Thanks for responses. Candy & Lindsay - at the moment I am trying to find my ggggrandfather Jiban/Ziba Olen/in's birth place in PA and then hopefully his parents names. When I have that I will then have first names to go with Olen/in and can look up deaths. Good to know how to go about it in PA. It seems though, if I don't know the county I may not ever find his actual birth record to begin with. I'll give the rootsweb site a go and hope for the best. Many thanks Carla