William, Please re-read my earlier message. Making one copy for personal or scholarly research is authorized under the Fair Use clause of the Copyright act. When libraries make a copy for someone (say, for InterLibrary Loan), they are doing that as the agent of the researcher, which is also covered under Fair Use (libraries are specifically mentioned in the Act). Someone may not plan to distribute anything she's given, but if someone other than the author, copyright holder (author, author's heirs or publisher who has a copyright) makes those copies and gives them to her, that person is doing distribution. By asking someone to do that, one is asking them to break the law, and becomes an accessory to an illegal action. There is a way around all this mess -- if someone reads an article and quotes small portions of it, or rephrases the facts (citing the original author as their source, of course), that's called research or scholarship, and is perfectly within the law. It is the EXPRESSION of a work that is copyrighted, not discrete facts embedded within it. So, if I write a biography of my GGGG grandfather, Riggs Pennington, you can't legally copy it and give it away or sell it, but you can discover within that work that I believe Riggs was the son of Timothy Pennington, that he was a land surveryor and he died in Texas after living in KY, IN and IL, and you are perfectly free to use those bits of information any way you like. If you properly cite your source, you're doing good genealogy research, but even if you don't it's not illegal to use the information itself. Remember that ethics, law and rules of research are three different things, even though they overlap in many areas. Look, I didn't write this law, and I'm not a lawyer, and I'm not even writing this as a PRA representative. I'm not on the PRA Board, I don't make policy for the group. I'm simply trying to provide some information to this group (and the PRA Board) about the law that I've had to acquire (and abide by, and expect others to abide by) in my business as a publisher. It's really pretty simple. If you don't own something, you can't give it away without stealing it unless you have the owner's permission to do so. Intellectual property is still property, just like personal property or real property. If you take the results of someone's work, whether it is from a writer or a woodcarver or a car manufacturer, and give it to someone else without paying the maker (or the maker's distributor) for it and without the maker's permission, you're guilty of theft regardless of whether you made a profit on it or not. The confusion arises in the case of intellectual property because the law actually allows one to do this in a limited way under certain conditions, but if you don't meet those conditions you are violating the law. The PRA board is trying very hard to understand how to make the literature they've published over the past 30-40 years available and still be legal and not bankrupt the organization by reproducing material without compensation. Progress really is happening, but remember this is a volunteer organization, and that sometimes makes things take longer than if it was a commercial outfit doing it. Katherine >I suppose the libraries are breaking the law by having the copy >machines there. Why, because what is there to copy in libraries but >copyrighted works Sue already stated that she did not intend to >distribute the material. Your splitting hairs here. >-----Original Message----- >From: Katherine Cochrane <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] <[email protected]> >Date: Friday, December 24, 1999 1:52 AM >Subject: Re: [PENNINGTON-L] Re: [PRA]: Group 10 Information > > > >Ask your friend's husband if he's willing to defend someone in court > >on that basis. Yes, many people break the law and get away with it, > >mainly because it's generally more expensive to pursue violators than > >to ignore them, but it is still illegal and unethical to copy and > >distribute without permission work that you didn't create or hold > >copyrights to. Just because you can get away with something doesn't > >mean it's the right thing to do. Making a copy for personal research > >is allowed under the law (in the "Fair Use" clause) but taking that > >copy and giving it to someone else ("publishing" or "distributing") > >is not allowed, whether one tries to make a profit from it or not. > >The sense of the law is that whether you make a profit or not, you > >could be denying the author or publisher their rightful profit by > >making it unnecessary for another reader to buy the work. > > > >Now, in the case of the PRA publications, there are not profits > >involved, but there are costs. The back issues of Pennington > >Pedigrees are expensive to print and distribute. There IS discussion > >ongoing about how to make information from back issues available at > >little or no cost to those interested, but it will take some time to > >work out the