Can someone tell me which of the early German churches practiced Adult Baptism/ Thanks! MarilynT Researching: BINDER, ECKERT, ERNE, ESHELMAN, FORNEY, GROFF, GUTHARDT, JACK(s), KRICK, LINSENBIGLER, REMP, RUFFENER, SCHLONECKER, SMITH/SCHMIDT, SPOHN, STEFFY, STOUDEN, WAGNER, WHITEHEAD, CARPENTER/ZIMMERMAN ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== New? Looking for a quick connection? Visit the surnames list associated with this mail list at http://members.aol.com/PennaDutch/pdlsurnames.html

It's a good recipe, but the story is one of the famous "urban legends" (untrue) on the internet. It's been dormant for a while so I guess it's about time for it come "creeping out of its grave." This is the Nieman-Marcus site. Look for the "Cookie Monster" under Customer Service: http://www.neimanmarcus.com/ Try this site for more info on these kinds of things: http://www.kumite.com/myths/ Another one: http://www.realtime.net/~guppy/uls/legends.html > ---------- > From: Denn Bottorff[SMTP:bottorff@polarnet.com] > Sent: Friday, October 10, 1997 2:06 AM > To: PENNA-DUTCH-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Expensive Cookie Recipe > > Just in time for Christmas!! > > I received this from a friend who asked me to pass it along to > everyone I > >knew who had an E-mail address, what a better way to send it. > > >Subject: Cookie Recipe > > > >Neiman-Marcus Cookies > > > >THIS IS TRUE----PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ IT AND PLEASE SEND THIS > >TO EVERY SINGLE PERSON YOU KNOW WHO HAS AN E-MAIL ADDRESS....THIS IS > REALLY > >TERRIFIC. > > > >My daughter & I had just finished a salad at Neiman-Marcus Cafe in > Dallas & > >decided to have a small dessert. Because both of us are such cookie > lovers, > >we decided to try the "Neiman-Marcus Cookie." > > > >{EDITORIAL COMMENT: Neiman's is a VERY EXPENSIVE department store in > the > >States}. > >It was so excellent that I asked if they would give me the recipe and > the > >waitress said with a small frown, "I'm afraid not." > > > >Well, I said, would you let me buy the recipe? With a cute smile, she > said, > >"Yes." I asked how much, and she responded, "Only two fifty, it's a > great > >deal!" I said with approval, just add it to my tab. > > > >Thirty days later, I received my VISA statement from Neiman-Marcus > and > >it was $285.00. I looked again and I remembered I had only spent > $9.95 for > >two salads and about $20.00 for a scarf. As I glanced at the bottom > of the > >statement, it said, "Cookie Recipe - $250.00" > > > >That's outrageous!! > > > >I called Neiman's Accounting Dept. and told them the waitress said it > was > >"two-fifty," which clearly does not mean "two hundred and fifty > dollars" by > >any *POSSIBLE* interpretation of the phrase. > > > >Neiman-Marcus refused to budge. They would not refund my money, > because > >according to them, "What the waitress told you is not our problem. > You have > >already seen the recipe - we absolutely will not refund your money at > this > >point." I explained to her the criminal statutes which govern fraud > in > >Texas, I threatened to refer them to the Better Business Bureau and > the > >State's Attorney General for engaging in fraud. I was basically told, > "Do > >what you want, we don't give a crap, and we're not refunding your > money." I > >waited, thinking of how I could get even, or even try and get any of > my money > >back. I just said, "Okay, you folks got my $250, and > >now I'm going to have $250.00 worth of fun." I told her that I was > going to > >see to it that every cookie lover in the United States with an e-mail > account > >has a $250.00 cookie recipe from Neiman-Marcus...for free. > > > >She replied, "I wish you wouldn't do this." I said, "Well, you should > have > >thought of that before you ripped me off," and slammed down the phone > on her. > > > >So here it is!!! Please, please, please pass it on to everyone you > can > >possibly think of. I paid $250 for this...I don't want Neiman-Marcus > to ever > >get another penny off of this recipe.... > > > >(Recipe may be halved) > > > >2 cups butter > >4 cups flour > >2 tsp. soda > >2 cups sugar > >5 cups blended oatmeal (Measure oatmeal and blend in a blender to a > fine > >powder.) > >24 oz. chocolate chips > >2 cups brown sugar > >1 tsp. salt > >1- 8 oz. Hershey Bar (grated) > >4 eggs > >2 tsp. baking powder > >2 tsp. vanilla > >3 cups chopped nuts (your choice) > > > >Cream the butter and both sugars. Add eggs and vanilla; mix together > with > >flour, oatmeal, salt, baking powder, and soda. Add chocolate chips, > Hershey > >Bar and nuts. Roll into balls and place two inches apart on a cookie > sheet. > > > >Bake for 10 minutes at 375 degrees. Makes 112 cookies. > > > >Have fun!!! > > > >This is not a joke --- this is a true story. Ride free citizens! > > > ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== > Have you visited the webpage associated with this mail list? If not go > to http://members.aol.com/PennaDutch/pennadutch.html > >

