Hi Joey, I too have been trying to understand the Union Co GA Payne dynamics. I am descended from Greene Payne b 1834 SC whom you will find in the 1860 and 1870 census. He is in the 1850 census in Cherokee Co NC with his parents and siblings including brother Joel Jarvis Payne b 1838. I do not know to whom he might be related there in Union Co.GA. From my knowledge ouf our line the closest Wilson and Greene could be related is as 1st cousins through Greene's father Asa b @1810-15 NC. I have little but will be glad to post what I have on Union Co GA Paynes if it might help. Have you spoken with Bethany Payne. She was also looking for Wilson some months ago and descends through Wilson's son Thomas. On 10-28-99 she was at BoandBiff@aol.com. You said family tradition states Wilson came from Texas...from Texas to where? Do you mean born in Texas instead of Union Co or born Union Co GA, then to Texas and then to another place? The only Wilson Payne in Texas I've seen is a Wilson who married Mary Stedman in 6-22-1853 in Hopkins Texas (LDS). Karen From: PastorJAM@aol.com To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com Dear List, I am looking for the parents of Wilson Rufus Payne. Wilson was born on September 4, 1863...possibly in Union County, Georgia. He married Weltha Ann Cowart in Tattnall County, Georgia on May 15, 1881. Wilson's death certificate indicates that his father was Thomas Payne from Union County, Georgia. But...I cannot seem to link Wilson to the Paynes of Union County. Any ideas? (By the way, one of our family traditions states that Wilson came from Texas. I can't prove or disprove it.) Joey >>

Patick, I agree. Don't throw in the towel. I have learned so much about history from your postings. So what? If my Paine/Paynes and yours are not related? Who cares? I like learning, I enjoy reading your postings because they are educational and thought provoking (in the good sense) and I think that one should not give up if some others cannot be tolerant with hearing other points of view. Edith "Edie" Sando Olson wrote: > > > Patrick, > > My grandmother always said, when I was particularly upset, "If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear > it." I have learned so much from your posts and look forward to them. Don't let those Payne's > in the neck get the better of you. > > Every Payne in my family has a wonderful quality, we are all stubborn! So get your Payne up and > hit that delete button! > > Cherie R. Olson

