Dear Patrick, I am new to this, and I mean just this last week. *S* But from the posting from other payne's, it appears they don't think you are a pain. And neither do I. You are an asset to our e-mail's we get. You have help several people in your endeavors to find paynes for them. You have given a lot of good information, and hints on where to look for other family members. If one does not want to see that our families came from different area's, other than what they believe to be true, that is on them, not you. And like one said if you give up, they win, and us paynes "Never give up". Our forefathers would roll in their grave's if they knew how the others were spamming you. Stick with it Patrick, it is worth it, honest. *S* Sincerely Sherry Davis-Ellis Arizona USA PAYNE-D-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > Subject: > > PAYNE-D Digest Volume 99 : Issue 188 > > Today's Topics: > #1 Re: Throwing in the towel: [Bryant548@aol.com] > #2 Re: Malockie Paine/Henry Paine ["diane k" <skunk@coastalnet.com>] > #3 Hi ["Karlen Day" <daycross@bright.net>] > #4 Quitting ["David Payne" <otime@hotmail.com>] > #5 Re: throwing in the proverbial tow ["lankford" <lankford@gte.net>] > #6 Re: throwing in the proverbial tow [Olson <mjo@accessone.com>] > #7 Re: Don't quit Patrick ["Diann Payne" <diann@f1.net.au>] > #8 Re: throwing in the proverbial tow [Wesley Gann <wesgann@bellsouth.net] > #9 J.G.Payne [Sherry Davis-Ellis <bluefairies@us] > #10 Re: throwing in the proverbial tow [William McMahon <wmcm@connecti.com] > #11 Re: throwing in the proverbial tow [Bill Hobbs <hobbs@usit.net>] > #12 throwing in the towel ["Martha W. Acker" <mwacker@bellsou] > #13 Re: throwing in the towel ["Megan Payne" <megan@demoroom.com>] > #14 Re: Patrick Payne's Towel ["Raymond L. Gann" <gannrl@fullnet.] > > Administrivia: > To unsubscribe from PAYNE-D, send a message to > > PAYNE-D-request@rootsweb.com > > that contains in the body of the message the command > > unsubscribe > > and no other text. No subject line is necessary, but if your software > requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, too. > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: Throwing in the towel: > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:18:10 EDT > From: Bryant548@aol.com > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Cousins, > I just joined this list about a week ago. The first mail I got was sent > privately instead of the list. The quote was, "there are a lot of people > there who have to be right ( whether they are not.) The arguing and insults > got old." > > Now we have this dialogue going on about throwing in the towel! What is > the matter with you people. Is this part of the Payne personality? People > on other list that I belong to don't act this way. I though it was all about > helping one another to gather as much information as possible then prove or > disprove the information together as a team. > > I am amazed! > > Barbara Bryant > Clearwater FL and Wakefield, PQ > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: Malockie Paine/Henry Paine > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:50:37 -0400 > From: "diane k" <skunk@coastalnet.com> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Hello, I want to thank you for replying to me about Henry Paine. > > I found it all very very interesting and helpful. > > sorry I didn't get back right away. I am just swamped with mail and every > now and then I accidently hit the "mark all as read" key and then really > get behind. > > Anyone know how to "undo" the "mark all as read" key? > > Thanks Pat for being so quick to share. > > diane > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Hi > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:04:58 -0400 > From: "Karlen Day" <daycross@bright.net> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Hi My name is Jessie Payne Day I've have been reading your e'mail > messages with great interest, but I have come to the conclusion that you > must not be from my Payne family. If anybody said anything derogatory to > any of us, we immediately bristled and went after them - how dare they say > that. Maybe you got that soft heart from your Mothers side. And believe > me that's good to be sensitive - however, don't let some boor out there > that don't even like themself or anybody else that's doing something good > for other people stop you. Get your dander up and know there are lots of > us out here that say thank you. I'm 65 years old and don't fully > understand this computer and not even sure I have your right address, but I > trust in God that you will receive this. > > God Bless you and Please don't give up > > Jessie Payne Day > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Quitting > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:08:06 PDT > From: "David Payne" <otime@hotmail.com> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Patrick, > I for one have been enjoying your info that keeps coming in on the list. > Please don't stop. Just ignore the stiffs. > If you quit, let me know where I can find your info. I am having trouble > getting info from your site. > Don't you have a Rootsweb list? I have lost it. > Please dont give up. > David > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: throwing in the proverbial towel > Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 18:55:17 -0400 > From: "lankford" <lankford@gte.net> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Hi Patrick, > > I joined this list to ck on a relattive of my Uncle's. He is in his 80's > and never knew his family not even his Father. His Fathher died when he was > 9 mos. old. His GMother was Emma Payne from Kent, England. I have stayed > with the list because of you. The research you do is extremely interesting > and stirs many questions. I wish there was a visible researcher for my > Father's line. (Lankford) > > I have learned a great deal about research just by reading your posts. I > have visited your site and enjoyed it thoroughly. I often go back just to > see what you have discovered or to get ideas of what documents might hold a > clue for me. Please understand your research, if read thourghly, benafits > others even if they are not researching the Payne line. > > HIT THE DELETE KEY. Those of us who are interested in our heritage for our > Families understand and thoes who don't -------OH WELL. > > Mary Ann > in Florida > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: throwing in the proverbial towel > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:57:09 -0700 > From: Olson <mjo@accessone.com> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > > Patrick, > > My grandmother always said, when I was particularly upset, "If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear > it." I have learned so much from your posts and look forward to them. Don't let those Payne's > in the neck get the better of you. > > Every Payne in my family has a wonderful quality, we are all stubborn! So get your Payne up and > hit that delete button! > > Cherie R. Olson > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: Don't quit Patrick > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:01:24 +1000 > From: "Diann Payne" <diann@f1.net.au> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Patrick, > Yes, I am another who appreciates your postings. And finally I might even > have done enough family history to be able to connect my Paynes to those > back in the early 1700s and 1600s. I appreciate all the clues I can get > about my family history. > Regards, > Diann Payne > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: throwing in the proverbial towel > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 19:12:17 -0400 > From: Wesley Gann <wesgann@bellsouth.net> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > While I have not been on this list too long, I can tell you that I have lines > that want to argue and alienate over the spelling of a name, much less hanky > panky between cousins etc. If I had let this get to me I would have quit > searching for my "families" about as soon as I got started. If you leave now, > you will only leave a void for researchers looking only for the truth, that > void being filled by those that mutually, we can all do without. > Best of Wishes With Your Decision > Wesley Gann > Patrick Payne wrote: > > > For some, this will be a welcome post and one long overdue... > > > > This will be my last post to this list. It seems there are those out there > > that are hell bent on twisting my words and discrediting my research > > efforts- without once referring to the records. These people have NEVER > > visited my web site to review the records available there (one reason that > > I required registration in the first place), base their attacks solely on > > my posts to the list (- after mixing my words around to suit their > > purpose), have made NO EFFORT to study the records of the over one dozen > > ACTIVE PAYNE mariners of the 17th century (that nobody ever seems to > > discuss or even mention), refuse to believe there is ANY possibility of a > > relationship between branches- although there is tons of evidence within > > *these* records that strongly suggest otherwise. Regardless of what anyone > > believes about these families or what the truth will ultimately turn out to > > be- these records deserve our study as all published sources are silent on > > them. We have glaring holes in our research if we don't include them. > > Moreover, I have raised numerous questions that deserve some answers. We > > are "missing the boat" if we don't account for them or consider the > > importance of the facts that they owned and captained ships (THE SAME > > SHIPS!) throughout the 17th century, regularly intermarried and associated > > with families of the same surnames (- no matter where we find them and over > > a period of decades, not just a couple of records- mounds of them), were > > involved in such large enterprises as iron works (not just in New England > > either) which was a very significant concern in those days, intermarried > > and associated with some of the most notable clergymen of the day, or a > > host of other important considerations that is NEVER brought to the > > forefront of our research. I simply tried to address those issues that we > > otherwise never hear about. > > > > There are OTHER WAYS to prove relationships apart from a record that says > > Joe was the son of John DOE! A record like that might be ideal, but in the > > early 17th century, we may never have that luxury and we therefore must > > make the best use of ALL THE DATA we have available to us. Yes- that means > > that we will sometimes have to wade through some dung to find the gold. > > Those that refuse to do so and wait on the magic record to appear, in my > > opinion, are the ones responsible for both limiting progress and alienating > > some fine researchers from contributing their finds. In short, if you are > > going to criticize someone, at least have the consideration to have given > > their ideas serious thought and study. If you haven't even LOOKED at it- > > what right do you have? It's as if these people believe that solely because > > I have found the same names occurring in records that I have somehow > > determined that there is a relationship between them! This only goes to > > show that they have not been paying attention :-} > > > > I will be leaving my web site on-line but I do not know if I will continue > > trying to make updates to it. Haven't decided yet... The mailing lists will > > also remain active, although I will probably seek a new owner for them. I > > hate to do this to the many kind folks I have met over the years who have > > given me their support. Unfortunately, for every 100 letters of support I > > get, the few I get from these others ruins any satisfaction I would get > > from my effort. It makes it all seem pointless and has made me think about > > who I am doing this for anyway? The answer is for myself and my family. > > > > I don't think some people realize the time, effort, and money that I have > > sunk into this project. Over nearly three years, I have pursued this > > "hobby" virtually full-time. I don't mean 8 hours per day either. Every > > waking and free moment has been spent on it. I left my job (as an > > administrator with a high-tech company) in order to pursue this research > > unhindered by any other responsibilities. Since that time, I have spent > > roughly 18 hours per day and literally thousands of dollars in savings for > > travel costs, books, memberships, and professional assistance. I did not > > do this on a whim. I did it because I was convinced by *these* records > > (combined with known facts) that I was on to something *and* I still > > believe that! Over the past several months, many others have come to feel > > this way too as every week it seems I would receive some information that > > coincides perfectly with the story I have been putting together. They, too, > > are becoming excited about the new doors that have opened for them. This > > support has come from not only PAYNE researchers, but Allied families as > > well. I have received encouragement from noted historians, such as > > Professor Bailyn (please read "The New England Merchants of the 17th > > Century") and others. I suppose I'm being rather "thin-skinned" in the long > > run, but it's just not worth it anymore. At a time when the research has > > been yielding some of its best results too! > > > > I would like to think that I am an intelligent person with an above > > average ability in abstract reasoning, problem-solving, etc. My IQ, as last > > tested by the military, was 128. I passed the air-traffic controllers exam > > with a score of 97 (102 if I include my veterans preference points). If > > anyone has ever picked up a study guide for that exam in a bookstore, you > > know that this was no easy accomplishment! You may wonder, "what does THAT > > have to do with genealogy research?" Much more than you would think, > > believe me! One of the prime reasons of the test is to determine the > > ability to recognize patterns and recurring events. I don't include this as > > some form of self-praise. Just to show I'm no idiot, as some would > > apparently label me. > > > > Lastly, I want to say how unfortunate it is that I am not alone in my > > feelings. I have met several researchers who simply have given up for the > > same reasons- a few bad apples who do not realize the insult they give. > > Maybe I am guilty of it too. I understand that many of you have been > > researching for years and years- possibly even longer than I've been alive! > > But that is NO EXCUSE for some of the letters I have received. Just because > > you may have spent the last 100 years researching, it does not mean that > > there is no room for alternate ways of thinking. Nor does it give