaline >> Petty. That first marriage was March 10, 1838. I >> have that James & >> Emaline had 4 children. Some have a birthdate for >> John Abner of July >> 7, 1842 which is slightly different by one day and one >> year of the July >> 6, 1841 BD for him that you show. I have no evidence >> to support >> either so please let me know the source of yours. >> This is not my own >> work and is not well sourced at all in my opinion, so I >> would like as >> much verification as possible, thus nothing I say here >> should be assumed >> to be fact. How's that for a bit of genealogical >> self-sarcasm? >> >> I do believe that James Snyder had a 2nd wife, Mary E. >> Medley, with whom >> he had at least 2 more children, one of those children >> David William >> Persinger died fairly recently in November 1967. I >> show that John >> Abner Persinger died March 2, 1913 but I would like to >> know where he is >> buried and I have no marriage date for him with Louisa >> Burwell Harvey >> but assume about 1866. >> >> *I would like someone to help us out with what appears >> to be an >> interesting migration path for John Abner* - in that it >> appears his >> first child, Robert H. born August 1867 was born at >> Virginia (presumably >> Roanoke Co), but his next two children were born at >> Missouri 1869 & >> 1872 - Emma & Martha, respectively. Then the 4th >> child, Eliza and the >> rest were again born back in Virginia - the last 4 >> children starting >> with Eliza, all born at Virginia from 1874-1880. Can >> you verify this >> and what is the history behind the migration back and >> forth? I do >> believe he is the one found at Pettis County, Missouri >> in 1870 - do you >> agree ? I show 7 children from his 1st wife, Louisa >> Harvey and do >> not have children with his 2nd wife, Lucy F. - and do >> not know when they >> married but assume around 1899? If Lucy's BD of >> approx. 1851 and >> they married around 1899, is correct then it can >> probably be presumed >> she had no children with John Abner. >> >> Now, my hope is that we can stimulate someone from >> John Abner's >> line to do some DNA testing to help us unravel the >> global Persinger >> puzzle. A family DNA test and a "Y" chromosome test >> would be great if >> could be done before I become to feeble minded to >> comprehend the results. >> >> >> -- >> Thank You, Allan Griffith >> Bloomington, Illinois >> >> "What is Jazz?..Man, if you have to ask, you'll never >> know." >> -Louis Armstrong >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> PERSINGER-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the >> body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERSINGER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2014.0.4354 / Virus Database: 3722/7268 - Release Date: 03/29/14 > > -- Thank You, Allan Griffith Bloomington, Illinois "What is Jazz?..Man, if you have to ask, you'll never know." -Louis Armstrong

    03/29/2014 06:00:10