In all fairness to Neiman-Marcus the story about the $250 cookie has been proven many times to be a hoax. It makes a nice story and the recipe is probably very good, but the story is baloney. Charles Johnson chasj@juno.com ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== Have you visited the webpage associated with this mail list? If not go to http://members.aol.com/PennaDutch/pennadutch.html

account of unknown palatine of 1711 continued-- In order that I may take up again my former thought, I desire to inform the reader how it fared with the rest of these in the camp in the taking of winter quarters. First, the Catholics in the remaining camps were separated from the Lutherans and Reformed, and for a few days they were encamped by themselves. Then the gracious will of the Queen was made known to them. If they would enter the Protestant fold, they would secure the royal favor and protection, but if they decided to cling to their idolatrous religion, they might as well make up their minds to return to the Fatherland at once. They should have their freewill in the matter, because, inasmuch as the English people were alarmed at the growth of the Papacy, they were obliged to be on their guard lest it should get too much power; they could hardly do otherwise. Whereupon 3584 catholics resolved to return to their homes again. After this resolution was made known, each of these persons received ten reichs gulden as expense money on their way, and were placed on eight ships that they might be carried to Holland. The 520 Catholics who remained in England, became Protestant; 322 becoming Lutherans and the rest Reformed. After this separation, the Middle camp also broke up and moved into the Redhouse, where the first ones had just quitted their quarters and sailed on the Thames to Battle Bridge to the warehouse of Mr. Charles Cox, with all their property. It was indeed a most excellent opportunity to pick out the Germans among them. The above named camp on Blackheath followed the Middle one into the Redhouse and then there were in all 17,000 souls to spend the winter together. In order that they might get along well, an overseer selected from their number belonging to a noble German family was given complete authority over them. He was made a general sanitary inspector and supervisor of the cooking booth. Continuous envy and contention arose among the women while cooking. One would say to another in a threatening tone,"you wicked beggar, get out of this place, this is my hole and you shall not cook here." then they would seize hold of each other by the hair and strike each other so that frequently the soup, meat and vegetables were spilt upon the ground, and it was evident that an overseer was needed. He took charge of the apartments of the women and put an end to their contentions. The Straw commissioners gave these poor people fresh straw every two weeks on which to lie down. He was also a coal distributor, since, as it was somewhat rainy about Christmas, the Queen allowed a distribution of coal by the ship load to the poor people, that they might warm themselves. The last of the camps to break up was the Camberwell which moved to Retriff. A few of them, as in the case of the Redhouse, stopped in seventh street, and several hundred in St. Stephen. Those who had some provisions, remained here and there in London after their own pleasure, since they could stop comfortably with their own people. Reaching the place of their entertainment, they were all so treated and accomodated, that no one could with reason complain of anything. Two hundred thousand pounds sterling or five millions, (?) the most gracious Queen Annie gave to us poor people. Upon reaching the ship which was going to Rotterdam, we were taken in the best manner from England, at the expense of the Queen, with bread, beer, butter, bacon and cheese and as God himself soon brought us over the sea, the Lord Commissioners were dispatched in the name of the Queen and the whole Parliament to congratulate us. After wishes of good luck had been given, each man recieved a nine pound loaf of bread, white as snow, and also a Reich gulden in money. We were then ordered to camp in the field and received weekly so much that every man could live respectably. All this they received from the Queen, besides what the princes, counts, barons, merchants and rich citizens daily spent for us. On many days thirty and even more wagons loaded with bread and cheese were brought into camp, where, there being no purchasers, these things were freely distributed. Besides this, many rich gentlemen broght 60 or 80 pounds or as many Reichsthalers and distributed them among the entire German people, and while doing so, said very modestly, "take this now, with my sympathy." Many thousands of naked, and also such as out of greed locked up their own clothing in their chests, and went about in rags, were clothed anew. A single business man, a Quaker, had for eight days cut up many wagon loads of cloth, for the naked ones. Another one bought out nearly all the shoemakers; even before, he had bought 32,000 pairs of shoes which he gave to the people. And still another distributed 18,489 shirts so that those who were ill-clad might go better dressed. It would be hard to say how much the court preacher, now an inspector at Magdeburg, John Tribekko, spent in behalf of Germans. On the whole our weak tongues can never tell the excellent deeds of charity which we Germans in England enjoyed. But sighing, we can only pray to God, that he may return it to them a thousand fold. And likewise, as pure wheat is never entirely without weeds, or seldom a herd which has not one sickly member, so also among these many rich benefactors there were at times wicked outcasts who made it all the more bitter for the Germans. But the trouble came mostly by means of those Catholics who we previously