I did a search and came up with thiis ULR that seems to cover all of PA and I don't know if the maps would go back in time far enough, but its worth looking at. http://www-nmd.usgs.gov/esic/usimage/test/pa.html Also, someone on another list mentioned township fire maps, by way of the local fire department. Haven't tried either of these suggestions myself. Hope this helps someone. Regards, SEE

Halloween is the day(or eve) that preceeds All Saints Day. It and Dia del muerte or other forms of halloween and All Saints day are celebrated in many places. The United Church of Christ, First Dutch Reformed, observes All Saints day which was originally a Catholic tradition. When Zwingli went his way he also incorporated All Saints day into the Reformed church. Halloween and Dia del Muerte(Nov 1) are huge events in Austin and San Antonio respectively. I remember collecting money for some cause or another in the late 50's early 60's but mostly I remember our "trick" being, throwing corn. we would take all the kernels off of ears and ears of dried field corn and fill brown paper bags with the stuff. Then we'd take it trick or treating with us. If no one was home or hiding and probably even sometimes after getting a treat we would throw handfuls of corn aganst the windows as we took off. Lots of front porches in Ephrata had corn on them on the morning of Nov. 1 rod ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== Have you visited the webpage associated with this mail list? If not go to http://members.aol.com/PennaDutch/pennadutch.html

>Hi List, > >I'm looking for a place to purchase TOWNSHIP MAPS. I've seen these maps in >various county histories, etc. Usually they are from the early to late >1800's. Maps I'm looking for are for townships in Dauphin, Lancaster, >Lebanon, Berks and Mifflin Counties. If anyone knows a source for these >maps please post to the list or contact me directly by e-mail. Thanks all. > >Bill Deimler > >bdeimler@wazoo.com > Greetings All! Add to the above list Franklin County please. Carol aldingc@sw2.k12.wy.us Love, mO-Om V

we used to call a co worker "poppin' fresh". he was the only one that didn't think it was funny. it still makes me laugh, rod ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== New? Looking for a quick connection? Visit the surnames list associated with this mail list at http://members.aol.com/PennaDutch/pdlsurnames.html

My great grandfather, Peter Jacob GERHARDT and his wife, Mary Katherine HILDEBRANDT brought their familiy to the United States from Germany in 1869 and settled in Cambria County. In writings of my grandfather I found the information that Peter Jacob was the son of Johan Frederick GERHARDT, and that Mary Katherine Hildebrandt was the daughter of Conrad HILDEBRANDT and that they were from Langenselbold in Hesse Darmstadt. They were lifelong Lutherans, so I wrote to the church there, and they stated that they had no records of any Gerhardts or Hildebrandts, so I am stumped as to how to proceed from here. My father started this search in 1956 and met with the same result. Any suggestions? Dorothy Jones

Hi all, I found out yesterday that people in Colombia also celebrate Halloween!!! Did any of you know this? Linda

If anyone has any information on the following name's I would like to hear from you. I am willing to share whatever I have. ALBRIGHT ALLEMAN BAGIN BEACH BUFFAMOYER FETTER GROFF HELMAN HORNBERGER KAZANJIAN LUTZ MATTHEWS MELLINGER MOWERY MUSSELMAN PARTHEMORE RHOADS RINEER STUMP TABACJAR WEIDMAN WEIT ZEHRING Please e-mail me at: LKaz@aol.com Thank you, Lisa ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== Have you visited the webpage associated with this mail list? If not go to http://members.aol.com/PennaDutch/pennadutch.html

