Looking for information on this family. The farthest I could trace is Johannes Wetzel in Carbon County (born 1777). I believe him to have had Berks County connections. Maria

Any information regarding these families is needed to possibly connect two seemingly unrelated branches of the same name, but with different spellings. Of particular interest is the early to mid-1800's. Maria

A couple of public posts have questioned non-genealogical posts. Anyone with a question about appropriate content is referred to the <A HREF="http://membe rs.aol.com/PennaDutch/pennadutch.html">Penna-Dutch-L Home Page</A>. This webpage is to supplement this list. Longtime listmembers know that the food, warsh day, dutchisms et. al. posts are not only OK but encouraged. The only posts which should not be made are those that intimidate others from making such posts and posts which are exclusively to advertise or promote or self-promote an individual or commercial enterprise. Posts advertising entities such as historical societies, LDS, etc. are OK The surnames list is edited and posted thru the link on the above website. I have made some errors and omissions. Please double check it and email the corrections to me at <A HREF="mailto:pennadutch@aol.com">pennadutch@aol.com</ A> . The list is more user friendly and is now in mulyiple segments rather than one document. Additional References, family histories etc. have been added to those pages. The references page has links to the "new" lancaster-york magazine ads page and also has a link to a "new" page called historical excerpts and extracts. On that page I have posted the 8 part "account of an unknown palatine, 1711" which was posted to the list last April. Visit the webpage to see these items. rod

Hi! I need a recipe for ripe tomato catsup using the end of the season ripe tomatoes, vinegar, onions and I don't know what kind of spices or the amounts of these foods. I don't know if it had cabbage in it. I doubt it. My grandmother, who was PD, made when my Mom was a little girl and my Mother is 92. Thanks, -- Mary Hicks mlhicks@ne.infi.net

Cheri, Try the webpage at http://www.kalglo.com/padutch.htm for a good explanation of the "Pennsylvania Dutch."

looking for HESS researchers, in particular descendants of Hans HESS of the conestoga/pequa area of Lancaster twp. I am interested in his female descendants and any elaboration on the relationships of the persons buried in the Hans HESS farm graveyard. thanks rod

In the 1850 Conestoga twp, lancaster county mary GOCHENOUR age 14 was living in the home of Samuel STAUFFER age 61 and his wife Rachel age 63. Apparently dau Elizabeth STAUFFER age 37 was living in the home as well as John HONAMAN? age 36 born in Germany. Is anyone researching these Conestoga STAUFFERs? thanks rod

I hope old-time list members will not mind if I repeat this post every so often for new members, when the topic resurfaces. I always feel obliged to set the record straight on this one, especially since we do call ourselves the Pennsylvania Dutch list! The term "Pennsylvania Dutch" does not come from a corruption of the German word "Deutsch." Instead, it represents a survival of an otherwise archaic meaning of the English word "Dutch." In the eighteenth century (and to a lesser extent, into the nineteenth), "Dutch" referred to the language and people of a region encompassing present-day Germany, Switzerland, Austria, the Netherlands, and some neighboring areas. In other words, the term encompassed both "German" and "Dutch" in their modern sense. The languages are really very closely related. "High Dutch" referred to the language spoken in the southern parts of what is now Germany, as well as in Alsace and the Alpine regions. "Low Dutch" referred to languages of the generally low-lying areas of northern Germany, the Netherlands, and Flanders. (We now call the dialects of northern Germany "Low German," a language much closer to modern Netherlands Dutch than to the dialects of southern Germany.) Gradually, as the modern state of Germany was consolidated, the word "Dutch" came to be restricted to the language and people of the Netherlands. The word "German," which had been used inconsistently through the eighteenth century, became the term for the people of the German state, and for the language and dialects of northern and southern Germany. The synonymous terms "Pennsylvania Dutch" and "Pennsylvania German" are both documented as early as the eighteenth century. At the time, "Dutch" was a perfectly valid designation for immigrants from what is now Germany. For more on the history of the English word "Dutch," see the entry in the Oxford English Dictionary—more interesting reading than you might expect! Timothy Shipe timothy-shipe@uiowa.edu

Suppose that's "rivel" > ---------- > From: chiprecious@juno.com[SMTP:chiprecious@juno.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 1997 12:53 PM > To: PENNA-DUTCH-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: PENNA-DUTCH-D Digest V97 #148 > > Hi > My grandma Atwood was PA-Dutch, and she made what she called Ribble > Soup, > any of you know how to make it. > > Joyce >

