John, You wrote: "I believe that the majority of Pate descendants are of English descent; however, a few did come from the land up north. Could they have been run out of Scotland by the English Pates?" Your question is confusing to me. Could you explain a little more about your reasoning? I have seen mentions of "Pate" as a shortened form of "Patrick" in some surname dictionaries, but have never seen anything very convincing. One old dictionary did mention that this was used in Scotland, but did not clarify whether as a given name or surname or both. I have seen Pate used as a given name even in writings of hundreds of years ago, and there are also more modern uses as a given name, though I suspect those are based on the surname of friends and relatives. In any case, it is a fascinating search to determine the origin of our surname, which will never be proven conclusively, but your suggestion would certainly be one of the possibilities. Then, though not highly probable in my opinion, our surname could have had several different origins, in different regions or countries. I have the "shorter" edition (only two large volumes) of the Oxford English Dictionary, and its definition of "pate" does not mention any connection to Patrick. It does state that the word is from the Middle English period, that is c. 1150 to c. 1500, though its origin is unknown. If anyone owns or has access to the complete 20-volume edition of OED ("the definitive record of the English language"), please post its complete "pate" entry on the Listserve or send to me privately. There are some surprising definitions of "pate" there and elsewhere. I have not done any research in Scotland, so know nothing about the history of the Pate family there. What is the earliest use of Pate as a surname that you have been able to find in Scotland? Also Ireland and Wales if you have them. We currently have nearly 140 members in the Pate DNA Project. Only six list their most distant documented ancestors as being born outside the United States -- three in England and one each in Scotland, Wales, and France. Two of the three in England still live there. Obviously, we could gain a great deal of knowledge about our family origins and emigrations if we could only get more members from England and other parts of the former British Empire and other countries in Europe. For all subscribers of the Listserve, any help in gaining new members from the UK would be greatly appreciated. Several times I have made individual direct mailings to Pate's living in the UK, Australia, South Africa, etc. (using email addresses obtained from sites like Zoominfo), probably 50 to 100 each time, and I can't recall getting a single response. I always expected that I would get a few responses at least, if nothing more than as a simple courtesy, but I guess my expectations are too high. The apparent total lack of interest is puzzling. In research for my paper on Sir John Pate, as I've mentioned before, I gathered a lot of material on the Pate family in England. I intend to attempt developing genealogies for the different Pate families in England, establishing whatever links I can between them, then links to the Pate's emigrating to colonial Virginia. That will likely take some time. Before that, I want to post the information I have compiled on the possible origins of the Pate surname and its earliest use. A. J. Pate Group Administrator Pate DNA Project _________________________________________ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 07:58:21 -0400 From: "John Robinson" <[email protected]> Subject: [PATE] Scotland, Clans, and the Pates Basically, if your surname is on a Clan list of seps, for $20 you can join. Pretty simple! If you've never been to a "Clan Games Event", I highly recommend. They have an annual event in Green Cove Springs, Florida, in February. I've attended the past four years. Lots of fun. http://neflgames.com/ I believe that the majority of Pate descendants are of English descent; however, a few did come from the land up north. Could they have been run out of Scotland by the English Pates? I really enjoy the website, ScotClans, the tab "What's My Clan" offers a Surname Search feature. I've enjoyed searching all my Great Great Generation surnames, five out of eight can be associated with a Clan. If you search "Pate" (Pate is short for "Patrick"), you find that it's a sep of Clan "MacLabhruinn" or "MacLaren". The Clan History from this site starts with: "The name of the clan MacLaren is known in Gaelic as "Clann mhic Labhrainn". The origins of the clan are shadowy and remain speculative, although one traditional account claims descent from Lorn, son of Erc, who landed in Argyll in A.D. 503." If you're interested in this clan, recommend visiting their website: Clan MacLaren Society of North America, LTD. http://www.clanmaclarenna.org/ J. Randall Lawson, President, 20205 Maple Leaf Court, Montgomery Village, Maryland 20879-1137 [email protected]

