Mike, As Laynie pointed out, we could not see your attachments, but they are likely in the links that Laynie provided for you. As I stated in my paper on Sir John: "Though there are several Pate coats of arms, we are most familiar with the one of the Pate family of Sysonby and Eye-Kettleby. These arms are described as a white or silver shield with three black Roman text "R"s. There are at least two related variations of these arms, while two others appear to be completely unrelated. These will be further discussed in a later paper." I did not discuss the other arms any further, since my paper was focused on Sir John, and the arms described were used by him. My paper also discusses the crest and motto. In the links that Laynie sent, only the first one shows the "r"s correctly, according to my findings. In all the drawings and descriptions of the arms in John Nichols' books, they are always shown in what we call "lower-case". If anyone is aware of any earlier representations of any Pate coat of arms than those in Nichols' work, I would very interested in seeing them. Nichols' books are dated 1795-1811, and the drawings are of the arms as inscribed on the memorials in the Melton Mowbray church, c. 1600-1680. There are other sources which I will refer to in another paper. By the way, for any who may be interested, I have prepared a "pdf" copy of my paper on Sir John Pate. I made some slight changes in style, and the formatting looks much better. If anyone wishes a copy, send your request to my personal email address. I might note that the "Pait" variation, at least as it applies to current members of the Pate DNA Project, has American origins, maybe in the 1700s, with several unproven theories of explanation. In any case, DNA analysis has proven that they are all members of the Thoroughgood Pate family line, with only one exception. A. J. ____________________________________________________ Date: Sat, 29 May 2010 16:18:23 -0700 (PDT) From: DMPate <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [PATE] Latin translation needed for Pate memorial in MeltonMowbray church The attached are the two variations of the Pate-Pait Family Coat of Arms that I've been able to locate!? Does manyone have any mire crest(s), coats of arms, symbols, emblems, etc that represent the Pate Clans?