I am looking for information on siblings and ancestors of Mahala Payne. She was born April 1, 1832 (location unknown) and died April 17, 1891 in Preble County, Ohio. Her husband was William Mansfield, Jr. Her parents were George Payne and Ann Gray, and that is ALL I know about her parents. I have ample information about her children, but none regarding her parents or siblings. Thanks, John Maylone Tollhouse, CA

Patrick, Did you receive and get a chance to read my email that I sent to your personal email address about my father, Russell Edward Payne, and the anonymouse donation for the DNA project? Lori Craiger _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com

Patrick, Have you had a chance to read my email that I sent to your personal email about my father, Russell Edward Payne, and the anonymous donation for the DNA project? Lori Craiger _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

Unsubscribe ----- Original Message ----- From: <PAYNE-D-request@rootsweb.com> To: <PAYNE-D@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 9:01 PM Subject: PAYNE-D Digest V02 #8

http://searches2.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl type in" Payne"

I am looking for help on the Paine/Payne families in and around the Rochester/Penfield area of NY. I have come to a stumbing block with a Roswell Paine/Payne born somewhere in NY about 1791. He married a Sibel and had some of their first children in Penfield before moving on to PA and then MI. I have a lot of information on the desendants of one of his sons Samuel but am at a stand still going back. David Paine

I didn't pay close attention to the DNA Testing overview that was circulating on this board over the last little while. Would the participants please email me? I have a question for an expert....or from one of you good people who can direct me to the archives of those exchanges. Thanks, Kathie Donahue GENEALOGY WITHOUT PROOF IS MYTHOLOGY.

