Shirley, thank you for that information. My g.g.g. grandparents came to Indiana Co. by a wagon pulled by oxen from York Co. I'm going to try and get "The Great Wagon Road" here at the Altoona library or one of my friends in Williamsburg may have it. Thanks again, Marlene **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)

In a message dated 6/15/2008 9:22:08 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Shirley, Thank you, What is the name of the book about the great wagon road that you mentioned? And that brings up another question. In about 1786 Hugh Gibbs is paid for guarding a group of people going to KY through the Cumberland Gap. But I would have thought it was easier to just float down the Ohio River and then over to Logan Co. Perhaps he went through the CG and then went and got his Mother and siblings. Stephanie The book is called "The Great Wagon Road." By a local historian who died just recently. Parke Rouse, Jr., formerly of Williamsburg. I have a copy but I think I've packaged it to send to Dawne at the Chestnut Ridge Historical Society. They are going to get copies of my material. The subject is so vast. For 2 hundred years, the colonies had been settled, parceled out to favorite "sons." The Mass. Colony, the throne, different loyal subjects of the throne. Virginia had a charter that granted it all the land that the other colonies didn't own at the time they were created, so Virginia was aggressive in surveying and claiming land. The Mason Dixon survey ended that idea and boundaries were established for Virginia and the other colonies. But migration from the Old Countries didn't stop when available land was gone. The old Braddock Road was created by Gen. Braddock and G. Washington's armies long before the Rev. They needed a way to transport troops and heavy artillery across the Alleghenies to the French territory at Fort Duquesne. When a Virginia woman was kidnapped by natives and taken to the north, she escaped and traveled back by the New River that crossed the mountains. She drew a detailed map for G. Washington. I forget her name, but I read her autobiography. The Youghiogheny River was another way to travel overland but had to bypass on land the falls and the white water in the mountains. Forbes Road was created across the mountains to Westmoreland Co., but water canals were also being built fairly early. Forbes Road crossed Chestnut Ridge in Westmoreland Co. It followed Indian trails, as well. That just barely touches on the migrations from the populous east to the dangerous west. So the later immigrants took those dangerous trails. Enterprising settlers made "lodging" places and those links became a roadway, like The Great Wagon Road. But again, the travelers found the best land taken, so they continued to move to lesser settled areas. Dangerous yes, but dying in a strange land of starvation with land all around them was more eminent. Once Fort Duquesne was taken from the French and their native allies, Pittsburgh was born and the great route to the interior of the country, the Ohio River, was available. The Ohio River is not a slow float. It can be a wild river with several rivers flowing into it from the north and east... Youghiogheny River eventually joins the Mononghelia River and that together with the Allegheny River creates the Ohio River in Pittsburgh. Even in my lifetime they flooded regularly, causing the Ohio River to flood across its banks. My husband's group lost 2 men to the River. Not only that, the natives held many places and they would attack the barges, sometimes so silently a child could die before the parents were aware of the attack. There was another danger not published as much, but not all the boaters were scrupulous and there was a danger from them to helpless travelers. So water travel held the same dangers as overland travel. The Cumberland Gap came fairly late in the eastern migration to the interior lands. I don't know as much about it, but when my husband and I drove down the mountain, it was the first time in my life I was terrified...and we'd driven the Alps in Italy, too. We've never been back that way. I wrote to Parke Rouse, Jr. before he died and asked his opinion why travelers would chose one route over another if the destination was the same? He agreed that sometimes a more difficult route was taken to make the group more cohesive by similar experiences. I can hardly imagine anyone from Fayette Co. (once a portion of Westmoreland Co.) not taking the Ohio River. (It settled in my mind that my HARDINGs were NOT from Fayette Co. but were from the eastern portion of PA. He wrote of overland travel, not water travel.) Or an eastern Pennsylvanian crossing the mountains to travel down the Ohio River when they could travel The Old Wagon Road to the Cumberland Gap. Questions you can think about when you think about GIBBS in KY and Cumberland Co. (Different place from the Cumberland Gap, of course.) And yes, men did frequently travel the route first to stake out land and then return to get their families. Sometimes they were able to persuade entire villages to travel with them. Sometimes, if you read the histories of the churches in America, you will see entire congregations moving across mountains and the experience molding them into a solid unit in another area. I also have a book, "The Christianizing of America," that gives solid history on the denominations and how they took "free" people--free from government, religion, and social mores in the new unsettled areas-- and created a Christian nation. That was written by Jon Butler and won awards for his history. Well worth purchasing, one of those few books I won't let go. Oh gee, I do go on. If there is anything specific I can help you with, I'll try, but you do need to study the history of migration before and after the Revolution. There are many maps available, some really simple showing "roads" but not particularly in conjunction with waterways. That is the perfect map, but it would be complicated. It can't show the shallows or the falls or the white water in the rivers, or the suddenly humongous sheer wall that has to be skirted or the fault that has to be scrambled up by sheer physical effort. Shirley and some of my husband's relatives died on the river crossing from KY to OH Territory. **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)

