Joan, Thank you for your suggestion about being cautious. I am receiving a tremendous amount of porn mail. I just send it to TOSSpam, but it is extremely irritating. One does not know who is lurking out in cyberspace. It also bothers me when individuals want to sell public information. That is why I have been willing to contribute to rootsweb. Their purpose is for the good of all, not just a few. Now you all have my two cents. Take care, Anne

> >I received this from aother list and thought there might be interest in helping. > > > >>UNITED STATES CENSUS DESTROYED BY FIRE: > >> > >>Hello, > >>As you might or might not know 99% of the 1890 United States Census > was > >>destroyed by fire. So a book of ALL living United States residents > of > >>1890 > >>is being compiled from descendants like you. If you would like to > >>contribute > >>your ancestor's to this vital history book, please email > >>([email protected]) or snail mail > >>Angela Foster > >>P.O. Box 2551 > >>Waterville, Maine 04903 > >>the following information on your ancestor's. > >>Submitting your information is free. > >> > >>HEAD of Household full name (first-middle-last): > >>" " " age: > >>" " " date born (month-day-year): > >>" " " place born (town-county-state or country): > >>" " " residence (town-county-state): > >> > >>SPOUSE's full name (maiden surname in ( )'s if available): > >>" age: > >>" date born (month-day-year): > >>" place born (town-county-state or country): > >> > >>{please note * list all children and their data separately from one > >>another} > >>ALL Children's full names (first-middle-last), age's: > >>" date born (month-day-year): > >>" place born (town-county-state or country): > >> > >>Please fill in as much information as you can. If you are not sure > of > >>any > >>of > >>the information, please fill in your best estimate and follow it > with a > >>? > >>mark. > >> > >>Thank you for your contribution to this vital genealogy book. > >> > >>P.S. > >>Please forward this to everyone who might be interested in > >>contributing. Thank you. > > > > > -- http://home.pacbell.net/rclevela/index.html

In a message dated 5/12/99 4:53:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > > >I received this from aother list and thought there might be interest in > helping. > > > > > >>UNITED STATES CENSUS DESTROYED BY FIRE: > > >> > > >>Hello, > > >>As you might or might not know 99% of the 1890 United States Census > > was > > >>destroyed by fire. So a book of ALL living United States residents > > of > > >>1890 > > >>is being compiled from descendants like you. If you would like to > > >>contribute > > >>your ancestor's to this vital history book, please email > > >>([email protected]) or snail mail > > >>Angela Foster > > >>P.O. Box 2551 > > >>Waterville, Maine 04903 > > >>the following information on your ancestor's. > > >>Submitting your information is free. > > > Hi all- This has been making its way around the mailing lists and the newsgroups for the last week or so, and I have done some checking on ChinaDoll2 and what I have learned makes this "project" sound much like a Halbert's type operation. In a follow-up newsgroup post after someone pointed out that this would be way too much of a project for one person to tackle--even the LDS has not been able to reconstruct the 1890 census with all of their vast resources--she replied that it was NOT her intention to recontruct the census-she is merely collecting whatever records people can send her hit or miss (and very kindly not CHARGING them for SUBMITTING THEIR information to HER) and then turning around and putting that information (whatever it might turn out to be) into a book and trying to sell it for a profit back to those very same people who submitted the information in the first place. I think I would be very cautious about this one. Joan

