Dear Jessie Payne Day, Hi I was wondering where your family came from. But I had a great uncle with the name Jesse Payne Smith . Are you two related? Sincerely Sherry Davis-Ellis Arizona USA PAYNE-D-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > Subject: > > PAYNE-D Digest Volume 99 : Issue 188 > > Today's Topics: > #1 Re: Throwing in the towel: [Bryant548@aol.com] > #2 Re: Malockie Paine/Henry Paine ["diane k" <skunk@coastalnet.com>] > #3 Hi ["Karlen Day" <daycross@bright.net>] > #4 Quitting ["David Payne" <otime@hotmail.com>] > #5 Re: throwing in the proverbial tow ["lankford" <lankford@gte.net>] > #6 Re: throwing in the proverbial tow [Olson <mjo@accessone.com>] > #7 Re: Don't quit Patrick ["Diann Payne" <diann@f1.net.au>] > #8 Re: throwing in the proverbial tow [Wesley Gann <wesgann@bellsouth.net] > #9 J.G.Payne [Sherry Davis-Ellis <bluefairies@us] > #10 Re: throwing in the proverbial tow [William McMahon <wmcm@connecti.com] > #11 Re: throwing in the proverbial tow [Bill Hobbs <hobbs@usit.net>] > #12 throwing in the towel ["Martha W. Acker" <mwacker@bellsou] > #13 Re: throwing in the towel ["Megan Payne" <megan@demoroom.com>] > #14 Re: Patrick Payne's Towel ["Raymond L. Gann" <gannrl@fullnet.] > > Administrivia: > To unsubscribe from PAYNE-D, send a message to > > PAYNE-D-request@rootsweb.com > > that contains in the body of the message the command > > unsubscribe > > and no other text. No subject line is necessary, but if your software > requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, too. > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: Throwing in the towel: > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:18:10 EDT > From: Bryant548@aol.com > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Cousins, > I just joined this list about a week ago. The first mail I got was sent > privately instead of the list. The quote was, "there are a lot of people > there who have to be right ( whether they are not.) The arguing and insults > got old." > > Now we have this dialogue going on about throwing in the towel! What is > the matter with you people. Is this part of the Payne personality? People > on other list that I belong to don't act this way. I though it was all about > helping one another to gather as much information as possible then prove or > disprove the information together as a team. > > I am amazed! > > Barbara Bryant > Clearwater FL and Wakefield, PQ > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: Malockie Paine/Henry Paine > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:50:37 -0400 > From: "diane k" <skunk@coastalnet.com> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Hello, I want to thank you for replying to me about Henry Paine. > > I found it all very very interesting and helpful. > > sorry I didn't get back right away. I am just swamped with mail and every > now and then I accidently hit the "mark all as read" key and then really > get behind. > > Anyone know how to "undo" the "mark all as read" key? > > Thanks Pat for being so quick to share. > > diane > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Hi > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:04:58 -0400 > From: "Karlen Day" <daycross@bright.net> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Hi My name is Jessie Payne Day I've have been reading your e'mail > messages with great interest, but I have come to the conclusion that you > must not be from my Payne family. If anybody said anything derogatory to > any of us, we immediately bristled and went after them - how dare they say > that. Maybe you got that soft heart from your Mothers side. And believe > me that's good to be sensitive - however, don't let some boor out there > that don't even like themself or anybody else that's doing something good > for other people stop you. Get your dander up and know there are lots of > us out here that say thank you. I'm 65 years old and don't fully > understand this computer and not even sure I have your right address, but I > trust in God that you will receive this. > > God Bless you and Please don't give up > > Jessie Payne Day > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Quitting > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:08:06 PDT > From: "David Payne" <otime@hotmail.com> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Patrick, > I for one have been enjoying your info that keeps coming in on the list. > Please don't stop. Just ignore the stiffs. > If you quit, let me know where I can find your info. I am having trouble > getting info from your site. > Don't you have a Rootsweb list? I have lost it. > Please dont give up. > David > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: throwing in the proverbial towel > Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 18:55:17 -0400 > From: "lankford" <lankford@gte.net> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Hi