Laynie, Thanks for all the effort you made on translating the inscription. It can be fun but also frustrating. The complexity lies in determining which meaning of a word to use. Of course, we have the same problem with English. Pick a common word in English, then look in a dictionary at all the possible meanings it could have. For example, a former president once famously said, "It depends on what the meaning of 'is' is." We probably should wait until a real Latin scholar translates this, but knowing the context of the inscription and using your work, you can get a general sense of its meaning. The Latin phrase "Johanne Pate (de Sysonby in comitatu Leicestriensi) baronettu" can be translated as "John Pate (of Sysonby in the county of Leicester) baronet". There are tributes to both John and Elizabeth. The date 1659 refers to the year of Sir John's death and his burial at St. Giles near London. I think it may be saying that he was 67 years old at his death, which would make him born in 1592. It also has the date of Elizabeth's death as 1628 at age 37, which would make the year of her birth as 1591. As contributors of the memorial, both daughters' names are noted, and it appears the other children are noted in total. It ends with the sentiment that their bodies are awaiting the Resurrection. There is also another arms and briefer Latin inscription on the wall of the same church for Edward and Katherine Pate of Kettleby, but I'm not going to post it until this one has been translated. It would just muddy the water at this point. There have been several offers of possible assistance from some true Latin scholars. Hopefully we will soon see what they produce. I appreciate your interest and your contrbutions to the Listserve. A. J. ________________________________________ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 00:59:03 -0400 From: "ThorPateLine" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [PATE] Latin translation for Pate memorial in Melton Mowbray AJ, I would love to know the actual translation if you can get it, but I figured out the gist of it by translating word for word using a couple of sites: http://www.stars21.com/translator/latin_to_english.html (with all sources checked on the left) and http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/RG/guide/WLLatin1.asp#a Here are my results - which actually was kind of fun to do! :) Laynie

AJ, I actually learned something about the older 'ancient' Latin as I was doing that - there were many words that had several masculine and feminine uses - so as I was looking them up, I had to assume whether it was discussing the male or female. I love working with stuff like this as I am an avid crossword puzzle buff - so I gleaned some knowledge for solving those as well. I am really looking forward to seeing the work that a true Latin scholar provides us with! Laynie ----- Original Message ----- From: "AJ" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 8:41 AM Subject: [PATE] Latin translation for Pate memorial -- Laynie Laynie, Thanks for all the effort you made on translating the inscription. It can be fun but also frustrating. The complexity lies in determining which meaning of a word to use. Of course, we have the same problem with English. Pick a common word in English, then look in a dictionary at all the possible meanings it could have. For example, a former president once famously said, "It depends on what the meaning of 'is' is." We probably should wait until a real Latin scholar translates this, but knowing the context of the inscription and using your work, you can get a general sense of its meaning. The Latin phrase "Johanne Pate (de Sysonby in comitatu Leicestriensi) baronettu" can be translated as "John Pate (of Sysonby in the county of Leicester) baronet". There are tributes to both John and Elizabeth. The date 1659 refers to the year of Sir John's death and his burial at St. Giles near London. I think it may be saying that he was 67 years old at his death, which would make him born in 1592. It also has the date of Elizabeth's death as 1628 at age 37, which would make the year of her birth as 1591. As contributors of the memorial, both daughters' names are noted, and it appears the other children are noted in total. It ends with the sentiment that their bodies are awaiting the Resurrection. There is also another arms and briefer Latin inscription on the wall of the same church for Edward and Katherine Pate of Kettleby, but I'm not going to post it until this one has been translated. It would just muddy the water at this point. There have been several offers of possible assistance from some true Latin scholars. Hopefully we will soon see what they produce. I appreciate your interest and your contrbutions to the Listserve. A. J. ________________________________________ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 00:59:03 -0400 From: "ThorPateLine" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [PATE] Latin translation for Pate memorial in Melton Mowbray AJ, I would love to know the actual translation if you can get it, but I figured out the gist of it by translating word for word using a couple of sites: http://www.stars21.com/translator/latin_to_english.html (with all sources checked on the left) and http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/RG/guide/WLLatin1.asp#a Here are my results - which actually was kind of fun to do! :) Laynie ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

So sorry AJ -- I did it again! AJ, I actually learned something about the older 'ancient' Latin as I was doing that - there were many words that had several masculine and feminine uses - so as I was looking them up, I had to assume whether it was discussing the male or female. I love working with stuff like this as I am an avid crossword puzzle buff - so I gleaned some knowledge for solving those as well. I am really looking forward to seeing the work that a true Latin scholar provides us with! Laynie ----- Original Message ----- From: "DonnaAnnRoberts" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [PATE] Latin translation for Pate memorial -- Laynie AJ, I actually learned something about the older 'ancient' Latin as I was doing that - there were many words that had several masculine and feminine uses - so as I was looking them up, I had to assume whether it was discussing the male or female. I love working with stuff like this as I am an avid crossword puzzle buff - so I gleaned some knowledge for solving those as well. I am really looking forward to seeing the work that a true Latin scholar provides us with! Laynie ----- Original Message ----- From: "AJ" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 8:41 AM Subject: [PATE] Latin translation for Pate memorial -- Laynie Laynie, Thanks for all the effort you made on translating the inscription. It can be fun but also frustrating. The complexity lies in determining which meaning of a word to use. Of course, we have the same problem with English. Pick a common word in English, then look in a dictionary at all the possible meanings it could have. For example, a former president once famously said, "It depends on what the meaning of 'is' is." We probably should wait until a real Latin scholar translates this, but knowing the context of the inscription and using your work, you can get a general sense of its meaning. The Latin phrase "Johanne Pate (de Sysonby in comitatu Leicestriensi) baronettu" can be translated as "John Pate (of Sysonby in the county of Leicester) baronet". There are tributes to both John and Elizabeth. The date 1659 refers to the year of Sir John's death and his burial at St. Giles near London. I think it may be saying that he was 67 years old at his death, which would make him born in 1592. It also has the date of Elizabeth's death as 1628 at age 37, which would make the year of her birth as 1591. As contributors of the memorial, both daughters' names are noted, and it appears the other children are noted in total. It ends with the sentiment that their bodies are awaiting the Resurrection. There is also another arms and briefer Latin inscription on the wall of the same church for Edward and Katherine Pate of Kettleby, but I'm not going to post it until this one has been translated. It would just muddy the water at this point. There have been several offers of possible assistance from some true Latin scholars. Hopefully we will soon see what they produce. I appreciate your interest and your contrbutions to the Listserve. A. J. ________________________________________ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 00:59:03 -0400 From: "ThorPateLine" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [PATE] Latin translation for Pate memorial in Melton Mowbray AJ, I would love to know the actual translation if you can get it, but I figured out the gist of it by translating word for word using a couple of sites: http://www.stars21.com/translator/latin_to_english.html (with all sources checked on the left) and http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/RG/guide/WLLatin1.asp#a Here are my results - which actually was kind of fun to do! :) Laynie ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message