Not to belabor the point, but I just received this through the Indiana listserv which states eBay's position. I think each of us who wrote eBay concerning these tombstone auctions are to be commended for bringing this to their attention! -Linnea ------------BEGIN FORWARD--------------- >Delivered-To: [email protected] >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 14:35:41 -0500 >Reply-To: "Stephens, Larry V" <[email protected]> >Sender: SuperList of Genealogy Lists <[email protected]> >From: "Stephens, Larry V" <[email protected]> >Subject: stolen tombstones at auction >To: [email protected] > >It has been reported on several lists that tombstones and grave markers - >allegedly stolen - are being sold on the Internet auction service eBay. > >Below is further information that has been forwarded to me. PLEASE NOTE: >Please don't ask me about the information below. After you read it you'll >know as much as I do. > >------- > >I received the following information from Rob Chesnut, >Associate General Counsel for eBay. The company >has been made aware of the legitimate concerns we >have regarding the auctioning of used grave markers - >an act which is both offensive and criminal. If you have , >questions or comments you can contact Rob Chesnut at >(408) 558-5948 or [email protected] . >=========================== > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >May 4, 1999 > > eBay has recently been contacted by citizens who have expressed concern >over the fact that several historical tombstones have appeared for sale on >the eBay site. We share your concern, and will not permit these items to >be sold on our site. This release is intended to answer several questions >that have been raised in connection with these items. > > First, eBay does not sell or possess the items on its site. eBay is a >venue where users post items for sale, and sellers complete transactions >directly with buyers. eBay does not, and has never, possessed any >historical tombstone. > >Second, as an Internet Service Provider, eBay cannot and does not >pre-screen items posted on its site. While eBay rules strictly prohibit >the posting of illicit items such as tombstones, it cannot guarantee that >all its users will abide by these rules in posting items for sale. > >When eBay learns that an illicit item is on its site, it promptly removes >the item. However, with approximately 2 million items for sale at any >given time, and with over 250,000 new items placed on the site each day, >some illicit items may go unnoticed for several days. We depend on our >community to work with us in locating and identifying illicit items so that >we can quickly remove them. > > In this case, eBay has promptly removed every tombstone brought to its >attention, informed the sellers that such markers are not allowed on the >site, and refunded all fees in connection with these auctions to ensure >that eBay has in no way received money for this activity. To discourage >future listings of tombstones on the site, eBay will also be posting rules >on its site shortly regarding the sale of artifacts which will specifically >inform users that the sale of historical tombstones is illegal in many >states and is prohibited on eBay. > >eBay has received information that at least some of the items brought to >our attention are not tombstones, but historical grave markers given to >families of Civil War veterans. In many cases, these grave markers were >never actually used as grave markers, but kept by families as mementos. In >those instances, the markers are not stolen property, and if they were >never used as for tombstones their sale may be lawful. eBay is >investigating whether these items can be lawfully sold, and will post >information on the site when it makes a final decision. > >eBay will be contacting law enforcement and encouraging authorities to >investigate whether historical marker posted on its site was stolen. eBay >will cooperate fully in any investigation of illegal activity, and will >provide records to law enforcement on the sellers of any illegal item. eBay >appreciates the efforts of those who have contacted us concerning these >postings. Concerned law enforcement authorities or interested citizens may >contact Associate General Counsel Rob Chesnut at (408) 558-5948 if they >have further questions on this matter. >

Don: This is all I know so far: Henrietta Hoffman (born 1870) was my mothers maternal grandmother. She married first James William Grimes, then Michael James Crumlich (Father was Joseph) and finally William Moody, she died around 1940. Her parents were Henry Hoffman and Elizabeth Bortner (widow?). Henrietta had twin sisters, Elizabeth and Katie (born 1871). Elizabeth Hoffman married a Cooley. Henrietta was born in Latimore, PA and married the first time in Idaville, PA. Lived the rest of her life in Dillsburg, PA. Henrietta's mother Elizabeth could have been a widow, I don't know yet. --------- My grandmother, Mildred Crumlich Zeigler (Henrietta's only daughter) married John Jacob Zeigler. His father was Nathaniel W. Zeigler and he married 2nd Sarah Lau, they lived near Dillsburg (York Co.). Sarah's father was John Lau and mother, Barbara, maiden name unknown. Nathaniel's father was Jacob G. Zeigler (born abt. 1845) and he married an Isabelle, maiden name unknown. Jacob died bet. 1910-1920. And Isabelle was still living at the taking of 1920 census with her son Jacob in Cumberland Co. PA Let me know if any of this sounds familiar. Thanks, Debbie Drake Hogue > >Sound like York County, PA names. What is your Bortner lineage? > >Thanks! > >Don

I have bortner-Bordner & Hoffmans, what do you want Names & tell me abt what year to look up. mae [email protected] wrote: > In a message dated 5/4/99 4:06:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > > I am new to the list. I am researching the following families: > > > > BORTNER > > CRUMLICH > > HOFFMAN > > LAU > > ZEIGLER > > Hi Debbie- > > Welcome to our list. Another place you can list the surnames you are > researching is on our PADutch GenConnect Query Board that serves > PADUTCHgenONLY, Penna-Dutch, and PADUTCH-LIFE. You can find it at the > following URL: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Pa/Dutch > > Be sure to include the surnames in the surnames box as well as within the > body of your message. By posting the surnames on the board it will be > universally searchable in the future by other researchers. Of course you > will most likely find a few cousins on these lists as well. > > Thanks! > > Joan > > ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== > Keep those PA DUTCH traditions alive and share them with the list.

