Hi Ellen, When I typed the church minutes (online now), I noted "a" Mary Hand was quite "active" in her younger years. This Mary had moved at one point to another church then back. Is this the same person you are talking about? A guy researching that Mary Hand wrote to me with the observation that Mary HAND might be the same as a Mary Hahn (spelled in a CW Pension for a man who possibly had a child with Mary Hand or Hahn). The researcher pointed out that the name "Mary Hand" is close to the name I have, is in the right time frame, and the right time to have had a child born in 1837, and given that the church records indicate she had strayed from her husband several times. So let me tell you my (long) Mary Hahn story and see if you think the 1815 Mary Hand (see obit at end of email) might be a possibility. In the Denman family, there were many uses of the names "Alpheus" and "Joshua" as first and middle names. Denman apparently came from NJ pre-1800 or so. PECK also came from NJ & is related to DENMAN. Part of the Denman line moved on, but part stayed in Amity, Washington Co PA. (Let me see if I can remember which first name was used earliest--LOL) Joshua Denman had sons: Alpheus Denman ** born 1815-ish Joshua W. Denman (his middle name supposedly links back to the families in NJ) Alpheus Denman b. 1815-ish got a girl Mary Hahn pregnant, according to her grandchildren. The baby, Joshua Alpheus Denman, was born 1837 and at some point he was given to his grandfather, Joshua Denman in Amity to raise. Joshua W. Denman, the uncle to Joshua Alpheus Denman, later married a Mary also. Joshua Alpheus Denman grew up and married Maria "Myra" Anthony--these are my 4th great-grandparents. They had 5 children who stayed around Wash Co. Joshua Alpheus Denman left for the CW (after he ignored 1 government demand for his time) leaving Maria either pregnant with baby George or "George" had just been conceived. Joshua Alpheus spent his CW time at Pittsburgh as a cook or cook assistant, went out on maybe 1 battle. Maria could not read or write so she had her unmarried sister, Eliza Anthony (who is not the same as their other sister, Elizabeth Anthony), write and answer the letters between Joshua A. and wife Maria. Joshua A. returned home and.... uncertain how long he was home before he ran off in the night--- and the sister Eliza also disappeared that night. Eliza and Joshua A. supposedly went to Pittsburgh and got married (no records that early)-- but Joshua never got a divorce (not a Law yet)-- and I'm not sure Joshua A. and Eliza ever really married or not or if he used his real name Denman at the 2nd "marriage." Next, Joshua A. and Eliza make their way to Ohio and he assumed the name "Andrew J. Donley" and Andrew J. Donley and Eliza Anthony Donley produced 2 children in this second family. There are living descendants still in Ohio today that I met; they knew nothing about "Andrew J. Donley" family background. Back in Washington County PA, Joshua A. had either left his wife Maria and kids in Pittsburg(h) or in Washington County and she, understandably, broke down. Her father, John Anthony, either came to get her in Pittsburgh--or took her into his home from her home in Washington Co (2 stories, not sure which is true). Father and Mother John Anthony and Elizabeth Septer Anthony had 12 or 13 adult children so they tried to help Maria "Myra." But eventually, she had to put one of her children at age 12-13 into a neighbor's home to work -- this was Jane Catherine Denman, my 3rd great grandmother. The older children were already married, and Maria only had to care for George the baby. By 1870-1880 Maria married Jacob "Jake" Miller -- I know nothing of Jake. Wish I did. The Gov't created the CW Pension (what, 1906?). In 1907, Andrew J. Donley ( a.ka. Denman) and Eliza Anthony applied for his Pension; but first, he had to prove his identity! (serves the scoundrel right-- loving laughter here). Both at first lied and said neither had been married before-- then, Eliza wrote a bitter letter trash-talking her sister, Maria. (In my opinion, Eliza had to justify running off with Joshua so she blamed it all on Maria.) So the gov't sent Examiners from DC and from Ohio to places in Ohio and Washington Co PA to get depositions from every living family member---but Maria had died the year before! So they interviewed the remaining brothers and sisters (which were few) of Eliza and Maria Anthony. Samuel G. Anthony (the oldest child), an old man by then, told of remembering that Maria (his mom) always took them as young children to visit their "Grandmother Hahn" in Pittsburgh. Now, there were many "Mary HAHN" women in Pittsburgh 1860s-- so it could have been one of them. Samuel said they stopped seeing Mary Hahn when he was still young...and they lost contact...he knew nothing else. Now, back to Washington Co's Mary HAND, married (also) to a man named Joshua (lol)... As I said, church minutes stated she and Joshua Hand withdrew from the church and went to Pittsburg(h) for a while-- within a short time, they came back and became members again in that same church. Is it possible Mary HAHN, grandmother of the 5 Denman children, was Mary HAND married to Joshua Hand? Mary Hand was reprimanded many times by the church for straying from her marriage to Joshua Hand... and Joshua Hand was reprimanded for his drinking. Is it possible that Alpheus (dad to Joshua Alpheus) Denman met Mary Hand during one of those times she strayed? Or were the stories true that Mary was an unmarried young woman when