Ah! The DELETE key, how wonderful. > ---------- > From: R. D. Fisher[SMTP:[email protected]] > Sent: Sunday, April 12, 1998 12:44 AM > To: [email protected] > Cc: Brian L. Cartwright; [email protected]; > [email protected]; [email protected]; > [email protected]; [email protected]; > [email protected]; [email protected]; > [email protected]; [email protected]; > [email protected]; [email protected]; > [email protected]; [email protected]; > [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; > [email protected]; [email protected]; > [email protected]; [email protected]; > [email protected]; [email protected]; > [email protected]; [email protected]; > [email protected]; [email protected]; > [email protected]; [email protected]; > [email protected]; [email protected]; > [email protected]; [email protected]; > [email protected]; [email protected]; > [email protected]; [email protected]; > [email protected]; [email protected]; > [email protected]; [email protected]; > [email protected]; [email protected]; > [email protected]; [email protected]; > [email protected]; [email protected]; > [email protected]; [email protected]; > [email protected]; [email protected]; > [email protected]; > [email protected]; [email protected]; > [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: STOP WITH THE SUICIDE THING, PLEASE!!!!! > > > > Clifford Statler wrote: > > > Can't some of you list owners do something about this tread? > > > > Brian L. Cartwright wrote: > > > > > I will say one thing, this is the first time I've ever felt I've > been > > > spammed. Almost every mailing list I'm on was hit, I had 87 > messages > > > in my mail, was only about 12 real messages, all the rest were > > > repeats...anyway, my two cents > > > > > > ---------- > > > > ==== PACUMBER Mailing List ==== > > Have you considered joining the Rootsweb Genealogical Data > Cooperative? > > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html > > > > For us forgetful types there is new on-line credit card option. > > >

To all subscribers of the "Rootsweb Project" Though the initial "Spam Group" was bad enough, creating everyone to Jump In and give their Pros and Cons to the subject, that real spammers, are people that respond to that issue of discussion. I did a "Reply-to-All" and now have created another Spam, just like Randy Hoover did responding with his Philosophical Point of View on the subject. It's not the original Spam that crashes systems, its the one person times the number of mailing lists that they subscribe to responses. I received 53 letters in 24 hours, of which 7 did not relate to this subject of Spamming. You, the respondees are going to kill Rootsweb ! My ISP just took a 4 day hit on it's mail servers due to a Spamming Scheme ! It cost them millions to upgrade 100% of what they used to comfortably be able to operate at. It is better to turn these people in than to close a Free service such as Rootsweb. Give me the original letter that started this and I will start the ball rolling. My ISP will probably file a Joint Class Action Suit against these people and I do know the person who teaches Internet Security to the local FBI Office here in town ! I want these junkies off the net, they are wasting the money I paid for the services I wanted, not forced to accept ! It is a Federal Crime to receive Junk Mail via Fax Machines, I'm sure that this would fall into that category as well. If you're wondering what I'm talking about, look at Dr.. Hoo's cc:'s I added PacBell ! Sincerely, Toby White-Beebe Date: Saturday, April 11, 1998 1:01 PM Subject: Re: GENEALOGICAL SUICIDE “The problem with truth is its verification, the problem with fiction is its veracity.” Randy Hoover [email protected] ==== PAWASHIN Mailing List ==== Remember!! The reply to key will send only to the author of a message. If your reply "might" be of interest to the list, be sure to enter [email protected] in the cc box on your mail program.

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Shel-Leah, I couldn't have put it more succinctly or more eloquent myself. Everyone, I believe, reports what they believe to be accurate. But even if incorrect information creeps in, there are still erasers. Exchange of information has always been, and always will be, prone to errors. But we have to start somewhere. Sorry Dave, but it no longer takes a year to uncover a juicy bit of information. And, even if its wrong someone will tell me and I can make a correction. Burt Sickler

I wrote a more lengthy response to Dave, but I wanted to share a condensed response to the group. I have found information from a variety of sources including Ancestry files and World Family Tree files. My suggestion is to be sure to include the source information when submitting to these types of collections. WFT however, blots out the source information and lists the source as WFT instead of where the submitter found it. We can help each other by including our sources with the "Notes" portion of the file o thers can have a better idea of where the information came from. Some people already do this, and I've been thankful for it, because it has frequently led me to other information I would not have otherwise found. I have also started putting into my notes explanations of where conflicting information comes from if I know. Brian Smith