My Pate`s came from around Edinburgh Scotland ,namely George born 1760 married 1792 St, Cuthberts Edinburgh . Son George born 1791 Linlithgow Bo`ness and his son George born 1811 at Ratho and was a shoemaker . His sons John and George came to Australia c1860 . Thankyou John for the info about the Pate name . Laurie Thompson ----- Original Message ----- From: AJ To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 9:16 AM Subject: [PATE] Scotland, Clans, and the Pates John, You wrote: "I believe that the majority of Pate descendants are of English descent; however, a few did come from the land up north. Could they have been run out of Scotland by the English Pates?" Your question is confusing to me. Could you explain a little more about your reasoning? I have seen mentions of "Pate" as a shortened form of "Patrick" in some surname dictionaries, but have never seen anything very convincing. One old dictionary did mention that this was used in Scotland, but did not clarify whether as a given name or surname or both. I have seen Pate used as a given name even in writings of hundreds of years ago, and there are also more modern uses as a given name, though I suspect those are based on the surname of friends and relatives. In any case, it is a fascinating search to determine the origin of our surname, which will never be proven conclusively, but your suggestion would certainly be one of the possibilities. Then, though not highly probable in my opinion, our surname could have had several different origins, in different regions or countries. I have the "shorter" edition (only two large volumes) of the Oxford English Dictionary, and its definition of "pate" does not mention any connection to Patrick. It does state that the word is from the Middle English period, that is c. 1150 to c. 1500, though its origin is unknown. If anyone owns or has access to the complete 20-volume edition of OED ("the definitive record of the English language"), please post its complete "pate" entry on the Listserve or send to me privately. There are some surprising definitions of "pate" there and elsewhere. I have not done any research in Scotland, so know nothing about the history of the Pate family there. What is the earliest use of Pate as a surname that you have been able to find in Scotland? Also Ireland and Wales if you have them. We currently have nearly 140 members in the Pate DNA Project. Only six list their most distant documented ancestors as being born outside the United States -- three in England and one each in Scotland, Wales, and France. Two of the three in England still live there. Obviously, we could gain a great deal of knowledge about our family origins and emigrations if we could only get more members from England and other parts of the former British Empire and other countries in Europe. For all subscribers of the Listserve, any help in gaining new members from the UK would be greatly appreciated. Several times I have made individual direct mailings to Pate's living in the UK, Australia, South Africa, etc. (using email addresses obtained from sites like Zoominfo), probably 50 to 100 each time, and I can't recall getting a single response. I always expected that I would get a few responses at least, if nothing more than as a simple courtesy, but I guess my expectations are too high. The apparent total lack of interest is puzzling. In research for my paper on Sir John Pate, as I've mentioned before, I gathered a lot of material on the Pate family in England. I intend to attempt developing genealogies for the different Pate families in England, establishing whatever links I can between them, then links to the Pate's emigrating to colonial Virginia. That will likely take some time. Before that, I want to post the information I have compiled on the possible origins of the Pate surname and its earliest use. A. J. Pate Group Administrator Pate DNA Project _________________________________________ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 07:58:21 -0400 From: "John Robinson" <[email protected]> Subject: [PATE] Scotland, Clans, and the Pates Basically, if your surname is on a Clan list of seps, for $20 you can join. Pretty simple! If you've never been to a "Clan Games Event", I highly recommend. They have an annual event in Green Cove Springs, Florida, in February. I've attended the past four years. Lots of fun. http://neflgames.com/ I believe that the majority of Pate descendants are of English descent; however, a few did come from the land up north. Could they have been run out of Scotland by the English Pates? I really enjoy the website, ScotClans, the tab "What's My Clan" offers a Surname Search feature. I've enjoyed searching all my Great Great Generation surnames, five out of eight can be associated with a Clan. If you search "Pate" (Pate is short for "Patrick"), you find that it's a sep of Clan "MacLabhruinn" or "MacLaren". The Clan History from this site starts with: "The name of the clan MacLaren is known in Gaelic as "Clann mhic Labhrainn". The origins of the clan are shadowy and remain speculative, although one traditional account claims descent from Lorn, son of Erc, who landed in Argyll in A.D. 503." If you're interested in this clan, recommend visiting their website: Clan MacLaren Society of North America, LTD. http://www.clanmaclarenna.org/ J. Randall Lawson, President, 20205 Maple Leaf Court, Montgomery Village, Maryland 20879-1137 [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message