Debbie. Ihave just aboutall the bordners you need what names are you searching and what years. Mae Debbie Hogue wrote: > I am new to the list. I am researching the following families: > > BORTNER > CRUMLICH > HOFFMAN > LAU > ZEIGLER > > Debbie Drake Hogue > Sandston, VA > > ==== PENNA-DUTCH Mailing List ==== > Do a good turn for another and see what comes back...

In a message dated 5/4/99 2:01:33 PM Mountain Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: << I am new to the list. I am researching the following families: BORTNER CRUMLICH HOFFMAN LAU ZEIGLER >> Sound like York County, PA names. What is your Bortner lineage? Thanks! Don

I am new to the list. I am researching the following families: BORTNER CRUMLICH HOFFMAN LAU ZEIGLER Debbie Drake Hogue Sandston, VA

In a message dated 5/4/99 4:06:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > I am new to the list. I am researching the following families: > > BORTNER > CRUMLICH > HOFFMAN > LAU > ZEIGLER Hi Debbie- Welcome to our list. Another place you can list the surnames you are researching is on our PADutch GenConnect Query Board that serves PADUTCHgenONLY, Penna-Dutch, and PADUTCH-LIFE. You can find it at the following URL: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Pa/Dutch Be sure to include the surnames in the surnames box as well as within the body of your message. By posting the surnames on the board it will be universally searchable in the future by other researchers. Of course you will most likely find a few cousins on these lists as well. Thanks! Joan

We now have GenConnect Boards in place for the posting of Bible Records, Biographies, Deeds, Obituaries, Pensions, and Wills for both Frederick County and Washington County, MD. Please feel free to fill them up with pertinent documents! :-) The new boards can be found at the following URLs (don't forget we already have a Query Board in place for both counties which you can link to from any of the pages listed below): http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Md/FrederickBibl http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Md/FrederickBios http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Md/FrederickDeed http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Md/FrederickObits http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Md/FrederickPens http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Md/FrederickWill http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Md/WashingtonBibl http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Md/WashingtonBios http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Md/WashingtonDeed http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Md/WashingtonObits http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Md/WashingtonPens http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Md/WashingtonWill Thanks! Joan

Back by popular demand! Per your request, the Genealogical Society of PA will continue to be open the SECOND Saturdays of each month UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE! The hours are: 10:00 a.m. until 4:45 p.m. The Genealogical Society of Pennsylvania is located in Center City Philadelphia at 1305 Locust Street between 13th and Broad Streets, (above Girasole's Restaurant), a few blocks south of City Hall.

This was forwarded to me from another list - and it is true - Grave markers are actually being sold on eBay auctions - I have responded to eBay, as well as the sellers of these items - I am outraged! Forward this to every genealogist and group on the net. Protest to E-Bay. Report all participants to AOL, Earthlink, etc. >> Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 07:59:23 -0400 >> From: [email protected] >> To: [email protected] >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: These Civil War Markers and .....are being sold. >> Content-Type: text/plain >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> >> Thank you again, Carlene. Below is the information on the grave markers >> you have alerted us about. Have sent an e-mail to eBay, and to each >> seller, reminding them that these items were once in place on someone's >> grave, and that each state has laws forbidding vandalism to graves. I >> encourage all on this list to respond to eBay and/or to the sellers as >> you feel led. >> Annette Elam Wezel >> >> #95765135 is a GAR grave marker, marked "County Commissioners, West >> Chester, PA." The seller refers to its having been 'used.' The name of >> the seller is "1sterling," and the item is located in New Jersey. The >> seller's e-mail address is: [email protected] >> #95765620 is also a GAR grave marker, in a different style, marked with >> the number "15" in the design of the front, with the back marked only >> "AMERICA," which may refer to the foundry. Again, the seller refers to >> 'signs of use.' Same location, same seller, same address. >> >> #96301772 is a Korean War veterans grave marker. The seller is located in >> West Tennessee. The seller's e-mail address is: [email protected] >> >> #98328212 is a "World War Veterans Marker." Possibly World War I, but I >> am not sure of that. Located in Michigan. Sellers address is >> [email protected] >> >> #96742252 is World War II Veterans grave marker. Advertised as an "eagle >> grave marker presented by the County Commissioners." Back marked >> "Philadelphia, PA," but that may again refer to a foundry. Located in >> Penndel, PA. Sellers address is [email protected] >> >> On Sun, 2 May 1999 00:42:56 -0500 "Carlene M. Wojahn" >> <[email protected]> writes: >> >Since it was pointed out to me about a month ago that grave markers >> >are sold on the ebay auction site., I sporadically check it out. >> >These auctions are now in process, and this greatly concerns me, for >> >doesn't this encourage theft of these markers ? Where did the person >> >selling these markers get them from ? >> >Carlene M. Wojahn >> >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=95765135 >> >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=95765620 >> >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=96301772 >> >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=98328212 >> >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=96742252 Jeff Wallick