Dear Patrick, I am new to this, and I mean just this last week. *S* But from the posting from other payne's, it appears they don't think you are a pain. And neither do I. You are an asset to our e-mail's we get. You have help several people in your endeavors to find paynes for them. You have given a lot of good information, and hints on where to look for other family members. If one does not want to see that our families came from different area's, other than what they believe to be true, that is on them, not you. And like one said if you give up, they win, and us paynes "Never give up". Our forefathers would roll in their grave's if they knew how the others were spamming you. Stick with it Patrick, it is worth it, honest. *S* Sincerely Sherry Davis-Ellis Arizona USA PAYNE-D-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > Subject: > > PAYNE-D Digest Volume 99 : Issue 188 > > Today's Topics: > #1 Re: Throwing in the towel: [Bryant548@aol.com] > #2 Re: Malockie Paine/Henry Paine ["diane k" <skunk@coastalnet.com>] > #3 Hi ["Karlen Day" <daycross@bright.net>] > #4 Quitting ["David Payne" <otime@hotmail.com>] > #5 Re: throwing in the proverbial tow ["lankford" <lankford@gte.net>] > #6 Re: throwing in the proverbial tow [Olson <mjo@accessone.com>] > #7 Re: Don't quit Patrick ["Diann Payne" <diann@f1.net.au>] > #8 Re: throwing in the proverbial tow [Wesley Gann <wesgann@bellsouth.net] > #9 J.G.Payne [Sherry Davis-Ellis <bluefairies@us] > #10 Re: throwing in the proverbial tow [William McMahon <wmcm@connecti.com] > #11 Re: throwing in the proverbial tow [Bill Hobbs <hobbs@usit.net>] > #12 throwing in the towel ["Martha W. Acker" <mwacker@bellsou] > #13 Re: throwing in the towel ["Megan Payne" <megan@demoroom.com>] > #14 Re: Patrick Payne's Towel ["Raymond L. Gann" <gannrl@fullnet.] > > Administrivia: > To unsubscribe from PAYNE-D, send a message to > > PAYNE-D-request@rootsweb.com > > that contains in the body of the message the command > > unsubscribe > > and no other text. No subject line is necessary, but if your software > requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, too. > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: Throwing in the towel: > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:18:10 EDT > From: Bryant548@aol.com > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Cousins, > I just joined this list about a week ago. The first mail I got was sent > privately instead of the list. The quote was, "there are a lot of people > there who have to be right ( whether they are not.) The arguing and insults > got old." > > Now we have this dialogue going on about throwing in the towel! What is > the matter with you people. Is this part of the Payne personality? People > on other list that I belong to don't act this way. I though it was all about > helping one another to gather as much information as possible then prove or > disprove the information together as a team. > > I am amazed! > > Barbara Bryant > Clearwater FL and Wakefield, PQ > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: Malockie Paine/Henry Paine > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:50:37 -0400 > From: "diane k" <skunk@coastalnet.com> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Hello, I want to thank you for replying to me about Henry Paine. > > I found it all very very interesting and helpful. > > sorry I didn't get back right away. I am just swamped with mail and every > now and then I accidently hit the "mark all as read" key and then really > get behind. > > Anyone know how to "undo" the "mark all as read" key? > > Thanks Pat for being so quick to share. > > diane > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Hi > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:04:58 -0400 > From: "Karlen Day" <daycross@bright.net> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Hi My name is Jessie Payne Day I've have been reading your e'mail > messages with great interest, but I have come to the conclusion that you > must not be from my Payne family. If anybody said anything derogatory to > any of us, we immediately bristled and went after them - how dare they say > that. Maybe you got that soft heart from your Mothers side. And believe > me that's good to be sensitive - however, don't let some boor out there > that don't even like themself or anybody else that's doing something good > for other people stop you. Get your dander up and know there are lots of > us out here that say thank you. I'm 65 years old and don't fully > understand this computer and not even sure I have your right address, but I > trust in God that you will receive this. > > God Bless you and Please don't give up > > Jessie Payne Day > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Quitting > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:08:06 PDT > From: "David Payne" <otime@hotmail.com> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Patrick, > I for one have been enjoying your info that keeps coming in on the list. > Please don't stop. Just ignore the stiffs. > If you quit, let me know where I can find your info. I am having trouble > getting info from your site. > Don't you have a Rootsweb list? I have lost it. > Please dont give up. > David > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: throwing in the proverbial towel > Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 18:55:17 -0400 > From: "lankford" <lankford@gte.net> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Hi Patrick, > > I joined this list to ck on a relattive of my Uncle's. He is in his 80's > and never knew his family not even his Father. His Fathher died when he was > 9 mos. old. His GMother was Emma Payne from Kent, England. I have stayed > with the list because of you. The research you do is extremely interesting > and stirs many questions. I wish there was a visible researcher for my > Father's line. (Lankford) > > I have learned a great deal about research just by reading your posts. I > have visited your site and enjoyed it thoroughly. I often go back just to > see what you have discovered or to get ideas of what documents might hold a > clue for me. Please understand your research, if read thourghly, benafits > others even if they are not researching the Payne line. > > HIT THE DELETE KEY. Those of us who are interested in our heritage for our > Families understand and thoes who don't -------OH WELL. > > Mary Ann > in Florida > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: throwing in the proverbial towel > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:57:09 -0700 > From: Olson <mjo@accessone.com> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > > Patrick, > > My grandmother always said, when I was particularly upset, "If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear > it." I have learned so much from your posts and look forward to them. Don't let those Payne's > in the neck get the better of you. > > Every Payne in my family has a wonderful quality, we are all stubborn! So get your Payne up and > hit that delete button! > > Cherie R. Olson > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: Don't quit Patrick > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:01:24 +1000 > From: "Diann Payne" <diann@f1.net.au> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Patrick, > Yes, I am another who appreciates your postings. And finally I might even > have done enough family history to be able to connect my Paynes to those > back in the early 1700s and 1600s. I appreciate all the clues I can get > about my family history. > Regards, > Diann Payne > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: throwing in the proverbial towel > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 19:12:17 -0400 > From: Wesley Gann <wesgann@bellsouth.net> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > While I have not been on this list too long, I can tell you that I have lines > that want to argue and alienate over the spelling of a name, much less hanky > panky between cousins etc. If I had let this get to me I would have quit > searching for my "families" about as soon as I got started. If you leave now, > you will only leave a void for researchers looking only for the truth, that > void being filled by those that mutually, we can all do without. > Best of Wishes With Your Decision > Wesley Gann > Patrick Payne wrote: > > > For some, this will be a welcome post and one long overdue... > > > > This will be my last post to this list. It seems there are those out there > > that are hell bent on twisting my words and discrediting my research > > efforts- without once referring to the records. These people have NEVER > > visited my web site to review the records available there (one reason that > > I required registration in the first place), base their attacks solely on > > my posts to the list (- after mixing my words around to suit their > > purpose), have made NO EFFORT to study the records of the over one dozen > > ACTIVE PAYNE mariners of the 17th century (that nobody ever seems to > > discuss or even mention), refuse to believe there is ANY possibility of a > > relationship between branches- although there is tons of evidence within > > *these* records that strongly suggest otherwise. Regardless of what anyone > > believes about these families or what the truth will ultimately turn out to > > be- these records deserve our study as all published sources are silent on > > them. We have glaring holes in our research if we don't include them. > > Moreover, I have raised numerous questions that deserve some answers. We > > are "missing the boat" if we don't account for them or consider the > > importance of the facts that they owned and captained ships (THE SAME > > SHIPS!) throughout the 17th century, regularly intermarried and associated > > with families of the same surnames (- no matter where we find them and over > > a period of decades, not just a couple of records- mounds of them), were > > involved in such large enterprises as iron works (not just in New England > > either) which was a very significant concern in those days, intermarried > > and associated with some of the most notable clergymen of the day, or a > > host of other important considerations that is NEVER brought to the > > forefront of our research. I simply tried to address those issues that we > > otherwise never hear about. > > > > There are OTHER WAYS to prove relationships apart from a record that says > > Joe was the son of John DOE! A record like that might be ideal, but in the > > early 17th century, we may never have that luxury and we therefore must > > make the best use of ALL THE DATA we have available to us. Yes- that means > > that we will sometimes have to wade through some dung to find the gold. > > Those that refuse to do so and wait on the magic record to appear, in my > > opinion, are the ones responsible for both limiting progress and alienating > > some fine researchers from contributing their finds. In short, if you are > > going to criticize someone, at least have the consideration to have given > > their ideas serious thought and study. If you haven't even LOOKED at it- > > what right do you have? It's as if these people believe that solely because > > I have found the same names occurring in records that I have somehow > > determined that there is a relationship between them! This only goes to > > show that they have not been paying attention :-} > > > > I will be leaving my web site on-line but I do not know if I will continue > > trying to make updates to it. Haven't decided yet... The mailing lists will > > also remain active, although I will probably seek a new owner for them. I > > hate to do this to the many kind folks I have met over the years who have > > given me their support. Unfortunately, for every 100 letters of support I > > get, the few I get from these others ruins any satisfaction I would get > > from my effort. It makes it all seem pointless and has made me think about > > who I am doing this for anyway? The answer is for myself and my family. > > > > I don't think some people realize the time, effort, and money that I have > > sunk into this project. Over nearly three years, I have pursued this > > "hobby" virtually full-time. I don't mean 8 hours per day either. Every > > waking and free moment has been spent on it. I left my job (as an > > administrator with a high-tech company) in order to pursue this research > > unhindered by any other responsibilities. Since that time, I have spent > > roughly 18 hours per day and literally thousands of dollars in savings for > > travel costs, books, memberships, and professional assistance. I did not > > do this on a whim. I did it because I was convinced by *these* records > > (combined with known facts) that I was on to something *and* I still > > believe that! Over the past several months, many others have come to feel > > this way too as every week it seems I would receive some information that > > coincides perfectly with the story I have been putting together. They, too, > > are becoming excited about the new doors that have opened for them. This > > support has come from not only PAYNE researchers, but Allied families as > > well. I have received encouragement from noted historians, such as > > Professor Bailyn (please read "The New England Merchants of the 17th > > Century") and others. I suppose I'm being rather "thin-skinned" in the long > > run, but it's just not worth it anymore. At a time when the research has > > been yielding some of its best results too! > > > > I would like to think that I am an intelligent person with an above > > average ability in abstract reasoning, problem-solving, etc. My IQ, as last > > tested by the military, was 128. I passed the air-traffic controllers exam > > with a score of 97 (102 if I include my veterans preference points). If > > anyone has ever picked up a study guide for that exam in a bookstore, you > > know that this was no easy accomplishment! You may wonder, "what does THAT > > have to do with genealogy research?" Much more than you would think, > > believe me! One of the prime reasons of the test is to determine the > > ability to recognize patterns and recurring events. I don't include this as > > some form of self-praise. Just to show I'm no idiot, as some would > > apparently label me. > > > > Lastly, I want to say how unfortunate it is that I am not alone in my > > feelings. I have met several researchers who simply have given up for the > > same reasons- a few bad apples who do not realize the insult they give. > > Maybe I am guilty of it too. I understand that many of you have been > > researching for years and years- possibly even longer than I've been alive! > > But that is NO EXCUSE for some of the letters I have received. Just because > > you may have spent the last 100 years researching, it does not mean that > > there is no room for alternate ways of thinking. Nor does it give you > > license to become the PAYNE POLICE and attack others. If you disagree with > > the research of others, point out SPECIFIC items. But DO NOT just attack > > every aspect of their effort! > > > > Good Luck to you "thicker-skinned" folks out there. I'm not admitting > > defeat- just moving on to avoid people like these- who uncannily seem to > > all be on this list! But- there I go using my brain again to draw > > conclusions based on observation and record ;-} The very thing that caused > > this mess to begin with! Those of you who would like to keep in touch with > > me will know how to reach me and I look forward to hearing from you. It's > > just time to become a little less public for fear of being trounced. Walls > > may come down here and there, but this is the biggest one we face. Until it > > comes down, no significant advances will be made on answering many of the > > questions. Everyone is to afraid to ask them or suggest solutions for them- > > because they are not based on the same old outdated accounts of the 1930's > > that we have grown accustomed to. While those accounts have their place, > > they are but foundations to build on at this point. Just like the > > historians accounts of Colonial America, these, too, have limited > > themselves to particular areas of settlement- Virginia, Massachusetts, > > Maine, Connecticut, etc... There is a bigger picture out there folks! > > > > I hope we all come to realize that one day. Buck the norm. Be original and > > consider everything- no matter how outlandish you may think it is. It may > > be the key you need. > > > > A last contribution on a happy note- although no PAYNE's are mentioned in > > the following, it does have its place in PAYNE research for those that will > > look for it. It was posted to the LONDON-COMPANYS-L list today: > > > > "The Story of the Pilgrim Fathers, > > 1606-1623 A.D." by Edward Arber > > Chapter "The two Virginia Companies" > > Page 254 > > "The Rev. Doctor E.D. Neill adds, "He was hired by Daniel Gookin, owner > > of the Providence, to take that ship to Virginia which arrived April > > 10th, 1623.[see S.P. Colonial, Vol.II, 10 April 1623]." > > This reference refers to John Clarke, hired by Gookin. John had taken > > cattle from Ireland to Virginia in 1619. > > > > On this site,http://www.ida.net/users/dhanco/names.htm#names1, I found > > the following: > > 1644 > > Daniel Gookin (1612-1687), son of an early Irish settler in Virginia, > > moves to Massachusetts and eventually becomes a member of the > > Governor's > > Council, major general of the militia, and superintendent of Indian > > affairs. > > Are we talking about the same family here??? > > > > At this site: > > > > http://www.historichamptonroads.com/Documents/Definitions/Definitions.htm > > > > Marie's Mount: Pronounced "Mary’s". Located in current day downtown > > Newport News. Marie's Mount was named after the wife of the first known > > settler in Newport News, Daniel Gookin, Sr. > > > > Here: > > > > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dave_rigney/history/history.htm > > >From Adventures of Purse and Person > > > > William Cole (William) bought, 1671, the "Bolthrupe" plantation of 1350 > > acres lying on the Warwick River between "Denbigh," the > > Mathews plantation, and "Windmill Point," the seat of the Carys. In > > addition, on 20 April 1685 Cole acquired 1433 acres laying > > largely in Warwick County but partly in Elizabeth City, "commonly called > > Newport News according to the most ancient and lawful > > bounds." This was the major portion of a grant to the heirs of Daniel > > Gookin, who had settled at Newport News, March 1621/22. > > It extended along the James River from its mouth approximately four > > miles. > > And here: > > > > http://www.heritagebooks.com/neweng.htm > > > > The Register, Vol. 4, 1850 - Genealogies: Bradford; Davenport; Gilbert; > > Gookin; Leverett; Otis; Wentworth; Winslow; Wright. > > Records: physicians of Ipswich MA; Saybrook CT vr; list of Freemen; > > Dover NH town records; Plymouth Co MA wills; Suffolk > > Co MA wills; Boston area vr; Weymouth MA vr; passengers for VA; Wrentham > > MA vr; marr & deaths from news.; Dorchester > > MA inscr; Marshfield MA inscr; Gloucester MA vr; Reprint, 388 pp., > > index. paper, $31.00 #ZNR04 > > > > One of Daniel's men: > > > > http://www.esva.net/ghotes/saxis/d2/i0012015.htm > > Henry immigrated to 1623.(10339) Henry was living after 1632/3 in > > Accawmack Co, VA.(10340) Henry's will was probated 26 Nov > > 1635 in Accawmack Co, VA.