Hello everyone, Over the last week or so, I have been trying to think of some way to encourage descendants of William Paine of Boston and Ipswich, Mass. and of Daniel Payne of Northampton County, Virginia, to participate in our DNA project. It's going to be a plain shame not to include them because they, of all the branches, have the most evidence that a relationship existed between them. Since I haven't addressed this evidence directly in my prior posts, I've tried to piece it together in a last ditch effort to contact those descendants. I realize that posting to a mailing list isn't the ideal approach to contact specific people, but it's all that I have available to me without going through years of e-mails looking for a descendant. I might be able to find one of William's descendants that way, but I don't think I've ever corresponded with a descendant of Daniel in the past. There appear to be many though. The question is- are any of them on the list? I'll have to hope some are, or rely on others who might know of some who can offer their assistance. With that hope in mind, I sending this out. If you are, or you know, descendants of William Payne and Hannah (or Anna) North, of Boston and Ipswich, Massachusetts, or of Daniel Payne and Hannah Scarburgh of Northampton County, Virginia, please let me know or do what you can to ensure that they know how valuable they would be to our project. Test kits have begun to arrive (I received mine on Saturday) and time is now running short. With the addition of two more participants just today, we are now up to 30!!! Regards, Patrick I have been having some correspondence recently with researchers interested in Daniel Payne (1660-1709) of Northampton County, Va., who married Hannah Scarburgh (1675-1718). Because of the facts surrounding what is known about William Paine of the Ipswich, Suffolk, Mass., and his dealings in Northampton County, Va. with Col. Edmund Scarburgh, we are in agreement that locating male descendant's of William Paine of Boston and Ipswich, Mass. and of Daniel Payne and Hannah Scarburgh of Northampton County, Va., would be a very significant addition to our DNA project. I am hopeful that after reading the following, others will agree with this assessment and between us all, we can locate potential participants. We currently do not have representatives from either family. Although the following is not as readable as I'd like [it's tough to put all of this together in an e-mail!], it will hopefully find us some new participants from the families mentioned. In earlier posts to the list, I had included records from Northampton County Deeds and Wills and the doctoral thesis of Alison Games, entitled "Migration and the Origins of the English Atlantic World," showing conclusively that William Paine of Ipswich & Boston, Mass. had not only visited Virginia's Eastern Shore (at William Claiborne's Kicoughtan), but that he had business dealings there with Col. Edmund Scarburgh. William later found it necessary to dispatch two friends, Capt. William Strangridge and Col. William Kendall to collect on a debt owed to him by Scarburgh. The fact that William Paine counted among his "loving friends," Col. Kendall, is important to remember as well due to his daughters marriage with Hancock Lee, the brother of Richard Lee II whom William Payne calls a "loving friend" in his will and directed his daughter to go the Lees home on his death. This William was a son of John Payne, the subject of The Paynes of Virginia. Details of these facts can be readily found in the sources I've cited here. William Paine of Boston is known to have had a son by the name of Daniel, and although this son could not have been the husband of Hannah Scarburgh of Northampton County, it at least establishes that the name Daniel appears in the line of the Ipswich branch of the Paine family. Now the Daniel of Northampton County married Hannah Scarburgh, a daughter of Matthew Scarburgh of Maryland by his wife Hannah Wise. Hannah Wise had been a niece of William Paine of Boston's business associate, Col. Edmund Scarburgh. Whitelaw, in "Virginia's Eastern Shore" indicates that Matthew Scarburgh was a likely kinsman of Col. Edmund Scarburgh. In any case, we do know that Matthews wife was a niece of Col. Edmund Scarburgh, so the important thing is that whether Matthew was related by blood to Edmund Scarburgh or not, he had been by marriage. We can also determine from the various deeds and other records that the relationship between Edmund Scarburgh, his niece, and Matthew Scarburgh, had been a close one. The following records indicate that Daniel Paynes widow Hannah married 2ndly William Foster, and that she died after 1725: "July 1725. Hannah Foster asks for an allowance from the estate of William Foster [adm. 8 June 1725 OB 18:190] Her account shows Mr. Pole, Clerk's fee 150 lbs. of tobacco; 3 appraisers one day each 10.11.3; trouble in burying her husband 1.0.0; trouble in getting the estate-gathering it and paying it away- 1.0.0; coffin- 0.8.4; digging grave- 0.1.8; 1 bottle of rum to make the appraisers drink- 0.2.6. Total 4.2.2. allowed." With the widow Foster's petition is filed one by Thomas Griffith. He states that the Court ordered that the appraisers of William Foster's estate set apart John Paine's estate. Such has not been done since it was in corn and tobacco. The petitioner asks that the appraised value be awarded for the said Paine. Allowed." There is also a note attached- "see XIX:791 will of Daniel Paine. The John Payne mentioned was a son of Daniel and Hannah. Griffith had married Esther Payne, John's sister. William Foster was the prior husband of Margaret, a daughter of Col. Scarburghs intimate friend, John Neale, who had leased and then sold his ship COCKATRICE to William Claiborne in 1632. The ship was then refitted by a William Paine ["Virginia Venturer." Nathaniel Claiborne Hale]. In 1668 William Foster and his wife Margaret "sole daughter and heyre of John Neale" released any rights they might have (in land designated as N5 by Whitelaw) to Col. Kendall "for the use of John Eyre, Thomas and Daniel Eyre." Daniel Paynes sister-in-law, Comfort, had married Henry Eyre. We can see, even at this point, that there had been a lot of contact between the family of Daniel Payne of Northampton County, Virginia, to men closely associated with William Paine of Boston- including his "loving friend" Col. William Kendall, whom he had collect a debt on his behalf in Virginia from Col. Scarburgh. The John Paine mentioned in the petition of Thomas Griffith was John (1695-1744), who married Elizabeth Upshur. John was the brother of Esther Payne who had married Thomas Griffith. Daniel's wife Hannah Scarburgh, was a daughter of Matthew Scarburgh by his wife Hannah Wise, a daughter of Col. John Wise by Hannah Scarburgh, a sister of Col. Edmund Scarburgh [Whitelaw, "Virginia's Eastern Shore"]. Col. Wise was from Clifton, near Plymouth, England. The doctoral thesis of Alison Games, "Migration and the Origins of the English Atlantic World," published by Harvard University Press in 1999, gives the following details regarding Col. John Wise in her endnote on p. 242: "Petition to the Admiralty and Navy, 1634, printed in Jennings Cropper Wise, Col. John Wise of England and Virginia (1617-1695) (Richmond, Va.; the Bell Books and Stationery Co., 1918), pp. 29-30, John Wise and [his cousin] William Hudson were listed twice in 1635; first, as passengers on the BONAVENTURE on January 