My family name is STUTZMAN. My great grandfather was Elmer F. Stutzman and living in Seward when he died in 1956. I am interested in finding his property deeds and estate file (Will). I am assuming that these documents would be held at the courthouse but I am not sure. I have no interest in the funeral homes or cemeteries in the Seward area because he is buried in Johnstown and the funeral took place from Johnstown. I know here in Chester County PA these documents are held at different locations because our over crowding. Many documents can only be accessed by microfilm. If someone could direct me in the right location for these documents, It would be greatly appreciated. Thank you Sharon

am new to this list. Westmoreland County is new territory that I am treading for family research. I sent this same email to the Westmoreland Historic List. I later realized that it was probably wrong. So I went back searching for this list and now am sending it to this list. Sorry if you get this same email twice. My great grandfather lived in Seward when he died in 1956. Formerly from Johnstown. I am looking to search for his estate file and property deed. I know that Seward is approximately 8 miles from Johnstown, but where do I need to go in Westmoreland County to find the info I am seeking? What and where is the county seat located? Where might I find a historical society or archives for this area? Is there a public library or research library that would be of use to me at this time? What records and documents do these places hold? I am also interested in the addresses, phone numbers, and operating hours that the above places may be found. Any help would be appreciate. Thank you Sharon

Hello, Looking for any obit or mention of Jacob & Martha Welshons' passing in Westmoreland or Fayette counties. Both buried in the Truxal [Troxal, Troxel, Drachsel] Private Cemetery*. It is but a few feet of ground enclosed with a paling fence, and is but a few yards from route 981 leading from Mount Pleasant to Pleasant Unity. It is situated on the original farm owned by Abraham Drachsel [Troxal, Troxel]. Jacob Welshons b. 1 Nov 1784 d. 26 April 1871; Mt. Pleasant/East Huntingdon *buried Row 2 #7. Martha Welshons b. 1787 d. 11 July 1851; Mt. Pleasant/East Huntingdon *buried Row 3 #5. Thank you in advance, Todd Gilman

Pat- I am routing this through list because so many people seem to ask the same question. There are several things one can get from old deeds: wife's first name, date of execution (you know the grantor was alive at that time and place), description "by metes and bounds" ( Beginning at a hickory tree on the bank of the creek, thence so many rods, perches, feet by line of property now or formerly of Smith, North 0 degrees etc. ), neighboring landowners (see description), reference to prior title ("Being the same property which the Commonwelth of Pennsylvania patented to John Jones, the grantor herein,etc."), and others..One hits the jackpot if the deed is conveying the interests of heirs to the property; it usually notes the date of death of the decedent, and by necessity names the heirs and their spouses. An interesting procedure is the acknowledgement of the signatures of the grantors by a notary or justice of the peace. It goes like this, for example, "Before me, a ! notary public in and for the County of Westmoreland, township of Rostraver comes John Smith,etc.". In the old days it was not unusual for some of the signers of the deed to live a good distance away from the place where the property was located. Rather than to travel a long distance to execute the deed, they had the deed messengered to them and had a LOCAL notary/justice administer the acknowledgement of their signatures to them and their spouses. THIS will tell you where they lived at the time, at least to township level. Sometimes they did travel for a family reunion or sharing out session. THEN you can't tell if they are all local or not. Now for the Recorder of Deeds office. By statute, if two innocent ( no fraud on their part) parties turn up with properly executed deeds to the same , or parts of the same, property, the PRESUMPTION is that the first one recorded gets the gold. Caveat: lawyers get rich overturning presumptions. Now, deeds are indexed by the name! s of the sellers and the buyers (grantors and grantees). In the case of patents (The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania's deed out), Pennsylvania is the grantor, and the (backward) buck stops there. Theoretically if the lawyers have done their job properly, one can start in the middle of the chain of title and work either backwards or forward in time. It does not take long to learn the indexing system in Pennsylvania. The clerks at the Recorders Office usually are happy to give lessons. VERY FEW of the old deeds are on line, but if you know the Deed Book and page numbers, you can order photocopies of deeds in Westmoreland to have for your very own. Be aware that the early ones are in cursive, so that "f"s are not always "foofed", but " esssed" instead. But the point is that (like a good joke) you've got to be there or hire someone to do the job. In the legal biz, these people are called title searchers, and they work for title companies. If you've bought property in Pennsylva! nia, you've probably bought title insurance and the leg work for the companies assurance of your title is done by them. Title searchers usually dont want to bother with genies- it doesn't pay as well as searching for companies. So the question is -can a list like ours refer to a professional? I don't know. Most lists have rules against commercials. In this case, I, in Idaho, could sure use a professional (paid) searcher. What say all? Allen D. McCrady