Hi all ...all this great talk about the PD goodies ... ...does anyone else rember "Pickleverst (sp)and Kale... Loved the pickleverst..hated the Kale...<grin> ...Also does any one remember heavy starching those hand made "Doilleys(sp)... those things that went under anything that went on the tables or counters of highly polished wood... ...they had to be "warshed" every week and starched and draped over the gallon coffiee cans and fluffed as they dried so they would have the wavey look on the outside and the flat surface in the center... ...and those balls of (I thought string) twine that those little silver knitting type needles (shorter and had a hook like tip) clattered as those nimble fingers made the most amazing designs and various shapes... some for the head rest portion of the chairs... so the "Bear Grease" on your head would not stain the chair... to even table cloths that when they were put on the table the polished wood under made the fantastic design show thru... ...Wow...I havent thought of that stuff for years... +-----------------------------------------------------------+ | Ed Hake bear@centercomp.com | | Alden-VT,NY,MN/ Denney/Denny-VA,KY,IN,OR/ Farwell-NY,MN/ | | Hoech/Höch/Hock/Hake-Hanau H.Germany,PA,WI,MN/ | | Hathaway-MN,WA,OR,Australia/ Hicklin-VA,IN,OR/ | | King-IN,OR/ Walling/Wallen-MA,CT,NY,VA,IL,OR/ | | http://www.centercomp.com/bear/ | +-----------------------------------------------------------+

Yvonne & Elizabeth Ann Clopper Troxell (Mrs Jay, of Hagerstown) Yvonne, my third cousin EACT, above (& also a Shank), advises in email to be forwarded to you that you and I have a mistake at parents of Henry Hartle b 1826. Your Joseph Clopper RIN-2893 shd be a Jos. Trovinger, b 11 dec 1790, WashCoMd & yr Elizabeth Trovinger RIN-2893 shd be Eliz Clopper, b 11 Sept 1804, AntrimFranC New Eliz Clopper is d/o my RIN 85 Heinrich Klapper Clopper, Jr. b bef 1775, Leitersburg, WashCoMd New Jos Trovinger has f = Christopher-ca 1753, m Barbara Kimmel. Family has 10 chdn & EACT has dobs for all. Dau of new couple is therefore: Ann Malinda TROVINGER, 26 Aug 1836. EACT has provided me with full sibling sets for both Jos & Christopher Trovinger famlies and since Elizabeth T & I share gf Heinrich we also have sibling set for him which you have in my PAF.ged. Let us know if you are interested in the additional Trovinger data. (You should have the Clopper linkage.) Jack in Alexandria.

Louise, I'm with you. I'm much more interested in the family life of my ancestors whom I can identify, than just trying to learn names. Pat in Fort Wayne Louise wrote: > > If you are of PD heritage, this IS about genealogy. This list is very > diversified, and your ancestors used these terms, and ate these foods.. > isn't it rather interestiing to learn more than just the "names and > dates" of the preceding generations? After all, this was a strong group > of folks, and many of the old traditions and foods survive to this > generation, and, I believe, will survive for many more. > I hope that this list never changes; I have learned more about my > ancestors than just their names... provided here is a glimpse into how > they survived from day to day, and how 'tough' they were! > Hope that you can learn to adapt the information that's shared here into > a more knowledgable history of your own family, and .... lighten up! > Regards, > Louise > > Thomas Shontz wrote: > > > I agree-all these messages, and none about genealogy! > > > > Tom > > On Wed, 03 Sep 1997 20:55:33 -0700 Avril Yoachim <ayoachim@thecni.com> > > > > writes: > > >Did I miss a change in the content for this mail list? > > >Is genealogy (tracing of family roots) no longer the subject for > > >Penna-Dutch? > > >Just wondering. > > >I really think it's a great idea to have one mail list specifically > > >for > > >recipes, sayings, and other paraphanelia and then another list for > > >surname searches. This way a person could join one or the other (or > > >both) depending on their interest. > > >Avril > > > > > >

That poem brings back memories. We raised hogs. They helped pay my way to college. Mom used to say,"We must get an early start for worship on Sundays cause you never know when the pigs will get out." Many a Sunday morning we would be dressed for church and discover the pigs had gotten out. I'm not sure what good it did to get an early start. The pigs always seemed to get out at the worst times. Gerald Rhoades