2; second, as passengers on the TRANSPORT on July 4. My suspicion is that they actually traveled on the TRANSPORT in July. The BONAVENTURE carried passengers bound for Maryland, and Wise and Hudson certainly ended up in Virginia. It is possible, albeit unlikely, that the pair actually made a round-trip crossing between January and July." John Camden Hotten provides details on the voyage of the TRANSPORT in "Hottens Lists" where we find it recorded that on July 4, 1635, Edward WALKER, Master, the TRANSPORT carried the following passengers of interest: William Hudson, aged 20. Thomas Payne, aged 23. John Wise, aged 18. The ages of these men in 1635 would place their births as follows: William Hudson 1615; Thomas Payne 1612; John Wise 1617. It has been suggested by WALKER researchers that Capt. Edward Walker had been the father of Richard, William, Morris, John and Grace Walker. Some of these children may be those found on the Eastern Shore of Virginia, while John Walker may have been the Col. John Walker, whose daughter had married John Payne, Jr. (d. 1669) of Westmoreland County. If there is anything at all to be considered in the link between Col. William Kendall and the Lees, who were neighbors and friends of the family of John Payne, then there may be something to this possible Walker link as well. There can be little doubt that Col. Walker had been involved with the same families of which I now write about. As an example, here are a couple of entries from "Virginia Venturer": p. 224: "Captain Evelin [partner in William Claiborne and Maurice Thompsons joint stock company] had already assigned the joint stock property including the plantation, boats, windmills, goods, thirty-six servants and some thirty-five thousand pipestaves to John Lewger, the Secretary of Maryland, and to John Walker, his personally appointed overseer on the island [Kent], although it was claimed that he had previously "disposed sold and made away" with goods to his possible personal profit of two thousand pounds sterling. Now, according to Thomas Sturman, whose son John kept the books at the time, Evelin took nine men servants and their families, four of whom were carpenters, to assist in the raising of a plantation called Piney Point at Evelinton Manor nearby St. Mary's were he said he intended to live." Thomas Sturman had been the father (and John the sister) of Elizabeth Sturman, wife of Col. William Hardwick, who was mother of William Hardwick, Jr. of Kent Island and Westmoreland County, who married Frances Gerard, a sister of Jane Gerard who married William Eltonhead. They had lived in Northampton County, Virginia, prior to moving to St. Mary's, Maryland. The Eltonheads owned a slave by the name of Francis Payne, and "Capt. Edmund Scarburgh" had been "security for the personal appearance of Mr. William Eltonhead of Maryland to answer his [Maj. Obedience Robins] suit upon an account of debt for the sum of nine hundred and nine pounds of tobacco with four years interest..." [Northampton County, Virginia, Orders, Deeds & Wills, 1651-1654, Book IV, p. 60]. William Hardwick and John Sturman had been "chief among the leaders in the rebellion" at St. Mary's under Capt. Richard Ingle ["Virginia Venturer," p. 261]. Another sister of Elizabeth and John Sturman, Ann, had married in 1636, Capt. Thomas Youell, who were the parents of Thomas and Richard Youell. Thomas had married Anne, a sister of Richard Lee [the "loving friend of William Payne mentioned above], Hancock Lee, who had married a daughter of William Paine of Boston's "loving friend" Col. William Kendall, and of John Lee who had brought William Payne to Dorchester County, Maryland in 1673. Anne Lee married 2ndly, James Payne, who has not been placed into a Payne family to my knowledge. [The Paynes of Virginia]. Richard Youell married before 1687, Elizabeth Hawkins, the widow of Col Humphrey Pope, whose daughter Elizabeth had married William Payne, friend of Richard Lee. Humphrey Popes children became wards of William Payne [The Paynes of Virginia]. p. 304-6: "Col. Claiborne, being sent for, an order was then drawn up empowering Col. John Carter and Mr. Warham Horsemanden, the latter a Cavalier refugee, to receive the records and give the former Secretary of State a receipt for them. Upon the completion of these formalities, an order was then put on the books naming Samuel Matthews again as Governor and Captain General of Virginia and William Claiborne as Secretary of State. Only a few changes were made in the new Council which now included Richard Bennett, Col. John West, Col. Thomas Pettus, Col. Edward Hill, Col. Obedience Robins, Col. Thomas Dew, Capt. Henry Perry, Col. William Bernard, Lt. Col. John WALKER, Col. George Reade, Col. Abraham Wood, Col. John Carter, Mr. Warham Horsemanden and Lt. Col. Ellyotte." Col. Walker had married the widow of Capt. Henry Fleete, a sometime trading partner of Claibornes. Fleete had owned land in both Maryland and Virginia. 1647-8, "Charles Maynard aged 25 or thereabouts att the request of Wm. Lewis sayth uppon his oath That being att Mr. Gerrards howse, Capt. Hen. ffleate & Mr. Payne was there & bought hogs of Mr. Gerrard, & amongst other hogs the sd. Mr. Gerrard sold to the prytes abousd 2 hoggs, Vis one Boare, & one sow, of a yeare old & better, wch the sd. Mr. Ger. told this Dept. That they were Mr. Lewis hoggs, & further added tht hee would kill & sell them, the better to satisfy a debt, wch the sd Mr. Lewis owed to the sd Mr. Gerrard. And this Dept. further sayth tht to the best of his remembrance all the great work of a howse ready framed, or fitted, was fettchd away by appointment of the sd Mr. Gerrard, from of Mr. Lewis land, & applyed to the owne proper use of the sd. Mr. Gerrard. Likewise this Dept. sayth tht there was a chest of the sd. Mr. Lewis in Mr. Gerrards Howse, wch this Dept. demanded of the sd Mr. Ger. wherevppon the sd. Mr. Ger. replyed tht he could not spare it for he intended to fill it wth Tob. & to send it for England. Likewise the Dept. demanded of the sd. Mr. Gerrards 3 hoes & a little Tomahawke & 1 cowle & a powdering Tub. wch did belong to Mr. Lewis. But the foresd Mr. Gerrard denyed to deliur them to this Dept. affirming tht they were none his, to witt the sd. Mr. Lewis. Likewise this Dept. sayth tht the sd. Mr. Gerrard had the leafe of a table & of the sd. Mr. Lewis, 1 Runlett & 2 Payles & further hee knoweth nott. Jurat Teste me Charles Maynard, Willm Bretton, Clk. [Archives of Maryland, Court and Testamentary Business, 1647-8, 359]. 