(10341) Henry Carsley came to Virginia in 1623 > > in the "Providence" and at the age of 23 years when > > the muster was taken in Feb 1624/5, was living at Newport News, VA, as > > one of Daniel Gookin's men. Henry was a headright > > named in Daniel Gookin's patent for 2500 acres in Upper Norfolk Co, 29 > > > > Dec 1637, pursuant to order of court, 25 Feb 1634/5. The > > shipping and cattle breeding enterprise projected by Gookin did not > > prosper and Henry Carsley migrated to the Eastern Shore > > where many settlers began to take up land after the 1621/2 massacre. On > > 19 Feb 1633/4 Carsley petitioned the court held at"Accawmack" for a > > lease of 50 acres upon Old Plantation Creek (in present day Northampton > > Co) on the south side of Fishing Creek. > > > > At least this begins to give you a picture of where the grant was and > > confirms the cattle tie to the Gookins. I believe you will find Daniel, > > the owner of the Providence to be the father of the Daniel who came to > > Virginia (born 1612) and then to Massachusetts. The patent in 1620 would > > have been to the father. One of the Masters of the Providence was a > > Richmond. > > > > Gail > > > > ______________________________X-Message: #5 > > Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:41:33 -0400 > > From: Gail Howard <dardena@mix-net.net> > > To: LONDON-COMPANYS-L@rootsweb.com > > Message-ID: <37CB32CD.F7AFE8BE@mix-net.net> > > Subject: Re: GOOKIN reply > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > Today I have found Daniel Gookin's name spelled Coohin and Cookin so be > > aware that the G looks like a C in handwriting and the k like an h. > > Below is from the Virginia Library Colonial Records Project: > > > > SR05860 > > Reel #856 page 5 > > > > 6, f.375vo 25 Aug 1624 > > > > "John Driver of Bristol, shipwright, aged 38, deposed that he built > > the ship Mary Providence of Cork near Bristol about 2 1/2 years before, > > and that it was sold to Daniel Coohin of Galway and Jenkins, and fitted > > out for a voyage to Virginia, and he knew that the cost of fitting her > > out was L400 and upwards." > > > > So we have learned Daniel Gookin was the owner of at least two ships, > > the Providence and the Mary Providence. That they likely sailed out of > > Cork, Ireland with cattle for Virginia and Daniel was "of Galway and > > Jenkins". > > He apparently had his ships built at Bristol (at least one was) and from > > the list at the Colonial Records Project, the Providence made many > > trips. > > Considering the cost of outfitting a ship for upwards of L400, Daniel > > apparently was not poor. > > > > In Richmond Family Records (I found the connection, Dick!) > > Page 146 > > Jan. 9, 1623/4 > > Capt. Richard[Richmond alias Sheppard] with his brother or son Lt. John > > is last heard of in command of a privateer, the Mary Providence, in Va. > > > > In Bennett's History of Bandon, p243. > > Daniel Gookin, gent., who owned part of the cargo of this ship [Mary > > Providence] and who founded a colony in Va. was related to the Gookins > > of Ireland. > > > > These are people from Bandon in County Cork, Ireland. You may find the > > family vital statistics there. > > Good Luck! > > > > Gail > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: J.G.Payne > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:28:04 -0700 > From: Sherry Davis-Ellis <bluefairies@uswest.net> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Hello, > I am searching for J.G. Payne also known as James G. Payne > had 8 children in Bell Co. TX Born around 1824 in Tenn. or > Missouri. Died in 1897 of MArch > in Bell County Texas. His wife's name Mary M, of LA. found > them in the 1880 census but last name spelled wrong, (PANE) > Anyone out there, can you help me. I am stuck. > Thank you > Sherry Davis-Ellis > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: throwing in the proverbial towel > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 19:41:15 -0500 (CDT) > From: William McMahon <wmcm@connecti.com> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > At 10:57 AM 08/30/1999 -0400, Patrick Payne wrote: > > > >For some, this will be a welcome post and one long overdue... > > > >This will be my last post to this list. It seems there are those out there > >that are hell bent on twisting my words and discrediting my research > >efforts- without once referring to the records. These people have NEVER > >visited my web site to review the records available there (one reason that > >I required registration in the first place), base their attacks solely on > >my posts to the list (- after mixing my words around to suit their > >purpose), . . . . . . . .snip. . . . . . > > Patrick, > > I do hope you will reconsider your decision, as many of us do appreciate > your research. I, for one, am very gratefull for your research as you > have provided me the ancestors of Dorcas PAYNE, dau of Isaiah PAYNE and Ann > WILLIAMS, who married James MACHEN. This is one of my lines that I had > not yet allocated time to research. But when I do get the time, you have > given me the background references to go to search for the proof. [I > intend to fill you in on the descendants of this marriage within the next > few weeks.] > > I am a retired research chemist, and am familar with the techniques of > literature research, and for folks to reject and criticize your work is > either just plain ignorance of research techniques or just plain bull > headed arrogance. [I do remember that there were all kinds of hell raising > over your use of a username and password.] On a list as large as this > one, there are always a few who will accuse anyone of most anything, > just because they want and expect to see every little thing printed in > black and white with all the "i's" dotted and the "t's" crossed. They > are intolerant of "hyphotheses" and "theories" because they want only > "FACTS" (or "LAWS"). You are working on your hyphotheses and by gathering > information have formulated a theory about the Payne families. Ultimately > you hope to gather enough information to prove your theory or discount it. > This is the scientific method which applies to any kind of research, > whether it is chemistry, physics, history or genealogy. People who > are critical of your research remind one of the folks who said > Columbus was going to sail off the edge of the earth into space > because the earth "is flat". > > I do hope you will stick with us and don't give up the ship. You > have made progress and I believe the majority of us are interested > in your findings and wish you luck in your quest. Whether you are right, > or wrong, in your theory, you will have gained a greater understanding > of history and the Payne family, and will be a better person from your > experience. > > The objective of research is to gain knowledge, and those who reject > this objective are really not interested in genealogy. Unfortunately, > some are only interested in "a real long list of names" and care less > about the people and their contributions to society, family, etc. > > Wishing you the best, and whether you stay or go, I'll keep in touch, > > Bill McMahon > List Manager: BROWDER & McMAHON Lists. McMAHON List Welcomes > ALL Spelling Variants of McMAHON,McMAHAN,McMAHEN,MAHON,MAHAN > Your Support Keeps RootsWeb FREE TO All!! > http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: throwing in the proverbial towel > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:18:33 -0400 > From: Bill Hobbs <hobbs@usit.net> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Patrick, > > Just think of the PAYNE list as a warm-up round for VAroots. On the > VAroots list one can get flamed for the mere suggestion that the > lifestyles of our ancestors have anything at all to do with genealogy. > I have been skewered in private posts from that list more than once. > This is why your computer company has provided you with a delete key :-) > > If you do not find deleting to be satisfactory, there are available to > you some time-honored Anglo-Saxon words and phrases that can be sent via > return Email. > > Above all, remember that anyone who ever did anything worthwhile had > detractors. The results of your research seem to be hitting a nerve > with many people. Some react positively, some negatively. Either > reaction is far better than being ignored! > > Bill Hobbs > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: throwing in the towel > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 20:30:31 -0500 > From: "Martha W. Acker" <mwacker@bellsouth.net> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Patrick, > Why don't you start a Payne-Mariner-L at roots web so that those must be > so troubled do not have to be bothered by your research, and those of us > who wish to can subscribe and regularly receive and send postings? I > think it is interesting that your detractors do not make their remarks > to the list, so the group can read and assess them. > Martha > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: throwing in the towel > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:53:34 -0700 > From: "Megan Payne" <megan@demoroom.com> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Patrick, > > Please don't stop posting. Although I would _never_ advocate a flame war, if > someone says something particularly bothersome, you could do what my friends > and I do: we take the most absurd postition possible. For example: one of my > friends detests abortion debates, so he always says, "It is a tragedy when > any fetus is carried to term." That usually stops people cold in their > tracks. Besides, it is funny. -I know, I know... I have a sick sense of > humor. :) > > Megan > > >Patrick, > >Why don't you start a Payne-Mariner-L at roots web so that those must be > >so troubled do not have to be bothered by your research, and those of us > >who wish to can subscribe and regularly receive and send postings? I > >think it is interesting that your detractors do not make their remarks > >to the list, so the group can read and assess them. > >Martha > > > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: Patrick Payne's Towel > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 22:14:39 -0500 > From: "Raymond L. Gann" <gannrl@fullnet.net> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Dear Patrick: > > Include me as one of your fans. My impression o