Patrick, > > I joined this list to ck on a relattive of my Uncle's. He is in his 80's > and never knew his family not even his Father. His Fathher died when he was > 9 mos. old. His GMother was Emma Payne from Kent, England. I have stayed > with the list because of you. The research you do is extremely interesting > and stirs many questions. I wish there was a visible researcher for my > Father's line. (Lankford) > > I have learned a great deal about research just by reading your posts. I > have visited your site and enjoyed it thoroughly. I often go back just to > see what you have discovered or to get ideas of what documents might hold a > clue for me. Please understand your research, if read thourghly, benafits > others even if they are not researching the Payne line. > > HIT THE DELETE KEY. Those of us who are interested in our heritage for our > Families understand and thoes who don't -------OH WELL. > > Mary Ann > in Florida > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: throwing in the proverbial towel > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:57:09 -0700 > From: Olson <mjo@accessone.com> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > > Patrick, > > My grandmother always said, when I was particularly upset, "If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear > it." I have learned so much from your posts and look forward to them. Don't let those Payne's > in the neck get the better of you. > > Every Payne in my family has a wonderful quality, we are all stubborn! So get your Payne up and > hit that delete button! > > Cherie R. Olson > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: Don't quit Patrick > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:01:24 +1000 > From: "Diann Payne" <diann@f1.net.au> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Patrick, > Yes, I am another who appreciates your postings. And finally I might even > have done enough family history to be able to connect my Paynes to those > back in the early 1700s and 1600s. I appreciate all the clues I can get > about my family history. > Regards, > Diann Payne > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: throwing in the proverbial towel > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 19:12:17 -0400 > From: Wesley Gann <wesgann@bellsouth.net> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > While I have not been on this list too long, I can tell you that I have lines > that want to argue and alienate over the spelling of a name, much less hanky > panky between cousins etc. If I had let this get to me I would have quit > searching for my "families" about as soon as I got started. If you leave now, > you will only leave a void for researchers looking only for the truth, that > void being filled by those that mutually, we can all do without. > Best of Wishes With Your Decision > Wesley Gann > Patrick Payne wrote: > > > For some, this will be a welcome post and one long overdue... > > > > This will be my last post to this list. It seems there are those out there > > that are hell bent on twisting my words and discrediting my research > > efforts- without once referring to the records. These people have NEVER > > visited my web site to review the records available there (one reason that > > I required registration in the first place), base their attacks solely on > > my posts to the list (- after mixing my words around to suit their > > purpose), have made NO EFFORT to study the records of the over one dozen > > ACTIVE PAYNE mariners of the 17th century (that nobody ever seems to > > discuss or even mention), refuse to believe there is ANY possibility of a > > relationship between branches- although there is tons of evidence within > > *these* records that strongly suggest otherwise. Regardless of what anyone > > believes about these families or what the truth will ultimately turn out to > > be- these records deserve our study as all published sources are silent on > > them. We have glaring holes in our research if we don't include them. > > Moreover, I have raised numerous questions that deserve some answers. We > > are "missing the boat" if we don't account for them or consider the > > importance of the facts that they owned and captained ships (THE SAME > > SHIPS!) throughout the 17th century, regularly intermarried and associated > > with families of the same surnames (- no matter where we find them and over > > a period of decades, not just a couple of records- mounds of them), were > > involved in such large enterprises as iron works (not just in New England > > either) which was a very significant concern in those days, intermarried > > and associated with some of the most notable clergymen of the day, or a > > host of other important considerations that is NEVER brought to the > > forefront of our research. I simply tried to address those issues that we > > otherwise never hear about. > > > > There are OTHER WAYS to prove relationships apart from a record that says > > Joe was the son of John DOE! A record like that might be ideal, but in the > > early 17th century, we may never have that luxury and we therefore must > > make the best use of ALL THE DATA we have available to us. Yes- that means > > that we will sometimes have to wade through some dung to find the gold. > > Those that refuse to do so and wait on the magic record to appear, in my > > opinion, are the ones responsible for both limiting progress and alienating > > some fine researchers from contributing their finds. In short, if you are > > going to criticize someone, at least have the consideration to have given > > their ideas serious thought and study. If you haven't even LOOKED at it- > > what right do you have? It's as if these people believe that solely because > > I have found the same names occurring in records that I have somehow > > determined that there is a relationship between them! This only goes to > > show that they have not been paying attention :-} > > > > I will be leaving my web site on-line but I do not know if I will continue > > trying to make updates to it. Haven't decided yet... The mailing lists will > > also remain active, although I will probably seek a new owner for them. I > > hate to do this to the many kind folks I have met over the years who have > > given me their support. Unfortunately, for every 100 letters of support I > > get, the few I get from these others ruins any satisfaction I would get > > from my effort. It makes it all seem pointless and has made me think about > > who I am doing this for anyway? The answer is for myself and my family. > > > > I don't think some people realize the time, effort, and money that I have > > sunk into this project. Over nearly three years, I have pursued this > > "hobby" virtually full-time. I don't mean 8 hours per day either. Every > > waking and free moment has been spent on it. I left my job (as an > > administrator with a high-tech company) in order to pursue this research > > unhindered by any other responsibilities. Since that time, I have spent > > roughly 18 hours per day and literally thousands of dollars in savings for > > travel costs, books, memberships, and professional assistance. I did not > > do this on a whim. I did it because I was convinced by *these* records > > (combined with known facts) that I was on to something *and* I still > > believe that! Over the past several months, many others have come to feel > > this way too as every week it seems I would receive some information that > > coincides perfectly with the story I have been putting together. They, too, > > are becoming excited about the new doors that have opened for them. This > > support has come from not only PAYNE researchers, but Allied families as > > well. I have received encouragement from noted historians, such as > > Professor Bailyn (please read "The New England Merchants of the 17th > > Century") and others. I suppose I'm being rather "thin-skinned" in the long > > run, but it's just not worth it anymore. At a time when the research has > > been yielding some of its best results too! > > > > I would like to think that I am an intelligent person with an above > > average ability in abstract reasoning, problem-solving, etc. My IQ, as last > > tested by the military, was 128. I passed the air-traffic controllers exam > > with a score of 97 (102 if I include my veterans preference points). If > > anyone has ever picked up a study guide for that exam in a bookstore, you > > know that this was no easy accomplishment! You may wonder, "what does THAT > > have to do with genealogy research?" Much more than you would think, > > believe me! One of the prime reasons of the test is to determine the > > ability to recognize patterns and recurring events. I don't include this as > > some form of self-praise. Just to show I'm no idiot, as some would > > apparently label me. > > > > Lastly, I want to say how unfortunate it is that I am not alone in my > > feelings. I have met several researchers who simply have given up for the > > same reasons- a few bad apples who do not realize the insult they give. > > Maybe I am guilty of it too. I understand that many of you have been > > researching for years and years- possibly even longer than I've been alive! > > But that is NO EXCUSE for some of the letters I have received. Just because > > you may have spent the last 100 years researching, it does not mean that > > there is no room for alternate ways of thinking. Nor does it give you > > license to become the PAYNE POLICE and attack others. If you disagree with > > the research of others, point out SPECIFIC items. But DO NOT just attack > > every aspect of their effort! > > > > Good Luck to you "thicker-skinned" folks out there. I'm not admitting > > defeat- just moving