I answered privately, giving you my exact email address. [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) That should work. Thanks for the compliment. Now -- how to live up to it? <grin> Shirley Maynard Hampton, VA **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)

In a message dated 6/15/2008 8:32:43 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: One of my husband's ancestors spoke to his children and grandchildren of his passage over the mountains from Augusta Co., VA to Bracken Co., KY as a 19 year old...traveling so slowly they would send back to the last stopping place Oh my, he was just a child of 10 years, not 19. My fingers took over my brain. Shirley Maynard Hampton, VA. **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)

In a message dated 6/14/2008 7:24:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: By 1792, Elizabeth and children are in Logan Co., KY. Was there a good road between Westmoreland and Cumberland Co. You do need some good maps of migration routes. My ABRAHAMs traveled that route prior to the American Revolution and used the Ohio River to complete their travel to Kentucky, then later simply (a tremendously dangerous trip) crossed the river into Ohio Territory and by 1811 had purchased land in Indiana Territory. The general history of that period is fascinating, the travails and the triumphs. I have a book that explains the southern route, The Great Wagon Road, from eastern colonial PA to the valleys of western colonial VA and around the mountains across the land the natives still claimed. It also talks about the Cumberland Gap. One of my husband's ancestors spoke to his children and grandchildren of his passage over the mountains from Augusta Co., VA to Bracken Co., KY as a 19 year old...traveling so slowly they would send back to the last stopping place to get an ember for that day's fire, dismantling the wagon and hauling it by hand up the side of a large hill/mountain (that day they traveled 3 feet, he said). Lewis Albert Harding wrote the official history book on Decatur Co., IN and wrote his grandfather's stories. Simple stories by simple people, not the rich and famous, give us a better glimpse into our American experiences. There were so many more of us, grin. I do envy the experience you will have learning this history. It's like listening to Mozart's "Hallelujah Chorus" for the first time or seeing Michelangelo's "David." Shirley Maynard Hampton, VA **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)