Guys, I'm really sick of this! Every time I get on a group server, someone gets on a band wagon or starts an arguement. Oh course we have to prove all info that's what genealogy is all about...Remember, let the buyer beware! Well, that goes for users too! Barbara Couts Evans

Probably you don't need one more letter to the latest controversy of records and internet but no one has mentioned just using some common sense. I have a letter here asking for documentation, are you kidding? In our area there are no birth or death ceritificates before the late 1800's. Most of the people could not read or write, they were too busy trying to survive. Records might have been kept by one individual that could write and, even if some of those records survived, they might not be accurate. Children were born, if they survived they might show up in tax rolls IF the area kept them, it they died they could have been buried under a tree in the back yard. Our grandmother had a brother & sister (twins) buried that way. Now the house and tree are all gone. If someone told 10 people their name it could have come out as at least 5 different spellings, the person telling it would not even know the difference. And people argue because the name isn't spelled the way they know it now! The carving on the gravestone was not done by the person put there, nor the information on the death certificate. An example, my grgrandmother has a headstones in two different graveyards. Seems her son intended to move her to where the rest of the family was buried but when he had the stone carved he even had her death date before he was born. (she was never moved) This is the type of stories that has to be put out and with the explanation. Newspaper articles got screwed up then as much as now. All it takes for a book to get published is the money to pay for it. The Dutch Settlers book is an example, it should be circular filed, but yet there are clues in it and must be worked on. ALL local history books have some errors, we might be able to prove them and should put the new info out. But some will never be. The point is, I appreciate each and every clue that is given to me and will try to work them out to the best of my ability but, unless you are getting all your information from "the horses' mouth", should you really expect everything to be accurate? _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

To help you connect to my RYANS. My Great Grandfather was William J RYAN born 1868 from the Mahanoy City area of PA. His parents are both from Ireland as shown on the 1900 Phila Census. In 1900 he is shown living in Phila with his wife's family and his own family. I have not found out when they all moved to Phila , but I assume it was shortly after 1890. I have a recreated baptismal certificate from St Canicus Church in Mahanoy City for Oct 16 1868 for William RYAN born on Oct 12 1868. Father listed as James Ryan. Mother's maiden name Margaret Curry. By Reverend Michael McEvoy. Sponsors Michael Lonergan and Margaret Carr. I have not found any other information about them upstate before the Phila move. William RYAN became a doctor in Phila sometime after 1910 probably graduating from Temple Med School.> My Great Grandmother was Mary Theresa POPPERT (married RYAN) born 1870 probably from the Girardville or Shenendoaha area of PA. Her parents were Valentine POPPERT (formerly Von POPPERT) born 1838 in Germany and Winifried POPPERT (maiden name unknown) born 1838 in Ireland. The Phila addresses that I have found on the census records are: 1900 Valentine POPPERT and family living at 3513 Market St 1910 Wm J RYAN sr and family living at 5145 Westminster Ave 1920 Wm J RYAN sr and family living at 703 55th St 1920 Wm J RYAN jr living at 5522 Osage Ave If this connects with anybody please let me know. I am trying to make the link from 1900 back thru 1890 and 1880 but I understand that this is hard because of missing census records. Sincerely James R RYAN

To help you connect to my RYANS. My Great Grandfather was William J RYAN born 1868 from the Mahanoy City area of PA. His parents are both from Ireland as shown on the 1900 Phila Census. In 1900 he is shown living in Phila with his wife's family and his own family. I have not found out when they all moved to Phila , but I assume it was shortly after 1890. I have a recreated baptismal certificate from St Canicus Church in Mahanoy City for Oct 16 1868 for William RYAN born on Oct 12 1868. Father listed as James Ryan. Mother's maiden name Margaret Curry. By Reverend Michael McEvoy. Sponsors Michael Lonergan and Margaret Carr. I have not found any other information about them upstate before the Phila move. William RYAN became a doctor in Phila sometime after 1910 probably graduating from Temple Med School.> My Great Grandmother was Mary Theresa POPPERT (married RYAN) born 1870 probably from the Girardville or Shenendoaha area of PA. Her parents were Valentine POPPERT (formerly Von POPPERT) born 1838 in Germany and Winifried POPPERT (maiden name unknown) born 1838 in Ireland. The Phila addresses that I have found on the census records are: 1900 Valentine POPPERT and family living at 3513 Market St 1910 Wm J RYAN sr and family living at 5145 Westminster Ave 1920 Wm J RYAN sr and family living at 703 55th St 1920 Wm J RYAN jr living at 5522 Osage Ave If this connects with anybody please let me know. I am trying to make the link from 1900 back thru 1890 and 1880 but I understand that this is hard because of missing census records.