Dear Group, No, this is not another one of my “cute” stories, nor is it a humorous story. It is just a message to all of you who have been sitting for hour upon hour, day upon day at your computer, working hard at genealogy and enjoying all the friendships you have made on the Internet. If you have all of a sudden realized, like I have, that your aches and pains seem to be increasing in direct proportion to the length of time you are sitting down, don’t just blame it on “arthritis” as I have for so long. What I’m trying to say is that because I have a bony butt--pardon me, “hiney”-- and I have put so much prolonged pressure on the nerves over the bones, I now have been diagnosed with having peripheral neuropathy. The diagnosis is very new to me and a full range of tests haven’t been taken yet but it all adds up. Because of compressed nerves due to prolonged sitting at my computer over the years, I am now in constant pain--made worse by sitting down--severely weak legs and arms, shaky hands and I stagger when I walk. Those of you who remember the pathetic story about my disastrous “Thelma and Louise Adventure” might recall that I mentioned then--in May--the aches and pains of the trip, the staggering and weakness in my legs and my shaky hands. I just wrote it all off on the stress of the trip. As a result, it’s all that I can do to sit down long enough to download my email in the morning. After walking about the house for a bit, then I can sit down again and read the email messages. I’ve tried setting up my laptop at my kitchen countertop to see if I could at least continue to write stories or answer messages into it but I found that I can’t just stand for any period of time, either. What I’m trying to do this evening is to see if I can manage to still keep in touch with the world and possibly continue to write stories with my laptop actually on my lap while sitting in my new La-Z-Boy recliner. It seems to be working pretty good so far and do you know what? If you have the chair covered in velvet, the armrest makes a great mousepad!! :-D Again I have messages I haven’t replied to but this time I guess I’ll just have to forego any answers. It’s obvious that I won’t be going into any writing of a newspaper column nor will I be writing any stories in the near future. But, hey, who knows, if I can find a painless way to sit at my computer again--such as in my recliner--I may be able to continue without a hitch. But the most important thing right now is for me to pay attention to my health and get myself back to my normal vital self. Let’s fact it, I was skipping rope in August and who knows but what I might be trying my hand at touch football before the snow flies! I WILL not be an invalid, I WILL not give up on story writing OR genealogy but it looks like I’m going to have to make some adjustments in my lifestyle until I get back on my feet--or back on my tush!! :-D Keep your messages coming to me but right now I’m hurtin’ too much to reply to all of them. A PS to Bill Kennedy in case you’ve read this far, Bill. Regarding your MEALS grandmother, yes the name is definitely German. The name is also spelled Mihls, Males, Miehl, Miell, Muhl and Muhls. My ancestor Johann Samuel Muhl b 1711 came to America in 1741 from Baden, Germany. Died 1795, buried Bender’s Church, Menallen Twp, (now Butler Twp.), York Co. (now Adams Co.), PA. Hey, I think this is working and I’m feeling better already! :-D luvya, vee ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== Haven't found a post of interest? Why not generate one of your own?

Salome United Brethren (now "Columbia United Methodist") Church 510 Walnut Street COLUMBIA PA 17512 (717) 684-2356 A. Hunter Rhineer, Jr.'s important book _Churches and Cemeteries of Lancaster County_ (Lanc. Co Hist. Soc., 1993) lists no other congregation with the rather unique name "Salome," and one might safely conclude that this is the place of the inquiry in question. The congregation was one of many of the former United Brethren in Christ denomination which originated in Lancaster County, eventually to join with the Evangelical Association to become the Evangelical United Brethren Church and, now in later years, to merge with the Methodist Episcopal Church to become United Methodst Church. Rhineer's book indicates that records before 1882 are lost and that the congregation holds all records since that time. That may complicate the present search. Karl E. Moyer Lancaster PA On Sat, 1 Nov 1997, BILL DEIMLER wrote: > Hello List, > > My Ancestor "REBECCA GAULT" b. Sept. 10, 1846 and d. Feb. 18, 1911 married > to "FELIX KREISER" June 25, 1863 was a member of SALOME UNITTED BRETHERN > CHURCH, not sure of the location, but they lived in Londonderry Twp., > Dauphin County near Elizabethtown at the time of her death. The question > is, are there records for this church available. I am looking for further > information on REBECCA as well as FELIX. I have additional info on the > KREISER line but nothing on the GAULT line. Any help is appreciated and wil > share what info I have now. > > Bill Deimler > > bdeimler@wazoo.com > > > > ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== > Haven't found a post of interest? Why not generate one of your own? > > >

