Christoper & Joel - I see I've corresponded with Chris before, so don't have anything new on these families, and looks like Joel has it right. The only thing I can add is that Clarence Morton Pate, Sr married a second time to a Nell (maiden name unknown) And I'm not sure Jeremiah Pate (c 1745-1797) was married to Mary BENDER. There is a marriage of Jeremiah to a Bender, but I'm not sure they are one and the same. This Jeremiah Pate died 1797 in Botetourt Co, VA. These families are on my Pate webpage under the Desc Chart P-64, but think it only goes down to John Pate md Jennett Crawford. If I can help further, let me know. Jinks Pate Lee jinksp@juno.com Pate Webpage http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~patefamily/index.htm My Direct Line: Desc Charts P-64 & P-16