Hi List, Old Little John's granddaughter has gone round the bend looking for these folks. I posted the poems yesterday and this is how he connects. Could the Payne lady who emailed me the information on her Payne Archer please resend the information? I meant to print it for future reference and deleted it instead. Thanks Jeanette Wheeler My gg-grandfather Charles E. (Emanuel?)Payne was b. in IN 1845-1846 according to his marriage license to Mary Catherine Waddle. They married 1-4-1874 in Marshall Co IN. The 1880 Marshall Co. In census lists Charles father born in VA and mother in KY. They named their first son Otho Andrew Payne. This is such an unusual name I am assuming that Charles father was Otho Payne. I find Otho Payne buying federal land in IL in 1838 and John Payne also bought land in 1838 both in Kankakee Il right on the border of Indiana. I find Otho W Payne in the Il census index from 1840-1849 and then in IA index from 1850 and 1852. Does anyone know anything about this Otho Payne? His wife, children or siblings? Charles E Payne and Mary Catherine Waddle had the following children 1. Otho Andrew Payne b. 8-7-1875 IN 2. John S. Payne b. 1878 IN 3. Issac Payne b. 1879 IN These children were listed in the 1880 census Marshall Co In In March of 1881 Charles and Mary moved to Pentwater, Oceana Co Michigan and then to Walkerville Oceana Co Michigan. They had the following children in Oceana Co. Mi. Ernest Edward Payne 2-16-1831 d. 2-12-1887 Daisy (Maude)Payne 5-21-1884 Charles C. Payne 3-1886 d. 6-8-1901 Harry (Harrison?) L. Payne 7-1889 I have extesive history on our branch, some pretty wild characters! If any of this rings a bell please email me direct. Thanks Jeanette Wheeler grandaughter of Charlie Payne, "Little John of Michigan"