Kitchener here is a city. Roger Storm ----- Original Message ----- From: Betty Blair <blair8535@nbn.net> To: <PENNA-DUTCH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 9:04 PM Subject: Re: [PADutch] Definitions of Pa. Dutch culled from the web | Roger, | | Did your Kitchener family move back to PA, perhaps under | the name Kitchen? I know someone researching the names | Kitchen which was to have been Kitchener. | | Betty Blair | | -----Original Message----- | From: Roger <rbstorm@becon.org> | To: PENNA-DUTCH-L@rootsweb.com <PENNA-DUTCH-L@rootsweb.com> | Date: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 8:45 PM | Subject: Re: [PADutch] Definitions of Pa. Dutch culled from the web | | | >I'm Canadian and PA Dutch. | >Having trouble with the statement presented here. My ancestors left the Penn | >area during the American Revolution to travel to Canada because they were | >having trouble with the English? These people are called United Empire | >Loyalists (UEL). | >Then why go to Canada that was controlled by the English? I think that | >American patriotism is turning this statement around. They refused to give | >allegiance to the Yankees so they left for Canada and their lands were | >confiscated by the Americans. We PA's are all through Canada but the | >Kitchener | >area has a large Amish community that still use horse and buggies | >As an interesting addage to this about 5 years ago the U.S. government tried | >to inflict their authority on Canadian companies with some assets in the | >States. They were threatening to confiscate these assets from any company | >that was doing business with Cuba. An elected Member of Parliament | >retailiated by tabling a bill confiscating all assets of American companies | >doing business in Canada until all United Empire Loyalists descendants were | >compensated for any lost property during the American Revolution. Niether | >bill was passed or made into law. | >Roger Storm | > | >----- Original Message ----- | >From: Betty Blair <blair8535@nbn.net> | >To: <PENNA-DUTCH-L@rootsweb.com> | >Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 5:57 PM | >Subject: Re: [PADutch] Definitions of Pa. Dutch culled from the web | > | > | >| I have been told they did move to Canada because they | >| did not condone war and the English did confiscated their | >| homes and goods when they did not swear allegiance. | >| But I don't know for certain. | >| | >| -----Original Message----- | >| From: Pat Ratcliff <pratclif@topsurf.com> | >| To: PENNA-DUTCH-L@rootsweb.com <PENNA-DUTCH-L@rootsweb.com> | >| Date: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 2:00 PM | >| Subject: Re: [PADutch] Definitions of Pa. Dutch culled from the web | >| | >| | >| >Thanks for clarifying this. Are there any records of Pennsylvania Dutch | >| >migrating to Canada? My Gra(y)bills were listed as from Holland when an | >| >ancestor answered a census taker about where his family came from. He | >| >told them that they were Pennsylvania Dutch. | >| > | >| >Pat Ratcliff | >| >Baumholder, Germany | >| >Researching | >| >Ratcliff/Grabill/Button/DeWitt/Hicks/Liebler/Tuttle/Main/Touchstone/Butt | >| >s/Knight/Clough/Worthley/Yarrow/Burchett | >| >http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/r/a/t/Patricia-Louise-Ratcliff | >| >----- Original Message ----- | >| >From: <MarkleVon@aol.com> | >| >To: <PENNA-DUTCH-L@rootsweb.com> | >| >Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 4:58 AM | >| >Subject: [PADutch] Definitions of Pa. Dutch culled from the web | >| > | >| > | >| >> | >| >> | >| >> | >| >> | >| >> | >| >> PENNSYLVANIA DUTCH: | >| >> Do not look for them in Dutch records. They are Germans and were | >| >Lutherans. | >| >> German girls were often given their mother's name plus one of their | >| >own, the | >| >> latter usually a godmother. Pennsylvania Dutch were also German | >| >speaking | >| >> Swiss and some French Huguenot. The Germans and Swiss, even then, | >| >spoke | >| >> different dialects of German. They were not only Lutherans, but also | >| >German | >| >> Reformed, and pietists such as Moravians, Mennonites, Amish, and the | >| >various | >| >> Brethren groups, including the ones known as Dunkers. | >| >> | >| >> The term "Pennsylvania Dutch," refers not to immigrants from the | >| >Netherlands, | >| >> nor the native tongue of Holland. Instead, the phrase was first | >| >applied to | >| >> German-speaking Deutschlanders who arrived from Europe in the late | >| >eighteenth | >| >> century and settled in Southeastern Pennsylvania counties. Several | >| >theories | >| >> exist on the accepted definition of "Pennsylvania Dutch" as a | >| >descendant of | >| >> the original German settlers in Pennsylvania. In the fifteenth and | >| >sixteenth | >| >> centuries, the English referred to all people of germanic heritage as | >| >Dutch | >| >> regardless of whether they came from the Netherlands or Germany. | >| >"Deutsche" | >| >> is the German word for German, and a linguistic corruption could have | >| >> resulted in the designation. Moreover, most German immigrants sailed | >| >to | >| >> America from Dutch ports of Rotterdam and