Shirley and others -- Your request re Smithdale and Ocean No. 5 is more complicated than you might imagine. I will try to explain, but to really understand you need to be familiar with the area and what was there in the earlier years. First of all, Smithdale existed at least in name as early as the 1890s. If you cannot find this pre-1930, try the name "Taylor", which is what part of the same area was known as. There was a railroad whistle stop at Smithdale pre-1900. However, here comes the confusion. There were actually 2 (and a third one described at the end of this missive) mines in the immediate area, not one. First, we have Ocean No. 5 (Ocean 1 was across the Yough, 2 at Scott Haven, and 3 and 4 on a spur just above Buena Vista). Then, about 1800 feet north we had the Forest Hill Mine, sometimes called the Ellsworth Mine as the Ellsworth people operated it for a long time. Neither of these mines, both of which probably first opened in the very early 1890s, were originally owned by Pittsburgh Coal Company. The Ocean operator was Youghiogheny River Coal Company, and I do not recall about the Forest Hill developer. Here comes a problem in understanding all this. The Smithdale Station on the railroad was located at railroad survey point 1539, the Ocean 5 Mine Tipple was at 1523, and the Forest Hill mine was at 1505. Each survey point equals 100 feet, so Smithdale Station is 1600 feet south of Ocean 5, and Forest Hill is 1800 feet north of Ocean 5. Workers walked these distances to work every day, so we cannot assume just where the employee worked or lived without independent confirmation. Where did the people live? River Road (called Highway) was west (above) the Forest Hill Mine, and people lived in this area. The Highway was east of Ocean 5 and Smithdale, toward the Yough River. People lived at both Ocean 5 and Smithdale, but they were actually separate housing areas. My guess is that the housing around Ocean 5 was called Taylor. About 1894 there were about 33 houses, one Methodist Church, and one "Dago" Shack in the Ocean 5 area. No stores. Even though I believe this area was called Taylor, it actually likely became part of "Smithdale", which I imagine was just a name, not a town. About 200 feet north of the Smithdale Station, the Highway crossed the railroad tracks and paralleled the tracks on the west side. At the point where the road crossed the tracks, George Sansom operated a store. About 250 feet south of the Station, John Weis operated another store. Just south of this store there were 4 houses, a large stable, and a Public School. I have the names of the occupants of these 4 houses which were Joseph Karoly, John Skaruby, Mike Rebar and John Miller. Rebar and Skaruby jointly operated the Stable. There were no other houses in this area, so this was what I call the original Smithdale, as opposed to Taylor which built up around Ocean 5. Again, the above physical descriptions are from about the years 1900 to 1905. Ocean 5 entrance was about 250' west of the tracks, up the hill. The Tipple House and Tipple were between. They operated 4 side tracks in this area, called River Track, Hill Track, Slack Track, and Box Car Track. I am not sure which one was which, but I imagine that each was also used to collect different grades of coal under the Tipple House. The longest side track (River) was about 3000 feet long. There were several interconnections. At the entrance (head of the Tipple) there were 3 buildings, the Check Room, the old Blacksmith Shop, and the new Blacksmith Shop. The pumphouse was at Survey Point 1519, and the coal company had an office at SP 1516. The Forest Hill mine had about the same arrangement, and was about 200 feet west of the main tracks. Now comes an even bigger mystery. There was actually a third (active) mine entrance in the immediate area between Ocean 5 and Forest Hill. Pittsburgh Coal ended up owning all three mines, so I am not positive which mine this entrance connected with. This unnamed entrance was located at SP 1509, and I imagine workers from Smithdale and Taylor and Forest Hill areas also worked at this location. There was no Tipple at this location, only a Boiler House and Dynamo Room, and a huge stable (I imagine for the horses and mules). There was also a Dilly Track up to this entrance, also about 250 feet west of the main tracks. They apparently loaded the rough-cut coal directly into hopper cars at a short side track just below the entrance and near the main tracks. Now that I have given you all History 101, run with it. Obviously, I enjoy Mining History along this bank of the Youghiogheny River. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 9:50 AM Subject: [PAWESTMO] Elizabeth Twp., Allegheny Co. help > Smithdale was just across the river from Sutersville, Westmoreland Co. so > perhaps someone here can help me. > I read the 1930 Smithdale census to find the coal miners. Of course, it > was > a coal mining town and nearly every head of household was a laborer in > the > coal mines... > Ocean 5, Pittsburgh Coal Co. > I thought perhaps I could check the 1920 Smithdale census, but I can't > find > it. I've check different places for the history of Ocean 5, thinking > perhaps > Smithdale didn't even exist until after coal was discovered, but I don't > know when that was. > Has anyone ever run across Smithdale, Elizabeth Twp., Allegheny Co. in the > 1920 census? > I do remember a few houses that were NOT built by the coal mine owners, > but > just a very few. They clung to the hills above the Yough River, one road > leading to the coal mine entrance and beyond, the other leading up the > hill to > the highway to West Newton. I can't remember if they were older than the > other > houses built by the coal company, but they didn't seem much older. > Houses > darken in coal mining towns. > > My grandparents had 8 children (6 born in Bradenville, Westmoreland Co.) > and > were assigned the 2 largest houses in town...the first where I was born > just > before the coal mine entrance, the last on the road leading out of town. > Uncle Charlie had another large house that he turned into a boarding > house for > single miners. He worked the mines, too, even if the census doesn't say > so. > > I'm going to extract the head of house hold laborers in the coal mines > from > the Smithdale 1930 census and submit it to the miner's museum. I thought > having 1920 would add something to the research, but was there a 1920 > Smithdale? > > Thanks for the help, > Shirley > > > > > **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your > travel > deal here. > (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message