had with us. At one time, while we were still camping in the fields, there came more than 1800 English people, on a dark night, with scythes and other weapons to our camp, who desired to cut down all the Catholics. This, indeed, without doubt would have been accomplished had they not been with the Lutherans and Reformed. To this day, on December 4 (1711) the pope is burned in effigy in all the streets of the City of London, and in all England, showing thereby how favorable they must have been to the Catholics! Among the other dissolute outcasts there was a Presbyterian, born of the devil, a clerical, one devoid of all common sense, who had run away from Switzerland, and was now seeking to make it very bitter for these Germans. He represented to the Queen and to the Parliament as wearing blue-stockings and declaring that they should be allowed to perish like dogs. As he received but little attention, he placed himself behind the recruiting officers, and as if he had Royal authority, took away the finest and youngest boys as soldiers on the men of war and in other military service. he indulged in beer, tobacco, beer and whiskey from morning until night, and had like Sminderides for 20 years, or so long as he had been in England, never seen the sun rise or set, sober. In such prolonged carousal he pleased all the poor Englishmen. he took away the children from the poor Germans, and played with them as a Jew would do. For when a poor Englishman obtained a child to whom he promised to teach his profession, the Queen gave him five pounds sterling: when they had the money they supported the child for a week or two, but after that gave him blows instead of bread, so that because of his extreme hunger he was forced to run away. Finally, after such religious malice was discovered, it was made known to the public and upon the knowledge of this pharaoh-like oppression, there began the German emigration from England to other countries and islands, bringing them to dire distress. the beginning of the movement was made by those who went to Ireland, numbering 3688 persons. They were badly accomodated. they had to endure hunger and cold, keep several fast days per week, as they had nothing to eat. No one ever received anything he could call his own. He might go wheresoever he would, but he must remain, together with his own people, a slave and a bondsman. First those in Liverpool followed those who had gone over into Ireland at the breaking up of the camp. Or rather 30 families or 126 persons of those in Liverpool followed after them. They were excellent people, and artisans but were so well supported by their hard labor, that after they had consumed their own provisions they could drive away hunger. Sixteen families went into Sunderland, 120 miles from London, to a Prince who promised them so much ground, but did not keep his promise. instead, he made day laborers of them and at last even went so far as to make those who did not escape in the night, slaves, sending them to jamaica. Ten families proceeded to the West Country, otherwise called Plymouth, to earn their bread in the Alaunen mountains. They received plenty of work but little pay. Now an Englishman in those days received a Reich gulden for his days wages, but the Germans got only a half Kopfferstu:cke. thereupon they all turned their faces towards London, so that they might go back to Germany again. Two families or fourteen people went to a gentleman 40 miles from London, at a place called Northumberland, who received only one pound of salt weekly among them, and daily they received half a pound of bread. Besides this they received neither meat nor vegetables of any kind. One family numbering eight was taken to a certain gentleman in the country,who promised them golden mountains, but in reality compelled them to herd swine. the head of the family was a hunter and an excellent man of the Reformed religion, and whose name I could give for the information of his friends. But he has escaped with his wife and children, and with the others, who perhaps were not allowed to return to the Fatherland, went to New York. Eight hundred and forty-four poor persons from Switzerland were put on board a ship to sail to North Carolina, but were anchored for half a year at Portsmouth in the greatest hunger. 3086 persons were embarked on ten ships to be transported to New York, but they were already on the sea for eighteen weeks, from Christmas to Easter, and will leave port only with the fleet. it was their intention to enter some humble employment and if they could earn enough to buy property, they would become landholders. 1600 persons were packed on two ships to be go to the Scilly islands, but when the inhabitants of that place received news of their coming, they sent a woefully worded petition to Parliament stating they could not support themselves much less the Germans, who did not understand fishing and could not ward off hunger. After six weeks had passed they were set on land, and went to Germany again accompanied by their Lutheran pastor. Three hundred and twenty two young people went into the English military service. The English bought 141 children, boys and girls. Fifty six young persons were used as servants, because these were other families here and there that no one knew of, because they went out of the company without leaving their names. Of these there came back into Germany again, the following: I. 3548 on the 29th of September, 1708(1709?) went back to Fatherland again. II. 1600 who were to go to the Scilly island went back again III. The 746 who were to go ordered to go to Ireland, had to go to Germany. IV. 800 from Ireland came also upon German soil again. In a like manner all those who escaped from Plymouth, Sunderland and Liverpool, and other places were also sent out of England. In all, these numbered 6994 souls. To Ireland, North