Hello Brian Thank you for your suggestion of John born 1771 in Crawley but unfortunately he doesn't fit as I have all the info on John Penfold & Mary Gooding expect now where he was born and his parents. I have his 5 children all baptised Hawkhurst the youngest being named Benedicta and I have Mary the widow of John on the 1841 & 1851 census with this daughter and her family.On both census returns it states she is a widow. I also have Benedicta's marriage and as it is a fairly unusual name I feel sure I have the right family. 1851 Census - (100) Paper Mill Hill, Hawkhurst, Kent. HO107 1619 Page 26 & 27 Folio 393 Samuel Oliver Head 38 Ag Lab Hawkhurst Benedicta wife 32 " Samuel son 11 scholar " Charlotte dau 8 " " Mary Penfold M-in-law 71 widow " Mary Penfold nee Gooding died 23 June 1853 - Hawkhurst aged 74 years. On the death certificate it states she was the widow of John Penfold Agricultural Labourer and the informant was Samuel Oliver present at death Hawkhurst. I had always thought he was the son of John Penfold and Sarah Sprenge as their son John was baptised in Hawkhurst in 1780 as were their other two children. John & Mary married in Hawkhurst in 1804 where they remained bringing up their family. Mary was born about 1779 and I had assumed that John baptised 1780 was her husband. There only seems to have been the one John in Hawkhurst at that time as it would appear John Baptised 1780 moved to Cranbrook where he married Ann Hickman and he died 24 June 1847 Cranbrook and Ann Penfold was the informant and was present at the death. So it would seem this was John the son of John & Sarah. So this leaves me to find a John born about 1768 who was 11 years older than his wife and could have been born anywhere. Any help would be very welcome. Regards Joy