Dear Jessie Payne Day, Hi I was wondering where your family came from. But I had a great uncle with the name Jesse Payne Smith . Are you two related? Sincerely Sherry Davis-Ellis Arizona USA PAYNE-D-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > Subject: > > PAYNE-D Digest Volume 99 : Issue 188 > > Today's Topics: > #1 Re: Throwing in the towel: [Bryant548@aol.com] > #2 Re: Malockie Paine/Henry Paine ["diane k" <skunk@coastalnet.com>] > #3 Hi ["Karlen Day" <daycross@bright.net>] > #4 Quitting ["David Payne" <otime@hotmail.com>] > #5 Re: throwing in the proverbial tow ["lankford" <lankford@gte.net>] > #6 Re: throwing in the proverbial tow [Olson <mjo@accessone.com>] > #7 Re: Don't quit Patrick ["Diann Payne" <diann@f1.net.au>] > #8 Re: throwing in the proverbial tow [Wesley Gann <wesgann@bellsouth.net] > #9 J.G.Payne [Sherry Davis-Ellis <bluefairies@us] > #10 Re: throwing in the proverbial tow [William McMahon <wmcm@connecti.com] > #11 Re: throwing in the proverbial tow [Bill Hobbs <hobbs@usit.net>] > #12 throwing in the towel ["Martha W. Acker" <mwacker@bellsou] > #13 Re: throwing in the towel ["Megan Payne" <megan@demoroom.com>] > #14 Re: Patrick Payne's Towel ["Raymond L. Gann" <gannrl@fullnet.] > > Administrivia: > To unsubscribe from PAYNE-D, send a message to > > PAYNE-D-request@rootsweb.com > > that contains in the body of the message the command > > unsubscribe > > and no other text. No subject line is necessary, but if your software > requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, too. > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: Throwing in the towel: > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:18:10 EDT > From: Bryant548@aol.com > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Cousins, > I just joined this list about a week ago. The first mail I got was sent > privately instead of the list. The quote was, "there are a lot of people > there who have to be right ( whether they are not.) The arguing and insults > got old." > > Now we have this dialogue going on about throwing in the towel! What is > the matter with you people. Is this part of the Payne personality? People > on other list that I belong to don't act this way. I though it was all about > helping one another to gather as much information as possible then prove or > disprove the information together as a team. > > I am amazed! > > Barbara Bryant > Clearwater FL and Wakefield, PQ > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: Malockie Paine/Henry Paine > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:50:37 -0400 > From: "diane k" <skunk@coastalnet.com> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Hello, I want to thank you for replying to me about Henry Paine. > > I found it all very very interesting and helpful. > > sorry I didn't get back right away. I am just swamped with mail and every > now and then I accidently hit the "mark all as read" key and then really > get behind. > > Anyone know how to "undo" the "mark all as read" key? > > Thanks Pat for being so quick to share. > > diane > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Hi > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:04:58 -0400 > From: "Karlen Day" <daycross@bright.net> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Hi My name is Jessie Payne Day I've have been reading your e'mail > messages with great interest, but I have come to the conclusion that you > must not be from my Payne family. If anybody said anything derogatory to > any of us, we immediately bristled and went after them - how dare they say > that. Maybe you got that soft heart from your Mothers side. And believe > me that's good to be sensitive - however, don't let some boor out there > that don't even like themself or anybody else that's doing something good > for other people stop you. Get your dander up and know there are lots of > us out here that say thank you. I'm 65 years old and don't fully > understand this computer and not even sure I have your right address, but I > trust in God that you will receive this. > > God Bless you and Please don't give up > > Jessie Payne Day > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Quitting > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:08:06 PDT > From: "David Payne" <otime@hotmail.com> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Patrick, > I for one have been enjoying your info that keeps coming in on the list. > Please don't stop. Just ignore the stiffs. > If you quit, let me know where I can find your info. I am having trouble > getting info from your site. > Don't you have a Rootsweb list? I have lost it. > Please dont give up. > David > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: throwing in the proverbial towel > Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 18:55:17 -0400 > From: "lankford" <lankford@gte.net> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Hi Patrick, > > I joined this list to ck on a relattive of my Uncle's. He is in his 80's > and never knew his family not even his Father. His Fathher died when he was > 9 mos. old. His GMother was Emma Payne from Kent, England. I have stayed > with the list because of you. The research you do is extremely interesting > and stirs many questions. I wish there was a visible researcher for my > Father's line. (Lankford) > > I have learned a great deal about research just by reading your posts. I > have visited your site and enjoyed it thoroughly. I often go back just to > see what you have discovered or to get ideas of what documents might hold a > clue for me. Please understand your research, if read thourghly, benafits > others even if they are not researching the Payne line. > > HIT THE DELETE KEY. Those of us who are interested in our heritage for our > Families understand and thoes who don't -------OH WELL. > > Mary Ann > in Florida > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: throwing in the proverbial towel > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:57:09 -0700 > From: Olson <mjo@accessone.com> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > > Patrick, > > My grandmother always said, when I was particularly upset, "If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear > it." I have learned so much from your posts and look forward to them. Don't let those Payne's > in the neck get the better of you. > > Every Payne in my family has a wonderful quality, we are all stubborn! So get your Payne up and > hit that delete button! > > Cherie R. Olson > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: Don't quit Patrick > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:01:24 +1000 > From: "Diann Payne" <diann@f1.net.au> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Patrick, > Yes, I am another who appreciates your postings. And finally I might even > have done enough family history to be able to connect my Paynes to those > back in the early 1700s and 1600s. I appreciate all the clues I can get > about my family history. > Regards, > Diann Payne > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: throwing in the proverbial towel > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 19:12:17 -0400 > From: Wesley Gann <wesgann@bellsouth.net> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > While I have not been on this list too long, I can tell you that I have lines > that want to argue and alienate over the spelling of a name, much less hanky > panky between cousins etc. If I had let this get to me I would have quit > searching for my "families" about as soon as I got started. If you leave now, > you will only leave a void for researchers looking only for the truth, that > void being filled by those that mutually, we can all do without. > Best of Wishes With Your Decision > Wesley Gann > Patrick Payne wrote: > > > For some, this will be a welcome post and one long overdue... > > > > This will be my last post to this list. It seems there are those out there > > that are hell bent on twisting my words and discrediting my research > > efforts- without once referring to the records. These people have NEVER > > visited my web site to review the records available there (one reason that > > I required registration in the first place), base their attacks solely on > > my posts to the list (- after mixing my words around to suit their > > purpose), have made NO EFFORT to study the records of the over one dozen > > ACTIVE PAYNE mariners of the 17th century (that nobody ever seems to > > discuss or even mention), refuse to believe there is ANY possibility of a > > relationship between branches- although there is tons of evidence within > > *these* records that strongly suggest otherwise. Regardless of what anyone > > believes about these families or what the truth will ultimately turn out to > > be- these records deserve our study as all published sources are silent on > > them. We have glaring holes in our research if we don't include them. > > Moreover, I have raised numerous questions that deserve some answers. We > > are "missing the boat" if we don't account for them or consider the > > importance of the facts that they owned and captained ships (THE SAME > > SHIPS!) throughout the 17th century, regularly intermarried and associated > > with families of the same surnames (- no matter where we find them and over > > a period of decades, not just a couple of records- mounds of them), were > > involved in such large enterprises as iron works (not just in New England > > either) which was a very significant concern in those days, intermarried > > and associated with some of the most notable clergymen of the day, or a > > host of other important considerations that is NEVER brought to the > > forefront of our research. I simply tried to address those issues that we > > otherwise never hear about. > > > > There are OTHER WAYS to prove relationships apart from a record that says > > Joe was the son of John DOE! A record like that might be ideal, but in the > > early 17th century, we may never have that luxury and we therefore must > > make the best use of ALL THE DATA we have available to us. Yes- that means > > that we will sometimes have to wade through some dung to find the gold. > > Those that refuse to do so and wait on the magic record to appear, in my > > opinion, are the ones responsible for both limiting progress and alienating > > some fine researchers from contributing their finds. In short, if you are > > going to criticize someone, at least have the consideration to have given > > their ideas serious thought and study. If you haven't even LOOKED at it- > > what right do you have? It's as if these people believe that solely because > > I have found the same names occurring in records that I have somehow > > determined that there is a relationship between them! This only goes to > > show that they have not been paying attention :-} > > > > I will be leaving my web site on-line but I do not know if I will continue > > trying to make updates to it. Haven't decided yet... The mailing lists will > > also remain active, although I will probably seek a new owner for them. I > > hate to do this to the many kind folks I have met over the years who have > > given me their support. Unfortunately, for every 100 letters of support I > > get, the few I get from these others ruins any satisfaction I would get > > from my effort. It makes it all seem pointless and has made me think about > > who I am doing this for anyway? The answer is for myself and my family. > > > > I don't think some people realize the time, effort, and money that I have > > sunk into this project. Over nearly three years, I have pursued this > > "hobby" virtually full-time. I don't mean 8 hours per day either. Every > > waking and free moment has been spent on it. I left my job (as an > > administrator with a high-tech company) in order to pursue this research > > unhindered by any other responsibilities. Since that time, I have spent > > roughly 18 hours per day and literally thousands of dollars in savings for > > travel costs, books, memberships, and professional assistance. I did not > > do this on a whim. I did it because I was convinced by *these* records > > (combined with known facts) that I was on to something *and* I still > > believe that! Over the past several months, many others have come to feel > > this way too as every week it seems I would receive some information that > > coincides perfectly with the story I have been putting together. They, too, > > are becoming excited about the new doors that have opened for them. This > > support has come from not only PAYNE researchers, but Allied families as > > well. I have received encouragement from noted historians, such as > > Professor Bailyn (please read "The New England Merchants of the 17th > > Century") and others. I suppose I'm being rather "thin-skinned" in the long > > run, but it's just not worth it anymore. At a time when the research has > > been yielding some of its best results too! > > > > I would like to think that I am an intelligent person with an above > > average ability in abstract reasoning, problem-solving, etc. My IQ, as last > > tested by the military, was 128. I passed the air-traffic controllers exam > > with a score of 97 (102 if I include my veterans preference points). If > > anyone has ever picked up a study guide for that exam in a bookstore, you > > know that this was no easy accomplishment! You may wonder, "what does THAT > > have to do with genealogy research?" Much more than you would think, > > believe me! One of the prime reasons of the test is to determine the > > ability to recognize patterns and recurring events. I don't include this as > > some form of self-praise. Just to show I'm no idiot, as some would > > apparently label me. > > > > Lastly, I want to say how unfortunate it is that I am not alone in my > > feelings. I have met several researchers who simply have given up for the > > same reasons- a few bad apples who do not realize the insult they give. > > Maybe I am guilty of it too. I understand that many of you have been > > researching for years and years- possibly even longer than I've been alive! > > But that is NO EXCUSE for some of the letters I have received. Just because > > you may have spent the last 100 years researching, it does not mean that > > there is no room for alternate ways of thinking. Nor does it give you > > license to become the PAYNE POLICE and attack others. If you disagree with > > the research of others, point out SPECIFIC items. But DO NOT just attack > > every aspect of their effort! > > > > Good Luck to you "thicker-skinned" folks out there. I'm not admitting > > defeat- just moving on to avoid people like these- who uncannily seem to > > all be on this list! But- there I go using my brain again to draw > > conclusions based on observation and record ;-} The very thing that caused > > this mess to begin with! Those of you who would like to keep in touch with > > me will know how to reach me and I look forward to hearing from you. It's > > just time to become a little less public for fear of being trounced. Walls > > may come down here and there, but this is the biggest one we face. Until it > > comes down, no significant advances will be made on answering many of the > > questions. Everyone is to afraid to ask them or suggest solutions for them- > > because they are not based on the same old outdated accounts of the 1930's > > that we have grown accustomed to. While those accounts have their place, > > they are but foundations to build on at this point. Just like the > > historians accounts of Colonial America, these, too, have limited > > themselves to particular areas of settlement- Virginia, Massachusetts, > > Maine, Connecticut, etc... There is a bigger picture out there folks! > > > > I hope we all come to realize that one day. Buck the norm. Be original and > > consider everything- no matter how outlandish you may think it is. It may > > be the key you need. > > > > A last contribution on a happy note- although no PAYNE's are mentioned in > > the following, it does have its place in PAYNE research for those that will > > look for it. It was posted to the LONDON-COMPANYS-L list today: > > > > "The Story of the Pilgrim Fathers, > > 1606-1623 A.D." by Edward Arber > > Chapter "The two Virginia Companies" > > Page 254 > > "The Rev. Doctor E.D. Neill adds, "He was hired by Daniel Gookin, owner > > of the Providence, to take that ship to Virginia which arrived April > > 10th, 1623.