6 Oct. 1656, patent to Lt. Col. Henry Fleet, 450 acres on the South side of Pepeticke Creek, regranted to John Barrow. John Barrow and his wife Mary sold it to John PAYNE, Carpenter, of Rappahannock County in 1661. [Rappahannock County Records, p. 256]. I don't think there can be much doubt that the "Mr. Payne" with Fleet at "Mr. Gerrards" house had been John Payne, the subject of the Paynes of Virginia. Granted, it could have been another Payne, but John Payne was almost always referred to in records as "Mr. Payne" or "Mr. John Payne." Moreover, his son married one of Sarah Fleete Walkers stepdaughters. Another daughter of Sarah Fleete Walker, Sarah, married into the Conway family, as did Elizabeth Payne, daughter of John Payne by Anne Walker. Elizabeth married Henry Thacker, a son of Eltonhead Conway. [Paynes of Virginia]. So we now have some other connections to add. We also can't forget that Capt. Fleete had been making visits to New England in his ship WARWICK, owned by GRIFFITH & Co. This ship had been sent by Griffith & Co. in March 1630 under Captain Walter Neale to discover the Great Lake in New England and so to intercept the trade of beaver- a project that William Paine of Boston had also been involved with [Bernard Bailyn, "New England Merchants]. After Captain Neale returned to England the WARWICK was sent to Virginia with Henry Fleete as factor or trading agent and John Dunton as captain. �On 23 May 1633 Walter Neale delivered to Thomas Cammock possession of the land that had been patented to him by the Council for New England on 1 November 1631� [YLR 2:85; see also YLR 1:3:1]. Thomas Cammock was the grandfather of Warwick Cammock whom Robert Payne (alias Davies- who married Elizabeth Lawson) named as a supervisor in his will of 1675 [Paynes of Virginia; Virginia County Records, vol. VI, Crozier]. To add some of these connections up to this point: we have William Payne, son of John, being a close friend of Richard Lee, whose brother Hancock had married a daughter of William Paine of Boston's friend, Col. William Kendall; We have William Eltonhead involved with Edmund Scarburgh, who owed a debt to William Paine of Boston, and his wife's family, the Gerrards, were known to the family of John Payne of Virginia. They had even owned a slave by the name of Francis Payne; We have the Paynes of Virginia marrying into the Conway/Eltonhead family as did the Fleete/Walker family; We have the Paynes of Virginia associated with William Claiborne through the Walkers, Fleetes, and other families, while in 1632 a William Payne had been fitting out ships for Claiborne at Kent Island. One of these ships, the COCKATRICE, had been purchased from John Neale, an intimate friend of Col. Edmund Scarburgh; William Paine of Boston is known to have paid a visit to Claibornes plantation at Kicoughtan and he had conducted business there with at least one man, Col. Edmund Scarburgh; We have Daniel Payne marrying Hannah Scarburgh, a kinswoman of Col. Edmund Scarburgh who owed the debt to William Paine of Boston; We have a John Payne, Captain, bringing Adam Thoroughgood to Virginia on the JOHN & DOROTHY, and Thoroughgoods daughter Elizabeth married John Michael, whose family had been closely associated with the Scarburghs. Sarah Offley Thoroughgood married 2ndly Capt. John Gookin. William Payne appears in a land patent issued to Capt. Gookins brother, Capt. Daniel Gookin, dated 4 Nov. 1642 [Cavaliers and Pioneers, vol. I, p. 138-9]. I'm sure I've left out several other connections, but I believe this is more than sufficient to make my point for now. To get back to John Wise, whose wife had been a sister of Col. Scarburgh: In 1662, Whitelaw records on p. 947, under the entry for land designated A75, that this tract had been patented to "William Waters for 1,200 acres." The next year, William Waters and his wife Dorothy sold the north half to John Wise, and two years after that, the other half. In the story of A73, Whitelaw reports that John, Sarah and Margaret Michael had received a patent for 1,000 acres in "two separate 500-acres parts." Sarah Michael had married Capt. Argoll Yardley and in 1673, they sold their 500 acre share to John Wise, to complete his holdings to make up the A75 tract. These Michaels were the children of John Michael, Sr. (d. 1679) and Elizabeth, daughter of Adam Thoroughgood and Sarah Offley. Adam Thoroughgood had come to Virginia aboard the JOHN & DOROTHY, John Payne, Captain. John Michael and Elizabeth Thoroughgood had issue: 1. Adam Michael, who married Sarah Littleton, a daughter of Col. Southey Littleton, and sister of Esther, who married Col. William Whittington, of Accomack County, Va. and Somerset County, Maryland, whose last wife had been Elizabeth Spinke, daughter of Thomas Spinke and Jane Payne of St. Mary's County, Maryland. Jane was most likely a daughter of Thomas Payne by Tecla Thompson, although Linda Reno, who has usually been found to be a very reliable St. Mary's researcher, maintains that Jane was a daughter of Thomas Payne and Jane Smallpiece of St. Mary's. I have not been able to reach her for her sources for this however. Whittingtons other wives and records left by him associate him with the family of Col. Edmund Scarburgh. Sarah Littletons uncle, Edward Littleton (d. 1663) married 1stly Sarah Douglas, sister of Elizabeth, who was the wife of John Willett and mother of Capt. William Willett; and 2ndly, Frances Robins, a daughter of Obedience Robins by Grace O'Neil, the former wife of Edward Waters, whose family will be covered below. Sarah's father, Southey, and her uncle Edward, were the nephews of Mary Littleton, who, as mentioned above, is thought to have been the wife of Col. Edmund Scarburgh. Adams wife Sarah Littleton married 2ndly, John Custis III (1655-1714), who had been the former husband of Margaret Michael named above and below. 2.John Michael, married Ann Tilney, and they were the parents of Elizabeth Michael, who married Capt. Daniel "of St. Thomas" Jenifer (b. 1672), of Accomack County, Va., and Calvert and St. Mary's, Maryland. Jenifers parents were Daniel Jenifer and "Ann Toft," the widow of Henry Toft of Worcester. Ann Toft (maiden name unknown), was the mother of Attalanta Toft, who was the 3rd wife of Col. William Whittington; and of Arcadia Toft, who was the mother of Samuel Welburne who married Mason Kendall, a granddaughter of Col. William Kendall. Ann Toft had also been very intimate with Col. Edmund Scarburgh- to such a degree that it has been suggested they were man and wife. Whitelaw includes a lot of detailed information on this. 3. Margaret Michael, married John Custis III as outlined above. 4. Sarah Michael, married Capt. Argoll Yeardley, brother of Frances who married Adam Thoroughgood. She m2. James Watt and m3. Thomas Maddox. 5. Symon Michael. As I included in early posts, Elizabeth Thoroughgoods mother, Sarah Offley, married as her 2nd husband, Capt. John Gookin, whose parents had fled from Virginia for New England after suffering religious persecution. His niece, Elizabeth Gookin, married the Rev. John Elliott and became the stepmother of John Elliott, husband of Sarah Willett, whose brother, James Willett (b. 1649), had married Elizabeth, a daugther of Peter Hunt, Jr. (d. 1676), and Rebecca Paine (1656-1699), of Rehoboth, Mass. Rebecca was a daughter of Stephen Paine and Anne Chickering. A sister of Sarah Willett, Mary Willett, married Samuel Hooker, a son of the Rev. Thomas Hooker. Since I have previously covered all of this and these connections to the Paynes of Massachusetts, I won't do so again here. William Waters (named in the 1662 record of John Wise above) died in 1687 in Somerset County, Maryland. His wife had been Dorothy Marriott. Obedience Robins, Sr., was the stepfather of William Waters, and therefore he was the stepbrother of Frances Robins, wife of Edward Littleton (d. 1663) of Accomack, who was a nephew of Mary Littleton, wife of Col. Edmund Scarburgh. Now there is some argument to this as Whitelaw believes that Mary Littleton had actually been a sister of Capt. Francis Pott, who had married Susannah Baker, former wife of Thomas Eyre and relict of Col. William Kendall. Whatever the case might have been here, it all comes back to the Scarburgh family anyway whether she was a Littleton or a Pott. I believe there is a lot of evidence for her being a Littleton, however, since they had a son by the name of Littleton Scarburgh. I would like to suggest that