on to avoid people like these- who uncannily seem to > > all be on this list! But- there I go using my brain again to draw > > conclusions based on observation and record ;-} The very thing that caused > > this mess to begin with! Those of you who would like to keep in touch with > > me will know how to reach me and I look forward to hearing from you. It's > > just time to become a little less public for fear of being trounced. Walls > > may come down here and there, but this is the biggest one we face. Until it > > comes down, no significant advances will be made on answering many of the > > questions. Everyone is to afraid to ask them or suggest solutions for them- > > because they are not based on the same old outdated accounts of the 1930's > > that we have grown accustomed to. While those accounts have their place, > > they are but foundations to build on at this point. Just like the > > historians accounts of Colonial America, these, too, have limited > > themselves to particular areas of settlement- Virginia, Massachusetts, > > Maine, Connecticut, etc... There is a bigger picture out there folks! > > > > I hope we all come to realize that one day. Buck the norm. Be original and > > consider everything- no matter how outlandish you may think it is. It may > > be the key you need. > > > > A last contribution on a happy note- although no PAYNE's are mentioned in > > the following, it does have its place in PAYNE research for those that will > > look for it. It was posted to the LONDON-COMPANYS-L list today: > > > > "The Story of the Pilgrim Fathers, > > 1606-1623 A.D." by Edward Arber > > Chapter "The two Virginia Companies" > > Page 254 > > "The Rev. Doctor E.D. Neill adds, "He was hired by Daniel Gookin, owner > > of the Providence, to take that ship to Virginia which arrived April > > 10th, 1623.[see S.P. Colonial, Vol.II, 10 April 1623]." > > This reference refers to John Clarke, hired by Gookin. John had taken > > cattle from Ireland to Virginia in 1619. > > > > On this site,http://www.ida.net/users/dhanco/names.htm#names1, I found > > the following: > > 1644 > > Daniel Gookin (1612-1687), son of an early Irish settler in Virginia, > > moves to Massachusetts and eventually becomes a member of the > > Governor's > > Council, major general of the militia, and superintendent of Indian > > affairs. > > Are we talking about the same family here??? > > > > At this site: > > > > http://www.historichamptonroads.com/Documents/Definitions/Definitions.htm > > > > Marie's Mount: Pronounced "Mary’s". Located in current day downtown > > Newport News. Marie's Mount was named after the wife of the first known > > settler in Newport News, Daniel Gookin, Sr. > > > > Here: > > > > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dave_rigney/history/history.htm > > >From Adventures of Purse and Person > > > > William Cole (William) bought, 1671, the "Bolthrupe" plantation of 1350 > > acres lying on the Warwick River between "Denbigh," the > > Mathews plantation, and "Windmill Point," the seat of the Carys. In > > addition, on 20 April 1685 Cole acquired 1433 acres laying > > largely in Warwick County but partly in Elizabeth City, "commonly called > > Newport News according to the most ancient and lawful > > bounds." This was the major portion of a grant to the heirs of Daniel > > Gookin, who had settled at Newport News, March 1621/22. > > It extended along the James River from its mouth approximately four > > miles. > > And here: > > > > http://www.heritagebooks.com/neweng.htm > > > > The Register, Vol. 4, 1850 - Genealogies: Bradford; Davenport; Gilbert; > > Gookin; Leverett; Otis; Wentworth; Winslow; Wright. > > Records: physicians of Ipswich MA; Saybrook CT vr; list of Freemen; > > Dover NH town records; Plymouth Co MA wills; Suffolk > > Co MA wills; Boston area vr; Weymouth MA vr; passengers for VA; Wrentham > > MA vr; marr & deaths from news.; Dorchester > > MA inscr; Marshfield MA inscr; Gloucester MA vr; Reprint, 388 pp., > > index. paper, $31.00 #ZNR04 > > > > One of Daniel's men: > > > > http://www.esva.net/ghotes/saxis/d2/i0012015.htm > > Henry immigrated to 1623.(10339) Henry was living after 1632/3 in > > Accawmack Co, VA.(10340) Henry's will was probated 26 Nov > > 1635 in Accawmack Co, VA.