carolina, New York and other places 8213 were sent. This number must be added to those who had gone to Germany, making a total of 15,201. the whole number that came to England was 32,468, and subtracting from this total the before mentioned 15,201 there were in all 17,261 who died in London and other parts of England, not taking into account the 200 who went down with the ship and those who were buried at sea and in Holland. As long as the Germans were encamped, things went tolerably well in spite of the fact that most of the parents permitted their innocent children to become corrupt, and cared not if they died, not even going to their funerals. But there were other good people who buried them. To these funerals many hundred Englishmen went, both on foot and in wagons. Frequently the concourse made such a noise, both by the neighing of the horses, rattling of wheels and by their loud talking, that no one could hear the minister or schoolmaster who officiated. As those still living here moved into quarters, a hundred or more together, and lodged there, one could see among other things what these wicked people brought from Germany, who left their own people without counsel, help or comfort, to die like cattle. they did not bury their children decently but permitted them to be dragged along like carcasses. Ordinarily, at 2 o'clock in the afternoon, a signal was given to bury the dead, by means of sheep and cow bells, whereupon the men, two by two brought the corpse of an adult, hanging from a sort of a carrying frame, and these were followed by the corpses of the small and half grown children, borne upon the heads of women to the cemetery at Dertforth. Perhaps half a dozen old women accompanied these funeral representations. (Weiber die mit in Engeland Wu:rtz na:gelein in Carolin zulesan gekommen.) As soon as the procession reached the cemetery, the corpses were thrown into a hole in layers, like herring. First were laid the women and virgins; upon these men and young boys, and upon these were placed the children, lengthwise and crosswise, until the hole was full. Frequently it happened that when they carried out the dead and there were no ditches ready, they were put into coffins made of old boards and placed behind the encampment walls, from which they were taken by the dogs and entirely devoured.[-gantzlich aus den Sargen heraus nahmen und von ihnen Speisten.] Those who werein other quarters at the Redhouse, and remained with the Lutheran ministers, had it far better, for they were buried in a Christian manner, with beautiful hymns and a funeral panegyric. These services were usually conducted by Master George Hainer and the schoolmaster John George Tiltz. Rightly it was said of the Palatines, for so the Germans were commonly called in England, "you hit them but they do not feel it." For if the evil Spirirt choked and killed them, there was nothing but rejoicings and marriages among them. The before mentioned George Hainer himself joined 248 couples, and it is definitely not known how many were married by the others, namely by Master John Trebekko and Mr. Ruperti, before his arrival. 308 children were baptized by Mr. Hainer, five of whom were illegitimate, and thirteen were baptized at sea. Nor should the remarkable marriage act be passed over in silence, which Mr. Hager accomplished after his ordination. Truly, he who could have seen this marriage ceremony performed as I saw it, would have laughed until his belly shook. In the first place, as Mr. hager took his position in front of an old barrel full of cobbler's wax, and had mumbled a few words, a bridegroom came up who was lame in his left foot, accompanied by his bride who was lame in the right foot. truly they looked like the children of Vulcan. Along with these came another couple, a very loving pair. The bride was more than 60 years old and had a hundred thousand wrinkles, in which foxes and hares could have hidden themselves; in other respects she looked much like a stuck calf. The groom was 18 or 19 years old, not yet dry behind the ears. He supported himself at the girdle of the bride, much like a child when it is learning to walk. The third pair, however, looked a little more graceful. The groom on account of sickness, was so weak he could hardly stand. The bride had a large eye and a small one, and was barefoot and ragged. Meanwhile, she would cast furtive glances upon her beautiful "Corydon" like a cat upon a mouse. This most honorable couple wound up the company as they were all gathered around the barrel. The minister spoke a few words and they were all joined. Whereupon they all went away from each other, like goats when they go away from their shepherd, each to his own place. Now, at last, when everybody was married that could go or stand, their hopes were disappointed because Parliament would not give its consent to what the Queen had promised. Upon this, the preachers were ordered by the committee to make known in sermons and at prayer-meeting, that those who desired to return to the Fatherland, should so decide and give their names, for each one was to receive a pound sterling for the expenses of the journey. Upon this more than 900 people gathered together and returned again to Germany. The rest who remained in England, thought they would stay there, as it was a country in which the earth was so fruitful, that in many respects it could be compared to the promised land. in a word, it was an earthly Paradise. yet good and excellent as the land was, in spite of it all, the Germans were forced to make room and go again upom German soil. But the most of these people went to Dantzig. How contented they all will be there, experience will tell us. -finis- ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== Have you visited the webpage associated with this mail list? If not go to http://members.aol.com/PennaDutch/pennadutch.html