I should have stated that the link below is "THE HISTORY OF WESTMORELAND COUNTY" written in 1906 by John Boucher and John Jordon. It covers a lot of history including the formation of the county and towns, Hannastown, blockhouses , the revolution, civil war etc. There are 45 chapters. www.pa-roots.com~westmoreland/historyproject/vol1index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "laney" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 7:36 PM Subject: Re: [PAWESTMO] Early court records question > Sorry the link should be > www.pa-roots.com/~westmoreland/historyproject/vol1index.html > I put a comma were it should have been a period . Sorry about that > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "laney" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 7:26 PM > Subject: Re: [PAWESTMO] Early court records question > > >> Try this link it is the History Of Westmoreland County it covers a lot >> of >> interesting subjects >> >> www.pa-roots,com~westmoreland/historyproject/vol1index.html >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Stephanie" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 12:41 PM >> Subject: [PAWESTMO] Early court records question >> >> >>> Good Morning, Could someone tell he what records are available at the >>> Westmoreland Courthouse around 1776? I have a will with that date and >>> am >>> trying to find if there are any "orphan's court" records where guardians >>> would be appt. for the minor children. Any help is appreciated. Is >>> there >>> a professional researcher in the area?? Stephanie in Oregon >>> "It is not in the stars to hold our destiny but in ourselves." >>> William Shakespeare >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Ellen, Ok was just checking in. jamie -----Original Message----- From: Ellen <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 10:35 pm Subject: Re: [PAWESTMO] The Birth of Westmoreland County Dear Jamie, No time to look at what I wanted to get in to yet. Will let you know when I do. I did check Hoffman & he's not there. It will take some time to go through the cemeteries. Ellen ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Shirley, Thank you, What is the name of the book about the great wagon road that you mentioned? And that brings up another question. In about 1786 Hugh Gibbs is paid for guarding a group of people going to KY through the Cumberland Gap. But I would have thought it was easier to just float down the Ohio River and then over to Logan Co. Perhaps he went through the CG and then went and got his Mother and siblings. Stephanie ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 6:31 AM Subject: Re: [PAWESTMO] more on early record question > > In a message dated 6/14/2008 7:24:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > By 1792, Elizabeth and children > are in Logan Co., KY. Was there a good road between Westmoreland and > Cumberland Co. > > > You do need some good maps of migration routes. My ABRAHAMs traveled > that > route prior to the American Revolution and used the Ohio River to complete > their travel to Kentucky, then later simply (a tremendously dangerous > trip) > crossed the river into Ohio Territory and by 1811 had purchased land in > Indiana > Territory. > The general history of that period is fascinating, the travails and the > triumphs. I have a book that explains the southern route, The Great Wagon > Road, > from eastern colonial PA to the valleys of western colonial VA and around > the > mountains across the land the natives still claimed. It also talks about > the Cumberland Gap. > > One of my husband's ancestors spoke to his children and grandchildren of > his > passage over the mountains from Augusta Co., VA to Bracken Co., KY as a 19 > year old...traveling so slowly they would send back to the last stopping > place > to get an ember for that day's fire, dismantling the wagon and hauling it > by > hand up the side of a large hill/mountain (that day they traveled 3 feet, > he > said). Lewis Albert Harding wrote the official history book on Decatur > Co., > IN and wrote his grandfather's stories. > > Simple stories by simple people, not the rich and famous, give us a better > glimpse into our American experiences. There were so many more of us, > grin. > > I do envy the experience you will have learning this history. It's like > listening to Mozart's "Hallelujah Chorus" for the first time or seeing > Michelangelo's "David." > > Shirley Maynard > Hampton, VA > > > > > **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best > 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Sorry. When it loads there will be another link that says McKeesport html. Click on that and then click on the picture of the old house, the information will be there. Marilynn

Do a Google search and put in McKeesport college archives. When it loads there will be a picture of an old house on the right had side. Click on the picture and it will tell you what it was. Hope this helps. Marilynn

Someone contacted me a few weeks ago asking if I ever knew of a children's home in McKeesport. At the time no inquiry proved fruitful but just recently I discovered, through an obit in 1929 that there was one in Dravosburg, which is very close to McKeesport. It was called "Queen Esther Home For Children." I have no idea when it started or when it closed. I'm hoping that putting the info on the sites proves fruitful in that the person might read it. Ellen Ballas

Dear Jamie, No time to look at what I wanted to get in to yet. Will let you know when I do. I did check Hoffman & he's not there. It will take some time to go through the cemeteries. Ellen

Ms. May, I would like to inquire about a few subjects that your vast Westmoreland knowledge may have some clues. I'd rather not bother the list with my inquiries. I've attempted several times to E-mail you directly, but they won't go through. If you are willing for me to consult with you directly, please E-mail me directly. Thank you, A former Pennsylvanian, also now a Virginian Shirley Silverman [email protected]