(10341) Henry Carsley came to Virginia in 1623 > > in the "Providence" and at the age of 23 years when > > the muster was taken in Feb 1624/5, was living at Newport News, VA, as > > one of Daniel Gookin's men. Henry was a headright > > named in Daniel Gookin's patent for 2500 acres in Upper Norfolk Co, 29 > > > > Dec 1637, pursuant to order of court, 25 Feb 1634/5. The > > shipping and cattle breeding enterprise projected by Gookin did not > > prosper and Henry Carsley migrated to the Eastern Shore > > where many settlers began to take up land after the 1621/2 massacre. On > > 19 Feb 1633/4 Carsley petitioned the court held at"Accawmack" for a > > lease of 50 acres upon Old Plantation Creek (in present day Northampton > > Co) on the south side of Fishing Creek. > > > > At least this begins to give you a picture of where the grant was and > > confirms the cattle tie to the Gookins. I believe you will find Daniel, > > the owner of the Providence to be the father of the Daniel who came to > > Virginia (born 1612) and then to Massachusetts. The patent in 1620 would > > have been to the father. One of the Masters of the Providence was a > > Richmond. > > > > Gail > > > > ______________________________X-Message: #5 > > Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:41:33 -0400 > > From: Gail Howard <dardena@mix-net.net> > > To: LONDON-COMPANYS-L@rootsweb.com > > Message-ID: <37CB32CD.F7AFE8BE@mix-net.net> > > Subject: Re: GOOKIN reply > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > Today I have found Daniel Gookin's name spelled Coohin and Cookin so be > > aware that the G looks like a C in handwriting and the k like an h. > > Below is from the Virginia Library Colonial Records Project: > > > > SR05860 > > Reel #856 page 5 > > > > 6, f.375vo 25 Aug 1624 > > > > "John Driver of Bristol, shipwright, aged 38, deposed that he built > > the ship Mary Providence of Cork near Bristol about 2 1/2 years before, > > and that it was sold to Daniel Coohin of Galway and Jenkins, and fitted > > out for a voyage to Virginia, and he knew that the cost of fitting her > > out was L400 and upwards." > > > > So we have learned Daniel Gookin was the owner of at least two ships, > > the Providence and the Mary Providence. That they likely sailed out of > > Cork, Ireland with cattle for Virginia and Daniel was "of Galway and > > Jenkins". > > He apparently had his ships built at Bristol (at least one was) and from > > the list at the Colonial Records Project, the Providence made many > > trips. > > Considering the cost of outfitting a ship for upwards of L400, Daniel > > apparently was not poor. > > > > In Richmond Family Records (I found the connection, Dick!) > > Page 146 > > Jan. 9, 1623/4 > > Capt. Richard[Richmond alias Sheppard] with his brother or son Lt. John > > is last heard of in command of a privateer, the Mary Providence, in Va. > > > > In Bennett's History of Bandon, p243. > > Daniel Gookin, gent., who owned part of the cargo of this ship [Mary > > Providence] and who founded a colony in Va. was related to the Gookins > > of Ireland. > > > > These are people from Bandon in County Cork, Ireland. You may find the > > family vital statistics there. > > Good Luck! > > > > Gail > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: J.G.Payne > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:28:04 -0700 > From: Sherry Davis-Ellis <bluefairies@uswest.net> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Hello, > I am searching for J.G. Payne also known as James G. Payne > had 8 children in Bell Co. TX Born around 1824 in Tenn. or > Missouri. Died in 1897 of MArch > in Bell County Texas. His wife's name Mary M, of LA. found > them in the 1880 census but last name spelled wrong, (PANE) > Anyone out there, can you help me. I am stuck. > Thank you > Sherry Davis-Ellis > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: throwing in the proverbial towel > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 19:41:15 -0500 (CDT) > From: William McMahon <wmcm@connecti.com> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > At 10:57 AM 08/30/1999 -0400, Patrick Payne wrote: > > > >For some, this will be a welcome post and one long overdue... > > > >This will be my last post to this list. It seems there are those out there > >that are hell bent on twisting my words and discrediting my research > >efforts- without once referring to the records. These people have NEVER > >visited my web site to review the records available there (one reason that > >I required registration in the first place), base their attacks solely on > >my posts to the list (- after mixing my words around to suit their > >purpose), . . . . . . . .snip. . . . . . > > Patrick, > > I do hope you will reconsider your decision, as many of us do appreciate > your research. I, for one, am very gratefull for your research as you > have provided me the ancestors of Dorcas PAYNE, dau of Isaiah PAYNE and Ann > WILLIAMS, who married James MACHEN. This is one of my lines that I had > not yet allocated time to research. But when I do get the time, you have > given me the background references to go to search for the proof. [I > intend to fill you in on the descendants of this marriage within the next > few weeks.] > > I am a retired research chemist, and am familar with the techniques of > literature research, and for folks to reject and criticize your work is > either just plain ignorance of research techniques or just plain bull > headed arrogance. [I do remember that there were all kinds of hell