For Patrick: I, Forrest R. Paine, have volunteered to participate in this test. Perhaps I have missed something or NOT understood completely WHAT this test is going to prove. My question is: How will it be determined that "MY" DNA matches that of - - say Thomas Paine, husband of Mary Snow, or one of his ancestors? I can understand how, because of our DNA it can be determined that the participants are related. But does BYU have the DNA of (in this example) Thomas Paine mentioned above? If not, how will the correlation be made? OR, are we merely going to prove that all the participants are related BUT not necessarily to a particular individual in the past. Wondering . . Forrest R. Paine 201 Meadow Lane Schertz, Texas 78154-2418 (210) 659-8351 MeGoToo@aol.com

This was an excellent question, so I'm posting to the list. If we have participants with a KNOWN genealogical descent from the family of Thomas Paine and Mary Snow, the test can determine if your Ycs (DNA) matches, in which case you can be assured that you shared a common ancestor. The test will also make a determination on how many generations separate you from that common ancestor. With that information, we can turn to genealogical research to determine who that common ancestor was- if that common ancestor is known to us. While we do not have the DNA of Thomas Paine, he left descendants that carry his Y-chromosome- AND his male ancestors (father, grandfather, gr-grandfather- gr-gr-gr- grandfather, etc.), brothers and children all carry the same Y-chromosome as well. This is why it is so important to have as much participation as possible from known descendants of these early Payne lines. The more participants we have, the more likely it will be that we will obtain a good profile on that line. One is good, but two or more is much better because comparisons can be made between them. In this case, we don't need DNA from Thomas Paine, because his descendants carry it with them. If there are no descendants of Thomas, we could still use the DNA of his brothers or uncles descendants who would also carry the DNA of Thomas. Now for an example. Let's say that you believe you have a connection with the family of Thomas Paine of Eastham and you take the test along with a known descendant. Also participating are several other lines of the Payne family from various places, such as Virginia, Maryland, England, etc. The results come back showing that in all 14 Ycs markers tested, you match the known descendant. This tells you that you are, in fact, a descendant of Thomas Paine of Eastham. It does not tell you exactly how, but at least you know. The test results will, however, indicate the nearest common ancestor between you. Say it is 7 generations. We can then look at the genealogy of the known descendant (or what is known of the family in general) to trace back 7 generations in the family. If that leaves you with only one male in that generation, you would have very good reason to look to that individual as your ancestor. Even if there were multiple males born in that generation, you would have narrowed your search possibilities considerably. How is this common ancestor determined? Well, it has to do with small changes in the Y-chromosome signature over time. My Y-chromosome, for example, might be slightly different from my brothers and I will pass this difference on to my children, and to their children, etc. Since the change originated with me, and does not show up further up the line, it singles me out in the generation. If my great-grandson decides to check his DNA, he will find that the difference in his Y-chromosome ends with me. Although it will still match my father, and my 9th gr-grandfather, that slight change will provide him with the knowledge that he descends from me, not my brother. There are some good links on my web site that might explain this better, but that is the crux of it. Continuing with the above example though, let's say that one of the other participants also has the same markers as you and the other participant, yet his family was from the Virginia line. The same situation applies. We'll know that somewhere along the line, all three of you shared a common ancestor. In this case, it may be 10 generations distant. So we do the same calculation by tracing the family line back 10 generations... Where no match occurs, we can conclude these were separate and unrelated lines. The great thing about this, whether there are matches or not, is that it will establish signatures for each line so that any one in the future who wishes to take the same test as we did can do so and determine which line they descend from. We are creating our own record that is just as valuable as any paper record- and in cases where the trail has grown cold, it can be invaluable to them. I hope this helped to explain things a little better. If you would still like to know more, or you just don't trust my knowledge of genetics (!), I highly recommend that you take a look at some of the links from my page at http://home.earthlink.net/~ppayne 1203, or I can always forward your questions on to my contact at Relative Genetics. Regards, Patrick At 10:08 AM 11/27/01 -0500, you wrote: >For Patrick: >I, Forrest R. Paine, have volunteered to participate in this test. Perhaps I >have missed something or NOT understood completely WHAT this test is going to >prove. My question is: How will it be determined that "MY" DNA matches that >of - - say Thomas Paine, husband of Mary Snow, or one of his ancestors? >I can understand how, because of our DNA it can be determined that the >participants are related. But does BYU have the DNA of (in this example) >Thomas Paine mentioned above? If not, how will the correlation be made? >OR, are we merely going to prove that all the participants are related BUT >not necessarily to a particular individual in the past. > Wondering . . > > >Forrest R. Paine >201 Meadow Lane >Schertz, Texas 78154-2418 >(210) 659-8351 >MeGoToo@aol.com >