Ellen, Hey did you ever find anything on Daniel Hough (b.1806)? I didn't hear back from ya. jamie -----Original Message----- From: Ellen <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 6:43 pm Subject: [PAWESTMO] The Birth of Westmoreland County Westmoreland County was formed on February 26, 1773 as approved by the courts, which I have references to on hand regarding the Act Actually, in 1750 it was a contained in a large portion of Cumberland County, as was Bedford County, which was formed in 1771 from Cumberland also. This should clear up the matter of the date the county was formed. Ellen Ballas ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This site shows how the counties were formed. Click on the dates to show how they changed. http://www.familyhistory101.com/maps/pa_cf.html Dawne

Hi Stephanie, You can go to the Pitt Digital Research Library. http://digital.library.pitt.edu/pittsburgh/ Click on their Full Text Collection and put History of Westmoreland County in the search box. Several books will come up which you can read on line. Dawne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 8:24 PM Subject: [PAWESTMO] more on early record question > Thank you to everyone trying to help. I live in Oregon so have no idea > what the country side was like or the history of the area. Does anyone > know > of a good local history book that would give me some insight to the > settlement?? > The family I am researching is GIBBS, also GIB, GIBB, etc. I have the > will > of Robert Gibbs dated 1776, Westmoreland County. The ex. are his wife > Elizabeth and son Hugh. I am interested in trying to locate records from > the Orphan's Court, as he had young children. In 1780 Elizabeth and Hugh > are in Cumberland Co. and sell the land in Westmoreland. There are two > Hugh > Gibbs I believe in Cum. Co. at that time. By 1792, Elizabeth and > children > are in Logan Co., KY. Was there a good road between Westmoreland and > Cumberland Co. I believe Robert and family may have lived in Cumberland > Co., even Lancaster before Cum. county was divided, went to West. co., and > after he died the widow and children moved back to Cum. County. I anxious > await any comments from people familiar with the area and what records are > available. Thank you very much. Stephanie, Oregon > > "It is not in the stars to hold our destiny but in ourselves." > William Shakespeare > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

>I live in Oregon so have no idea >what the country side was like or the history of the area. >DY Hi I would suggest: "History of the County of Westmoreland (Pennsylvania)" by George Dallas Albert (L.H. Everts & Company, Philadelphia, 1882, reprint by Closson Press, Apollo Pennsylvania, 1991). It is a tremendous volume detailing all aspects of Westmoreland history as well as stories about the original settlers and persons of importance or prominence within the county prior to the early 1880s. And it has an all name index at the rear. Phil Phil Knox <[email protected]> My Web Page: http://home.earthlink.net/~pknox/ NOTE: E-mail and attachments are automatically scanned by ESET NOD 32 Antivirus software.