Barbara - Thanks for your interesting story about Halloween; I did not know that about the Irish. I grew up in Western Pa and never heard 'Help the Poor' in connection with Halloween, although, perhaps because my mother was English, I was aware of St. Stephens ('Boxing Day'), the day after Christmas. The Mexicans make a big deal of, I think it must be All Souls Day, which they call 'The Day of the Dead', and they have a traditional candy for the children which is in the form of little skulls. I'm not sure how this connects but no doubt somehow through the Catholic Church. Jan Barbara Eberly wrote: > > Dear Lurking, > > Your "help the poor" or went back to a middle stage of > Halloween. The "holiday" as we know it began when the > Christians in Ireland wanted to convert the pagans. > Halloween was Samhain (Sp?), the Celtic New Year. According > to their belief, the old year was over at sundown and the > new year did not begin till sunrise on the next day. > Therefore, the time between was "out of time" and an > occasion for the Fey to come more easily into "our" world. > The Fey were NOT cute little fairies dancing on flower > petals, they were big nasty creatures who took delight in > messing up the lives of mortals. Self respecting pagans > stayed home with their doors locked. As a demonstration > that they were protected by "Jesus and all the saints," > Christians dressed up and actually dared to go out on this > dangerous night. The Catholic Church -- following an old > established technique of overlaying a pagan holiday with a > Christian one -- announced that henceforth that day would be > "All Saints Day." (To be followed the next day by All Souls > Day -- they didn't want to leave anybody out!) It was > apparently relatively successful as a conversion technique. > (Not that the Irish really completely gave up their > conviction that there really were fey and little people > still out there waiting to create mischief.) > > >From there, there was a period when the poor went around > from door to door with the phrase "help the poor." They > were supposed to be given "circles of bread" (donuts???) -- > a symbol of eternity. (Did this mean that they were to be > eternally poor or that there would be bread eternally???? I > have no idea who came up with the idea or why. I always > thought it was a bit weird.) > > I think the "trick or treat" stage is American. I don't > know exactly how it got started here, but I suspect that the > Irish immigrants carried it over as a custom which got > somewhat tilted along the way. > > I don't know if you have people in the north who claim that > Halloween is a "Pagan" holiday (a contridiction in terms, > surely, since "holiday" is a contraction of Holy Day) and > that all Christians should therefore stay home with their > doors locked until the evil associated with this night is > safely over. > > Sound familiar??? > > Incidentally, for some reason Americans didn't seem to pick > up on the practice of going around on St. Stephens Day (the > day after Christmas) with a dead bird (or immitation > thereof) saying, "The wren is dead, the wren is dead, A > penny for it's head." > > Barbara > -- jan <janiceaf@ix.netcom.com> Researching names: FRANK, KELLER, LUPHER/LUPFER, PENROSE, SCHULTZ, TAYLOR