I posted this request earlier and a few kind people responded. Will you please resend the information/links........some how lost all emails from 3 specific days Thank you, Michelle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michelle Ortz" <BEARDEN5@peoplepc.com> To: <PAWESTMO-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 11:08 PM Subject: [PAWESTMO-L] Dwyer family members > Hello all. I am looking for information about a Frances Dwyer or Edward Dwyer who lived in Luxor, PA and was a miner. His wife was Kathy Sachs. I do not know when or where he was born , when married or when died & place of burial. Guess I don't know much. Would appreciate any help > > thanks, > Michelle > > > ==== PAWESTMO Mailing List ==== > >

Thanks to all for the excellent info on the Westmoreland County Tax Maps. I have copies of the 1816 Application, Warrant, Survey, and Land Patent awarded my John Cummins family. My problem is trying to find out when, and to whom, John Cummins subsequently sold the land. The documentation may give me some clues as to other family in the area. Can someone advise as to the best way to track it down? Thanks, Pat Patrick Stover Cummins Researching the Cummins, Hamilton, Smith, Kraft, Lewallen, Stover, Pennell, and related lines. Visit us at _www.thecomyn.com_ (http://www.thecomyn.com/) Trees Listed with _www.gencircles.com_ (http://www.gencircles.com/)

<<Can someone advise as to the best way to track it down?>> This is what Allen said: ...write to Harrisburg, giving the owner's name(s) you are looking for, plus the information on the maps you aready have. They will send you PHOTOCOPIES of images in the archives. Typically, once the name is found by them, they will copy the front and back of the application, the front and back of the survey , and one or two pages in the patent book. The patent books have acquired marginal notes over the years, and these might help you in your search(es). The costs per name plus up to 10 photocopies was $15 in 2004 for out of staters, $10 for Pennsylvanians. The Address: Pennsylvania Archives, 350 North St., Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, 17120-0090. > >

Following up on my early post about the old property maps that are available in the Westmoreland County offices: A friend reminded me that those early warrants do not always reflect how the property was eventually disposed. There was a good deal of buying and selling going on right from the start. For example, my Milliron ancestors seem to have lived just east of the borders circumscribed on the Stanton area warrant - indicating that they bought or swapped some land that changed the boundaries very early on. The good news is that the maps have warrant and patent numbers on each tract, and you can use them to find accompanying records in the PA Archives at Harrisburg - including applications, surveys and margin notes. Tom