raising > over your use of a username and password.] On a list as large as this > one, there are always a few who will accuse anyone of most anything, > just because they want and expect to see every little thing printed in > black and white with all the "i's" dotted and the "t's" crossed. They > are intolerant of "hyphotheses" and "theories" because they want only > "FACTS" (or "LAWS"). You are working on your hyphotheses and by gathering > information have formulated a theory about the Payne families. Ultimately > you hope to gather enough information to prove your theory or discount it. > This is the scientific method which applies to any kind of research, > whether it is chemistry, physics, history or genealogy. People who > are critical of your research remind one of the folks who said > Columbus was going to sail off the edge of the earth into space > because the earth "is flat". > > I do hope you will stick with us and don't give up the ship. You > have made progress and I believe the majority of us are interested > in your findings and wish you luck in your quest. Whether you are right, > or wrong, in your theory, you will have gained a greater understanding > of history and the Payne family, and will be a better person from your > experience. > > The objective of research is to gain knowledge, and those who reject > this objective are really not interested in genealogy. Unfortunately, > some are only interested in "a real long list of names" and care less > about the people and their contributions to society, family, etc. > > Wishing you the best, and whether you stay or go, I'll keep in touch, > > Bill McMahon > List Manager: BROWDER & McMAHON Lists. McMAHON List Welcomes > ALL Spelling Variants of McMAHON,McMAHAN,McMAHEN,MAHON,MAHAN > Your Support Keeps RootsWeb FREE TO All!! > http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: throwing in the proverbial towel > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:18:33 -0400 > From: Bill Hobbs <hobbs@usit.net> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Patrick, > > Just think of the PAYNE list as a warm-up round for VAroots. On the > VAroots list one can get flamed for the mere suggestion that the > lifestyles of our ancestors have anything at all to do with genealogy. > I have been skewered in private posts from that list more than once. > This is why your computer company has provided you with a delete key :-) > > If you do not find deleting to be satisfactory, there are available to > you some time-honored Anglo-Saxon words and phrases that can be sent via > return Email. > > Above all, remember that anyone who ever did anything worthwhile had > detractors. The results of your research seem to be hitting a nerve > with many people. Some react positively, some negatively. Either > reaction is far better than being ignored! > > Bill Hobbs > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: throwing in the towel > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 20:30:31 -0500 > From: "Martha W. Acker" <mwacker@bellsouth.net> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Patrick, > Why don't you start a Payne-Mariner-L at roots web so that those must be > so troubled do not have to be bothered by your research, and those of us > who wish to can subscribe and regularly receive and send postings? I > think it is interesting that your detractors do not make their remarks > to the list, so the group can read and assess them. > Martha > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: throwing in the towel > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:53:34 -0700 > From: "Megan Payne" <megan@demoroom.com> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Patrick, > > Please don't stop posting. Although I would _never_ advocate a flame war, if > someone says something particularly bothersome, you could do what my friends > and I do: we take the most absurd postition possible. For example: one of my > friends detests abortion debates, so he always says, "It is a tragedy when > any fetus is carried to term." That usually stops people cold in their > tracks. Besides, it is funny. -I know, I know... I have a sick sense of > humor. :) > > Megan > > >Patrick, > >Why don't you start a Payne-Mariner-L at roots web so that those must be > >so troubled do not have to be bothered by your research, and those of us > >who wish to can subscribe and regularly receive and send postings? I > >think it is interesting that your detractors do not make their remarks > >to the list, so the group can read and assess them. > >Martha > > > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: Patrick Payne's Towel > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 22:14:39 -0500 > From: "Raymond L. Gann" <gannrl@fullnet.net> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Dear Patrick: > > Include me as one of your fans. My impression o