This is a small cemetery I listed last year, thought the new ones on the lists might need it. If no one wants any more of these, let me know and I'll stop doing them. This is a very small cemetery located on Highway 100, about 4 miles East of Lake Butler, Fl. in Union County. Several headstones were entirely unreadable using every method that we know. Many will have no use for this listing, but hope there's just one or two who will be interested. Since it IS so small, we included all inscriptions that were out of the norm. All of the graves listed as unmarked "seemed" to be babies. CREWS FAMILY CEMETERY 1. JOHN L. WELLS Son of BERRY & MARY WELLS Born Oct. 7, 1889 Mar. 9, 1911 2. Sacred to the memory of LILLIAN WELLS Born Feb. 10, 1884 Died Aug. 27, 1886 3. UNMARKED 4. UNMARKED 5. Sacred to the memory of SARAH WELLS Age 70 Years 6. UNMARKED 7. UNMARKED 8. UNMARKED 9. BABY (very elaborate writing, but no info) 10. GURNEY E. CASON (there is an "S" over the name) June 28, 1910 April 6, 1980 11. UNMARKED 12. STEVEN ELMO CASON Apr. 6, 1908 Feb. 22, 1957 13. MARY CASON Aug. 3, 1874 Aug. 17, 1949 14. JESSE CASON Dec. 23, 1879 Apr. 17, 1933 15. H.M.THOMPSON May 28, 1868 Jan. 2, 1902 16. JOHNNIE EMANUEL Son of H.M. & M. M. THOMPSON Born Jan. 26, 1897 Died Mar. 2, 1897 17. LEOANADAS M. CREWS May 5, 1880 April 7, 1900 18. S. B. DENMARK, JR Born Nov. the 16 A.D. 18 & 88 Died Dec the 30 A.D. 1890 one less of them to love, one more to miss in prayer, may GOD bless the babe 19. MINNIE CHRISTIAN Daughter of E. C. & A. C. GREEN Born Aug. 10, 1898 Dec. 25, 1901 20. WILLIE E. GREEN May 17, 1903 Mar. 4, 1904 21. MARY E. Wife of SAMUEL CREWS Born MAR. 29, 1820 Died Jan. 11, 1877 Mother, thou hast from us flown, to the regions far above We, to thee, erect this stone, consecrated by our love 22. SAMUEL CREWS Died Sept. 26, 1865 Age 56 Years Living, he made the poor man's heart glad. And at his death, the sorrowing ones were sad His words were kindness, his deeds were love His spirit humble, He rests above 23. LOMI Wife of J. M. THOMAS Born May 28, 1861 Died Sept. 19, 1879 There are no partings in Heaven 24. PLAN Son of J. M. THOMAS Born Aug. 19, 1879 Died Dec. 15, 1879 He is not dead, just sleepeth 25. The Darling Son of Mr. & Mrs. JOHN B. CREWS Dec. 22, 1911 DeC. 22, 1911 A flower that never bloomed 26. ( no name ) My own death has come To mansions above yonder sky To gaze on the beautiful throne of HIM Who is seated on high 27. P. S. CREWS Born Nov. 7, 1837 Died Sept. 13, 1896 28. MARY P. CREWS Feb. 20, 1836 Dec. 25, 1915 Oh, can we ever forget the agonizing hour When our mother's eyes closed to wake no more 29. UNCLE JACK J. J. FARRELLY 1862 1943 30. SALLIE E. Wife of J. J. FARRELLY Dec. 29, 1866 June 30, 1910 The hearts been anguished, only those can tell Who've bid the dearest and best farewell 31. ERREL Son of Mr. & Mrs. J. J. FARRELLY Aged 17 MONTHS 32. C. W. NATIONS (Masonic) 1875 1934 33. JOHN F. CREWS Sept. 26, 1919 34. GEORGETTE M. CREWS Jun. 1, 1924 Aug. 3, 1989 35. GEORGE F. DELIGNE May 26, 1893 Feb. 19, 1964 36. LEA M. DELIGNE Mar. 19, 1893 Nov. 30, 1959 37. JESSIE MAE CREWS Jun. 4, 1932 Oct. 5, 1936 2 In Above Ground Vault With HAYS On It 38. INA B. CREWS (Eastern Star) Feb. 9, 1891 May 14, 1976 39. MASTON S. (Masonic) Feb. 24, 1892 Dec. 11, 1972 40. CELIA ELIZABETH CREWS Footstone says C. E. SAPP Aug. 12, 1856 Oct. 30, 1925 41. JOHN BRYAN CREWS, SR Sept. 16, 1851 May 29, 1931 42. OSCAR THEODORE Brother Jun. 5, 1887 May 30, 1925 43. GLADYS CREWS MORGAN Mother 1907 1969 At foot of this grave were 4 unreadable markers 44. MAGGIE M. BAILEY Aug. 18, 1874 Nov. 30, 1900 45. CORRIE T. DOWLING Sept. 13, 1897 46. JOE LEE DOWLING Aug. 23, 1899 Dec. 20, 1959 47. AGNES LUCILE DOWLING Feb. 24, 1921 Aug. 20, 1922 48. J. W. GORDON Sept. 16, 1874 Sept. 8, 1901 We can not tell who next may fallBeneath thy chastening rod One must be first but let us all Prepare to meet our GOD 49. INFANT Son of Mr. & Mrs. D. C. CASON Born Aug. 8, 1895 50. ANTHONY Son of Mr. & Mrs. D. C. CASON Jan. 4, 1899 Aug. 20, 1900 51. IDA LEE Daughter of Mr. & Mrs. R.A. & M. A. BROWN Born Aug. 14, 1887 Nov. 4, 1892 --------- End forwarded message ---------- ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== Have you visited the webpage associated with this mail list? If not go to http://members.aol.com/PennaDutch/pennadutch.html

All, My hard drive went down last wednesday. Therefore at the moment I have no archived email, lost some unread email, files etc. It will be Monday before I will know if the data can be recovered. In the interim I will be on a laptop and without many of the resources I'm accustomed to. So, it will be a few days until I can edit/Add to the website, edit surnames etc. I'm more anxious than anyone to get this situation resolved and will get back on track soon. My apologies for any inconvenience this may cause anyone. rod

Dear Lurking, Your "help the poor" or went back to a middle stage of Halloween. The "holiday" as we know it began when the Christians in Ireland wanted to convert the pagans. Halloween was Samhain (Sp?), the Celtic New Year. According to their belief, the old year was over at sundown and the new year did not begin till sunrise on the next day. Therefore, the time between was "out of time" and an occasion for the Fey to come more easily into "our" world. The Fey were NOT cute little fairies dancing on flower petals, they were big nasty creatures who took delight in messing up the lives of mortals. Self respecting pagans stayed home with their doors locked. As a demonstration that they were protected by "Jesus and all the saints," Christians dressed up and actually dared to go out on this dangerous night. The Catholic Church -- following an old established technique of overlaying a pagan holiday with a Christian one -- announced that henceforth that day would be "All Saints Day." (To be followed the next day by All Souls Day -- they didn't want to leave anybody out!) It was apparently relatively successful as a conversion technique. (Not that the Irish really completely gave up their conviction that there really were fey and little people still out there waiting to create mischief.) From there, there was a period when the poor went around from door to door with the phrase "help the poor." They were supposed to be given "circles of bread" (donuts???) -- a symbol of eternity. (Did this mean that they were to be eternally poor or that there would be bread eternally???? I have no idea who came up with the idea or why. I always thought it was a bit weird.) I think the "trick or treat" stage is American. I don't know exactly how it got started here, but I suspect that the Irish immigrants carried it over as a custom which got somewhat tilted along the way. I don't know if you have people in the north who claim that Halloween is a "Pagan" holiday (a contridiction in terms, surely, since "holiday" is a contraction of Holy Day) and that all Christians should therefore stay home with their doors locked until the evil associated with this night is safely over. Sound familiar??? Incidentally, for some reason Americans didn't seem to pick up on the practice of going around on St. Stephens Day (the day after Christmas) with a dead bird (or immitation thereof) saying, "The wren is dead, the wren is dead, A penny for it's head." Barbara joycestevens@juno.com wrote: > > After listening to all children this evening threatening to Trick or > Treat, I can only wonder what happened to "help the poor?" Is/was this > second phrase one used by post depression babies (me?) in the Midwest or > are there no poor people any more? > Just curious. > Lurking in Livonia > > ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== > New? Looking for a quick connection? Visit the surnames list associated with this mail list at http://members.aol.com/PennaDutch/pdlsurnames.html

I know this is off the subject, but...since we are genealogy-minded, thought you might like this obituary that was passed on to me... Veteran Pillsbury spokesman Pop N Fresh died yesterday at age 71. Fresh was buried in one of the largest ceremonies in recent years. Dozens of celebrities turned out including Mrs. Butterworth, the California Raisins, Hungry Jack, Betty Crocker and the Hostess Twinkies. The grave side was piled high with flours as longtime friend Aunt Jemina delivered the eulogy, describing Fresh as a man who "never knew how much he was Kneaded". Fresh rose quickly in show business, but later life was filled with many turnovers. He was not considered a very smart cookie,wasting much of his dough on half-baked schemes. Still, even as a crusty old man, he was a roll model for millions. Fresh is survived by his second wife. They have two children and one in the oven, The funeral will be tomorrow at 3:50 for about 20 minutes. ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== Have you visited the webpage associated with this mail list? If not go to http://members.aol.com/PennaDutch/pennadutch.html

Hi List, I'm looking for a place to purchase TOWNSHIP MAPS. I've seen these maps in various county histories, etc. Usually they are from the early to late 1800's. Maps I'm looking for are for townships in Dauphin, Lancaster, Lebanon, Berks and Mifflin Counties. If anyone knows a source for these maps please post to the list or contact me directly by e-mail. Thanks all. Bill Deimler bdeimler@wazoo.com ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== Abbreviations---PD=Pennsylvania Dutch, PMH=Pennsylvania Mennonite Heritage magazine, MFH=Mennonite family History magazine, MRJ=Mennonite Research Journal, LMHS=Lancaster Mennonite Hist. Society. This and more list info at: http://members.aol.com/PennaDutch/pennadutch.html

Hello List, My Ancestor "REBECCA GAULT" b. Sept. 10, 1846 and d. Feb. 18, 1911 married to "FELIX KREISER" June 25, 1863 was a member of SALOME UNITTED BRETHERN CHURCH, not sure of the location, but they lived in Londonderry Twp., Dauphin County near Elizabethtown at the time of her death. The question is, are there records for this church available. I am looking for further information on REBECCA as well as FELIX. I have additional info on the KREISER line but nothing on the GAULT line. Any help is appreciated and wil share what info I have now. Bill Deimler bdeimler@wazoo.com ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== Haven't found a post of interest? Why not generate one of your own?

11-01-97 @ 0015 EST Was there a Digest Volume 97: Issue #211? If so, subscribers using server AOL may not have received it, as AOL service was down for over two hours in mid-afternoon on October 29th, during which e-mail was interrupted, or not delivered. Carl C. ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== Forgot how to SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE? Send the appropriate one word message to PENNA-DUTCH-L-REQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM

Hi All, I am interested in learning the origin of the surnames listed above. If someone could direct me to some reference or possibly has knowledge about any of these names they would like to share it would be appreciated. Is the spelling STINE from STEIN or possibly STINER? Is this a German name. I am not sure about correctness of the name FAHEL. It is listed on my great grandmother's death certificate as her mothers maiden name but there is no given name listed. Could this possibly be a given name rather than a surname? MEALS is my great grandmothers maiden name. Is this possibly German her fathers name was Ferdinand Meals born Pa. Thank you, Bill PLEASE VISIT MY GENEALOGY WEB PAGE: -- PLEASE VISIT MY GENEALOGY WEB PAGE: http://users.nbn.net/~wkennedy/index.html ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== Forgot how to SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE? Send the appropriate one word message to PENNA-DUTCH-L-REQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM

Valentine Keim died intestate 1808. He has an Estate File in the Register of Wills in the Berks County Court House, The Estate File consits of12 pages. It contains a Administration, several Petitions, Inventory, Distribution of Real Estate, etc. I will give you just Genealogical info: BERKS COUNTY, SS. The Comonwealth of Pennsylvania to the Sherill of Berks County, GREETING: Whereas Jacob Keim a son of Valentine Keim late of the Township of Maidencreek in said County, yoeman, deceased preferred a Petition to our Judgees of the Orphans Court of the said County, setting forth that his said father died intestate about two weeks since & left a widow Magdalena & issue nine children, to wit, Catharine Intermarried with Valentine Schmeck; Mary who was Intermarried with Nicholas Mengel, who is also dead, left Issue Eight children, to wit, Abraham, Jacob, John, Daniel, Joseph, Peter, Mary & Christina Mengel; Elizabeth Intermarried with Herman Unger; Susanna who was married with Peter Kreisher who is also dead; John Keim; The Petioner; Magdalena wife of Stephan Bernt; Christina wife of Jesse Thompson; & Daniel Keim and the said Intestate died, seized in his demise as of Fee of and in a Messauge Tenament & part of Land situate in the Township of Maidencreek. containing One hundred & fifty acres adjoining lands of Adam Rahn, John Gehrig, Jost Luss, Andrew Snyder. Adam Gehret and the River Schuylkill. May 20, 1808. ( Susanna Keim Kreisher is the widow of Peter Kreisher.) Sylvia Graybill ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== Abbreviations---PD=Pennsylvania Dutch, PMH=Pennsylvania Mennonite Heritage magazine, MFH=Mennonite family History magazine, MRJ=Mennonite Research Journal, LMHS=Lancaster Mennonite Hist. Society. This and more list info at: http://members.aol.com/PennaDutch/pennadutch.html

We've had 4 kids this eve... Colo Springs.. it's 9:00 PM The schools & churches are having parties.. they say it protects our kids from "nuts" on the loose...? Shame our legal system won't do it... ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== Forgot how to SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE? Send the appropriate one word message to PENNA-DUTCH-L-REQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM