At 08:26 AM 04/06/2000 -0400, you wrote: >Hi Patrick, >I know you have been busy, but have you gotten a chance to put together your >recent information that you sent to us on the connection to the Paynes of >Virginia. I checked your site and found a lot of interesting names,but was >not sure how the >Paynes of Virginia were connected. Hello, There is a lot of information on the site about John PAYNE, the subject of "PAYNES of Virginia." First, In the 1630s, this John PAYNE was part owner and also the Commander of the ship, JOHN & DOROTHY, [PRO, SR 04004, pp. 3, 8; PRO, SR 04005, p. 5; PRO SR 9977, p. 1]. John was part owner of the ship, as was London merchant, Joseph HAWES, who brought criminal charges against John for taking the ship, against orders, to Ireland, where John sold off the goods of his partners. The ship brought Adam THOROUGHGOOD to Virginia along with 120 some odd head rights of his and then was to make a return to England- not Ireland, where the records state John PAYNE was living at Dublin at the time with his servant, John WITHERS. [Cavaliers and Pioneers, vol. 1, pp. 22-23]. Among reasons to conclude that this was the John PAYNE d. 1689/90, of Lancaster/Rappahannock County comes from the records of the court case John was involved in following the voyage of the JOHN & DOROTHY and the men that testified in his defense. One of those men was Col. John WALKER, whose daughter Anne WALKER, married John PAYNE'S son, John Jr., in 1668. Several other neighbors and close associates of John PAYNE of Virginia also testified on his behalf. [see http://www.payn.org/members/payne-mariners/johnpayne-1.shtml for more details]. Also named in the records of the JOHN & DOROTHY was Thomas PAYNE and Randell MAINWARRING. In Cavaliers and Pioneers under the patent granted to Adam THOROUGHGOOD in Lower Norfolk County, Virginia, it gives the names of his head rights, along with the ships they came to Virginia on. Among the many names which include close associates of John of Virginia, are the names John WITHERS and John REYNOLDS. John WITHERS was undoubtedly the servant of John PAYNE named in the court case and John REYNOLDS was the executor of the will of Thomas PAINE "of St. Mary's County, Maryland" in 1673. Thus, the argument can be made that John PAYNE "of Virginia" and Thomas PAINE "of Maryland", both named in the records of the ship JOHN & DOROTHY, were at least closely associated with one another and most likely relatives. This is not the only indicator of a relationship between the two men. Thomas PAINE of Maryland's great-grandson, Joseph PAYNE, son of Thomas & Elizabeth PAYNE of St. Mary's County, Md., married Anne BRANNOCK, daughter of John BRANNOCK and Margaret BECKWITH LECOMPTE of Dorchester County, Md. Anne BRANNOCK's half-brother, Anthony LECOMPTE, married the widow of William BENNETT, Catherine "of Virginia" whose family John PAYNE had been closely associated with. Moreover, William PAYNE who came from Virginia in 1673 as a head right of Mr. John LEE to Dorchester County, Md., settled near Joseph PAYNE's brother, Isaac PAYNE, also of Dorchester County. In about 1765, both of these families, the one from Maryland and the one from Virginia, moved TOGETHER from Maryland to Rowan County, NC. Then by 1790, they both moved again to Greenville District, SC. Along the way, they left us a record showing their relationship for Ann PAYNE, daughter of Thomas PAYNE, the grandson of William who came to Maryland from Virginia with John LEE, married a Revolutionary War soldier by the name of Archibald McMahan who drove the wagon for Thomas' family from NC to SC. Aaron PAYNE, the son of Isaiah PAYNE, Joseph PAYNE'S nephew, and a descendant of Thomas PAINE of "St. Mary's, Md.," was also in the Revolutionary War. In the pension application submitted by Aaron PAYNE, he states that he "knew Archibald MCMAhAN in North Carolina" and that he had married his "cousin" Ann PAYNE. Thomas PAINE, did not come to Virginia aboard the JOHN & DOROTHY with John PAYNE however. Instead, he arrived on the TRANSPORT of London with Edward WALKER, Master on July 4, 1635. [PRO, SR 03466, p. 2; Hottens Lists]. This seems to further support the connection between John and Thomas as the associations suggest a relationship between Edward and Col. John WALKER. The evidence can hardly be denied that the families of Virginia and Maryland were related. Brooke PAYNE missed it however because he conducted no research in Maryland at all- he makes no mention of Maryland in his bibliography. But there are several other associations to be made. As recorded in the records cited