details. One complication is that to observe the law, > >permission should be obtained from all the authors (or the authors' > >heirs) to republish their work under the new plan. That's quite a > >task, as you might imagine. But publishing is not a trivial > >undertaking if it's done right. Another complication is that even > >using electronic publishing and volunteer labor, there are some costs > >involved in producing PRA literature, and membership dues alone do > >not cover them. Maybe you can make some suggestions about how PP > >articles could be distributed in a way that (1) doesn't violate the > >authors' rights and (2) doesn't cost more than is feasible. Other > >people in the PRA are working to make this happen, and I'm sure your > >help would be welcome, too. > > > >Katherine > > > > > >>Katherine Cochrane wrote: > >> > > >> > Sue, > >> > > >> > So, because it is inconvenient for you, you advocate breaking >the law? > >> > > >> > Katherine > >> > > >> > >Hello, > >> > >I would like to thank all of the wonderful people that offered >their > >> > >help when I recently emailed a plea for some of the information >in the > >> > >older issues of Pennington Pedigrees. Today I got that >material from > >> > >one of the Pennington angels, and it was so exciting to read >through > >> > >what some of the previous researchers had to say about the >family. An > >> > >unexpected surprise was some information on another of my >husband's > >> > >lines. You just never know what you may find! > >> > > > >> > >I did receive one email telling me that the information could >not be > >> > >sent due to copyright laws. I think that the Pennington >officers, or > >> > >the membership as a whole, needs to re-think their policy here. >Most > >> > >researchers "share" their information. I've run across very >few that > >> > >are only "takers." > >> > >That information in the older issues, for the most part, is >completely > >> > >lost to new members. Of course, they can purchase all issues >that might > >> > >contain a few pages, but at what cost? > >> > > > >> > >Here's what the problems boils down to: As a member, who paid >money to > >> > >join, I was unable to obtain the information about my group >because of > >> > >copyright laws. But any non-member can walk into any library >where > >> > >issues might be located, and can Xerox just as many pages as >they wish. > >> > >No problem. I often go to the State Archives here in GA., and >there is > >> > >usually a line at the Xerox machine. People Xerox from books >and > >> > >periodicals all the day long. So, isn't there a problem with >how this > >> > >is being handled? Is this fair to people who pays dues to join >your > >> > >organization? > >> > > > >> > >Just a little something you might want to think about, and come >up with > >> > >a plan for the benefit of your members. Again, thanks for all >of the > >> > >help, and have a Merry Christmas! > >> > >Sue > >> > >==== PRA Mail List -- Visit our Web Site at > >> > > http://www.penningtonresearch.org > >> > >NOTE: All material submitted to this list may be used on the >PRA web site > >> > >or in other PRA publications, with proper credit to the author. > >> > >__________________________________________________________ > >> > > List hosted by SOHOWeb.net -- The Small Business IPP. > >> > >Our goal: your success. Find out more at http://sohoweb.net > >> > > or via e-mail at [email protected] > >> > > >> > ==== PENNINGTON Mailing List ==== > >> > Do not post virus warnings on this list. > >> > Practice safe e-mail habits and only open attachments you are >expecting > >> > For addition virus info see >http://www.symantec.com/us.index.html or > >> > http://www.mcafee.com/ > >> > >>I have a good friend who is married to a lawyer. What he said was >that > >>if you are not copying it to claim as your own, and you don't intend >to > >>turn around and make a profit from it, you're fine. I am not >writing a > >>book. I do not intend to sell the information. And when I see >people > >>lined up at Xerox machines, do you advocate eliminating that? I >like to > >>have material at home in front of me when I'm working, to compare >it, > >>etc. Sometimes, if you have a lot of information spread out in >front of > >>you, you sometimes see something that you had missed previously. >It's > >>great when that light bulb comes on. So, no, I am not telling >anyone to > >>make copies and sell them, or claim them as their own. > >>Sue > >> > >> > >>==== PENNINGTON Mailing List ==== > >>To search the archives of this mail list see > >>http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl > >>The NEW Pennington Research Association Web Site > >>http://penningtonresearch.org Update your bookmark! > > > > > >==== PENNINGTON Mailing List ==== > >The Pennington Research Association Web Site > >http://penningtonresearch.org > >for subscribe and unsub instructions, > >follow the links to e-mail group. > > > > >==== PENNINGTON Mailing List ==== >Happy Holidays