Tom Chapman- We'll try this once again. You might want to make a hard copy to reread if you forget. You recommended the maps (Warrantee/patentee) at the Westmoreland Tax Mapping Office. You said you had three of them. If you look at those maps, you will find your properties with names on them. Each property has an estate name or nickname, such as "SPRINGFIELD". Under that name is the acreage figure. Under that is the name of the patentee; that is the name of the first owner, other than the Commonwealth. Under that is the name of the instrument which the state granted and the date of its granting. Most,by far, will read "patent", then the date the patent was ISSUED by Pennsylvania. THEN, a series of letters and numbers. In Westmoreland maps, these refer to the patent books archived in Harrisburg. The information from these books was used to create the warrantee/patentee maps which you have samples of.. EXAMPLE-- PB P 3 156 . This translates to Patent Book! s, Series "P" , volume three, page 156. Sometimes an application number will be given. In other counties (Fayette), more information is given right on the map. This includes the name of the person who APPLIED for the warrant and the date it was received by the land office (an important date for establishing priority of claim), the date of the SURVEY, and finally the date the PATENT was issued and to whom. Getting back to Westmoreland County, the only way you can find the additional information that Fayette wrote on their maps is to write to Harrisburg, giving the owner's name(s) you are looking for, plus the information on the maps you aready have. They will send you PHOTOCOPIES of images in the archives. Typically, once the name is found by them, they will copy the front and back of the application, the front and back of the survey , and one or two pages in the patent book. The patent books have acquired marginal notes over the years, and these might help you in your search(es). The costs per name plus up to 10 photocopies was $15 in 2004 for out of staters, $10 for Pennsylvanians. The Address: Pennsylvania Archives, 350 North St. ,Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, 17120-0090. A few additional facts: sometimes the "sooners" of 1769 -1784 did not bother to register their claims in the land office until at least one change of ownership had taken place, by whatever legal instrum! ents ( or none) they could use at the time. Sometimes there were disputes as to who had the prior claim. These latter were begun by filing a "caveat" (latin for "beware") in the land office. These administrative legal actions ( sound familiar?) were archived in their own reference book- the Caveat Book. Searches at Harrisburg (another reason for not stopping at the information listed on the maps in the Westmoreland tax office) will include these data. The legal principle to keep in mind ( caveat- there are exceptions. This kept lawyers rich.) is that the first registered at the land office was presumptively the legal owner. Also, until 1780 when the Virginia warrants for land in what was Western Pennsylvania were transferred to Pennsylvania, two people could have good claims for the same land if one was warranted in PA and one in VA. Also one must keep in mind the various dates for the inception of the various municipalities. For instance, the land upon which the Duque! sne Incline operates in present day Pittsburgh was in Washington County, Pennsylvania for a short time and in The District of West Augusta, County of Yohogania, VIRGINIA at the same. Fortuntely these problems are rare and only of interest to historians and genealogists. Is this all clear? Allen D. McCrady

Looking for information on Abraham Feightner & Family who lived in Westmorland Co. Pa then migrated to Wayne County Ohio. Thanks

Hello List! My Milliron ancestors lived in South Hempfield, Westmoreland County, during the Revolutionary War, and it seems to be several of them that frequently appear in records of the Cumberland Militia. Why do you suppose they would not have served instead in the Westmoreland Militia or other local forces? Does anybody know of other Westmoreland men that served with Cumberland? A couple of things come to mind for me - one being that the Cumberland Militia may have mustered at Fort Ligonier; and the other is that the Millirons may have had some sort of military supply contract that connected them to Ligonier, so they killed 2 birds with one stone. Tom

there still are old stones there, but the gates are locked most of the time and you have to be careful..ground is uneven there is a lot of partying and drugs that go one in that area.. ----- Original Message ----- From: "laney" <ekw321@alltel.net> To: <PAWESTMO-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 11:50 PM Subject: Re: [PAWESTMO-L] Livermore Cemetery >I am not real sure, but I don't think that there is individual tombstones >there anymore, just one memorial. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jan Roggy" <jlroggy@essex1.com> > To: <PAWESTMO-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 9:50 PM > Subject: [PAWESTMO-L] Livermore Cemetery > > >>I was wondering if there was anyone on the list that lives near Livermore, >>who would take some photos of some tombstones for me. I'm willing to pay >>for expenses. Jan >> >> >> ==== PAWESTMO Mailing List ==== >> >> >> > > > > ==== PAWESTMO Mailing List ==== > > >