To all: Since the passing of Don Speidell, the Washington and Frederick Cos. USGENWEB sites have moved to Rootsweb: Their new addresses are: Frederick County http://www.rootsweb.com/~mdfreder/ Washington County http://www.rootsweb.com/~mdwashin/ If you have family websites that pertain to these areas, please send me the urls as I will add links from these sites. Thanks! Don Hartman

Linnea, Joan et al Many thanks for your help. Much good assistance on this list as always. " The published Pennsylvania Archives are a series of (I think) 136 volumes published in the last half of the 19th century which attempts to compile all historical evidence on the history of Pennsylvania. What you have referred to is Series 2, Volume 17. For a pretty good summary of what is included in each of these series go to: <http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/3955/PAarchives.html> -Linnea Linnea Travis Miller - Annville PA Mike Judd

At 18:59 4/28/99, Mike Judd wrote: > >SHIPS TO PENNSYLVANIA and OATHS OF ALLEGIANCE, 1727-1775 >[REF: The Pennsylvania Archives 2:17] > >Is there more complete information readily available on "The Pennsylvania >Archives" that someone could provide? > >Thanks much. > > >Mike Judd > The published Pennsylvania Archives are a series of (I think) 136 volumes published in the last half of the 19th century which attempts to compile all historical evidence on the history of Pennsylvania. What you have referred to is Series 2, Volume 17. For a pretty good summary of what is included in each of these series go to: <http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/3955/PAarchives.html> -Linnea Linnea Travis Miller - Annville PA also at: [email protected] [email protected] See my genealogy homepage mostly on Lebanon Co PA at: <http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/9263>

Here I am with another question on those ship's lists. Hope someone call help. In the List of foreigners imported in the ship Elizabeth, Edward Lee, Master, from Rotterdam. Qualified Aug. 27, 1733 my Simon LANDER (LINDER) Jr. at age 16 shows as the youngest person on the list. I am led to believe there were other younger children in the family, plus a wife/mother. I don't see any female names that jump out to me. Would it be customary not to list women and children perhaps below the age of 16 or so? Thanks for any...again Mike Judd

"I found the list that you are referring to at the following URL: http://www.rootsweb.com/~GENHOME/imm16e.htm but it doesn't say if the ship landed in Philadelphia. I found it by doing a search in infoseek for "passenger list" and then a search within that typing in "Friendship". And thanks to you I now have a full listing (I hope) of the Elizabeth when it pulled in from Rotterdam in 1733. My question, and I did not find a way to email the authors of this very fine website to ask them, is how exactly do I reference this list? I see the following SHIPS TO PENNSYLVANIA and OATHS OF ALLEGIANCE, 1727-1775 [REF: The Pennsylvania Archives 2:17] Is there more complete information readily available on "The Pennsylvania Archives" that someone could provide? Thanks much. Mike Judd

In a message dated 4/28/99 7:16:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > List of foreigners imported in the ship Elizabeth, Edward Lee, Master, from > Rotterdam. Qualified Aug. 27, 1733 > > my Simon LANDER (LINDER) Jr. at age 16 shows as the youngest person on the > list. I am led to believe there were other younger children in the family, > plus a wife/mother. I don't see any female names that jump out to me. Mike- yep--Simon, Sr., and Jr. are on that list. > > Would it be customary not to list women and children perhaps below the age > of 16 or so? It all depended on the ship captain--most did not list children under 16 or woman. The reason was that the purpose of the lists was to record those passengers who were required to take the oath of allegiance to the British Crown and the government of Pennsylvania--and those were the men 16 and over. For a more complete explanation please see the following page on our PADutch Website: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~padutch/faqs/ships.html Joan

In a message dated 4/28/99 7:03:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > SHIPS TO PENNSYLVANIA and OATHS OF ALLEGIANCE, 1727-1775 > [REF: The Pennsylvania Archives 2:17] > > Is there more complete information readily available on "The Pennsylvania > Archives" that someone could provide? Mike- The Pennsylvania Archives Series 2, volume 17 would be the reference. These lists in the Archives are not as complete or accurate as the listings in the Strassburger and Hinke book Pennsylvania German Pioneers. Who are you looking for on the Elizabeth? Joan