she got pregnant by Alpheus? Joshua Alpheus thought his mother's maiden name was Mary Beech. By the way, the father Alpheus supposedly "went West" when he learned Mary ___ (possibly nee BEECH) was pregnant. This was told to son, Joshua Alpheus Denman aka Andrew J. Donley when Joshua A. was a teenager, still living at his grandfather's house in Amity PA. Just to round out this story... the uncle of Joshua Alpheus Denman aka Andrew J. Donley was, again, Joshua W. Denman. Joshua W. lived out his life also in Amity PA--was very old when he died. He married Mary (I forget maiden). They had a son, Mark Denman, who went to W&J and became a Reverend, and went to Massachusetts where he made a family. Also, to finish the story on Joshua Alpheus Denman aka Andrew J. Donley and wife Eliza Anthony Donley, Joshua did prove his identity and got a pension (file 3 inches thick, thank goodness for me!). But Eliza's later Widow's request was denied (boy was she probably mad and bitter) because MARIA was his only legal WIFE. (serves Eliza right) I'm missing a LOT of information on ALL of these people. I know Denman and Peck came from NJ but I don't understand the relationships that make Joshua Peck a grandfather to one of the early Denman in Washington Co PA. Which one? I don't have death dates for anyone except Joshua Alpheus Denman aka Andrew J. Donley. I'd love to know the date Maria "Myra" Anthony Denman Miller died (sometime between 1880-1906). I have some of the 12-13 Anthony siblings figured out---but several died leaving children--who were just absorbed into Anthony siblings' families (what a mess to figure out). Who exactly was Grandmother Mary HAHN? If truly spelled "Hahn", then what HAHN did she marry and when? Was this the same person as Mary HAND in Washington Co who lived for a time in Pittsburg(h)? The obit of Mary Hand (below) says the woman was "a unique character" which fits the impression given in the Church Minutes of her younger years -- quite a spunky and willful young woman. I'd love for anyone who can help me sort out these families. It gets confusing with all these tidbits of info. Worse when 2 Anthony girls married 2 "Abraham Bails" (2 different men)... and 2 Anthony girls one married a Mr. Black and another married a Mr. White... and just the sheer turmoil these Denman, Anthony, etc. families seemed to live through during the 1860s to 1900. Is Mary Hand and Mary Hahn one in the same person??????????, possibly nee BEECH, and later, wife of Joshua Hand. Was HAND the mother of Joshua Alpheus Denman? Where did father Alpheus Denman go? There's one Alpheus in the Steubenville area-- was this land for the father Alpheus Denman?? or was it for Joshua Alpheus Denman? Did father Alpheus Denman later marry and have a family--or did he die young with no relatives around him?? Does anyone else have Denman relatives who have a Hand or Hahn family relationship in the Pittsburgh or Washington area? So, ideas anyone? LOLOL Judy (cross post to Washington and Allegheny lists) On 11/15/07, Ellen <ellen@b-n-s.com> wrote: > > Hi Listers, > > I recently obtained the following obit that I know has some > relationship > to my daughter-in-law's family on the Hands line. I would like anyone who > > is involved with this surname & might have some connection to her or those > of the name buried in the Taylor cemetery to get in touch with me. This > means she was born in 1815 & would be one of the earlier of the name in > the > Washington County area. Thank You, Ellen Ballas > > > > The Daily News, McKeesport, PA > > Monday Evening, March 20, 1915 - Pg. 4 > > MRS. MARY A. HANDS > > Many residents of this city will be sorry to hear of the death of Mrs. > Mary Ann Hands, of Coal Center, who for years has been a unique character > in > this section. Mrs. Hands was born 100 years ago the thirtieth of last > May, > at Pike Run, Washington county. She resided there until 26 years ago, > when > she took up her residence with her son, W. D. Hands, who is now residing > at > Coal Center, where she died. Mrs. Hands was the widow of Joshua Hands, > who > died September 19, 1901, at the ripe old age of 99 years. Mr. Hands was a > > resident of Pike Run when the old wooden bridge, lately torn down to make > way for the new steel structure, which was erected, connecting Bridgeport > and West Brownsville. Mr. Hands was employed as a carpenter on the > construction gang which built the bridge and before that time, when > stepping > stones were used to cross the Monongahela river, he was employed blasting > stone which was used in the construction of the abutments for the old > bridge, and brought them into town. > > Mrs. Hands was mostly called "grandma" by everyone. She had passed a > grand old record as she passed into the history of by-gone days. She died > March 25 and was buried at the old Taylor cemetery on the Washington pike. > > She is survived by two sons and a daughter; Mrs. Jennie Keffer, of > California, Pa.; Isaiah Hands, of Brownsville, Pa., and Wills Hands, of > Coal > Center, Pa. She was grandmother to ten grandchildren and six > great-grandchildren. She was a relative of Harvey and Walter Carter, of > this city, and Charles M. Shepard, of Glassport. The Rev. Mr. Walker, of > California C. P. church, conducted her funeral. > > ==== -- Washington County PA Websites: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~florian/ http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~florian/ http://freepages.religions.rootsweb.com/~florian/ http://www.rootsweb.com/~pawashin/