Jeanne, My great great grandparents, Samuel S.and Margaret S. (Ashbaugh) Smith left the area of Derry in 1880 and came west to Dekalb County, Illinois. A large number of children from each's previous marriage came with them. Samuel owned a small farm in Shabbona Grove. Samuel had been wounded in the Civil War at Spotsyvania Courthuose in the Battle of the Wilderness and lost the use of his left arm, for which he received a pension. He died in 1896. Margaret died in 1928. Both are buried in a little cemetery near where they lived. Mike Johnston Oswego, IL -------------- Original message -------------- > Hi - > > Does anyone know of any particular migrations FROM the Derry area to > States further west after 1850, especially Illinois? > > > > Jeanne > > > ==== PAWESTMO Mailing List ==== > >

I am not real sure, but I don't think that there is individual tombstones there anymore, just one memorial. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jan Roggy" <jlroggy@essex1.com> To: <PAWESTMO-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 9:50 PM Subject: [PAWESTMO-L] Livermore Cemetery >I was wondering if there was anyone on the list that lives near Livermore, >who would take some photos of some tombstones for me. I'm willing to pay >for expenses. Jan > > > ==== PAWESTMO Mailing List ==== > > >

Hi - Does anyone know of any particular migrations FROM the Derry area to States further west after 1850, especially Illinois? Jeanne

Hi - I am trying to determine who Emily (Emma) C. McClure married. She was born ca 1840, the daughter of Alexander McClure and his wife, Judith McClure, of Derry - then New Derry. Her siblings were: Mary A., Richard R. William F., John, Henry T., Andrew S., George W., and Jonathan C. Any help is appreciated. Jeanne

Tom, Thanks for the great report. My husband and I were there several years ago to do research, but we didn't know of this resource, or maybe it wasn't there at the time. Just for future reference, in what county office is this service located? I think my husband's GGGG Grandfather, James Crawford, was living in Westmoreland Co. around 1810-1814. We may have to investigate this resource sometime. Thanks again for sharing, Barb Crawford Hocking Co., OH ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Chapman" <SurfCityTom@socal.rr.com> To: <PAWESTMO-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 10:01 PM Subject: [PAWESTMO-L] Property maps > Hello List! > > I just returned from a roots research vacation in PA, and I wanted to > relay a great source that I found at the Westmoreland County offices - if > you don't already know. > There is an office that does tax mapping, and they have a collection of > maps that show all the original warrants and patents for every square inch > of Westmoreland. There is a master map that has the county divided into > about 300 grids. Then there is a separate 2' x 3' map for each grid that > details all the properties within it. Also, they have an index of names > that directs you to the specific grids you are searching for. For > example, I found three index listngs for Milliron, indicating property on > grids 121, 221, and 261. (I also found that a property might extend > across two maps, but only be listed on the one where the majority of the > property resides.) > > All of the individual maps are bound in sets and hanging from an open rack > so they can be browsed by the public. In addition, the maps include some > overlay of current data so that you can determine where a tract lies by > contemporary landmarks and references. > > After you find the maps you're looking for, there is a very friendly man > that will assist you and copy them for a charge of $6.00 each. However, > I'm not sure if he has the time or inclination to help people over the > telephone, but you can try. If you know the map you want, they will copy > it and mail it to you, but I didn't ask how much hand-holding they will > provide. > I discovered this resource the first day I arrived, and I was able to > immediately spend the next several days walking my ancestral lands and > searching for signs of old homesteads. Imagine my excitement when I was > able to locate a stone foundation and spring house of what may have been > the original Milliron log cabin established about 1772. > > Good luck, > > Tom > > > ==== PAWESTMO Mailing List ==== > >

looking for: Thomas F. Byrnes whose social security benefits were paid in Murraysville, Westmoreland, PA. He died June, 1974 Obituary or census information if possible thanks Pat Sullivan

I was wondering if there was anyone on the list that lives near Livermore, who would take some photos of some tombstones for me. I'm willing to pay for expenses. Jan

<<Just for future reference, in what county office is this service located?>> That would be the Map Maintenance Department in the county building connected to the old courthouse - 4th floor. Westmoreland County Map Maintnenance Department 2 N. Main St. suite 406 Greensburg, PA 15601 >