Patrick, I am very iliterate on such scientific knowledge and testing, though I am trying to understand the basics. Do I understand correctly that the only ones eligible are the direct Payne lines---females not included? How can I understand, with my very limited knowledge---the reason why that women can't show the bloodlines too? I know this is showing my health and science ignorance!<grin> Mamie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Payne" <ppayne1203@earthlink.net> To: <PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 12:59 PM Subject: Re: DNA testing. > This was an excellent question, so I'm posting to the list. > > If we have participants with a KNOWN genealogical descent from the family > of Thomas Paine and Mary Snow, the test can determine if your Ycs (DNA) > matches, in which case you can be assured that you shared a common > ancestor. The test will also make a determination on how many generations > separate you from that common ancestor. With that information, we can turn > to genealogical research to determine who that common ancestor was- if that > common ancestor is known to us. While we do not have the DNA of Thomas > Paine, he left descendants that carry his Y-chromosome- AND his male > ancestors (father, grandfather, gr-grandfather- gr-gr-gr- grandfather, > etc.), brothers and children all carry the same Y-chromosome as well. This > is why it is so important to have as much participation as possible from > known descendants of these early Payne lines. The more participants we > have, the more likely it will be that we will obtain a good profile on that > line. One is good, but two or more is much better because comparisons can > be made between them. In this case, we don't need DNA from Thomas Paine, > because his descendants carry it with them. If there are no descendants of > Thomas, we could still use the DNA of his brothers or uncles descendants > who would also carry the DNA of Thomas. > > Now for an example. Let's say that you believe you have a connection with > the family of Thomas Paine of Eastham and you take the test along with a > known descendant. Also participating are several other lines of the Payne > family from various places, such as Virginia, Maryland, England, etc. The > results come back showing that in all 14 Ycs markers tested, you match the > known descendant. This tells you that you are, in fact, a descendant of > Thomas Paine of Eastham. It does not tell you exactly how, but at least you > know. The test results will, however, indicate the nearest common ancestor > between you. Say it is 7 generations. We can then look at the genealogy of > the known descendant (or what is known of the family in general) to trace > back 7 generations in the family. If that leaves you with only one male in > that generation, you would have very good reason to look to that individual > as your ancestor. Even if there were multiple males born in that > generation, you would have narrowed your search possibilities considerably. > How is this common ancestor determined? Well, it has to do with small > changes in the Y-chromosome signature over time. My Y-chromosome, for > example, might be slightly different from my brothers and I will pass this > difference on to my children, and to their children, etc. Since the change > originated with me, and does not show up further up the line, it singles me > out in the generation. If my great-grandson decides to check his DNA, he > will find that the difference in his Y-chromosome ends with me. Although it > will still match my father, and my 9th gr-grandfather, that slight change > will provide him with the knowledge that he descends from me, not my brother. > > > There are some good links on my web site that might explain this better, > but that is the crux of it. > > Continuing with the above example though, let's say that one of the other > participants also has the same markers as you and the other participant, > yet his family was from the Virginia line. The same situation applies. > We'll know that somewhere along the line, all three of you shared a common > ancestor. In this case, it may be 10 generations distant. So we do the same > calculation by tracing the family line back 10 generations... > > Where no match occurs, we can conclude these were separate and unrelated > lines. > > The great thing about this, whether there are matches or not, is that it > will establish signatures for each line so that any one in the future who > wishes to take the same test as we did can do so and determine which line > they descend from. We are creating our own record that is just as valuable > as any paper record- and in cases where the trail has grown cold, it can be > invaluable to them. > > I hope this helped to explain things a little better. If you would still > like to know more, or you just don't trust my knowledge of genetics (!), I > highly recommend that you take a look at some of the links from my page at > http://home.earthlink.net/~ppayne 1203, or I can always forward your > questions on to my contact at Relative Genetics. > > Regards, > > Patrick > > At 10:08 AM 11/27/01 -0500, you wrote: > >For Patrick: > >I, Forrest R. Paine, have volunteered to participate in this test. > Perhaps I > >have missed something or NOT understood completely WHAT this test is going > to > >prove. My question is: How will it be determined that "MY" DNA matches that > >of - - say Thomas Paine, husband of Mary Snow, or one of his ancestors? > >I can understand how, because of our DNA it can be determined that the > >participants are related. But does BYU have the DNA of (in this example) > >Thomas Paine mentioned above? If not, how will the correlation be made? > >OR, are we merely going to prove that all the participants are related BUT > >not necessarily to a particular individual in the past. > > Wondering . . > > > > > >Forrest R. Paine > >201 Meadow Lane > >Schertz, Texas 78154-2418 > >(210) 659-8351 > >MeGoToo@aol.com > > >