I disagree. I enjoy begin copied on the follow-up. If it relates to me I can keep it and stay in touch with the discussion. If it does not, I simply erase. Please don't assume everyone feels as you do. Kate O'

-----Original Message----- From: Mary Harris <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]> Cc: Wayne L II <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]> Date: Sunday, April 12, 1998 8:37 AM Subject: Re: SICK OF GENEALOGICAL SUICIDE TOPIC >Dear fellow listowners and researchers, > >I too am very tired of seeing this thread and would like to see it stopped >as quickly as possible. The only way to do so is for each listowner of a >closed list to sound off and let the recipients of this post know that >their list is closed and to please remove it from the huge cc: list. In >this post, I have removed from the list pacheste-l and padelawa-l, my own >tow lists, which are closeed to outside posts. I have also stripped out the >Quaker-Roots list and The Roots-L as I know these are also not open lists. >If each of you will do the same and remove your own closed lists from your >posts in the process, we should be able to dwindle this mess down. For that >matter, you could ask to have folks remove your lists from the cc even if >you're not closed. Either way, the irresponsibility of the original poster >has gone on long enough. BRing this to a close! > >REMOVE FROM CC: > > [email protected] > [email protected] > > > > >Mary Harris, listowner > I had rather see "suicide topic" as all the squawking about it.

This thread is the biggest threat to genealogy. This cross posting to all these lists is going to crash rootsweb! Please stop this thread or take it private. If the average list on this thread has 500 people on it, this post generates over 25,000 posts each time someone replies to it. Maiser, a genealogy server like rootsweb was crashed by a single spam of 10,000 posts and is no more. It never recovered. You are putting rootsweb in danger of doing the same. When you cross post, the computer tries to send out all these messages at once. It not only causes an unbalance but can also backlog all these messages until the system overloads and crashes. Brian who runs rootsweb has posted about how dangerous this practice is and has asked that people cross post to only 3 or 4 at a time (in the case of roots-l that has over 10,000 subscribers, post to it alone.) So please, stop this now. A listowner whose list was spammed by this post.

Dear fellow listowners and researchers, I too am very tired of seeing this thread and would like to see it stopped as quickly as possible. The only way to do so is for each listowner of a closed list to sound off and let the recipients of this post know that their list is closed and to please remove it from the huge cc: list. In this post, I have removed from the list pacheste-l and padelawa-l, my own tow lists, which are closeed to outside posts. I have also stripped out the Quaker-Roots list and The Roots-L as I know these are also not open lists. If each of you will do the same and remove your own closed lists from your posts in the process, we should be able to dwindle this mess down. For that matter, you could ask to have folks remove your lists from the cc even if you're not closed. Either way, the irresponsibility of the original poster has gone on long enough. BRing this to a close! REMOVE FROM CC: [email protected] [email protected] Mary Harris, listowner

ENOUGH!!! I am only on two of the mentioned lists and have had over 45 emails about this. This has nothing to do with the two county lists I belong to. LISTOWNERS...PLEASE have them move this to a genealogy CHAT list. I have recently dropped other lists for the same reason. If I drop these as well, many people in my two list counties will miss 1)possible connections I always send them and 2)Lookups I do for people in one of those counties with reference materials I have here. If all of you are so worried about genealogy being researched correctly, then quit your bickering and voicing of opinions and get on with your research and let the rest of us work on ours instead of clogging our mailboxes with off topic subjects. Are you all at dead ends or something? It is MY OPINION that the "serous genealogist" has work and research to do. Not idle time for such chit chat and being involved in off topic threads. Now please drop it people. Get on with your research and your lives. Sharon Bowers Barnes