Can some one out there please send me part2 of the above title? I have had server problems and somehow I didn't recieve part2. Thank You, Kathy

Just in time for Christmas!! I received this from a friend who asked me to pass it along to everyone I >knew who had an E-mail address, what a better way to send it. >Subject: Cookie Recipe > >Neiman-Marcus Cookies > >THIS IS TRUE----PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ IT AND PLEASE SEND THIS >TO EVERY SINGLE PERSON YOU KNOW WHO HAS AN E-MAIL ADDRESS....THIS IS REALLY >TERRIFIC. > >My daughter & I had just finished a salad at Neiman-Marcus Cafe in Dallas & >decided to have a small dessert. Because both of us are such cookie lovers, >we decided to try the "Neiman-Marcus Cookie." > >{EDITORIAL COMMENT: Neiman's is a VERY EXPENSIVE department store in the >States}. >It was so excellent that I asked if they would give me the recipe and the >waitress said with a small frown, "I'm afraid not." > >Well, I said, would you let me buy the recipe? With a cute smile, she said, >"Yes." I asked how much, and she responded, "Only two fifty, it's a great >deal!" I said with approval, just add it to my tab. > >Thirty days later, I received my VISA statement from Neiman-Marcus and >it was $285.00. I looked again and I remembered I had only spent $9.95 for >two salads and about $20.00 for a scarf. As I glanced at the bottom of the >statement, it said, "Cookie Recipe - $250.00" > >That's outrageous!! > >I called Neiman's Accounting Dept. and told them the waitress said it was >"two-fifty," which clearly does not mean "two hundred and fifty dollars" by >any *POSSIBLE* interpretation of the phrase. > >Neiman-Marcus refused to budge. They would not refund my money, because >according to them, "What the waitress told you is not our problem. You have >already seen the recipe - we absolutely will not refund your money at this >point." I explained to her the criminal statutes which govern fraud in >Texas, I threatened to refer them to the Better Business Bureau and the >State's Attorney General for engaging in fraud. I was basically told, "Do >what you want, we don't give a crap, and we're not refunding your money." I >waited, thinking of how I could get even, or even try and get any of my money >back. I just said, "Okay, you folks got my $250, and >now I'm going to have $250.00 worth of fun." I told her that I was going to >see to it that every cookie lover in the United States with an e-mail account >has a $250.00 cookie recipe from Neiman-Marcus...for free. > >She replied, "I wish you wouldn't do this." I said, "Well, you should have >thought of that before you ripped me off," and slammed down the phone on her. > >So here it is!!! Please, please, please pass it on to everyone you can >possibly think of. I paid $250 for this...I don't want Neiman-Marcus to ever >get another penny off of this recipe.... > >(Recipe may be halved) > >2 cups butter >4 cups flour >2 tsp. soda >2 cups sugar >5 cups blended oatmeal (Measure oatmeal and blend in a blender to a fine >powder.) >24 oz. chocolate chips >2 cups brown sugar >1 tsp. salt >1- 8 oz. Hershey Bar (grated) >4 eggs >2 tsp. baking powder >2 tsp. vanilla >3 cups chopped nuts (your choice) > >Cream the butter and both sugars. Add eggs and vanilla; mix together with >flour, oatmeal, salt, baking powder, and soda. Add chocolate chips, Hershey >Bar and nuts. Roll into balls and place two inches apart on a cookie sheet. > >Bake for 10 minutes at 375 degrees. Makes 112 cookies. > >Have fun!!! > >This is not a joke --- this is a true story. Ride free citizens! ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== Have you visited the webpage associated with this mail list? If not go to http://members.aol.com/PennaDutch/pennadutch.html

Can anyone on this list give me directions to the following two York County cemeteries? Friedensaal Church in Springfield Township Strayer's or Salem Church in Dover Township Thanks. Joan Myers Young

Dear Joan, Maybe I can answer your question regarding Strayer's cemetery (from up here in New York). I guess it would be best if I would picture you in the city of Dover, York Co. Find West Canal St. and follow it southwest where it becomes just Canal Road. From the map I have I don't believe we're talking about a very long distance, but after you pass Salem Church Rd. which crosses Canal Road (BTW you've just passed Salem Union Church), not far down the road on the right is Strayers church and cemetery. And when you get there, I want you to pat two cemetery stones on the head for me. One is a marvelous large (not fancy) stone to the left of the church--maybe even the first row of tombstones--with its inscription written in German--John Schelli (1758-1814). The other is further to the left in the cemetery, you will probably not be able to make out the inscription, but it is the one of his daughter, Mary [Shelly] Houdeshell (1787-1863), wife of Emanuel Houdeshell. Don't spend any precious time searching for those stones--just give a warm wave in their direction for me. They were my dear, dear ancestors! Vee JYoung6180@aol.com wrote: > > Can anyone on this list give me directions to the following two York County > cemeteries? > > Friedensaal Church in Springfield Township > > Strayer's or Salem Church in Dover Township > > Thanks. Joan Myers Young

