Thanks, we wondered where the name originated. -----Original Message----- From: Roger <rbstorm@becon.org> To: PENNA-DUTCH-L@rootsweb.com <PENNA-DUTCH-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 10:44 PM Subject: Re: [PADutch] Definitions of Pa. Dutch culled from the web >Kitchener here is a city. >Roger Storm >----- Original Message ----- >From: Betty Blair <blair8535@nbn.net> >To: <PENNA-DUTCH-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 9:04 PM >Subject: Re: [PADutch] Definitions of Pa. Dutch culled from the web > > >| Roger, >| >| Did your Kitchener family move back to PA, perhaps under >| the name Kitchen? I know someone researching the names >| Kitchen which was to have been Kitchener. >| >| Betty Blair >| >| -----Original Message----- >| From: Roger <rbstorm@becon.org> >| To: PENNA-DUTCH-L@rootsweb.com <PENNA-DUTCH-L@rootsweb.com> >| Date: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 8:45 PM >| Subject: Re: [PADutch] Definitions of Pa. Dutch culled from the web >| >| >| >I'm Canadian and PA Dutch. >| >Having trouble with the statement presented here. My ancestors left the >Penn >| >area during the American Revolution to travel to Canada because they were >| >having trouble with the English? These people are called United Empire >| >Loyalists (UEL). >| >Then why go to Canada that was controlled by the English? I think that >| >American patriotism is turning this statement around. They refused to >give >| >allegiance to the Yankees so they left for Canada and their lands were >| >confiscated by the Americans. We PA's are all through Canada but the >| >Kitchener >| >area has a large Amish community that still use horse and buggies >| >As an interesting addage to this about 5 years ago the U.S. government >tried >| >to inflict their authority on Canadian companies with some assets in the >| >States. They were threatening to confiscate these assets from any company >| >that was doing business with Cuba. An elected Member of Parliament >| >retailiated by tabling a bill confiscating all assets of American >companies >| >doing business in Canada until all United Empire Loyalists descendants >were >| >compensated for any lost property during the American Revolution. Niether >| >bill was passed or made into law. >| >Roger Storm >| > >| >----- Original Message ----- >| >From: Betty Blair <blair8535@nbn.net> >| >To: <PENNA-DUTCH-L@rootsweb.com> >| >Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 5:57 PM >| >Subject: Re: [PADutch] Definitions of Pa. Dutch culled from the web >| > >| > >| >| I have been told they did move to Canada because they >| >| did not condone war and the English did confiscated their >| >| homes and goods when they did not swear allegiance. >| >| But I don't know for certain. >| >| >| >| -----Original Message----- >| >| From: Pat Ratcliff <pratclif@topsurf.com> >| >| To: PENNA-DUTCH-L@rootsweb.com <PENNA-DUTCH-L@rootsweb.com> >| >| Date: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 2:00 PM >| >| Subject: Re: [PADutch] Definitions of Pa. Dutch culled from the web >| >| >| >| >| >| >Thanks for clarifying this. Are there any records of Pennsylvania >Dutch >| >| >migrating to Canada? My Gra(y)bills were listed as from Holland when >an >| >| >ancestor answered a census taker about where his family came from. He >| >| >told them that they were Pennsylvania Dutch. >| >| > >| >| >Pat Ratcliff >| >| >Baumholder, Germany >| >| >Researching >| >| >>Ratcliff/Grabill/Button/DeWitt/Hicks/Liebler/Tuttle/Main/Touchstone/Butt >| >| >s/Knight/Clough/Worthley/Yarrow/Burchett >| >| >http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/r/a/t/Patricia-Louise-Ratcliff >| >| >----- Original Message ----- >| >| >From: <MarkleVon@aol.com> >| >| >To: <PENNA-DUTCH-L@rootsweb.com> >| >| >Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 4:58 AM >| >| >Subject: [PADutch] Definitions of Pa. Dutch culled from the web >| >| > >| >| > >| >| >> >| >| >> >| >| >> >| >| >> >| >| >> >| >| >> PENNSYLVANIA DUTCH: >| >| >> Do not look for them in Dutch records. They are Germans and were >| >| >Lutherans. >| >| >> German girls were often given their mother's name plus one of their >| >| >own, the >| >| >> latter usually a godmother. Pennsylvania Dutch were also German >| >| >speaking >| >| >> Swiss and some French Huguenot. The Germans and Swiss, even then, >| >| >spoke >| >| >> different dialects of German. They were not only Lutherans, but also >| >| >German >| >| >> Reformed, and pietists such as Moravians, Mennonites, Amish, and the >| >| >various >| >| >> Brethren groups, including the ones known as Dunkers. >| >| >> >| >| >> The term "Pennsylvania Dutch," refers not to immigrants from the >| >| >Netherlands, >| >| >> nor the native tongue of Holland. Instead, the phrase was first >| >| >applied to >| >| >> German-speaking Deutschlanders who arrived from Europe in the late >| >| >eighteenth >| >| >> century and settled in Southeastern Pennsylvania counties. Several >| >| >theories >| >| >> exist on the accepted definition of "Pennsylvania Dutch" as a >| >| >descendant of >| >| >> the original German settlers in Pennsylvania. In the fifteenth and >| >| >sixteenth >| >| >> centuries, the English referred to all people of germanic heritage >as >| >| >Dutch >| >| >> regardless of whether they came from the Netherlands or Germany. >| >| >"Deutsche" >| >| >> is the German word for German, and a linguistic corruption could >have >| >| >> resulted in the designation. Moreover, most German immigrants sailed >| >| >to >| >| >> America from Dutch ports of