David, You said: "When one piece of erroneous information becomes 1000 pieces of the same erroneous information, it takes on a life of it's own and an enearned "truth". I don't think this is a problem only on the internet. I have seen genealogies done 100 years ago with oodles of errors. I correspond with several OTT families [of different origins] and some of them have their histories so mixed up, I wonder if the will ever straighten them out! Primary sources, primary sources and then that combined with a big handful of caution and good sense and your genealogy might not present a barrier to your descendants. Unfortunately genealogies are not like dissertations with a review committee, etc. They probably should be, but practically never will be. Cora

Clifford Statler wrote: > Can't some of you list owners do something about this tread? > > Brian L. Cartwright wrote: > > > I will say one thing, this is the first time I've ever felt I've been > > spammed. Almost every mailing list I'm on was hit, I had 87 messages > > in my mail, was only about 12 real messages, all the rest were > > repeats...anyway, my two cents > > > > ---------- > > ==== PACUMBER Mailing List ==== > Have you considered joining the Rootsweb Genealogical Data Cooperative? > > http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html > > For us forgetful types there is new on-line credit card option.

Now it's time for me to add my $.02 cents about this discussion Dave started. I've very new to genealogy research via internet. I, too, did it the old way for quite some time. However, the internet is a wonderful tool! Key word here is Tool! What's always the first place to start? Interviewing relatives, right? Now, how much inaccuracy do we find there? Plenty! But, it's a tool. No matter what our primary or secondary source is, we do have the privilege to accept what we find until it's disproven. Our responsibility is to prove everything - no matter what the source. I think the idea about two sets of records may be beneficial, but if a record contains an erroneous statement about one thing doesn't mean that it can't help someone else who finds it on a website and uses it for their purposes - it may be correct for theirs. Perhaps unverified (or not verified by two or more sources) should be labeled as such. But left off a website - I vote no. I'm still trying to track down the source some really off the wall records on some of my husband's family. But, it's out there somewhere, internet or not, I don't know. But do I want it thrown out? No! I want to find the source, correct it, and move on from there. Some of it may be incorrect, but at least it helped fill in a few blanks spots where it wasn't. And I thank the stars for duplication. It saves me time! I can see where better identification of sources would help, however. Linda Hollenbach Hartzfeld

Can't some of you list owners do something about this tread? Brian L. Cartwright wrote: > I will say one thing, this is the first time I've ever felt I've been > spammed. Almost every mailing list I'm on was hit, I had 87 messages > in my mail, was only about 12 real messages, all the rest were > repeats...anyway, my two cents > > ----------

Really folks- we all do our best and I have been thrilled with the willingness of other researchers to share info. I have also been very thankful for all I have received- in what ever way. For my self, I always put " not documented " on any info I send out !! I am a novice to computers- don't own a list or have a web site- don't even know how- yet- to attach a file- etc. !! I'm learning . My research , when I began was out there digging , but last few years- due to responsibilities of baby sitting grandchildren and caring for an ailing husband- my time for that have been sorely curbed. Thank goodness for computer- lists etc. I will say , even what you think might be fact, often isn't. In researching my Blair ancestory- I found a mistake in Snell's history of Warren Co. NJ as to who my 4th g gf married- just didn't compute !! I proved it incorrect- now that was a historian !! In Pension file from Civil War- a place of birh was incorrect !! In a family History Book I tracked down on my mother's line- info on my gg gm was all wrong- so I think we all know that info not documented can't be taken as fact. We all do the best we can- To end this- I agree, if you don't want your genealogy info ,and research to be shared, then don't put it on the internet ! For myself- anything I have , I am more than glad to share- I get pleasure in helping folks- So maybe I did the leg work- so what !! - Rose

Does anyone know how I can get a list of the Justices of the Peace for Wyoming Co. around the War of 1812? I have just received pension records for an ancestor of mine which states that him and his wife were married by the Justice of the Peace for Luzerne Co. (now Wyoming). The name of the person is not very readable but if I had a list of all potential candidates I am sure I could narrow it down. Sincerely, Jennifer [email protected]