[see S.P. Colonial, Vol.II, 10 April 1623]." > > This reference refers to John Clarke, hired by Gookin. John had taken > > cattle from Ireland to Virginia in 1619. > > > > On this site,http://www.ida.net/users/dhanco/names.htm#names1, I found > > the following: > > 1644 > > Daniel Gookin (1612-1687), son of an early Irish settler in Virginia, > > moves to Massachusetts and eventually becomes a member of the > > Governor's > > Council, major general of the militia, and superintendent of Indian > > affairs. > > Are we talking about the same family here??? > > > > At this site: > > > > http://www.historichamptonroads.com/Documents/Definitions/Definitions.htm > > > > Marie's Mount: Pronounced "Mary’s". Located in current day downtown > > Newport News. Marie's Mount was named after the wife of the first known > > settler in Newport News, Daniel Gookin, Sr. > > > > Here: > > > > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dave_rigney/history/history.htm > > >From Adventures of Purse and Person > > > > William Cole (William) bought, 1671, the "Bolthrupe" plantation of 1350 > > acres lying on the Warwick River between "Denbigh," the > > Mathews plantation, and "Windmill Point," the seat of the Carys. In > > addition, on 20 April 1685 Cole acquired 1433 acres laying > > largely in Warwick County but partly in Elizabeth City, "commonly called > > Newport News according to the most ancient and lawful > > bounds." This was the major portion of a grant to the heirs of Daniel > > Gookin, who had settled at Newport News, March 1621/22. > > It extended along the James River from its mouth approximately four > > miles. > > And here: > > > > http://www.heritagebooks.com/neweng.htm > > > > The Register, Vol. 4, 1850 - Genealogies: Bradford; Davenport; Gilbert; > > Gookin; Leverett; Otis; Wentworth; Winslow; Wright. > > Records: physicians of Ipswich MA; Saybrook CT vr; list of Freemen; > > Dover NH town records; Plymouth Co MA wills; Suffolk > > Co MA wills; Boston area vr; Weymouth MA vr; passengers for VA; Wrentham > > MA vr; marr & deaths from news.; Dorchester > > MA inscr; Marshfield MA inscr; Gloucester MA vr; Reprint, 388 pp., > > index. paper, $31.00 #ZNR04 > > > > One of Daniel's men: > > > > http://www.esva.net/ghotes/saxis/d2/i0012015.htm > > Henry immigrated to 1623.(10339) Henry was living after 1632/3 in > > Accawmack Co, VA.(10340) Henry's will was probated 26 Nov > > 1635 in Accawmack Co, VA.(10341) Henry Carsley came to Virginia in 1623 > > in the "Providence" and at the age of 23 years when > > the muster was taken in Feb 1624/5, was living at Newport News, VA, as > > one of Daniel Gookin's men. Henry was a headright > > named in Daniel Gookin's patent for 2500 acres in Upper Norfolk Co, 29 > > > > Dec 1637, pursuant to order of court, 25 Feb 1634/5. The > > shipping and cattle breeding enterprise projected by Gookin did not > > prosper and Henry Carsley migrated to the Eastern Shore > > where many settlers began to take up land after the 1621/2 massacre. On > > 19 Feb 1633/4 Carsley petitioned the court held at"Accawmack" for a > > lease of 50 acres upon Old Plantation Creek (in present day Northampton > > Co) on the south side of Fishing Creek. > > > > At least this begins to give you a picture of where the grant was and > > confirms the cattle tie to the Gookins. I believe you will find Daniel, > > the owner of the Providence to be the father of the Daniel who came to > > Virginia (born 1612) and then to Massachusetts. The patent in 1620 would > > have been to the father. One of the Masters of the Providence was a > > Richmond. > > > > Gail > > > > ______________________________X-Message: #5 > > Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:41:33 -0400 > > From: Gail Howard <dardena@mix-net.net> > > To: LONDON-COMPANYS-L@rootsweb.com > > Message-ID: <37CB32CD.F7AFE8BE@mix-net.net> > > Subject: Re: GOOKIN reply > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > Today I have found Daniel Gookin's name spelled Coohin and Cookin so be > > aware that the G looks like a C in handwriting and the k like an h. > > Below is from the Virginia Library Colonial Records Project: > > > > SR05860 > > Reel #856 page 5 > > > > 6, f.375vo 25 Aug 1624 > > > > "John Driver of Bristol, shipwright, aged 38, deposed that he built > > the ship Mary Providence of Cork near Bristol about 2 1/2 years before, > > and that it was sold to Daniel Coohin of Galway and Jenkins, and fitted > > out for a voyage to Virginia, and he knew that the cost of fitting her > > out was L400 and upwards." > > > > So we have learned Daniel Gookin was the owner of at least two ships, > > the Providence and the Mary Providence. That they likely sailed out of > > Cork, Ireland with cattle for Virginia and Daniel was "of Galway and > > Jenkins". > > He apparently had his ships built at Bristol (at least one was) and from > > the list at the Colonial Records Project, the Providence made many > > trips. > > Considering the cost of outfitting a ship for upwards of L400, Daniel > > apparently was not poor. > > > > In Richmond Family Records (I found the connection, Dick!) > > Page 146 > > Jan. 9, 1623/4 > > Capt. Richard[Richmond alias Sheppard] with his brother or son Lt. John > > is last heard of in command of a privateer, the Mary Providence, in Va. > > > > In Bennett's History of Bandon, p243. > > Daniel Gookin, gent., who owned part of the cargo of this ship [Mary > > Providence] and who founded a colony in Va. was related to the Gookins > > of Ireland. > > > > These are people from Bandon in County Cork, Ireland. You may find the > > family vital statistics there. > > Good Luck! > > > > Gail > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: J.G.Payne > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:28:04 -0700 > From: Sherry Davis-Ellis <bluefairies@uswest.net> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Hello, > I am searching for J.G. Payne also known as James G. Payne > had 8 children in Bell Co. TX Born around 1824 in Tenn. or > Missouri. Died in 1897 of MArch > in Bell County Texas. His wife's name Mary M, of LA. found > them in the 1880 census but last name spelled wrong, (PANE) > Anyone out there, can you help me. I am stuck. > Thank you > Sherry Davis-Ellis > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: throwing in the proverbial towel > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 19:41:15 -0500 (CDT) > From: William McMahon <wmcm@connecti.com> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > At 10:57 AM 08/30/1999 -0400, Patrick Payne wrote: > > > >For some, this will be a welcome post and one long overdue... > > > >This will be my last post to this list. It seems there are those out there > >that are hell bent on twisting my words and discrediting my research > >efforts- without once referring to the records. These people have NEVER > >visited my web site to review the records available there (one reason that > >I required registration in the first place), base their attacks solely on > >my posts to the list (- after mixing my words around to suit their > >purpose), . . . . . . . .snip. . . . . . > > Patrick, > > I do hope you will reconsider your decision, as many of us do appreciate > your research. I, for one, am very gratefull for your research as you > have provided me the ancestors of Dorcas PAYNE, dau of Isaiah PAYNE and Ann > WILLIAMS, who married James MACHEN. This is one of my lines that I had > not yet allocated time to research. But when I do get the time, you have > given me the background references to go to search for the proof. [I > intend to fill you in on the descendants of this marriage within the next > few weeks.] > > I am a retired research chemist, and am familar with the techniques of > literature research, and for folks to reject and criticize your work is > either just plain ignorance of research techniques or just plain bull > headed arrogance. [I do remember that there were all kinds of hell raising > over your use of a username and password.] On a list as large as this > one, there are always a few who will accuse anyone of most anything, > just because they want and expect to see every little thing printed in > black and white with all the "i's" dotted and the "t's" crossed. They > are intolerant of "hyphotheses" and "theories" because they want only > "FACTS" (or "LAWS"). You are working on your hyphotheses and by gathering > information have formulated a theory about the Payne families. Ultimately > you hope to gather enough information to prove your theory or discount it. > This is the scientific method which applies to any kind of research, > whether it is chemistry, physics, history or genealogy. People who > are critical of your research remind one of the folks who said > Columbus was going to sail off the edge of the earth into space > because the earth "is flat". > > I do hope you will stick with us and don't give up the ship. You > have made progress and I believe the majority of us are interested > in your findings and wish you luck in your quest. Whether you are right, > or wrong, in your theory, you will have gained a greater understanding > of history and the Payne family, and will be a better person from your > experience. > > The objective of research is to gain knowledge, and those who reject > this objective are really not interested in genealogy. Unfortunately, > some are only interested in "a real long list of names" and care less > about the people and their contributions to society, family, etc. > > Wishing you the best, and whether you stay or go, I'll keep in touch, > > Bill McMahon > List Manager: BROWDER & McMAHON Lists. McMAHON List Welcomes > ALL Spelling Variants of McMAHON,McMAHAN,McMAHEN,MAHON,MAHAN > Your Support Keeps RootsWeb FREE TO All!! > http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: throwing in the proverbial towel > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:18:33 -0400 > From: Bill Hobbs <hobbs@usit.net> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Patrick, > > Just think of the PAYNE list as a warm-up round for VAroots. On the > VAroots list one can get flamed for the mere suggestion that the > lifestyles of our ancestors have anything at all to do with genealogy. > I have been skewered in private posts from that list more than once. > This is why your computer company has provided you with a delete key :-) > > If you do not find deleting to be satisfactory, there are available to > you some time-honored Anglo-Saxon words and phrases that can be sent via > return Email. > > Above all, remember that anyone who ever did anything worthwhile had > detractors. The results of your research seem to be hitting a nerve > with many people. Some react positively, some negatively. Either > reaction is far better than being ignored! > > Bill Hobbs > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: throwing in the towel > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 20:30:31 -0500 > From: "Martha W. Acker" <mwacker@bellsouth.net> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Patrick, > Why don't you start a Payne-Mariner-L at roots web so that those must be > so troubled do not have to be bothered by your research, and those of us > who wish to can subscribe and regularly receive and send postings? I > think it is interesting that your detractors do not make their remarks > to the list, so the group can read and assess them. > Martha > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: throwing in the towel > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:53:34 -0700 > From: "Megan Payne" <megan@demoroom.com> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Patrick, > > Please don't stop posting. Although I would _never_ advocate a flame war, if > someone says something particularly bothersome, you could do what my friends > and I do: we take the most absurd postition possible. For example: one of my > friends detests abortion debates, so he always says, "It is a tragedy when > any fetus is carried to term." That usually stops people cold in their > tracks. Besides, it is funny. -I know, I know... I have a sick sense of > humor. :) > > Megan > > >Patrick, > >Why don't you start a Payne-Mariner-L at roots web so that those must be > >so troubled do not have to be bothered by your research, and those of us > >who wish to can subscribe and regularly receive and send postings? I > >think it is interesting that your detractors do not make their remarks > >to the list, so the group can read and assess them. > >Martha > > > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: Patrick Payne's Towel > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 22:14:39 -0500 > From: "Raymond L. Gann" <gannrl@fullnet.net> > To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com > > Dear Patrick: > > Include me as one of your fans. My impression o