Sorry the link should be www.pa-roots.com/~westmoreland/historyproject/vol1index.html I put a comma were it should have been a period . Sorry about that ----- Original Message ----- From: "laney" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 7:26 PM Subject: Re: [PAWESTMO] Early court records question > Try this link it is the History Of Westmoreland County it covers a lot of > interesting subjects > > www.pa-roots,com~westmoreland/historyproject/vol1index.html > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stephanie" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 12:41 PM > Subject: [PAWESTMO] Early court records question > > >> Good Morning, Could someone tell he what records are available at the >> Westmoreland Courthouse around 1776? I have a will with that date and am >> trying to find if there are any "orphan's court" records where guardians >> would be appt. for the minor children. Any help is appreciated. Is >> there >> a professional researcher in the area?? Stephanie in Oregon >> "It is not in the stars to hold our destiny but in ourselves." >> William Shakespeare >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Try this link it is the History Of Westmoreland County it covers a lot of interesting subjects www.pa-roots,com~westmoreland/historyproject/vol1index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 12:41 PM Subject: [PAWESTMO] Early court records question > Good Morning, Could someone tell he what records are available at the > Westmoreland Courthouse around 1776? I have a will with that date and am > trying to find if there are any "orphan's court" records where guardians > would be appt. for the minor children. Any help is appreciated. Is there > a professional researcher in the area?? Stephanie in Oregon > "It is not in the stars to hold our destiny but in ourselves." > William Shakespeare > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Shirley, I really enjoyed your article. Thank you so much for sharing. Times were so hard. It was a real struggle just to stay alive...... Helen -------------- Original message -------------- From: [email protected] > > In a message dated 6/13/2008 8:54:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > I found this listing, but nothing for that specific time period > > > I know that in the south the years and decades following the end of the > Civil War was devastating. The elderly and the children and the newborns had a > difficult time surviving. My great great grandfathers were not doctors or > pharmacists but they were educated and when they moved to the hills in > Arkansas, > they carried books with them that enabled them to doctor and prepare > medication. My grandmother gathered herbs and roots for them. > > The north had a growing immigrant population from the turmoil in Europe in > that period. Many immigrants carried the Old World diseases with them. > Sanitation in the larger cities was almost non-existent. The rural areas > depended > mainly on "natural" sanitation, bury the garbage or feed it to the hogs in > the back yard or the chickens close by, lime the outhouses, rain to wash away > waste. > We washed the jars in hot soapy water to preserve food, but we used the > boiling method, not the pressure method. Some women would "sample" the canned > food before trusting it to her family. Others didn't and some died from > botulism. > We mustn't forget that trains with their dirty smoke ran in Westmoreland Co. > at that time. My father had black lung disease, and I, a child who lived > next to the track in a coal mining town for 10 years have had lung problems, > probably black lung, the doctors say. > > My stepmother told of the time her mother deliberately sold a cow she knew > had TB before the symptoms were noticeable. That meat was sold to the public. > Along with the milk prior to butchering. Her daughter said she felt shame > for what her mother did to other people, but her mother, an immigrant, said > they did it in the Old Country. > > My grandmother in Indian Territory lost 3 of her 6 children to diphtheria > from the "sweetest water in the world." She sold that water to others without > wells.. > > I've read a dozen or more civil war pension applications and many of the > ailments may have been contracted in the south and carried north or may just as > likely have been fostered in the north. Parasites were in both places. > > I know for a fact some outhouses were built uphill from the homes. Lime was > used, but the ground water would have been contaminated. I can still see > the outdoor pump in line with the outhouse 30 or so feet above it. > > My father contracted malaria from a nephew who returned from the Asian > theater with raging fevers (to the point of losing his memory for several > months) > some years after he was supposedly cured of it. This nephew died within the > last 10 years complaining of "worms crawling out of the pores of his face." > He would awaken and find tiny white strings on his pillow. He carried > something back with him from the islands that incubated for decades. > > So it wouldn't have taken a world or even a local epidemic to have killed a > lot of people in a certain decade. > Well water contaminated in one neighborhood, not in another. > Doctors unable to diagnose the new symptoms or not have the right medicine. > Proximity of ill people and lack of sanitation. > Contamination from new places and new diseases, many without the immunity > that a lifetime exposure would have helped fight. > > We have to add air contamination now. The separate fires in the swamps in > North Carolina and in the Dismal Swamp in Virginia have activated my allergy > to wood fire smoke. Many have been warned to stay indoors under air > conditioners, the elderly, children, heart patients, and those with asthma. > > It's just in my lifetime that polio has been controlled. Our parents were > terrified of it for us. One of my friends did get it. My children were born > just as the vaccine was found (a second stepmother, a nurse, was a guinea pig > for Dr. Salk and did get a mild form of polio). > > But we do have increased environmental issues, poor sanitation in the foods > we import, proximity to people, ability to travel to other places and carry > our germs with us and pick up others' germs, acid rain, new viruses.. > > Don't particularly look for a large epidemic (other than the Spanish Flu) to > explain a several deaths in a family or neighborhood. It could have been > something as simple as a well gone bad or a woods on fire or eating spoiled > food. > Shirley Maynard > Hampton, VA > > > > > > > **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best > 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message