Susannah Bakers husband, Thomas Eyre, might have possibly been the son of that name to Dr. Simon Eyre and Dorothy Paine, as listed on the passenger list of the INCREASE. Dorothy Paine was a sister of William Paine of Ipswich and Boston, and this would account nicely for William Paines contact with the Scarburghs and to Col. William Kendall. William Waters was a son of Edward Waters and Grace O'Neil (could the name have been later shortened to Neale?). Edward Waters had been a passenger on the SEAVENTURE in 1609 with Henry PAINE [Jean Kennedy, "Isle of Devils"]. Now consider the following record extract from the PRO C11/2281/19: "Jane Marriott, widow of George Marriott, Richard Marriott, her son, Samuel and Susanna Mills, daughter of George Marriott, Zorobabel Preeson and Margaret Preeson, only daughter of William Waters, deceased, who was one of the three sons left in Virginia by Dorothy Waters, sister of William Marriott, half brother to George Marriott, and her son and heir and Elizabeth Waters, widow of Richard Waters, planter of Maryland was another son of Dorothy Waters, William Waters, eldest son of Richard Waters and Francis Hutchins and Elizabeth, his wife, who is one of the daughters of Richard Waters, four other children of Richard Waters, all infants and the five children of John Waters, now deceased, the third son of Dorothy Waters, who was left in Virginia c. Nathaniel Paine, Henry Boult, Gerrard Vanderneden, Charles Eaton, William Waters, William and Elizabeth Copper. Case concerns claims to the land of William Marriott in Middlesex and Northamptonshire by the complainants. Part of the family lived in Virginia and Maryland. Outline of the case and information relating to Virginia:- 8p Bill of Complaint of Jane Marriott et al, September 7, 1722, Details of the will of William Marriott of 1717, by which he granted the profits of the rentals on various parts of his lands to several of the defendants, as well as to George Marriott and his heirs. Legacies granted to the other defendants. Residue of the estate to be divided into five equal parts, one fifth to George Marriott, his half brother, one fifth each to the three sons of Dorothy Waters left in Virginia, or to their children, and the remaining 1/5 to William Cooper, his executor and cousin. William Marriott died in 1719 and his will proved and executed. There was sufficient to pay all debts, expenses and legacies with a considerable surplus. But before the residue could be collected, George Marriott also died and ordered his share of the estate of William to be divided between his son, Richard Marriott and his daughter, Susanna Mills. William Waters, the eldest son of Dorothy Waters, who was the only full sister of William Marriott, also died before the residue was divided. In his will he ordered his estate in Briton to be divided between his children, Margaret Preeson and William Waters. The will was proved in the Virginia Courts and in England. Details of the will of Richard Waters, another son of Dorothy, who died in Maryland after William Marriotts will, was proved. Children of the third son, John Waters, who died before William Marriott, also stake their claim to the residue. All the complainants allege that William Cooper has combined with the other defendants and William Waters, the only son of William Waters to deprive them of the rightful inheritance. 4p Answers of Gerard and Benjamin Paine, two of the children of Nathaniel Paine. October 27, 1722. Details of their inheritance. Believe that William Cooper was always willing to account for the estate. 1p Authorisation to hear the answers of Nathaniel Paine, October 30, 1722, Latin. 1p Answer of Nathaniel Paine, November 7, 1722, Denies he has conspired to thwart the complaintants from their inheritance. 1p Answer of Henry Boult, December 3, 1722, Has received 300 pounds as his legacy from the will of William Marriott. 2p Answers of Gerard Vanderneden, September 12, 1722, Details of the legacies of the will of William Marriott. 1p Answers of Charles Eaton, December 13, 1722, Entered into an agreement with William Cooper to purchase the estate William Marriott had within Middlesex. 1p Answers of William Waters, son and sole executor of William Waters, late of Northampton County, Virginia, December 15, 1722. Agrees with provisions of the will of William Marriott as laid down in the bill of complaint. Dorothy Waters was the only full sister of William Marriott, who had no children or full brothers. Hence, at her death William Waters, her eldest son and a planter of Northampton County became heir to William Marriott. William Waters died in January 1720/1, leaving as his joint heirs the defendants and his sister Margaret Preeson. As executor he has proved his father's will in England and in Virginia and is therefore entitled to one fifth of the estate of William Marriott to divide between himself and his sister. Believe William Cooper has paid some money to the complainants. He himself has received 645 pounds. Admits to negotiating with Charles Eaton to sell the land in Middlesex. Notes at the end of the details of the money he had received. 4p Answers of William and Elizabeth Cooper, December 17, 1722, Agree with the details of thw wills of William Marriott and the others mentioned in the bill of complaint. William Cooper has paid the various legacies mentioned in the will of Marriott and his debts, and all the residue has been divided amongst the legatees, who are the complainants and himself. 6p Account of the estate of William Marriott. Bequests, debts and charges paid out of the estate of Marriott. Includes an item of 2 pounds for special letters of attorney sent to Major Waters in Virginia. From these records, it would appear that we now have to account for a Nathaniel Paine, and his sons Gerard and Benjamin, as possible descendants of Daniel Payne and Hannah Scarburgh. They certainly had to fit in somewhere to have been legatees of William Waters. All of this information (including the large amount that I've necessarily left out) is highly suggestive that there was a link here between the Daniel Payne of Northampton County, Va. with the Paine family of Ipswich and Boston- but it also involves other Payne families as well, such as that of John Payne of Westmoreland County, Va., the family of Thomas Payne of Maryland, and the family of Stephen Paine of Massachusetts. We may never know for sure unless we can compare DNA samples of their descendants. If descendants can be located and tested, a match in their Y-chromosome would scientifically prove if one or more of these families had been related and would also provide us details on when they shared a common relative. With this data, we could possibly determine who that individual had been. I'm taking some comfort in the fact that we do have other Massachusetts and Virginia participants that may provide these links anyway, but it would be especially beneficial to have known descendants from some of the families that we have the strongest indications of a relationship between, such as that of William Paine of Boston and Ipswich and Daniel Payne and Hannah Scarburgh of Northampton County, Va. Apart from posting appeals to the list and searching through past correspondence hoping to find descendants of these families, I have to rely on getting the word out to others with an interest in these families for support. Therefore, if anyone on the list can help in any way, myself and many others would be extremely grateful.