Hello, I am searching for J.G. Payne also known as James G. Payne had 8 children in Bell Co. TX Born around 1824 in Tenn. or Missouri. Died in 1897 of MArch in Bell County Texas. His wife's name Mary M, of LA. found them in the 1880 census but last name spelled wrong, (PANE) Anyone out there, can you help me. I am stuck. Thank you Sherry Davis-Ellis

I just recently joined the list and didn't even know who Patrick was, that he HAD done so much research, had a website, discussion group, etc. I know that Patrick's core driver is to research for himself and his family. But one of the by-products of his research is the information and guidance it provides to other researchers. And this is a special gift for new researchers such as myself. It sounds like his focus is way back before my trace. I've been stuck with in one spot, my ggrandfather John Thomas Payne who died around 1918 in Savannah, Ga. I've been stuck there for over 20 years, when I first began searching. I keep praying for a miracle, and most likely it will be someone like Patrick who will someday assist me in getting past John Thomas. Can you imagine what that will mean to me and my family? But apparently my chances will be reduced because Patrick has had a few insignificant dweebs, whom would be dangerous if they HAD brains, criticize his research? That makes me pretty angry, folx. Einstien could not have made the awesome advances he is credited with, without the lifetimes of research already performed by his predecessors. And please note, Einstien had his critics; those that would belittle and heckle his theorems in order to appease their own egos. Patrick's research is vital, perfect or not - have any of us even gotten close to the vicinity of perfection? Again, I've not seem your work yet. For all I know, it might just be perfect, but that's NOT the point. Patrick, quitting is your choice. And you might have good reason for it; burnout, less time, loss of interest, - this happens and is understandable. Just please don't quit for the wrong reasons. The delete button is sooo very easy to click. Best regards, Frank L. Healy ggrandson of my bottleneck -John Thomas Payne (d. 1918) PS> Would someone let me know if Patrick's site is still up and how to access it? I'm praying it's not too late. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Patrick, >From one who appreciates your work and enjoys your postings, I respect your decision. Please give those of us that want to follow your Payne research a contact site. Vivien I enjoy connecting with any and all descendants of Isaiah Payne (1735 -1818) Isaiah Payne-Isaac Payne-Isaac Payne- James Payne - Leander Wilson Payne - James Arthur Payne - James Allen Payne - James Alan Payne.