you > > license to become the PAYNE POLICE and attack others. If you disagree with > > the research of others, point out SPECIFIC items. But DO NOT just attack > > every aspect of their effort! > > > > Good Luck to you "thicker-skinned" folks out there. I'm not admitting > > defeat- just moving on to avoid people like these- who uncannily seem to > > all be on this list! But- there I go using my brain again to draw > > conclusions based on observation and record ;-} The very thing that caused > > this mess to begin with! Those of you who would like to keep in touch with > > me will know how to reach me and I look forward to hearing from you. It's > > just time to become a little less public for fear of being trounced. Walls > > may come down here and there, but this is the biggest one we face. Until it > > comes down, no significant advances will be made on answering many of the > > questions. Everyone is to afraid to ask them or suggest solutions for them- > > because they are not based on the same old outdated accounts of the 1930's > > that we have grown accustomed to. While those accounts have their place, > > they are but foundations to build on at this point. Just like the > > historians accounts of Colonial America, these, too, have limited > > themselves to particular areas of settlement- Virginia, Massachusetts, > > Maine, Connecticut, etc... There is a bigger picture out there folks! > > > > I hope we all come to realize that one day. Buck the norm. Be original and > > consider everything- no matter how outlandish you may think it is. It may > > be the key you need. > > > > A last contribution on a happy note- although no PAYNE's are mentioned in > > the following, it does have its place in PAYNE research for those that will > > look for it. It was posted to the LONDON-COMPANYS-L list today: > > > > "The Story of the Pilgrim Fathers, > > 1606-1623 A.D." by Edward Arber > > Chapter "The two Virginia Companies" > > Page 254 > > "The Rev. Doctor E.D. Neill adds, "He was hired by Daniel Gookin, owner > > of the Providence, to take that ship to Virginia which arrived April > > 10th, 1623.[see S.P. Colonial, Vol.II, 10 April 1623]." > > This reference refers to John Clarke, hired by Gookin. John had taken > > cattle from Ireland to Virginia in 1619. > > > > On this site,http://www.ida.net/users/dhanco/names.htm#names1, I found > > the following: > > 1644 > > Daniel Gookin (1612-1687), son of an early Irish settler in Virginia, > > moves to Massachusetts and eventually becomes a member of the > > Governor's > > Council, major general of the militia, and superintendent of Indian > > affairs. > > Are we talking about the same family here??? > > > > At this site: > > > > http://www.historichamptonroads.com/Documents/Definitions/Definitions.htm > > > > Marie's Mount: Pronounced "Mary’s". Located in current day downtown > > Newport News. Marie's Mount was named after the wife of the first known > > settler in Newport News, Daniel Gookin, Sr. > > > > Here: > > > > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dave_rigney/history/history.htm > > >From Adventures of Purse and Person > > > > William Cole (William) bought, 1671, the "Bolthrupe" plantation of 1350 > > acres lying on the Warwick River between "Denbigh," the > > Mathews plantation, and "Windmill Point," the seat of the Carys. In > > addition, on 20 April 1685 Cole acquired 1433 acres laying > > largely in Warwick County but partly in Elizabeth City, "commonly called > > Newport News according to the most ancient and lawful > > bounds." This was the major portion of a grant to the heirs of Daniel > > Gookin, who had settled at Newport News, March 1621/22. > > It extended along the James River from its mouth approximately four > > miles. > > And here: > > > > http://www.heritagebooks.com/neweng.htm > > > > The Register, Vol. 4, 1850 - Genealogies: Bradford; Davenport; Gilbert; > > Gookin; Leverett; Otis; Wentworth; Winslow; Wright. > > Records: physicians of Ipswich MA; Saybrook CT vr; list of Freemen; > > Dover NH town records; Plymouth Co MA wills; Suffolk > > Co MA wills; Boston area vr; Weymouth MA vr; passengers for VA; Wrentham > > MA vr; marr & deaths from news.; Dorchester > > MA inscr; Marshfield MA inscr; Gloucester MA vr; Reprint, 388 pp., > > index. paper, $31.00 #ZNR04 > > > > One of Daniel's men: > > > > http://www.esva.net/ghotes/saxis/d2/i0012015.htm > > Henry immigrated to 1623.(10339) Henry was living after 1632/3 in > > Accawmack Co, VA.(10340) Henry's will was probated 26 Nov > > 1635 in Accawmack Co, VA.