Looking for any descendants of this family. Anderson PAYNE b. Nov 1840 in OH, son of Joseph PAYNE and Rebecca CHICK. Married in Morgan Co., OH 10 Oct 1867 to Jemima CLINGENSMITH b. Feb 1850 in Moragn Co., OH daughter of Philip CLINGENSMITH and Pleasy WOODS. Anderson and Jemima had these children: Lou b. 1869 in OH, md. 4 Aug 1889 in Guthrie Co., IA to George W. RUMMELL Mabel b. 22 Dec 1880 in Guthrie Co., IA, md. 20 Jul 1905 in Guthrie Co., IA to Merton A. HILLYARD. Any information on this family would be appreciated!! Donna Merrill

Hello List, As most of you know by now we recently sent off a list of over 25 names of Paynes who have elected to participate in our DNA study. Recently, I was contacted by an anonymous benefactor, who could not participate, who has offered to sponsor someone for the project by covering the cost of the testing for them. This was a very kind and generous thing to do! For any MALE PAYNE descendant that would like to make use of this generous gift, please read the details below. Preferably, the participant would be a member of the PAYN family of Jersey. Alternately, a descendant of Ralph PAYNE (b. ca. 1620) of Middlesex County, Va., or his son, Thomas PAYNE (1664-1698), of Virginia. Thomas married 24 Oct. 1682, Mary Montagu (1665-1743). Ralph and his son had been neighbors of John Payne (d. 1689/90), the subject of The Paynes of Virginia, and they are thought to be descendants of the Jersey family. Should no participant meeting the criteria above be located, then the gift will be offered to anyone that would like to participate. However, we would most like to include a descendant from one of our early American PAYNE lines that is either not currently represented in our test, or a line that is not represented well. [the list can be viewed at http://home.earthlink.net/~ppayne1203/page5.html] For example, we currently have two representatives who are descendants of Thomas Paine and Mary Snow and one representative who descends from Stephen Paine and Rose Adcocke. The line from Kent, England, who also settled in Massachusetts, is not represented at all. Therefore, a descendant of that family would be preferable to the others. However, should no one come forward from that line, the next choice would be a descendant of Stephen Paine to bolster that representation which currently stands at one. Next choice would be a descendant of Thomas. This is an EXAMPLE of the process we will use in making our selection determination. ALL PAYNE LINES will be considered- the selection will be made from ALL lines, not just those used in the example. Therefore, I am asking that anyone who would like to participate (again, you must be a male and descend in an unbroken line from a PAYNE/PAINE/PAYN etc...) to respond, via e-mail to me, with the following TWO pieces of information: 1) Your Name and Mailing Address (if selected, you will be assigned an Identification number for privacy) 2) Your line of descent (this can be as simple as a name, dob/d, spouse, or a full pedigree if you wish) IMPORTANT: Since we have already sent our list to the lab and test kits have begun mailing, we must place a TIME LIMITATION on responses to this request. Submissions will be accepted UNTIL TUESDAY, 15 JANUARY, 2002, 1200 EST. A selection will be made from the responses received by that date/time ONLY. Should you know someone that would like to participate, but they do not have access to e-mail, I will accept submissions on their behalf from those who do- but you must be sure that they have agreed to participate! I wish that I could reveal the identity of this very special person, but they have requested to remain anonymous. Still, I'd like to publicly thank this anonymous person for being so generous! Regards, Patrick