My understanding is that Pennsylvania Dutch refers to those German-speaking immigrants to Pennsylvania who came in the 18th Century and their descendants. "Dutch" in former English usage meant "German." My father who was born in 1915 in Indiana couldn't talk plain as a small child, i. e. he was "dutchy." He always went by the nickname Dutch and signed his name W.H. "Dutch" Kreisher. Everybody in Frankfort, Indiana, understood what it meant. Our schools don't do a very good job of teaching us English and I believe that is why so many people are confused and believe that "Dutch" only refers to the Netherlands and the northern part of Belgium. I am proud to call myself a Pennsylvania Dutchman even if it's not 100% accurate as I am the 5th generation since Reading, Berks County. Ken Kreisher ---------- : From: Cheri McElroy <cmcelroy@mexia.com> : To: PENNA-DUTCH-L@rootsweb.com : Subject: Penna-Dutch meaning : Date: Thursday, September 04, 1997 07:46 : : Hi, : : I hope I don't sound ignorant, but can someone define : "Pennasylvania-Dutch" for me? Are the customs and names of the P-D : derived from Germany, or Holland, or a bit of both? : : Thank you, : Cheri Lee McElroy : cmcelroy@mexia.com : http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/2840 :

From my PA German Dictionary, the words for understand are--1. begreife; 2. nei/sehne; 3. vernemme; 4. verschteh. Number 4 is the most familiar to me.

>Hi >My grandma Atwood was PA-Dutch, and she made what she called Ribble Soup, >any of you know how to make it. > >Joyce Of course, rivels!! They can be added to many different types of soup, but the most common is a cream or milk-based soup. All they are are tiny dough-balls!! For rivels take about 1/2 c. flour per egg - rub the two together & add about half as much milk to make a non-sticky dough. Cut through this mixture with two forks for a while. Form into balls about the size of a cherry stone & drop into the boiling soup mixture. Make sure you stir so they don't pack together! Then cook about 5 minutes with the lid on the pot. I guess it's most popular in a potato soup, but I've used them in place of the noodles in chicken-corn soup. -Linnea P.S. Can you tell I got this from an old PD woman? They never write things down!! <G> P.P.S. About the same recipe for bott boi, except you roll & cut into noodles, then add to the boiling mixture!

Looking for family of Sara WILSON LONG B:1906 children: Robert Long Ernest Long Doris Long (Schardinger) twins 1948 girls Rose long

in PA, I have collaterals that married into the LINE line, a Martin LINE, who I believe(without looking at my notes), was the son of Jacob LINE. This LINE seems sometimes to be written as VINE and FINE, in fact in a will of a father in law, I thought it was until I found it in a later document(deed) and it is definitely LINE. In this same collateral grouping, WARNER/WERNER/VERNER/VARNER married into it. This is in Luzerne Co, PA, Salem twp area >___________ >X-Message: #8 >Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 12:02:09 -0500 >From: wterrell1@juno.com (w Terrell) >To: pdale@sprynet.com >Cc: PENNA-DUTCH-L@rootsweb.com >Message-ID: <19970903.164447.13622.1.WTERRELL1@juno.com> >Subject: WARNER > >Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 11:40:31 -0500 >Subject: Re: WARNER >Message-ID: <19970902.204108.12390.1.WTERRELL1@juno.com> >References: <199709012214.PAA28316@m3.sprynet.com> >X-Status: Read >X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 >X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-4 > >Paul: I have a ggm Mary WARNER 1798 TN-1857 MO married John FINE; and >g/aunt Martha Jane (Polly)WARNER circa 1825 AR- before 1857 AR died of >typhoid or diphtheria, married John Wilson FINE. Do you have any >connections? >Thanks, Win in MN wterrell1@juno.com Sincerely Carolyn Leverich Atkinson / email: catkinsn@ecity.net 1602 York /In replying send copy of our correspondence. Des Moines, IA 50316 Provider has occasional bouncing problems, please resend later/next day. __________________________________________________ To join the JACKSON/CLAY/OVERTON CO, TN List, email catkinsn@ecity.net with JACKSON/CLAY/OVERTON CO, TN in subject. ___________________________________________________