above, John PAYNE was a partner of Joseph HAWES and his brother Nathaniel HAWES. Their brother-in-law and partner was Captain George PAYNE, Master of the ship "ELIZABETH" captured by the Spanish in 1637. Captain George PAYNE married Rachel HAWES in London 1634. Randell MAINWARRING, named in the records with John PAYNE and the JOHN & DOROTHY, married Elizabeth HAWES, and was thus also the brother-in-law of George PAYNE, Joseph and Nathaniel HAWES. MAINWARRINGS cousin was merchant Matthew CRADDOCK, a New England merchant of prominence. ["Merchants and Revolution," Robert Brenner, Princeton University Press, 1994, pp. 138, 183n, 190t, 325-27, 414, 430n, 449]. The business partners of these men reads like a who's who of Virginia's Northern Neck; all neighbors and associates of John PAYNE. But they were also merchants active throughout the Colonies- the West Indies, New England, Bermuda, and Newfoundland. In fact, their reach extended farther still as the also traded in Europe, Africa, and even Asia as members of the Levant, East India, Somers Islands, and various other companies of London. Some of the names include: William TUCKER, Ralph HAMOR, Sir Thomas WARNER, Augustine WARNER, Maurice THOMPSON, Thomas COMBES, Thomas STONE, William STONE, Edward THOMPSON, William CLOBERRY, Sir William ALEXANDER, Samuel VASSAL, George MENEFIE, Thomas KING, Simon TURGIS, William CLAIBORNE, George THOMPSON, Jeremy BLACKMAN, Gregory CLEMENT, William WILLOUGHBY, Andrew STONE, John WARNER, Samuel WARNER, Thomas DEACON, Andrew HAWES, Edward WOOD, Matthew CRADDOCK, Nathan WRIGHT, John WINTHROP, Edward DOWNING, Edward BENNETT, Richard BENNETT, John UTIE, Thomas, Jonathan, and Nathaniel ANDREWS, Nicolas TRERICE, Joshua FOOTE, William PENNOYER, James STONE, William BARKELEY, Elias ROBERTS, Samuel MATHEWS, George FLETCHER, Randell MAINWARRING, Joseph and Nathaniel HAWES, George PAYNE, Thomas STEGG, William FELGATE, Henry TAVENER, John (De) BAILEY, the Earl of WARWICK (Robert RICH), and John DETHICK. Brenner goes on to show the kinships between these merchants ["Merchants and Revolution," table beginning on p. 194]. We have no reason to doubt Mr. Brenners accuracy and thoroughness. He is one of the most respected names on the subject of these merchants of the colonization period and in compiling his book, he received support from some of the best recognized names in the historical community. His sources are thorough and I have been using them extensively to pull my research together. John PAYNE [given as Jon. PAYNE] is also named in records as being the Master of the ship SUSAN & HELLEN [PRO SR 03491]. In "Planters of the Commonwealth," Banks, we find that Edward PAYNE was the Captain of SUSAN & HELLEN which sailed in May 1635 for New England with: John & Martha PROCTOR, Walter THORNTON, John NORTH, Edward WEEDEN (WEEDON), Richard HAWKINS, Thomas PARKER, Clement COLE, William BURROWS, Philip ATWOOD (a family closely associated through marriage with the SNOW and FREEMAN families who intermarried with families related to PAYNE's in NE), Peter COOPER, Mary and Hannah SMITH, Dionis TAYLOR, John MORE, Henry KNOWLES, Richard and Thomas BROOKE, Rev. Peter BULKELEY & wife Grace with their children, and most significantly, Richard SALTONSTALL of Watertown. Sir Richard SALTONSTALL'S daughter, Rosamond, married Col. Richard PAYNE of "Gunley Hall, Montgomeryshire, Wales" near the home of Tobias PAYNE, whose grandson, Tobias, married Sarah WINSLOW, daughter of Boston merchant, John WINSLOW. SALTONSTALL, PINCHON, and John WOODCOCK were given a grant of land below Springfield about 1640. PINCHON and WOODCOCK also held lands in Roxbury and in Dedham, where Thomas PAYNE "of Wrentham, Suffolk" and his wife Rebecca WARE were married. SALTONSTALL was the nephew of the Lord Mayor of London, justice of the peace, and Lord of a Manor. He later joined William PAYNE of Ipswich in a venture to open the fur trade in the Delaware region, originally initiated by the Laconia Company under the POPHAM'S and GORGE'S group (covered on my site). SALTONSTALL'S 3rd wife was Martha CAMMOCK, daughter of Thomas CAMMOCK and Frances RICH, daughter of Robert RICH, 2nd Baron RICH. Martha CAMMOCK'S nephew, Warwick CAMMOCK is named in the 1675 will of Robert PAYNE (alias Robert DAVIES), clerk of the Rappahannock County Vestry 1662-1666 who married Elizabeth LAWSON, daughter of Epaphraditus LAWSON. All of this is thoroughly covered on my web site and I am just repeating effort here. Please- go to the site and use the search engine provided or just browse :-} Regards, Patrick Payne http://papayne.rootsweb.com