Rotterdam and Amsterdam, which may have >| >| >lead to >| >| >> the confusion. Language spoken by these Pennsylvanians is a dialect >(a >| >| >> regional variety) of German, and is not a broken form of German, nor >| >| >pidgin >| >| >> (a simplified speech) or creole (a language evolved from pidgin). >| >| >> >| >| >> >| >| >> Q. Who are the Pennsylvania Dutch? >| >| >> A. The Pennsylvania Dutch are not even Dutch at all. They are not >from >| >| >> the country that we know today as the Netherlands. Some say that the >| >| >> Pennsylvania Dutch should be more properly known as Pennsylvania >| >| >German. >| >| >> Deutsch means German and the early English in America corrupted the >| >| >term >| >| >> Deutsch to Dutch. The term German though had a different meaning >| >| >before 1800. >| >| >> The Germans were not members of a formal country at that time, but >| >| >were a >| >| >> loose collection of principalities, free cities, protectorates and >| >| >> confederations. The country that we know today as Germany came into >| >| >being in >| >| >> 1848 with the unification process starting around 1800. German areas >| >| >before >| >| >> 1800 included areas that are now part of Poland, the Czech Republic, >| >| >> Switzerland, Russia, France and other areas as well as Germany. A >more >| >| >formal >| >| >> definition of Pennsylvania Dutch then are those that came to America >| >| >from >| >| >> those areas where the German language was spoken before 1800. Those >| >| >that came >| >| >> after 1800 are usually referred to as Pennsylvania Germans or just >| >| >German >| >| >> immigrants. >| >| >> >| >| >> <!--StartFragment-->"Pennsylvania Dutchmen can be either German, >| >| >Swiss, >| >| >> Alsatian, or even Holland Dutchmen , and they can live most >anywhere. >| >| >What >| >| >> makes them Pennsylvania Dutch is the fact that they arrived in >| >| >Philadelphia >| >| >> no later than 1808 (which is when the unification of Germany had >| >| >begun) and >| >| >> lived for a time in Pennsylvania before moving on--usually to MD, >VA, >| >| >WV, or >| >| >> further south, or to the midwest. Before 1808 any arriving European >of >| >| >> Germanic language and culture bore no allegiance to a German >| >| >government or >| >| >> flag--only to a culture. They considered themselves to be >| >| >Pennsylvanians and >| >| >> NOT Germans--but they did call themselves Deutschmen! People >arriving >| >| >after >| >| >> 1808 are more correctly called German-Americans." <!--EndFragment--> >| >| >> >| >| >> >| >| >> Who are the Amish? Are they the same as the Pennsylvania Dutch? >| >| >> >| >| >> The Amish are a religious group who live in settlements in 22 states >| >| >and >| >| >> Ontario, Canada. The oldest group of Old Order Amish, about >16-18,000 >| >| >people >| >| >> live in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. The Amish stress humility, >| >| >family and >| >| >> community, and separation from the world. >| >| >> Although Lancaster Amish are Pennsylvania Dutch, all Pennsylvania >| >| >Dutch are >| >| >> not Amish. The Pennsylvania Dutch are natives of Central >Pennsylvania, >| >| >> particularly Lancaster and its surrounding counties. Unlike the >Amish, >| >| >they >| >| >> are not all one religion. Instead, their common bond is a mainly >| >| >German >| >| >> background (Pennsylvania Dutch is actually Pennsylvania Deutsch, or >| >| >German). >| >| >> They also have Welsh, English, Scottish, Swiss, and French ancestry >| >| >> >| >| >> >| >| >> >| >| >> ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== >| >| >> New lists and web sites that are about the PA DUTCH >| >| >> are gladly advertised here. >| >| >> >| >| >> >| >| >> ============================== >| >| >> Create a FREE family website at MyFamily.com! >| >| >> http://www.myfamily.com/banner.asp?ID=RWLIST2 >| >| >> >| >| > >| >| > >| >| >==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== >| >| >New lists and web sites that are about the PA DUTCH >| >| >are gladly advertised here. >| >| > >| >| > >| >| >============================== >| >| >Create a FREE family website at MyFamily.com! >| >| >http://www.myfamily.com/banner.asp?ID=RWLIST2 >| >| > >| >| >| >| >| >| ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== >| >| Welcome to our list! We are always friendly here. >| >| >| >| >| >| ============================== >| >| Visit Ancestry's Library - The best collection of family history >| >| learning and how-to articles on the Internet. >| >| http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library >| >| >| > >| > >| > >| >==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== >| >Abbreviations---PD=Pennsylvania Dutch, PMH=Pennsylvania Mennonite >Heritage magazine, MFH=Mennonite family History magazine, MRJ=Mennonite >Research Journal, LMHS=Lancaster Mennonite Hist. Society. >| > >| > >| >============================== >| >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 >| >Source for Family History Online. Go to: >| >http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB >| > >| >| >| ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== >| You have a friend in Pennsylvania... >| >| >| ============================== >| Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! >| http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp >| > > >==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== >New lists and web sites that are about the PA DUTCH >are gladly advertised here. > > >============================== >Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp >