I am searching for information on George Price, B: 16 Jan 1792, Philadelphia, PA D: Oct 1821 in Lancaster PA. Here is what I know about George's family. He md: Mary Ann Biddle b: nov 18 1795 George & Mary Ann children were: George or James Washington Price B 27 Oct 1815, GeorgeTown DC ?? At age 7 GWP was "bound to a Quaker family to learn a trade" md: Elizabeth Munuch Ferguson 30 Dec 1849 Amanda Melvina B: 25 Aug 1817, Philadelphia Pa md:James Alonzo Lechler Emeline Agusta B: 28 July 1819, Lancaster Pa Caroline Elizabeth B: 14 Feb 1821, Philadelphia Pa Known related family members (sibbling or cousin) are Peter Price Jr, B: 20 Jun 1782, Philadelphia, PA Elizabeth Price, B: 11 Aug 1785, Philadelphia, PA Mathais Price, B: 20 Nov 1786, Philadelphia, PA Margret Price, B: 10 Apr 1788, Philadelphia, PA m: Johnathan Paxson, about 1815, West Chester, Chester, Pa John Price, B: 14 Jun 1790 Philadelphia, PA Catherine Price, B: 14 Jun 1790, Philadelphia, PA m: John Reiff abt 1810 William Price, B: 14 Oct 1794, Philadelphia, PA Barbara Price, B: 3 Jun 1797, Philadelphia, PA Peter Price b: Holland?? m Catherine Sands Related surnames include Rapp, Reiff, Paxson, Sands, Carr Have info on George Price, Biddle and Dehaven lines to share. If you have any information on any of the above, lets share our knowledge. Have a nice day. DGPrice _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

At 08:01 PM 2/3/99 EST, you wrote: > Does anyone have or have access to the following FTM CD's? And if you do > would you mind looking up and forwarding me the information: I am using FTM I don't have these CD's, but if you go to the following website you will find volunteers for each CD. http://members.tripod.com/~GrannyGrump/cdlist.html If you see a Benjamin or Samuel Brown/Braun in any county in PA let me know, thanks. Bob Battaglia <[email protected]> in the Alamo City

In a message dated 99-02-03 03:07:52 EST, you write: << Does anyone have or have access to the following FTM CD's? And if you do would you mind looking up and forwarding me the information: I am using FTM so either sending me a printout of the info or just sending a GEDCOM or FTM file would be fine. What ever would be easiest. Looking for the Descendants of: Susanna Herb CD019 Genealogical Records: Egle's Notes and Queries of Pennsylvania #19 CD130 Pennsylvania German Church Records. 1729-1870 CD166 Church Records: Selected Areas of Pennsylvania 1600s-1800s CD209 Genealogical Records: Pennsylvania Wills, 1682-1834 >> From CD130: Schwartzwald Reformed Church: Marriage October 4, 1788, of Peter Dollinger and Susanna Herb of Heresford, Berks Co. Oley Hill Church Baptisms: Jacob Drollinger, son of Peter and Susanna, b. August 27, 1793, bapt. October 6, 1793. Sponsors Jacob Geres and Magdalene. Elizabeth Drollinger, daughter of Peter and Susanna, b. March 20, 1775, bapt. May 17, 1795. Sponsors Johannes Klotz and Elizabeth Although no other children are listed for Peter and Susanna, a Peter and Magdalene Drollinger had at least two children, one Catherine, b. January 17, 1796. This was recodred in the records of the Tohicken Union (Lutheran) Church. This is probably not the same Peter with a new wife, considering the dates of Elizabeth's and Catherine's births. Good luck, Eileen

Is anybody else researching this German family? I believe they were in Philadelphia Co. Johannes Flinner arr. 7 Nov 1754 on the John and Elizabeth. Removed to MD. Regards, Pegeen

Does anyone have or have access to the following FTM CD's? And if you do would you mind looking up and forwarding me the information: I am using FTM so either sending me a printout of the info or just sending a GEDCOM or FTM file would be fine. What ever would be easiest. Looking for the Descendants of: Susanna Herb CD019 Genealogical Records: Egle's Notes and Queries of Pennsylvania #19 CD130 Pennsylvania German Church Records. 1729-1870 CD166 Church Records: Selected Areas of Pennsylvania 1600s-1800s CD209 Genealogical Records: Pennsylvania Wills, 1682-1834 Johann Conrad Lorsbach WFT Volume 23 Tree: 1163 Looking for the Ancestors of: Henry Lushbaugh CD018 Family Queries: Everton's Computerized "Roots" Cellar, 1640-1990 CD210 Genealogical Records: The National Genealogical Society Quarterly, Volumes 1- 85, 1600s-1900s Thank You; Bob

Searching for parents & sibs of Johnathan GRIEST b. 08 / 13 / 1793 York Co. PA. - d. 04 / 23 / 1872 Pickaway Co. OH. + Mary ? : b. 06 / 07 / 1785 Baltimore, MD. Children: only have one or two: (1) Hester GRIEST (GRIST on marriage Cert.) b. 04 / 01 / 1814-16 York Co. PA. - d. 12 / 13 / 1899 York Co. + Thomas Bradley ROTH b. 08 / 07 / 1810 (where?) - d. 9 / 11 / 1878. Hester was the dau. of Johnathan GRIEST & Mary ? . New discovery...(contributed by L.M. Lawrence)...May be Hester's sister?... haven't established a confirmed link to MY John & Mary yet : (2) Lucinda GRIEST b. 11 / 18 / 1826 York Co. PA. (Dau of Johnathan GRIEST of York Co. & Mary MORRIS) + (01 / 08 / 1846-OH.) Parkerson LONGERBONE. Regards, Paul

In a message dated 99-02-02 14:03:02 EST, you write: > Searching for parents & sibs of Johnathan GRIEST b. 08 / 13 / 1793 York > Co. PA. - d. 04 / 23 / 1872 Pickaway Co. OH. + Mary ? : b. 06 / 07 / > 1785 Baltimore, MD. Paul, I didn't find a Jonathan born in 1793 in my books for York County but I did find a whole bunch of Griest/Grists in York County in the records of Warrington Monthly Meeting and even far more in the records of Menallen Monthly Meeting in Adams County (which would have been part of York County until 1800). It looks to me as if all (or at least most) of the Griests were Quakers--so perhaps that will narrow down your search a bit. Joan

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I am researching the STUPP family from the Rehrersburg / Bethel area. My great grandfather was William Peter Stupp, Jr. (Billie the auctioneer) lived in Bethel as an adult circa 1900 to 1950 and married Mary Klein. His father was William Peter Stupp also from that area. Regret I don't know his wife's name. Any details about the Stupp family in that area will be appreciated. [email protected] Orinda,CA

To All: All of the GenConnect Query Boards for the Pennsylvania Dutch Family History website are now operational. This includes a Gereral Query, Obituary, Will, Biographies, Deeds, Bible Record and Pension Record board. They can be all reached from: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~padutch/padutchboard.html Thanks! Don

At 12:40 1/31/99, Ann Rickard wrote: >Hi Group, > >In researching German ancestors I've come across some statements and >ideas that I'm wondering if other researchers have read and possibly >checked out: > >2. "It's more difficult to trace the 1700's German emigrants because >they often were "pioneers" in the formation of newer PA counties - >did not have access to schooling and were, therefore, often illiterate, >not showing up in early histories to the extent of 1850 + emigrants >from Germany whose families in Europe had the advantage of earlier >schooling". So the later immigrants would have been more motivated >to higher education - especially if they had arrived in Phila. ???? > This is one statement I *DEFINITELY* disagree with. I think it comes from the fact that many of the 16/1700's German emigrants were persecuted for various reasons in their homeland and had a great distrust of any governmental functions. The less known about them the better; so many "signed" their oaths etc with just the "X" leading to the early assumption that they were illiterate. Also, if they were so illiterate, how come the Germans in PA were some of the first to start schools in the "wilderness"?? They certainly would have to have had teachers, other than their "schooled" pastors - so did they obtain these from these "illiterate emigrants"? I think not; these Germans were very literate and had a very high regard for education, even among their women. The PA Germans were also a major force behind not allowing the Public School Law of PA to pass until (I believe) 1853. They did not want to lose control of the education of their youth. So how can anyone say these people did not value education? These people are hard to trace due to them not wanting to leave much of a trace of themselves due to the conditions from whence they came. But, most all will be found *somewhere* - we just have to find the right document!! Just my "educated guess" based on studying the early schools and people in this area from the 1700's. -Linnea Miller Annville, Lebanon Co, PA

Hi Everyone: Found a possible connection to ME!!!! Does anyone have information on a Mary Ellen BAUGHMAN/BACHMAN who married Andrew Kennel. The Kennel's were a very large family in Somerset, Co, PA and it looks like my Baughman line may have married into that line several times. I met someone one on line and I think we may be double cousins. Anyway, please let me know if you have a MARY ELLEN BAUGHMAN. She would have been born about 1842/1843 in Allegany Co., Maryland. Thanks, Genny Baughman Payne ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Hi Group, In researching German ancestors I've come across some statements and ideas that I'm wondering if other researchers have read and possibly checked out: 1. "You can be fairly sure that if you come across a German surname that has been converted to an English spelling, that's a tip-off that the family has been in this country since the 1700's. Later emigrants, 1850 up have their German names spelled as would be found in Germany today." Same idea would apply for Swiss. Therefore SCWARTZ became BLACK, WEISS became WHITE, SCHNEIDER became SNYDER, SCHAEFFER became SHAFER, STAUFFER became STAFFORD, WERI became WEARY, etc, etc., etc. 2. "It's more difficult to trace the 1700's German emigrants because they often were "pioneers" in the formation of newer PA counties - did not have access to schooling and were, therefore, often illiterate, not showing up in early histories to the extent of 1850 + emigrants from Germany whose families in Europe had the advantage of earlier schooling". So the later immigrants would have been more motivated to higher education - especially if they had arrived in Phila. ???? 3. "Because land closer to settled areas around the three original counties, Chester, Phila., and Montgomery being already occupied, the later German settlers had to establish themselves in "newly received formerly Indian areas". Also, "some settlers wanted more space and were eager to move into these areas and petition the government for the establishment of new counties". 4. "There was much preference shown in early records to documenting the Quaker English and other British families - the Germans being somewhat "second-class citizens" causing them to want to be assimilated into the prevailing culture. There came to be much interrmarriage between the Germans and English". 5. "Because of the political climate at the time of the Revolution, many German families assumed "alias" names". (Sure would like to have documented which book that was - it had examples of names common in Berks Co. records). 6. "German naming patterns were in several types, the most common being that the first son was named for the paternal grandfather, then the next son for the maternal grandfather, the boys would alternate back and forth - the first daughter would be named for the maternal grandmother, the second girl for the paternal grandmother, then the girls would alternate." "This naming pattern seemed to pass out of favor about the time of the Civil War." Do others have any "clues" they've come across to help in this German research???? Or, thoughts on the suggestions listed above ????? Thanks, Ann Rickard, SC

In a message dated 99-01-31 12:41:53 EST, you write: > 1. "You can be fairly sure that if you come across a German surname > that has been converted to an English spelling, that's a tip-off that > the family has been in this country since the 1700's. Later emigrants, > 1850 up have their German names spelled as would be found in Germany > today." Same idea would apply for Swiss. > Therefore SCWARTZ became BLACK, WEISS became WHITE, SCHNEIDER became > SNYDER, SCHAEFFER became SHAFER, STAUFFER became STAFFORD, WERI became > WEARY, etc, etc., etc. Ann, I will start off with these--just my opinion but comes from a lot of research on Germanic surnames as you can imagine. I would agree to a point with #1--but not completely. I wouldn't use 1850 as my cut-off point either. In the 1890s and for about 30 years after that names were likely to be changed permanently by papers established at Ellis Island. It really isn't until Social Security and other permanent records were kept that attempts to standardize surname spellings came into being. The formal changes in names made for immigrants coming through Ellis Island was a far more lasting change than the gradual evolution of names that occurred for earlier immgrants. Yes, many earlier German immigrants saw their names changed by gradual evolution of spelling and even translation, but not usually through any determined effort to do so--but more by chance. I have also noted some evolution of Germanic surname even within Europe! I have found in America that Colonial era immigrants experienced name changes far more frequently if they left the PA Dutch counties and spread out to other areas--that is where you see most changes occurring. > > 2. "It's more difficult to trace the 1700's German emigrants because > they often were "pioneers" in the formation of newer PA counties - > did not have access to schooling and were, therefore, often illiterate, > not showing up in early histories to the extent of 1850 + emigrants > from Germany whose families in Europe had the advantage of earlier > schooling". So the later immigrants would have been more motivated > to higher education - especially if they had arrived in Phila. ???? Oh--I would strongly disagree with this one. Wherever did they get THAT I wonder? Although the early immigrants did leave the cities most often and spread out to outlying areas for farmland and other economic and religious reasons, I think the earlier immigrants are easier to follow than the ones who arrived after the termination of the ship lists. Even if the immigrants themselves were uneducated it didn't mean they didn't show up in church and other records such as deeds and wills. Many records from the 18th Century are in book form which make the search easier in my opinion. > > 3. "Because land closer to settled areas around the three original > counties, Chester, Phila., and Montgomery being already occupied, the > later German settlers had to establish themselves in "newly received > formerly Indian areas". > Also, "some settlers wanted more space and were eager to move into > these areas and petition the government for the establishment of new > counties". Well, maybe. BUT I tend to see the later arriving Germans (1850s on up) settling in cities and working in manufacturing jobs and not being farmers in the outlying areas as the earlier settlers were. The later ones also tended to be from different areas in Germany than the earlier ones were and were more often Catholic unlike the earlier mainly Protestant immigrants. > > 4. "There was much preference shown in early records to documenting > the Quaker English and other British families - the Germans being > somewhat "second-class citizens" causing them to want to be assimilated > into the prevailing culture. There came to be much interrmarriage > between the Germans and English". To a certain extent yes--but I think the assimilation came about gradually and not by any predetermined course of action in most cases. I would disagree with the final sentence though--I don't see much intermarriage between the Germans and English--not for several generations in this country at least. They tended to be pretty much a community unto themselves for quite some time--with the exception of those who migrated to areas in which the Germans were in a distinct minority. The ones who moved into Western PA for example very often intermarried with the Scotch-Irish in that area--but these were not first generation Germans for the most part either. > > 5. "Because of the political climate at the time of the Revolution, > many German families assumed "alias" names". (Sure would like to have > documented which book that was - it had examples of names common in > Berks Co. records). > I have NEVER seen this--not to my knowledge--I too would like to know the source for that. By and large the German immigrants supported the Revolutionarey cause--so why would they find a need for aliases? > 6. "German naming patterns were in several types, the most common > being that the first son was named for the paternal grandfather, then > the next son for the maternal grandfather, the boys would alternate > back and forth - the first daughter would be named for the maternal > grandmother, the second girl for the paternal grandmother, then the > girls would alternate." "This naming pattern seemed to pass out of > favor about the time of the Civil War." I have read this many, many times and have seen it used in some families. However, I have found the most common naming pattern is for the child to be named for his sponsor of the same sex at baptism. > > Do others have any "clues" they've come across to help in this German > research???? Or, thoughts on the suggestions listed above ????? > The best "aid" I can think of in researching the early Germans is to pay attention to allied families and follow them if you can't find your own ancestors--where their allied families went they are sure to be found also. Often these alliances can also lead you back to the ancestral European roots as well. Joan

To all: I have started a Reunion Page on our Pennsylvania Family History website. If you would like to post a reunion with Pennsylvania Dutch ties, please contact me and I will get it posted. Our site is at: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~padutch/ Thanks! Don

Appearing on an 1868 map of New Berlin, Union Co., PA, copied from map held by Main Free Library of Phila., PA: BUSINESS LISTINGS: KLECKNER, M. - Proprietor of Union Hotel LILLY, J. P. - Propietor of Baum House (hotel) WILSON, E. - Merchant in dry goods, groceries, paints, oils, etc. GROSS & WILSON - Dealers in dry goods, drugs, medicines, gen. merchan. RATHFON & WINTER - Dealers in Dry goods, Queensware, drugs, medicines SMITH, Edward - Dealer in drugs, medicine, toilet articles, Stationary BAUM, W.B. - Merchant BURG & HOY - Physicians & Surgeons NAGLE, James - Manufacturer of Stoves SCHOCH, James - Tanner and Currier SCHOCH, A. & M.L. - Tanner & Currier HEIMBACH, J.S. - Manufacturer of Coaches ERDLY, Jacob F. - Manufacturer of Wagons MITCHEL, A.F.H. - Manufacturer of Coaches CHRISTINE, D.W. - Manufacturer of Stoves WYLE & BARNES - Maufacture of Boots VANVALSAH, Wilson - Shoe Store MITCHEL, David - Manufacturer of Boots ETTINGER, John A. - Music Teacher SPECHT, Henry H. - Butcher ERDLY, Jos. F. - Blacksmith ROUSH, Chas. D. - Farmer SHIREY, Amos - Farmer STAHL & PELLMAN - Millers and Grain Dealers SEEBOLD, Henry - Farmer Names of some residents of Water St. ZECHMAN, J. RANK, W. DOEBLER, H. STIMMEL, I. SOLOMON, J. YODER, J. EWING, Mrs. SPITLER, A.J. SPITLER, E.S. LEHMAN, J. GEBHART, L. STEINWALK, W. BERKY, A. DREISBACH BAUM, G. WINTER, J. MILLHOUSE, S. NEIMACH ?, J. CORNELIUS, W. LEHMAN, J. SINCLAIR KLECHNER HOLARCHER, Dr. CORNELIUS, M. GROSS, J. Some surnames of other residents appearing on map: MERTZ, SCHOCK, HOFFMAN, SHAFFER, HARRISON, BURG, COOK, MITCHEL, KESSLER, ORWIG, HECKENDORN, GUIER, RATHFON, MAUCK, BISHOP, BOGER, BENNER, SWARTMAN, KOHLER, BOUGHMILLER, CUSHION, RUELY ?, CARROLL, BENFER, HENDRICKS, LEBLEICH, BURKHOLDER, KING, WYLE, FRANK, SCEBOLET, BEAVER, ROUSH, MAIZE, VALLERSCHAMP ?, YEAGER, MARKS, AURAND, WEINBACH, TAYLOR, COLDT, LOTZ, HARLACKER, WINTER, HACHENBERG, WETZEL, PHILLIPS. Outside of town (close-by rural): Dr. J.R. LOTZ, UNION SEMINARY, R.S. WINTER, H. Walker, C. WINTER, G. DIEHL, J. WINTER, I. SLENKER, H. WALKER, T. BOWDEN, J. CHRISTINE, J. SHAMORY.

Connie: We publish several books on fraktur, including one called Papers for Birth Dayes: Guide to the Fraktur Artists and Scriveners. It's for serious students of fraktur, for it is over 900 pages with black and white illustrations. We can send you more information if you are interested in our books about fraktur. Let us know. Don't want to post a commercial message here, of course, so please write: Corinne Earnest, Russell D. Earnest Associates, P.O. Box 1007, East Berlin, PA 17316-0507. In addition, we publish articles on fraktur in AntiqueWeek (which has a great genealogy section), Der Kurier (quarterly newsletter of the Mid-Atlantic Germanic Society), and Penn Pal (quarterly newsletter of the Pennsylvania Chapter of Palatines to America). These articles are for genealogists looking for family names on fraktur. There is no charge for our research for these articles, but we are very backed up with requests, so we ask for patience should you decide to subscribe to these publications. Again, we can send you more information if you like. Corinne

Thanks for the help. I hadn't seen these spellings. These are close to the spelling, for sure. What is Strassburger and Hinke? I am not familiar with that reference. Thanks again Linda Ryhal Mercer Co., Pa. ---------- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PENNA-DUTCH-L] Richel surname > Date: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 10:17 PM > > In a message dated 99-01-27 22:09:24 EST, you write: > > > I am looking for any information on Richel surname. It was later spelled > > Ryhal. My gr. gr. gr. grandfather was William S. Richel b. 1818 and he > > lived in Springfield Twp., Mercer Co. I have been told the Richel's are > > German. But can find nothing on ships lists, naturalizations, etc. > > concerning this spelling. If anyone can help I would appreciate it. > > Linda, I would try some variations of the spelling. In Strassburger and Hinke > I can find: > > Reichel: > Henry > Johan Deys > Johann Jorg (John George) > Johannes > > Reichheld: > Pancratius > > Reichle: > Georg Christoph > > Reichly: > Wilhelm > > I would start by looking for those spellings. > > Joan > > > ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== > Glad you are here! Share some of your genealogy with others.

I am looking for any information on Richel surname. It was later spelled Ryhal. My gr. gr. gr. grandfather was William S. Richel b. 1818 and he lived in Springfield Twp., Mercer Co. I have been told the Richel's are German. But can find nothing on ships lists, naturalizations, etc. concerning this spelling. If anyone can help I would appreciate it. Linda Ryhal Mercer Co, Pa.

Does anyone know anything about the Fraktur artists of PA and where I might find examples of the work? Thank you, Connie Brubaker Wells Co IN