Note:what follows is a firsthand contemporary account by an unknown writer. The numbers of Palatines the writer discusses are discounted by as much as half in some instances according to many historians. "Being a short account of those Germans who, as it were through some species of enchantment, in 1709, sailed over the sea into England. How it fared with them, when they arrived and where they afterwards took their abode." In order not to detain the courteous reader with a tedious and unpleasant narration, I will briefly refer to the things which were done openly in England, before the "Praeludia" before the arrival of the Germans in 1708, on Blackheath. On the 24-25-26-27 and 28 days of July, 1708, not only in the gloomy night, but also in the broad daylight, many things were witnessed by all four camps whereon the following year, the Germans camped on the Black Head or "Blackheath", namely upon the Ritter-Kamm and in the "Camberwell" and in the Middle camp, just like a well laid off military encampment, many thousands of people of divers kinds, andreligiously educated, saw the spectacle with their own eyes, and to which they have solemnly attested, and have related to the minutest details, all the circumstances worthy of belief. Among others there was one witness, deep rooted in the faith, Jaun Alplin, minister of the Capella College, near Grinovium, and also Mr. John Burian, minister in the church of Dertforth, not yet knowing what significance should come out of this. In appearance, it has become cause for higher admiration and greater confusion, that in the presence of those encamping, especially those on the Blackheath, many thousands of birds like doves, gathered, and after they had flown about in the sky for a few days, they died there and were buried by those that were left, in the cool sand. Thereupon the Englishman ventured all sorts of conjectures and waited ever after for a fulfillment of their conjectures. Finally in the year never to return, 1709, on the 6th and 8th of May, eleven ships filled with Germans arrived in the great and mighty city of London, in the neighborhood of St. Catherine's and the Royal Brewery, and there landed from them 18,006 persons, old men, young men and women, who after being sent to Blackheath, where the camp was laid out as before stated by the direction of the Queen, were ordered to lodge four by four in the tents provided for them. A fortnight before the already named eleven ships arrived, five others had come bringing 4324 persons, transported from Holland to England, who also betook themselves to the camping place where they kindly received by a nobleman through the gracious command of the Queen. On St. John's Day four more ships arrived under full sail bringing 2138 souls, among whom were two clerical gentlemen, one named master George Hainer, formerly vicar at Holtzen and Rudling, in the dominion of Lansenberg, and of the Evangelical Lutheran religion; the other was John Stager, a Reformed student from Nassau-Siegen. He believed these 2138 were more highly regarded than any of the rest of the Germans because they brought no catholics with them, but at the command of their religious leaders debarred them from the ship. On this account they also received the best tents and the most pleasant location in the camp, namely the Rittercamp, and a more gracious eye was cast upon them than upon the others, by the wise Queen and the Parliament. Six weeks after this three ships arrived in Greenwich haven with 1328 Germans, who had to go into the Middle camp by the wholesale, because they looked somewhat slovenly and had a good many Catholics among them. About eight days before Michaelmas, (Sep. 29) the number of Germans was again increased by 4003 souls, part of whom took up their march at once to Ireland, partly because it was getting colder. (We have not taken into account the 3060 men, women and children who were buried at Blackheath.) They were in the meantime lodged in St. Catherine's and in the Royal Brewery. At last, three days before St. Martin's day(Nov. 11) the camp was removed. the beginning was made with the Rittercamp, because the Lord Commissioners had sought out the best lodgements for them. More than one hundred wagons were sent to take our beggarly property from the camp, so that no one had to incur expense. For eight days we had to take up our quarters in the Redhouse, until the rooms at Charles Cox's warehouse were cleaned. During the following eight days, while we were standing outside the Rittercamp at the Redhouse, two other ships arrived with 945 souls, who were at once directed to take up winter quarters in the above named warehouse. Two ships were driven out of their course by a storm and these did not arrive until the second Sunday in Advent, and then only with 540 persons. The above named were sent to westforth in order to have good quarters and not to further suffer as they had Christmas week there was a report that some of the very richest men in Germany came to England, but in truth they were only corrupted Swiss and a few from Nassau-Siegen. They had a few old horses, which I believe they would have eaten because of their great hunger. There were 288 souls scattered about the streets by the Tower, where 168 large pieces of cannon were placed, which, as was customary, were fired when ships coming across the sea arrived in harbor. At New Year 72 souls came over land about 100 miles, they having been deceived and brought hither on Holland coal ships. After these arrived by packet boat at one time 20, at another 30, now more, now less, until the total number of Germans was 32,468* souls. *This number is high by 30-50 per cent. ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== Forgot how to SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE? Send the appropriate one word message to PENNA-DUTCH-L-REQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM

Apropos a posting on this topic earlier, the location in Indiana is near Bloomington and is called Bean Blossom. There is an even better one over in Brown County, near Nashville, called Gnaw Bone. Allan E. Green

In 1880, George Good is listed as living with his grandparents: Jacob and Barbara SIDES. He was listed as 9 years old. Family has said he was the out-of-wedlock child of one of their daughters, but no one is sure which one...or who the father was. Does anyone know George's mother's name? Or anything more about him? Thanks, Karen

Wasn't there a movie in the 30's or 40's about Wiggens Patch or something very much like that. Foggy memory? Larry > ---------- > From: BeatAGoose[SMTP:BeatAGoose@aol.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 1997 8:09 AM > To: PENNA-DUTCH-L@rootsweb.com > Cc: evelync@norfolk.infi.net > Subject: Re: peach bottom &Quakeake > > When our 7 children were small we took them to different places in > Pennsylvania , gas was cheap then. We took them to Peach Bottom, but > our > favorite was Quakeake in Schuykill Co. the kids called it Quack-Quack. > There is another ( quite a few) in Schuylkill Co.called Mary D. > The kids used to love seeing the coal mining communties called > Patches, one > was Wiggens Patch. > I have a 1776 Atlas of Schuylkill Co. that names all these Patches > and > Villages, towns, cities. > Sylvia > > > > > > > ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== > New? Looking for a quick connection? Visit the surnames list > associated with this mail list at > http://members.aol.com/PennaDutch/pdlsurnames.html >

from the journal of Rev. John Wesley-description of typical shipboard conditions of immigrants--- "Monday 26--we enjoyed the calm. I can conceive no difference, comparable to that between a smooth and a rough sea, except that which is between a mind calmed by the love of God, and one torn up by the storms of earthly passions. "Thursday 29-- About seven in the evening , we fell in with the skirts of a hurricane. The rain as well as the wind was extremely violent. The sky was so dark in a moment that the sailors could not so much as see the ropes, or set about furling the sails. The ship must in all probability, have overset, had not the wind fell as suddenly as it rose. Toward the end of it, we had that appearance on each of the masts, which (it is thought) the ancients called Castor and Pollux. It was a small ball of white fire like a star. The mariners say it appears either in a storm (and then commonly upon the deck), or just at the end of it, and then it is usually on the masts or sails. "Friday 30-- We had another storm, which did us no other harm than splitting the foresail. Our bed being wet, I laid me down on the floor, and slept sound till morning. And I believe I shall not find it needful to go to bed (as it is called) any more. "Sunday, February 1--We spoke with a ship of Carolina; and Wednesday 4, came within the sounding. About noon the trees were visible from the masts, and in the afternoon from the main deck. in the evening lesson were these words; "A great door, and effectual, is opened." O let no one shut it! "The Palatine immigration of 1710 did not escape all these perils(**previously described). The younger Weiser(**Conrad Weiser) estimates the mortality on the voyage and immediately after as seventeen hundred, and his father and Scheff, in their petitions to the Board of Trade, August 2, 1720, give the same figure as that of those who 'died on board,or at their landing by unavoidable sickness.'(**among them were an ancestor and some of the children of my Batdorf cousins and myself) But as they fix the number of immigrants as four thousand, the discrepancy in the records of mortality is based upon the discrepancy in the records of the mortality is based upon the discrepancy in the record of the entire company. Governor Hunter reported immediately after his arrival:"The poor people have been mighty sickly, but recover apace. We have lost about four hundred and seventy of our number." One vessel was yet to be heard from. Two hundred and fifty are reported as having died of ship fever shortly after landing. The official report made by Mr. Du Pre to the Board of Trade, January 6, 1711, gives the number of survivors, when he left New York, probably in October, as 2,227. As Boehme's figures of 3,086, as the number of those who embarked, seem to be accurate, the entire loss was 859, of whom 609, or twenty per cent of the company died on the voyage. In his petiton of 1720, Scheff declares that the Palatines 'lost most of their young children at their going from home to America.' Boehme states that those packed in the lowest parts of the vessels were without fresh air and sunlight, and, under these circumstances, the small and tender children among them generally died. 'Of some families, neither parents nor children survive." "In one ship eighty died, and one hundred more were lying sick at one time. The causes assigned are two:first, the crowded condition of the vessels, and, secondly, the merciless treatment of the captains, who did not provide wholesome food. They landed acrushed, sick and dispirited band of exiles, after a voyage of about six months, as the vessels came in irregularly and differed in the exact time of passage. One of them, 'The Herbert' was grounded on the coast of Long Island, July 7th, twenty-one days after the first came to shore."The men are safe," writes Hunter, 'but the goods are much damaged.' Ther tenth vessel, 'The Berkley Castle', on July 24th, was six weeks overdue; although its later start from Plymouth must be taken into account. The grounding of 'The Herbert' has been made the basis for a romantic story and a beautiful poem by Whittier. Local tradition had told of a vessel called 'The Palatine', that was lured by false lights upon the rocks and then robbed and its passengers murdered. Certain graves, said to be those of Palatines, traceable in the vicinity, are referred to as evidences of the truth of the story. Governor Hunter's statement that the men were safe is interpreted as referring only to the English on board. But, as 'The Herbert' according to Hunter carried all the arms and tents of the expedition, and the goods on board were reported only as much damaged, any attack upon them or any acts of piracy would have been related. Nor would he have been so indifferent to the murder of some of the Palatines, when in his dispatch he speaks sympathizingly of their sickness at sea, and his mind was so intent upon plans in which he hoped to derive great gain from the industry of every colonist. they may have been wrecked by false lights; but if so the hopes of the wreckers were blasted by the force that they found they would encounter. The poet, however, has pictured the details of the plot to its consummation: Old wives spinning their webs of tow, Or rocking weirdly to and fro In and out of the peat's dull glow, And old men mending their nets of twine, Talk together of dream and sign, Talk of the lost ship 'Palatine'; The ship that a hundred years before, Freighted deep with its goodly store, In the gales of the Equinox went ashore. The eager islanders one by one, Counted the shots of her signal gun, And heard the crash when she drove right on! Into the teeth of death she sped: (May God forgive the hands that fed The false lights over the rocky Head). O Men and brothers! what sights were there! White upturned faces, hands stretched out in prayer! Where waves had pity, could ye not spare? Down swooped the wreckers, like birds of prey Tearing the heart of the ship away, And the dead had never a word to say. And then with Ghastly shimmer and shine Over the rocks and the seething brine, They burned the wreck of the 'Palatine'. The foundation of truth in the tradition may have been the wreck of a Palatine vessel at some later time, that in some way was diverted from its course to Pennsylvania. The prayers of the band whose history we have been recounting from such perils were heard. They had trials enough before as well as behind them to be spared such a calamity.

Don't leave out " Bird-in-Hand " ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== Have you visited the webpage associated with this mail list? If not go to http://members.aol.com/PennaDutch/pennadutch.html

I think the following website might be of interest to people researching PA genealogy (probably of lesser direct interest to PD list, but you never know.....) http://sdsspc1.physics.lsa.umich.edu/amckay/presintr.htm "History of the Early American Presbyterian Church" includes the following sections: - Presbyterianism in Pennsylvania - Biographies of Early Presbyterians - Early American Presbyterian Institutions * - Historical Events in Early American Presbyterianism - Early American Presbyterian Congregations * includes General Assembly; Washington and Jefferson College; and Log College, among others As always, I'd appreciate *private* email concerning the usefulness and appropriateness of a post like this to the lists. Anne Lurie St. George, Vermont

At 04:07 PM 10/8/97 -0500, you wrote: >Well my daughter graduated from Flour Bluff HS. >> I know absolutely nothing about Peach Bottom but it is such a >> delicious >> name I have to say something. Are there other good place names in >> Pennsylvania? I grew up 7 miles from Slippery Rock and was in >> graduate >> school in another state before I knew people thought there was >> anything >> funny about it. In my childhood it was just the village down the >> road. >> >> When I went to Indiana with my husband, there is a place called, I >> forget whether it is Pea Blossom or Bean Blossom but it broke me up >> and >> he did not see anything funny about it. >> >> I imagine people can add some more Pennsylvania ones. As children, we loved some of the PA lyrical names: Chinchilla; Egypt; Forty Fort; Eighty-four; Shickshinny; Snow Shoe; but I think our favorite was Carbondale, because we would sing: I know a man from Carbondale, He gets drunk on ginger-ale, Now he's in the county jail, For hitting his wife with a dinner pail. Ah, the joys of childhood ! Evelyn

Oops, supposed to be 1752 - 1800 Sue Bosevich wrote: > > Wow. I never thought I'd get so much response from mentioning MILLER > surname information!! I believe there is a mailing list for MILLER > researchers - can anyone recommend it? I won't be much a help for those > researching this surname outside of Lehigh and Northampton counties, > however, I do have a listing from the book "Lehigh County Births" for > MICKLY, MIELLER, MIER, MIES, MEISS, MILLER, MIMM, MINCK, MINGESER, > MINNINGER and MIRLONE surnames. It lists dates of births, parents > names, and source from abt 1852 to 1800. I'd be happy to do lookups > from this list. > > Sue (Miller) Bosevich > bosevich@ilinks.net > > ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== > Forgot how to SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE? Send the appropriate one word message to PENNA-DUTCH-L-REQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== Have you visited the webpage associated with this mail list? If not go to http://members.aol.com/PennaDutch/pennadutch.html

Wow. I never thought I'd get so much response from mentioning MILLER surname information!! I believe there is a mailing list for MILLER researchers - can anyone recommend it? I won't be much a help for those researching this surname outside of Lehigh and Northampton counties, however, I do have a listing from the book "Lehigh County Births" for MICKLY, MIELLER, MIER, MIES, MEISS, MILLER, MIMM, MINCK, MINGESER, MINNINGER and MIRLONE surnames. It lists dates of births, parents names, and source from abt 1852 to 1800. I'd be happy to do lookups from this list. Sue (Miller) Bosevich bosevich@ilinks.net ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== Forgot how to SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE? Send the appropriate one word message to PENNA-DUTCH-L-REQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM

SOLSHINE@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 97-10-08 04:58:52 EDT, you write: > > << Hi All: > > I'm no expert in this, but are any copyright laws being violated with > postings like this? According to > http://lcweb.loc.gov/copyright/circs/circ22 for any UNpublished, > UNregistered work written before 1978, its "copyright" will not expire > before 31 Dec 2002. Works first published or copyrighted before 1920 > are safe to duplicate. > > This posting isn't intended to ruffle anyone's feathers, I just don't > want any of our wonderful list members to get into trouble. The fines > can be rather high. > > Sue (Miller) Bosevich > bosevich@ilinks.net > > > PennaDutch@aol.com wrote: > > > > This is the first of a multi-part post. It is from a presentation to the > PA > > German Society made in 1898 by Henry Eyster Jacobs. It has been reprionted > in > > many books or excerpted in articles about the Pennsylvania Dutch and the > > immigration of their forefathers...... > >> > > Dear Sue - As you can see, the posting is excerpts from a presentation made > in "1898" which means it should be excluded from copyright constraints. > Please don't rain on our parade! I, for one, greatly appreciate the effort > of sharing this information. Besides, who on this list is going to call the > feds and tell them we're enjoying this post and it "might" be a copyright > violation? > > Laura Armstrong Tuttle I suppose I have to repeat myself: "This posting isn't intended to ruffle anyone's feathers, I just don't want any of our wonderful list members to get into trouble." And by the way, IF the original work (the presentation made in 1898) was an unpublished/unregistered work (and I don't have the slightest idea if this is so), it WOULD be protected under current copyright law until the year 2002. The persons reprinting this work probably got permission to do so. It's the posting of more recent copyrighted works which warrant concern (I recall seeing one published in the 1970s). Yes, I've copied pages at the library, printed web pages of information, and printed nearly every posting like Rod's (they're great!), and no, a list member isn't likely to 'turn anyone in'. But like it or not, in this day-and-age of people suing at a drop of a hat, I felt a comment was appropriate. Sue (Miller) Bosevich ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== Have you visited the webpage associated with this mail list? If not go to http://members.aol.com/PennaDutch/pennadutch.html