Hello again, I received an inter-library loan I'd been waiting on today which includes a transcript of the letter that Thomas CRANMER, Archbishop of Canterbury, wrote to Sir Thomas CROMWELL in 1537 regarding Sir Hugh PAYNE, the ex-Observant friar of Hadleigh, Suffolk (the home of Ann, daughter of John WHITING, who married William PAYNE in 1601 and of the CASTELL family, of which Martha CASTELL married Anthony PAYNE abt. 1564). I previously posted a fairly detailed account about Hugh to the list. If you missed it, or just need a refresher, it is located at <http://www.payn.org/pfhs-intro.shtml>http://www.payn.org/pfhs-intro.shtml I'm including the text of the letter below along with some of the questions it raised for me. If you'd rather have the html formatting, it is located at <http://www.payn.org/hugh-payne.shtml>http://www.payn.org/hugh-payne.shtml Letter from Thomas CRANMER, Archbishop of Canterbury, to Sir Thomas CROMWELL regarding Hugh PAYNE, Curate of Hadleigh, Suffolk, 28 January 1537 (the following letter transcribed from "The Works of Thomas Cranmer- Miscellaneous Writings and Letters of Thomas Cranmer," edited for the Parker Society by the Rev. John Edmund Cox, M.A., F.S.A., of All Souls' College, Oxford, Curate and Lecturer of Stepney, vol. II, Cambridge: printed at The University Press) CLXXXIII. To CRUMWELL (CROMWELL) My very singular good lord, in my most hearty manner I commend me unto your lordship. And whereas I received a letter from you, wherein you will me to send Sir Hugh PAYNE unto you after his appearance, whom ye are informed that I acited to appear before me; your lordship shall understand, that the said Sir Hugh PAYNE was curate of Hadleigh in the county of Suffolk, of my particular jurisdiction, and for his erroneous and seditious preaching there he was detected to me: upon which detection I sent for him; and in the mean space, while he stood in examination, I commanded him, before doctor REVET, parson of Hadley, that he should not preach within my diocese or peculiars; which by my commandment he disobediently contemning, did both preach at Hadley and also at London in my peculiars there. And in his examination had before me concerning those things wherein he was detected, he was proved openly perjured. And that he there erroneously preached, a taste of his teaching your lordship shall perceive. He taught openly in the pulpit there, that one paternoster, said by the injunction of a priest, was worth a million paternosters said of a man's mere voluntary mind: by this you may soon savour what judgement this man is of, and how sincerely he would instruct the people. At the last he, seeing these things proved against him, submitted himself to my correction. And whereas I might by justice have pronounced him perjured, and farther have proceeded against him for his erroneous preaching, I enjoined to him but certain pennance. and not so much as he deserved; which he did receive, and swear by the holy evangelists to accomplish the same. And therein again he was forsworn and did it not, but fled into the said county of Suffolk again, and became a parish priest and a preacher at Stoke Nayland, where he is (as I am informed) as well liked as he was at Hadley. I hearing that he was there, caused him to be cited to appear before me; which thing he did not: whereupon I did excommunicate him, and so now for his contumacy he standeth excommunicate. And if he come unto me, I will send him to your lordship; but in the mean space these my letters are to desire your lordship that you will put with me your helping hand to see him punished: for although many of the observants were wolves in sheep's skins, yet in my opinion he ought to give place to none of them in dissimulation, hypocrisy, flattery, and all other qualities of the wolfish Pharisees. Furthermore I send unto your lordship herewithal a letter directed to me by a monk of Christ's church in Canterbury, named Dan John WALKEHAM, concerning certain directions. Upon which letter this day I have examined Dan Stephen GYLES and Dan John STONE, monks; and I have sent for Dan Thomas BECKET to examine him to-morrow. And as for John STONE, I have committed him to ward: beseeching your lordship that I may know with expedition the king's grace's pleasure concerning the ordering of these persons. Over this I have received letters directed both unto your lordship and to me from Turney of CALICE (CALAIS); and because your letters concern divers matters, I have sent you mine also, thinking it good that your lordship know the contents thereof. Thus, my lord, right heartily fare you well. At Ford, the 28th day of January [1537.] Your own ever assured, T. CANTURIEN. (To the right honourable and my singular good lord, my lord privy seal. ) references are then given regarding the preaching of Observants: Vid. letters CXVIII. CXLIII. CLXXIX., pp. 291, 303, 330 Questions: Why would CROMWELL have written to CRANMER asking him about Sir Hugh PAYNE and that he be sent to him? Why would CRANMER return such a detailed reply to CROMWELL on his reasons for examining Sir Hugh PAYNE? Why would CRANMER require CROMWELL'S hand to punish Sir Hugh PAYNE? After all, CRANMER was the Archbishop of Canterbury and Sir Hugh fell within his jurisdiction! CROMWELL was a politician, not an ecclesiastic... Who was John STONE and what was his relationship to the family of Samuel STONE that lived in Sisted, Essex, near to both Hadleigh, Suffolk and to "Stoke Nayland" (now called Stoke-by-Nayland) where Hugh preached? Or the family of STONE'S involved with the PAYNE'S in BOTH New England and Virginia/Maryland? Both of these villages (Hadleigh and Stoke Nayland) are on the border of Suffolk and Essex and near the homes of the WINTHROP'S "of Groton" (who initiated the Iron Works at Saugus), Edward PAYNE "of Alphamstone", Henry PAYNE and Ann ALSTON "of Boxford," and the GATES family "of Kentwell Hall." Recall that a Henry PAYNE accomanied Sir Thomas GATES as a member of his camp (along with John ROLFE and Stephen HOPKINS) aboard the "SEA VENTURE" in 1609. Thoughts:In 1564, 27 years after this letter was written, William STEWARD married Catherine, daughter of Thomas PAYNE, Esq., and his wife Margaret "of Castle Acre, Norfolk". The daughter of William STEWARD and Catherine PAYNE, Elizabeth STEWARD, married Robert CROMWELL (AKA WILLIAMS), Esq., and they were the parents of the Lord Protector, Oliver CROMWELL (whose protege and replacement in Parliament in 1625 was Sir Robert PAYNE). Robert CROMWELL was the son of Sir Henry CROMWELL, the grandson of Sir Thomas CROMWELL above. Henry's father (Robert's grandfather), Gregory CROMWELL, died and was buried in Leicestershire, as was his wife, Elizabeth SEYMOUR, daughter of John SEYMOUR and Margery (or Margaret) WENTWORTH. Leicestershire was the home of Sir Thomas PAYNE up until the family removed to Suffolk (near Hadleigh where Hugh preached) prior to 1521. Additionally, Oliver CROMWELL received an inheritance of land in Ely, very near to St. Neot's (the home of Sir Robert PAYNE) from his maternal uncle, Sir Thomas STEWARD "of Huntingdonshire." for additional information on Sir Hugh PAYNE, see my page at http://www.payn.org/pfhs-intro.shtml or read Diarmaid McCulloch's, "Thomas CRANMER." For more on the PAYNE-CROMWELL connections, see the page at http://www.payn.org/catherine-paynesteward.shtml