(10341) Henry Carsley came to Virginia in 1623 > > in the "Providence" and at the age of 23 years when > > the muster was taken in Feb 1624/5, was living at Newport News, VA, as > > one of Daniel Gookin's men. Henry was a headright > > named in Daniel Gookin's patent for 2500 acres in Upper Norfolk Co, 29 > > > > Dec 1637, pursuant to order of court, 25 Feb 1634/5. The > > shipping and cattle breeding enterprise projected by Gookin did not > > prosper and Henry Carsley migrated to the Eastern Shore > > where many settlers began to take up land after the 1621/2 massacre. On > > 19 Feb 1633/4 Carsley petitioned the court held at"Accawmack" for a > > lease of 50 acres upon Old Plantation Creek (in present day Northampton > > Co) on the south side of Fishing Creek. > > > > At least this begins to give you a picture of where the grant was and > > confirms the cattle tie to the Gookins. I believe you will find Daniel, > > the owner of the Providence to be the father of the Daniel who came to > > Virginia (born 1612) and then to Massachusetts. The patent in 1620 would > > have been to the father. One of the Masters of the Providence was a > > Richmond. > > > > Gail > > > > ______________________________X-Message: #5 > > Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:41:33 -0400 > > From: Gail Howard <dardena@mix-net.net> > > To: LONDON-COMPANYS-L@rootsweb.com > > Message-ID: <37CB32CD.F7AFE8BE@mix-net.net> > > Subject: Re: GOOKIN reply > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > Today I have found Daniel Gookin's name spelled Coohin and Cookin so be > > aware that the G looks like a C in handwriting and the k like an h. > > Below is from the Virginia Library Colonial Records Project: > > > > SR05860 > > Reel #856 page 5 > > > > 6, f.375vo 25 Aug 1624 > > > > "John Driver of Bristol, shipwright, aged 38, deposed that he built > > the ship Mary Providence of Cork near Bristol about 2 1/2 years before, > > and that it was sold to Daniel Coohin of Galway and Jenkins, and fitted > > out for a voyage to Virginia, and he knew that the cost of fitting her > > out was L400 and upwards." > > > > So we have learned Daniel Gookin was the owner of at least two ships, > > the Providence and the Mary Providence. That they likely sailed out of > > Cork, Ireland with cattle for Virginia and Daniel was "of Galway and > > Jenkins". > > He apparently had his ships built at Bristol (at least one was) and from > > the list at the Colonial Records Project, the Providence made many > > trips. > > Considering the cost of outfitting a ship for upwards of L400, Daniel > > apparently was not poor. > > > > In Richmond Family Records (I found the connection, Dick!) > > Page 146 > > Jan. 9, 1623/4 > > Capt. Richard[Richmond alias Sheppard] with his brother or son Lt. John > > is last heard of in command of a privateer, the Mary Providence, in Va. > > > > In Bennett's History of Bandon, p243. > > Daniel Gookin, gent., who owned part of the cargo of this ship [Mary > > Providence] and who founded a colony in Va. was related to the Gookins > > of Ireland. > > > > These are people from Bandon in County Cork, Ireland. You may find the > > family vital statistics there. > > Good Luck! > > > > Gail > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: J.G.Payne > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:28:04 -0700 > From: Sherry Davis-Ellis <bluefairies@uswest.net> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Hello, > I am searching for J.G. Payne also known as James G. Payne > had 8 children in Bell Co. TX Born around 1824 in Tenn. or > Missouri. Died in 1897 of MArch > in Bell County Texas. His wife's name Mary M, of LA. found > them in the 1880 census but last name spelled wrong, (PANE) > Anyone out there, can you help me. I am stuck. > Thank you > Sherry Davis-Ellis > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: throwing in the proverbial towel > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 19:41:15 -0500 (CDT) > From: William McMahon <wmcm@connecti.com> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > At 10:57 AM 08/30/1999 -0400, Patrick Payne wrote: > > > >For some, this will be a welcome post and one long overdue... > > > >This will be my last post to this list. It seems there are those out there > >that are hell bent on twisting my words and discrediting my research > >efforts- without once referring to the records. These people have NEVER > >visited my web site to review the records available there (one reason that > >I required registration in the first place), base their attacks solely on > >my posts to the list (- after mixing my words around to suit their > >purpose), . . . . . . . .snip. . . . . . > > Patrick, > > I do hope you will reconsider your decision, as many of us do appreciate > your research. I, for one, am very gratefull for your research as you > have provided me the ancestors of Dorcas PAYNE, dau of Isaiah PAYNE and Ann > WILLIAMS, who married James MACHEN. This is one of my lines that I had > not yet allocated time to research. But when I do get the time, you have > given me the background references to go to search for the proof. [I > intend to fill you in on the descendants of this marriage within the next > few weeks.] > > I am a retired research chemist, and am familar with the techniques of > literature research, and for folks to reject and criticize your work is > either just plain ignorance of research