Unsubscribe Open University season starting so I'm concentrating on this for a few months but I will be back. Kind Regards Phil Newson Caister On Sea, Norfolk, UK Top Tip:- "Back up your data regularly"

Are these messages only available in digest mode? ----- Original Message ----- From: <PAYNE-D-request@rootsweb.com> To: <PAYNE-D@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 10:22 PM Subject: PAYNE-D Digest V02 #2

Hello, Just to clear the waters a bit. While it is true that it "would take at least 6 years before any valuable information could be obtained from the database" being compiled for the Molecular Genealogy Project, it should be understood that this is referring to the larger project in general rather than the PAYNE testing we have underway. The lab has indicated that we should have our results in about 4 weeks once our samples have been received. Regards, Patrick

OK---I did find it! Mamie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Sessions" <bensessions@yahoo.com> To: <ARMSTRONG-GEN-ONLY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 6:42 PM Subject: [ARMSTRONG-GO] LDS DNA Project > > > > Here is a copy of my query to the LDS Molecular > > Genealogy Research Project which is using DNA > > gathered > > from participants world wide to determine family > > lineages. > > My query is followed by an answer from the > > project. > > Blessings,Ben STREET Sessions > > > ======================================================= > > > > Forwarded > > from: Ben Sessions bensessions@yahoo.com > ===================================================== > > > > ----------- start of forwarded message ----------- > > Hello, > > Is the DNA database complete now? If not,is > > there > > any projection when it will be? > > Will participants,of which I am one, be able to > > find out from which country their ancestors came? > > Blessings,Benjamin Street Sessions > > E-mail: bensessions@yahoo.com > > > > > ====================================================== > > From: "Ugo Perego" <ugo@smgf.org> > > To: "'bensessions@yahoo.com'" > > <bensessions@yahoo.com> > > Subject: RE: DNA > > Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 13:48:16 -0700 > > > > Benjamin, > > > > thanks for your email and for your participation in > > the Molecular > > Genealogy > > research. > > > > Currently, over 23,000 individuals have participated > > in the study. When > > you > > read and signed the consent form (a copy is > > available > > on the project > > website) we indicate that it would take at least 6 > > years before any > > valuable > > information could be obtained from the database we > > are > > compiling. The > > number > > of participants needed and the amount of genetic and > > genealogical > > analysis > > that needs to take place are the two determining > > factors on the length > > of > > the research. > > > > Yes, once the database will be large enough, anyone > > will be able to > > submit > > inquiries regarding their own genealogies, including > > the possible > > identification of the country of origin of blocked > > family lines. > > > > Regards, > > > > Ugo A. Perego, MS > > Events Coordinator > > Molecular Genealogy Research Project > > > > Web: http://molecular-genealogy.byu.edu; > > http://www.smgf.org > > Email #1: ugo@smgf.org > > Email #2: molecular-genealogy@byu.edu > > Fax: (801)461-9761 or (801)378-1576 > > Ph: (801)461-9775, (801)378-1245 or (801)404-0653 > > > > Mail: > > 2511 South West Temple > > SLC, UT 84115 > > USA > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > [mailto:molecular-genealogy@email.byu.edu] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 8:18 AM > > To: ugo@sdihq.com > > Subject: Fwd: DNA > > > ====================================================== > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > > ******************************************* > > Benjamin Street Sessions > > BenSessions@yahoo.com > > ******************************************* > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > > http://greetings.yahoo.com > > > > > ===== > ******************************************* > Benjamin Street Sessions > BenSessions@yahoo.com > ******************************************* > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > http://greetings.yahoo.com > > ______________________________

Maybe I shouldn't say anything, since I can't find where I filed an email from another list. The one person had emailed the people that was doing the testing, and they received an answer back, that it could take up to 6 years to get the results. So is this testing part of the National groups, or private testing? Mamie

A public Thank You Jim for your additional explanation of the difference between Male and Female DNA studies. F. R. Paine, participant in the Paine/Payne DNA study. 3 Jan 2002 List: For those of you with an interest in the use of Y-chromosome analysis and mitochondrial DNA analysis and its use in genealogy, there is a list for this topic. Send a subscribe subject line to GENEALOGY-DNA-D-request@rootsweb.com to receive the messages in digest form. This is an active list. ***** With regard to females participating in Y-chromosome studies, there are not any easy or relatively inexpensive ways for those females without living male relatives with the SURNAME of interest, such as PAYNE, to participate in such a study. As stated on the list, Y-chromosomes are passed from biological fathers to their sons, but not from biological fathers to their daughters. The study of Y-chromosomes is the study of a direct line of fathers and sons through many generations. In many western societies sons inherit the surname of their biological father. So the Y-chromosome analysis is similar to the study of male surnames, with some important exceptions. Sometimes children inherit a different surname than their biological father through social custom. Cases like this would include legal adoptions and children fathered by a male of a different surname (female infidelity or rape). ***** The analysis of mitochondrial DNA (abbreviated mtDNA)is almost the mirror image of Y-chromosome analysis. mtDNA is passed only from biological mothers to their children. Biological fathers do not pass mtDNA on to their children. So in many western societies in which male surnames are inherited by the offspring, a mtDNA study will usually involve individuals with different surnames in each generation. For example in my case, my surname is SIMS, and I have mtDNA from my mother who had a different maiden name than my surname. My mother got her mtDNA from her mother whose' maiden name was BILBREY. My grandmother with the BILBERY maiden name got her mtDNA from her mother whose maiden name was ARNOLD. My great grandmother ARNOLD got her mtDNA from her mother with maiden name of HILL, etc. backward in time. ***** It turns out that the mutation rates for the markers on the Y-chromosome are much higher than the mutation rates in mtDNA. This mutation rate for Y-chromosome markers such as those with names like DYS19 occur at about the right rate to make them useful for studying the history of Y-chromosomes on relatively short time scales, say 12 to 75 generations into the past. The more markers studied, the closer in time comparisons can be made. Because of low mutation rates for mtDNA, this type of analysis is more appropriate for determining what happened over a much longer time period, such as between 10,000 and 100,000 years ago, which is before recorded history began. ***** For persons with a European origin, more than half of all Europeans descendants will have a mtDNA haplotype called H in the scientific literature and this is the same as Byran Sykes' Helena Clan. The Helana sequence arose about 20,000 years ago. When I had my mtDNA typed, I was haplotype U or Ursula Clan. This clan arose 45,000 years ago and only about 11% of modern day Europeans have this haplotype. This is the oldest of the surviving Clans in Europe. mtDNA analysis can produce some surprising results, such as indicating a person had an ancestral mother of Native American origin, for example. Such information is usually not documented in family records, and is only ascertained by such analysis of mtDNA. World-wide, there are about 30 different mtDNA clans that have been identified, meaning that so far as we know today, descendants of only about 30 women who lived sometime in the far distant past still have living descendents in the world today. As we sequence more samples from such places as the far east, the list of clan mothers may increase. Jim Sims Fort Worth, TX jimsims@sbcglobal.net