Hi, I PA I have also found that Letters of Administration also pertain to the oversight of a minor. My gggrandfather was a child when his grandfather died. Child was in IL, grandfather in PA. The child was left the estate of his father as he was also deceased--lucky for me, the father was alive one month before the writing of the will, and so is listed--that was close!! Unfortunately--I have not found anyone able to get copies of the actual documents in Luzerne Co,(any volunteers??), so I only have the book extracts.(I would love to know the exact dates and times etc of the giving of the money, as I know Richard went back to PA for schooling, at least according to stories written by his grandchildren. He supposedly studied law, but there is a 15 year period blank in his life, and I believe some of it is in PA, and cannot find him. >From: jrinscheid@lucent.com >To: <HBGood@aol.com>, >Subject: RE: who does inventories and witnesses wills? > >I had a similar query - mine was "what does 'Letter of Administration >granted to' mean?" > >A cousin of mine who is a retired judge clarified: > >" In Pennsylvania, letters of administration are >issued to the person who will be the administrator of a deceased's >estate. However, there is normally not a will involved. If a person >dies with a will and names an executor, then the executor is issued >"letters testamentary" to carry out his or her duties. One can normally >think of an aministrator as a person who is administering the estate of >a person who died without a will while an executor does the same task >for a person who died with a will. Sometimes you will see the term >"administrator(trix) d.b.n." or "adminstrator(trix) d.b.n.c.t.a.". This >occurs when the named executor in a will either does not take out >letters testamentary or has taken them out but either resigned, was >removed, or died during the course of the administration of the estate. >Then the replacement administrator is issued the letters previously >mentioned and assumes that title in administering the estate." > >This doesn't directly answer your question, but it may help a bit. I've >seen a lot of cases where a child or a son-in-law are given the letters >of administration and a child tends to be the one named as an executor >as well. (OK, I don't have a lot of data, only several dozen examples, >so maybe I am extrapolating...) > > - Jeff R > ---------- Sincerely Carolyn Leverich Atkinson / email: catkinsn@ecity.net 1602 York /In replying send copy of our correspondence. Des Moines, IA 50316 Provider has occasional bouncing problems, please resend later/next day. __________________________________________________ To join the JACKSON/CLAY/OVERTON CO, TN List, email catkinsn@ecity.net with JACKSON/CLAY/OVERTON CO, TN in subject. ___________________________________________________

Well Avril, I guess you just have to be careful where you walk, to make sure you don't step in somethin'. Nicht War? Cheers, > ---------- > From: Avril Yoachim[SMTP:ayoachim@thecni.com] > Reply To: ayoachim@thecni.com > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 1997 8:51 AM > To: weeez@concentric.net > Cc: PENNA-DUTCH-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: Recipes & PA expressions ?? > > Oh, so I didn't miss a message on the change of content for this list. > Gee, I only asked a simple question, about the tracing of family > roots. > I don't think it's a question of me needing to *lighten up*. > I would love to know the history of my ancestors - the stories, the > hardships, the way of living, and yes, even the food. But I guess I > made a mistake and was thinking that sort of history would have taken > place more than 50 years ago. Ed Book submitted a letter to the list > on > the possible German origins of the words that have been passed down > through the generations...I saved that. It is excellent. I myself > found a wonderful book *Pioneer Gardens at Black Creek Pioneer > Village* > which describes the gardening techniques and the usages of plants by > the > early settlers of Ontario....the Pennsylvania Dutch that migrated to > Ontario.....200years ago. So my interest is more than just names and > dates. > I guess I didn't think of *warsh* as being historical or PA Dutch > since > the maritimes (Nova Scotia) has always pronouned it that way. > My apologies > Avril > > > > If you are of PD heritage, this IS about genealogy. This list is > very > > diversified, and your ancestors used these terms, and ate these > foods.. > > isn't it rather interestiing to learn more than just the "names and > > dates" of the preceding generations? After all, this was a strong > group > > of folks, and many of the old traditions and foods survive to this > > generation, and, I believe, will survive for many more. > > I hope that this list never changes; I have learned more about my > > ancestors than just their names... provided here is a glimpse into > how > > they survived from day to day, and how 'tough' they were! > > Hope that you can learn to adapt the information that's shared here > into > > a more knowledgable history of your own family, and .... lighten up! > > Regards, > > Louise > > > > Thomas Shontz wrote: > > > > > I agree-all these messages, and none about genealogy! > > > > > > Tom > > > On Wed, 03 Sep 1997 20:55:33 -0700 Avril Yoachim > <ayoachim@thecni.com> > > > > > > writes: > > > >Did I miss a change in the content for this mail list? > > > >Is genealogy (tracing of family roots) no longer the subject for > > > >Penna-Dutch? > > > >Just wondering. > > > >I really think it's a great idea to have one mail list > specifically > > > >for > > > >recipes, sayings, and other paraphanelia and then another list > for > > > >surname searches. This way a person could join one or the other > (or > > > >both) depending on their interest. > > > >Avril > > > > > > > > >