techniques or just plain bull > headed arrogance. [I do remember that there were all kinds of hell raising > over your use of a username and password.] On a list as large as this > one, there are always a few who will accuse anyone of most anything, > just because they want and expect to see every little thing printed in > black and white with all the "i's" dotted and the "t's" crossed. They > are intolerant of "hyphotheses" and "theories" because they want only > "FACTS" (or "LAWS"). You are working on your hyphotheses and by gathering > information have formulated a theory about the Payne families. Ultimately > you hope to gather enough information to prove your theory or discount it. > This is the scientific method which applies to any kind of research, > whether it is chemistry, physics, history or genealogy. People who > are critical of your research remind one of the folks who said > Columbus was going to sail off the edge of the earth into space > because the earth "is flat". > > I do hope you will stick with us and don't give up the ship. You > have made progress and I believe the majority of us are interested > in your findings and wish you luck in your quest. Whether you are right, > or wrong, in your theory, you will have gained a greater understanding > of history and the Payne family, and will be a better person from your > experience. > > The objective of research is to gain knowledge, and those who reject > this objective are really not interested in genealogy. Unfortunately, > some are only interested in "a real long list of names" and care less > about the people and their contributions to society, family, etc. > > Wishing you the best, and whether you stay or go, I'll keep in touch, > > Bill McMahon > List Manager: BROWDER & McMAHON Lists. McMAHON List Welcomes > ALL Spelling Variants of McMAHON,McMAHAN,McMAHEN,MAHON,MAHAN > Your Support Keeps RootsWeb FREE TO All!! > http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: throwing in the proverbial towel > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:18:33 -0400 > From: Bill Hobbs <hobbs@usit.net> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Patrick, > > Just think of the PAYNE list as a warm-up round for VAroots. On the > VAroots list one can get flamed for the mere suggestion that the > lifestyles of our ancestors have anything at all to do with genealogy. > I have been skewered in private posts from that list more than once. > This is why your computer company has provided you with a delete key :-) > > If you do not find deleting to be satisfactory, there are available to > you some time-honored Anglo-Saxon words and phrases that can be sent via > return Email. > > Above all, remember that anyone who ever did anything worthwhile had > detractors. The results of your research seem to be hitting a nerve > with many people. Some react positively, some negatively. Either > reaction is far better than being ignored! > > Bill Hobbs > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: throwing in the towel > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 20:30:31 -0500 > From: "Martha W. Acker" <mwacker@bellsouth.net> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Patrick, > Why don't you start a Payne-Mariner-L at roots web so that those must be > so troubled do not have to be bothered by your research, and those of us > who wish to can subscribe and regularly receive and send postings? I > think it is interesting that your detractors do not make their remarks > to the list, so the group can read and assess them. > Martha > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: throwing in the towel > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:53:34 -0700 > From: "Megan Payne" <megan@demoroom.com> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Patrick, > > Please don't stop posting. Although I would _never_ advocate a flame war, if > someone says something particularly bothersome, you could do what my friends > and I do: we take the most absurd postition possible. For example: one of my > friends detests abortion debates, so he always says, "It is a tragedy when > any fetus is carried to term." That usually stops people cold in their > tracks. Besides, it is funny. -I know, I know... I have a sick sense of > humor. :) > > Megan > > >Patrick, > >Why don't you start a Payne-Mariner-L at roots web so that those must be > >so troubled do not have to be bothered by your research, and those of us > >who wish to can subscribe and regularly receive and send postings? I > >think it is interesting that your detractors do not make their remarks > >to the list, so the group can read and assess them. > >Martha > > > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: Patrick Payne's Towel > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 22:14:39 -0500 > From: "Raymond L. Gann" <gannrl@fullnet.net> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Dear Patrick: > > Include me as one of your fans. My impression o