3 Jan 2002 List: For those of you with an interest in the use of Y-chromosome analysis and mitochondrial DNA analysis and its use in genealogy, there is a list for this topic. Send a subscribe subject line to GENEALOGY-DNA-D-request@rootsweb.com to receive the messages in digest form. This is an active list. ***** With regard to females participating in Y-chromosome studies, there are not any easy or relatively inexpensive ways for those females without living male relatives with the SURNAME of interest, such as PAYNE, to participate in such a study. As stated on the list, Y-chromosomes are passed from biological fathers to their sons, but not from biological fathers to their daughters. The study of Y-chromosomes is the study of a direct line of fathers and sons through many generations. In many western societies sons inherit the surname of their biological father. So the Y-chromosome analysis is similar to the study of male surnames, with some important exceptions. Sometimes children inherit a different surname than their biological father through social custom. Cases like this would include legal adoptions and children fathered by a male of a different surname (female infidelity or rape). ***** The analysis of mitochondrial DNA (abbreviated mtDNA)is almost the mirror image of Y-chromosome analysis. mtDNA is passed only from biological mothers to their children. Biological fathers do not pass mtDNA on to their children. So in many western societies in which male surnames are inherited by the offspring, a mtDNA study will usually involve individuals with different surnames in each generation. For example in my case, my surname is SIMS, and I have mtDNA from my mother who had a different maiden name than my surname. My mother got her mtDNA from her mother whose' maiden name was BILBREY. My grandmother with the BILBERY maiden name got her mtDNA from her mother whose maiden name was ARNOLD. My great grandmother ARNOLD got her mtDNA from her mother with maiden name of HILL, etc. backward in time. ***** It turns out that the mutation rates for the markers on the Y-chromosome are much higher than the mutation rates in mtDNA. This mutation rate for Y-chromosome markers such as those with names like DYS19 occur at about the right rate to make them useful for studying the history of Y-chromosomes on relatively short time scales, say 12 to 75 generations into the past. The more markers studied, the closer in time comparisons can be made. Because of low mutation rates for mtDNA, this type of analysis is more appropriate for determining what happened over a much longer time period, such as between 10,000 and 100,000 years ago, which is before recorded history began. ***** For persons with a European origin, more than half of all Europeans descendants will have a mtDNA haplotype called H in the scientific literature and this is the same as Byran Sykes' Helena Clan. The Helana sequence arose about 20,000 years ago. When I had my mtDNA typed, I was haplotype U or Ursula Clan. This clan arose 45,000 years ago and only about 11% of modern day Europeans have this haplotype. This is the oldest of the surviving Clans in Europe. mtDNA analysis can produce some surprising results, such as indicating a person had an ancestral mother of Native American origin, for example. Such information is usually not documented in family records, and is only ascertained by such analysis of mtDNA. World-wide, there are about 30 different mtDNA clans that have been identified, meaning that so far as we know today, descendants of only about 30 women who lived sometime in the far distant past still have living descendents in the world today. As we sequence more samples from such places as the far east, the list of clan mothers may increase. Jim Sims Fort Worth, TX jimsims@sbcglobal.net

At 11:42 AM 01/03/2002 -0600, you wrote: >This is great news for those who have a male in the line to test. But for those of us who have no males living or have those males who could or would not participate, what can we do to see which line is ours? >Sarah > Dear Sarah, This was a good question, so I am going to post it to the list as well. As far as DNA testing goes, I'm not sure what avenues may be open to you. Perhaps Mitochondrial DNA testing is an option, but I know very little about it as it did not seem to be of value for what we hoped to accomplish with the Y-chromosome testing. You might want to check into this though and see if it might provide you with some help. I hope that everyone understands that it was not our intention to exclude females from this particular test. That was governed completely by the fact that females do not carry a Y-chromosome (they have a pair of X-chromosomes, while males get one X from their mother and one Y from their father). For many, DNA testing is a hard enough concept to grasp without having to figure out why some can participate and others cannot. But it is my hope that by being able to map out some of our lines by this means of testing, that folks in your situation may at some point be able to identify with one of them through the standard means of genealogical research. If you know that you connect to a particular line of the Payne family and that line has been genetically mapped, than you could benefit in that way. I hope that is at least a partial consolation? Regards, Patrick

This is great news for those who have a male in the line to test. But for those of us who have no males living or have those males who could or would not participate, what can we do to see which line is ours? Sarah

Hello and Happy New Year! I would just like to inform everyone that today I submitted a list of 25 individuals who will be participating in our Payne family DNA project. In a very short period of time we managed to move from the inception of the idea and into the testing phase. Our test kits should begin arriving within a week and the lab advises that it should take about 4 weeks to have results once all of the kits have been returned. I wish to thank everyone that has supported this project. Particularly those who have elected to participate in what I feel is a very important addition to our genealogical research. The Paynes can be counted among a relatively small list of families to undertake this form of research and that should be a tribute to us all. We are all very excited to know what the results may reveal and I know that many of you share this excitement with us. Once we have this initial Payne family DNA signature on record, forever more Paynes will have the ability to compare their own DNA signature to this initial database. Future Payne genealogists will be able to immediately identify which family line they should turn to begin their journey. DNA testing will never replace the traditional means of genealogical research, but should enhance it considerably and provide us with details about family relationships that we may have no other way of establishing due to records which have been lost, destroyed, or had otherwise never been recorded at all. In effect, our recorded Payne DNA signatures will create a scientific pedigree chart based on the same technology that has already become commonplace in forensic research, high-level (and high-profile) criminal investigations, paternity testing and is viewed as indisputable proof in our Courts. Although we have already begun this initial round, I will remain available to help coordinate any future testing should anyone like to do so. Once again, Thank You! Best wishes and a Happy New Year! Patrick ppayne1203@earthlink.net