Hi All, I just need to say that I have known Patrick from the very beginning...he is an unbelievable researcher, and probably probes far more deeply than most of us are capable of. I do not resent this...am fascinated by his theories, and think he is on the right track regarding connecting up the many different Paynes/Paines who came to our shores. When he first began his research I have never encountered someone so enthusiastic, and I encouraged him greatly. We corresponded at length, and I was, and am impressed with his intellectual capabilities. It is sad that people cannot let others make their contributions, and those who are not interested, or do not understand those contributions, can "do their own thing". I DO wish you would re-consider Patrick, but I can understand your feelings. Those of us who know where to find you, will continue to do so, and please know i admire and respect you and your work. Cissie Payne

Dear List, I am looking for the parents of Wilson Rufus Payne. Wilson was born on September 4, 1863...possibly in Union County, Georgia. He married Weltha Ann Cowart in Tattnall County, Georgia on May 15, 1881. Wilson's death certificate indicates that his father was Thomas Payne from Union County, Georgia. But...I cannot seem to link Wilson to the Paynes of Union County. Any ideas? (By the way, one of our family traditions states that Wilson came from Texas. I can't prove or disprove it.) Joey

Dear Mr. Nelson, Thank you for the words of support. I have to say though that the aftermath of my departure seems worse than what precipitated it. Would you please do me a favor by letting the list know that I'm not going far and I'm not quitting this research! I just chose to leave that particular list. I'm still on my lists which anyone is welcome to subscribe to. They can be found on my page. But, ask them to PLEASE take their comments off-line! It's only making things worse for everyone and stirring up more emotions. I just wanted to make a small statement! I should have known PAYNE's are incapable of that... They are welcome to contact me directly or subscribe to one of the other lists I mentioned. If you wouldn't mind doing that for me, I'm sure everyone would be appreciative! I know I would :-} Thanks again! Patrick

Patrick, I never post, but only read. But I have to agree with Bill Hobbs, the key here is the delete button. If you do quit, please let me know so I can follow, I for one enjoy reading your information and have learned a lots. Thanks Ira

Nil illigetimi carborundum est, sort of. My Latin is awfully rusty. One of the words (guess which) means bastards, in the genealogical sense, and another is the root for carbide, of saw blade fame. When people insult me, I take solace in the fact I'm probably smarter than they are and they just don't get the finer points of my discourse. You can too.

Hang in there, Patrick. These people don't even need to delete your messages if they don't want to, They can just filter them out at the download. Let them quit, you stay.

Don't let 'em win, Pat! Hang in there! C.B.

I was just talking to my Payne-Hubby last nite & today about how Wonderful it is that there is someone like Patrick,(who I JUST found out is our Cousin (-:) on this Payne-List & how devoted he is to pure research & has Historian skills to help aid all of us Genealogists , hobby & professional, and how much I have enjoyed his Historical veiws, as Family Genealogy is more then just collecting Family names & numbers, its about REAL people who we are related to!!! People that had Lives & Lived History....and Someday we will be the people in one of our future relatives genealogy researches and I hope that person also adds personality to our records by recording what we did & who we were!!!! I am fascinated with what Patrick is researching....here are records of real people who came here, a very strange land (sometimes I think it still is (-: ), leaving behind everything familiar to them.....and this is History from so very long ago ...And to have it brought out in the open for public veiwing by Patrick is such a Gift....Thank-You Patrick for this Gift & PLEASE ignor the people who say hurtful things.....PLEASE continue with your research, you have put your Heart into, and I am sorry to say, that has left you open to injury.....Keep on with the Search, It is worth it!!! Thanks again Patrick...From The Whole PaynePack

Dear Patrick: Include me as one of your fans. My impression of those who use this medium to write rude remarks rank right up there with "Road Rage". The folks who do it are generally nice people up close and in your presence but given the cloak of the computer keyboard or control of an automobile they become another person altogether. Their problem is not you or your research, it is their world is so small and drab they scream out now and again for attention. The odds are there is not a serious researcher among them. Keep at your work and continue your unselfish sharing with the rest of us. While your research is not necessarily useful to me, I never-the-less defend your right to do it the way you want and share it with those who may be helped by it. I would also venture to guess that these same folks have not contributed a dime toward making rootswebb the tremendous success that it is. When you throw in the towel they win!

Patrick, Please don't stop posting. Although I would _never_ advocate a flame war, if someone says something particularly bothersome, you could do what my friends and I do: we take the most absurd postition possible. For example: one of my friends detests abortion debates, so he always says, "It is a tragedy when any fetus is carried to term." That usually stops people cold in their tracks. Besides, it is funny. -I know, I know... I have a sick sense of humor. :) Megan >Patrick, >Why don't you start a Payne-Mariner-L at roots web so that those must be >so troubled do not have to be bothered by your research, and those of us >who wish to can subscribe and regularly receive and send postings? I >think it is interesting that your detractors do not make their remarks >to the list, so the group can read and assess them. >Martha >

Patrick, Why don't you start a Payne-Mariner-L at roots web so that those must be so troubled do not have to be bothered by your research, and those of us who wish to can subscribe and regularly receive and send postings? I think it is interesting that your detractors do not make their remarks to the list, so the group can read and assess them. Martha

Patrick, Just think of the PAYNE list as a warm-up round for VAroots. On the VAroots list one can get flamed for the mere suggestion that the lifestyles of our ancestors have anything at all to do with genealogy. I have been skewered in private posts from that list more than once. This is why your computer company has provided you with a delete key :-) If you do not find deleting to be satisfactory, there are available to you some time-honored Anglo-Saxon words and phrases that can be sent via return Email. Above all, remember that anyone who ever did anything worthwhile had detractors. The results of your research seem to be hitting a nerve with many people. Some react positively, some negatively. Either reaction is far better than being ignored! Bill Hobbs

Hi all, I have also had difficulty in the past opening and/or decoding files (why is it always the files you want so much ?). I purchased a few months ago a helpful program by DataViz called Attachment Opener. I received another file tonight (from a trusted source) that would not open. I started Attachment opener and attempted to open the file from there. The program analyzed the file, told me the problem (incorrect file extension), asked me if I wanted it corrected (yes) and I was then able to open the open the document. I just found the company on the web at http://www.dataviz.com if anyone wants to look at it. They list Attachment Opener at $39.99 but say there is a $20 rebate on purchases made through retailers (not direct purchases from Dataviz) for a limited time. Best to all, Karen S.