Amsterdam, which may have | >| >lead to | >| >> the confusion. Language spoken by these Pennsylvanians is a dialect (a | >| >> regional variety) of German, and is not a broken form of German, nor | >| >pidgin | >| >> (a simplified speech) or creole (a language evolved from pidgin). | >| >> | >| >> | >| >> Q. Who are the Pennsylvania Dutch? | >| >> A. The Pennsylvania Dutch are not even Dutch at all. They are not from | >| >> the country that we know today as the Netherlands. Some say that the | >| >> Pennsylvania Dutch should be more properly known as Pennsylvania | >| >German. | >| >> Deutsch means German and the early English in America corrupted the | >| >term | >| >> Deutsch to Dutch. The term German though had a different meaning | >| >before 1800. | >| >> The Germans were not members of a formal country at that time, but | >| >were a | >| >> loose collection of principalities, free cities, protectorates and | >| >> confederations. The country that we know today as Germany came into | >| >being in | >| >> 1848 with the unification process starting around 1800. German areas | >| >before | >| >> 1800 included areas that are now part of Poland, the Czech Republic, | >| >> Switzerland, Russia, France and other areas as well as Germany. A more | >| >formal | >| >> definition of Pennsylvania Dutch then are those that came to America | >| >from | >| >> those areas where the German language was spoken before 1800. Those | >| >that came | >| >> after 1800 are usually referred to as Pennsylvania Germans or just | >| >German | >| >> immigrants. | >| >> | >| >> <!--StartFragment-->"Pennsylvania Dutchmen can be either German, | >| >Swiss, | >| >> Alsatian, or even Holland Dutchmen , and they can live most anywhere. | >| >What | >| >> makes them Pennsylvania Dutch is the fact that they arrived in | >| >Philadelphia | >| >> no later than 1808 (which is when the unification of Germany had | >| >begun) and | >| >> lived for a time in Pennsylvania before moving on--usually to MD, VA, | >| >WV, or | >| >> further south, or to the midwest. Before 1808 any arriving European of | >| >> Germanic language and culture bore no allegiance to a German | >| >government or | >| >> flag--only to a culture. They considered themselves to be | >| >Pennsylvanians and | >| >> NOT Germans--but they did call themselves Deutschmen! People arriving | >| >after | >| >> 1808 are more correctly called German-Americans." <!--EndFragment--> | >| >> | >| >> | >| >> Who are the Amish? Are they the same as the Pennsylvania Dutch? | >| >> | >| >> The Amish are a religious group who live in settlements in 22 states | >| >and | >| >> Ontario, Canada. The oldest group of Old Order Amish, about 16-18,000 | >| >people | >| >> live in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. The Amish stress humility, | >| >family and | >| >> community, and separation from the world. | >| >> Although Lancaster Amish are Pennsylvania Dutch, all Pennsylvania | >| >Dutch are | >| >> not Amish. The Pennsylvania Dutch are natives of Central Pennsylvania, | >| >> particularly Lancaster and its surrounding counties. Unlike the Amish, | >| >they | >| >> are not all one religion. Instead, their common bond is a mainly | >| >German | >| >> background (Pennsylvania Dutch is actually Pennsylvania Deutsch, or | >| >German). | >| >> They also have Welsh, English, Scottish, Swiss, and French ancestry | >| >> | >| >> | >| >> | >| >> ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== | >| >> New lists and web sites that are about the PA DUTCH | >| >> are gladly advertised here. | >| >> | >| >> | >| >> ============================== | >| >> Create a FREE family website at MyFamily.com! | >| >> http://www.myfamily.com/banner.asp?ID=RWLIST2 | >| >> | >| > | >| > | >| >==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== | >| >New lists and web sites that are about the PA DUTCH | >| >are gladly advertised here. | >| > | >| > | >| >============================== | >| >Create a FREE family website at MyFamily.com! | >| >http://www.myfamily.com/banner.asp?ID=RWLIST2 | >| > | >| | >| | >| ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== | >| Welcome to our list! We are always friendly here. | >| | >| | >| ============================== | >| Visit Ancestry's Library - The best collection of family history | >| learning and how-to articles on the Internet. | >| http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library | >| | > | > | > | >==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== | >Abbreviations---PD=Pennsylvania Dutch, PMH=Pennsylvania Mennonite Heritage magazine, MFH=Mennonite family History magazine, MRJ=Mennonite Research Journal, LMHS=Lancaster Mennonite Hist. Society. | > | > | >============================== | >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 | >Source for Family History Online. Go to: | >http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB | > | | | ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== | You have a friend in Pennsylvania... | | | ============================== | Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! | http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp |