John Pate, b. c 1816 md Mary Isbell-Sloan, b, c 1818 TN Children: Minerva "Nerve" Pate b. c 1847 md Unknown Rebecca Ann Pate, b. 1857, d. 1899 md H J Ryan William Marcus "Billy" Pate, b. Sep 1858 AL md Susan Alice Bynum This is a strange family - The widow? is in 1860 1870 Marshall Co, AL, and some of the children are in 1880 Marshall Co, AL; John is said to have run off with one of his step-daus, a daughter of his wife Mary Isbell-Sloan and never heard from again. Minerva never married, but had several children who always went by the name Pate. I'd love to find descendants of this family to see what happened to John. Jinks

Is it possible, that Margery PATE b. 1782-83 VA is also the daughter of this Mathew Pate? She was born in VA, then lived in Greene Co, TN, then IL up to the 1860 Census. She married: HOLLOWAY about 1800. Her first child Jeremiah Holloway, b. abt 1805. Is this Mathew PATE, b. 1738-50 the spouse of (Ms.Dabney) or Anna DABNEY, as recorded on DAR records? Would their other children be: John, Anne N., Cornelius, Agness, Mary, Jeremiah (b. abt 1775-80), Mathew (abt 1780), Rhoda, Edmund, William and Nancy? If yes, then what was the source of this record? What would lead Elizabeth to be linked to this family, and was Margery (or name derivative) have been listed also? Since Margery married in 1800, she may have missed any source links to relationship here. Can anyone help?? Thanks..... CarolSue ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jinks Lee wrote: >Matthew Pate b. c 1735, d. 1809 Greene Co, TN >(No known wife) > >At least one child: >Jeremiah Pate b. c 1770 > >Deed Record 6 Mar 1809 shows Jeremiah Pate saw his >Father, Mathew Pate sign a deed with his mark > >ARE THESE ALSO CHILDREN OF MATTHEW PATE???? >Questions -- >A record in Madison Co, AL, 20 Dec 1832: To clear >title to slaves - Elizabeth M Pate, dau of Mathew Pate, > > >

Unknown Pate, b. c 1831 NC md Frances --, b. 1834 GA (Could this be Travis Pate who md Frances Wray???) Children: William H Pate, b.6 Nov 1852 GA, d. 8 Feb 1936 md Mary M Hancock Amelia Elizabeth Pate, b. 9 Jun 1855 GA, d. 17 Jun 1946 TX md John Caswell Todd Rebecca Jane Pate, b. 7 Mar 1858 GA, d. 26 Nov 1941 GA md William Lewis Reese The widow Frances Pate was in 1870 and 1880 Lee Co, AL. William H Pate moved from Lee Co, AL to Clay Co, GA by 1900. Jinks

Edward Pate b. c 1794, d. 1832 GA md (1) Unknown (2) Mary Perrin Fitzpatrick, b. c 1800 GA Children: Elizabeth Pate, b. c 1820, d. 1847 md William J Lawrence Abner W Pate, b. 1822 GA Joseph Boling Pate, b. c 1829 GA md Martha Jane Buchanan Thie family was in 1820 & 1830 Morgan Co, GA; 1850 Harris Co, GA (widow) Jinks

William Pate, b. c 1779, d. West Feliciana Par, LA md Abigail Robertson, b. c 1783 Children: David Pate, b. c 1804 Susan Pate, b. 1806 MS, d. 1879 md Abner Percy Roberts Melissa Pate, b. c 1808 md William Herrin William W Pate, b. c 1810 Matilda Pate, b. c 1814 md -- Karr Mary Ann Pate, b. c 1816 This family was in 1820 Feliciana Par, LA; 1830 and 1840 West Feliciana Par, LA No clue as to where they came to LA from, except the census shows Susan was born in MS. Jinks

Jeremiah M "Jerry" Pate, b. 12 Feb 1839 AL, d. 21 Nov 1910 MO md Nancy J --, b. 27 Dec 1841 IL, d. 13 Apr 1913 Children: Anna Pate, b. 1857 IL James Pate, b. 1859 IL David R Pate, b. 1860 IL Josephine Pate, b. 1864 IL Laura Pate, b. 1873 MO md -- Townsend Florence Pate, b. 1874 MO Perry Pate, b. 1876 MO Leona "Loner" Pate, b. 1878 MO md Roy Elmer Patterson Dora Pate, b. Feb 1880 MO Maggie M Pate, b. c 1886 MO md John W Vaught Kittie Pate, b. c 1887 MO This family was in 1860 Monroe Co, IL; 1870-1910 Green Co, MO. Is he the don of the David R Pate from Morgan Co, AL???? (AL61 family) Sure wish I could place some of these Jeremiah's!! Jinks

William Pate, b. 1790 SC, d. 3 Jun 1856 Amite Co, MS md Elizabeth Garlington, b. 1796 Barnwell Co, SC, d. 10 Sep 1861 MS Children: John Pate, b. 5 Sep 1816 Sarah Pate, b. 8 Dec 1817 md Middleton Monroe Moak Judy Ivanora Pate, b. 13 Nov 1818, d. 25 Oct 1898 md John H Ashbury Wroten Mary "Polly" Pate, b. 5 Mar 1821 MS, d. 1 Jan 1902 md Rev Elijah Young Thomas C Pate, b. 14 Jan 1823 William M Pate, b. 27 Apr 1824, d. 14 Apr 1845 Rankin D Pate, b. 15 Oct 1826 MS, d. 6 Apr 1862 (Civil War) md Pamela Eliza Arnold Elizabeth Pate, b. 18 Oct 1828 Christopher Drake "Kit" Pate, b. 24 Dec 1831 MS, d. 20 Jun 1896 TX md (1) Sarah Lucretia Cottne (2) Ellen Jane Wilson James Lafayette Pate, b. 23 Aug 1834 MS, d. 22 Mar 1922 MS md (1) Sarah Sirena "Book" Suddath (2) Mollie Long-Robertson Nancy Mae Pate, b. 1 May 1837 MS md James D Wilson Lavinia Jane Pate, b. 13 Dec 1839 MS, d. 25 Jan 1915 MS md Robert King Nettles This family was in Amite Co, MS from 1820 to 1850. As always, any corrections or additions are welcome Jinks

Mathew Orin D Pate, b. 18 Sep 1844 AL, d. 15 Feb 1923 OK md Mary Delaney Moore, b. 21 Feb 1849 OH, d. 18 Nov 1927 MO Children: James Lytle Pate, b. 5 Nov 1867 IA, d. 5 Oct 1872 Lowell Pate, b. 17 Mar 1869 IA, d. 22 Mar 1909 Sylvanus "Van" Pate, b. 5 Feb 1871 md Sarah Jane Smith Sylvester Pate, b. 5 Feb 1871, d. 4 Oct 1872 Lon David Pate, b. 7 Feb 1873 IA, d. 3 Mar 1952 MO md Lulu Mary Willey Fredric "Fred" Pate, b. 24 Nov 1875 IA, d. 1964 md Ida Lee Flesher Daniel Pate, b. 30 Aug 1879 KS, d. 19 Jan 1881 Charley Lee Pate, b. 29 Apr 1881 TX, d. 28 Jan 1943 md Bertha Lash Minnie W Pate, b. 7 Jan 1886 MO, d. 5 Oct 1974 md William C Billings Marcus "Mark" Pate, b. 2 Oct 1887 MO, d. 1971 md Lovie Burdett This family was in 1880 Johnson Co, KS; 1900 Clay Co, MO; and 1920 Mayes Co, OK. Mathew Orin Pate served in the Union Army, Co B, 6th KS Cavalry; shows he was a resident of Centerville, Appanoose Co, IA. Jinks

Matthew Pate b. c 1735, d. 1809 Greene Co, TN (No known wife) At least one child: Jeremiah Pate b. c 1770 Deed Record 6 Mar 1809 shows Jeremiah Pate saw his Father, Mathew Pate sign a deed with his mark ARE THESE ALSO CHILDREN OF MATTHEW PATE???? Questions -- A record in Madison Co, AL, 20 Dec 1832: To clear title to slaves - Elizabeth M Pate, dau of Mathew Pate, md (1) Daniel Davis, Sr (2) Michael Coyle and (3) Benjamin Woffard - Elizabeth Woffard of Madison Co and Jeremiah Pate, of Morgan Co, both advanced in years are the only ones by whom to prove facts Are Jeremiah Pate & Elizabeth Woffard sibs and children of Mathew Pate?? A marriage record dated 22 Mar 1802, Greene Co, TN Milly Pate (b. ca 1782) md John Cleveland; Mathew Pate, bondsman 28 Sep 1813, Jefferson Co, KY - Stucky Martin, Jr md Mrs Milly Cleveland. Is this Martin Stucky, Jr? Is Milly Pate also a dau of Matthew Pate? In the 1820 Jefferson Co, KY census there is a Martin Stucky, with wife b. 1775-1796 Sure wish I had some answers! Jinks

BTW, Nancy Elizabeth Pate 1864-1955 marr 23 Feb 1891 FL. to Thomas Wilson Yates 1869-1953 FL., s/o Levi Yates 1836-1908 FL. and Elizabeth Pate 1843 AL.-aft1885, d/o Joel Pate 180?-aft1870 and Elizabeth Sloan 180?-aft1880 Nancy Elizabeth had a sister that marr a McKnight and another sister that marr a Taylor. I think these families lived in or around Geneva, AL. and Holmes/Washington FL. I would love to know who were the parents of sisters Nancy Elizabeth Pate-Yates, Mrs. Pate-McKnight and Mrs. Pate-Taylor. (Also rumored to be granddaughters of Jeremiah Pate and Martha Tindell) Thanks, Max in FL. xamilil@wfeca.net

Yes, Green Pate is buried there as are a number of Pates. The Mt Gilead Church sits almost exactly on the Houston/Geneva County line. If you took readings, probably half the cemetery is in each county. Very nice peaceful well kept place - only about 25 miles from where I live - about a couple of years ago I posted many of the Pates who are buried there. John Wallace Coffee County, AL - one county over. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Sheridan" <dsheridan1@ec.rr.com> To: <PATE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [PATE] Brick Walls: Jeremiah Pate (AL61) > Dear Jinks, I had a note that I just found that Barbara Peters sent me that > says Jeremiah Pate and Mary Green are buried at the Mt. Gilead Church in > Houston Co Al. It used to be Geneva Co. She says that Green Pate is also > buried there. Barbara has been to the grave yard. Mary Green marrried > Jeremiah on 17 Dec 1827 in Madison Co AL. I will have to check and see what > I remember about the poa given for "Rhody". Meredith > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jinks Lee" <jinksp@juno.com> > To: <PATE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 1:41 PM > Subject: [PATE] Brick Walls: Jeremiah Pate (AL61) > > > > Jeremiah Pate b. c 1770, d. Sep 1840 Morgan Co, AL > > md (1) Unknown > > (2) Mary (??)-Green > > > > Children: > > Rhoda Pate, b. c 1792 > > Mary "Polly" Pate b. c 1793 TN > > md Jeremiah Romines > > Thomas Pate, b. c 1794 TN > > md Christiana Borden > > David R Pate b, c 1799 TN > > md Cynthia Gay > > Sarah Ann "Sally" Pate, b. c 1802 AL > > md Joshua Blakenship > > Lucinda Pate, b. c 1804, d. Bef 1837 > > Stephen Pate, b. ca 1806, d. 7 Dec 1862 (Civil War) > > md Isabella A "Ibby" Hill > > Catherine "Kitty" Pate, b. c 1807 > > md James Welch > > Russell Pate, b. c 1810, d. Bef 1837 > > Elizabeth "Betsy" Pate, b. c 1811 > > md David Adams > > Matthew Williams Pate, b. c 1818 > > md Mahala P Collins > > > > This family was in 1830 & 1840 Morgan Co, AL. > > Jeremiah Pate was appointed guardian of his minor children > > to collect an inheritance from Rhoda Pate, dau of Thomas > > Pate of Cocke Co, TN. The children of Jeremiah Pate are > > shown as grandchildren of Thomas Pate -- > > NOW, does this mean Jeremiah Pate md (1) Rhoda Pate, > > dau of Thomas Pate (perhaps she was a cousin, which was > > not unusual) - or is there another explanation???? > > > > Jinks > > > > > > > >

Thanks Jinx. I do understand the difference between tenancy in common and joint tenancy. And I understand that it is entirely possible that Thomas and William were brothers. Based on what I have seen in other deeds, however, I FEEL it is more LIKELY that they were father and son. That's why my friend asked her attorney husband who has an expertise in land deals to take a look at this to tell us what common practice was--aside from the legal terms. Again, these are my feelings and not proof, I know. I am a stickler for proof and documentation in my family research. Folks on this board probably wouldn't know that about me since I am fairly new here. But I also think putting facts together, coming to some reasonable conclusions, and then following up on them are all part of being a successful researcher. Not all "finds" jump out at you in one document, but have to be assembled from various sources. Some of my most successful finds have been based on this kind of detective work and "inspiration." I post my HUNCHES or GUESSES--labeled as such--in order to get new ideas from other folks. Because of a hunch I had posted on another board, another "cousin" and I put our work and our heads together, and that resulted in finding a lost grandmother no one ever had a last name for before. I have a feeling, though, that discussing ideas isn't as welcome on this board. I understand as well as anyone how many mistakes there are on the Internet. I just also thought boards were places to explore possible options. I won't make that mistake again, I promise.

Thanks, Joel. A Beck cousin, Richard, was the one who put me onto to that original land grant to William and Thomas on the BLM site. That's how I know the land was held in common and the division wasn't specified. Thanks also for the other help and ideas you have given me, Joel. You really run an excellent family board. I belong to several boards and this one is among the best. Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joel Pate" <patej@nettally.com> To: "Linda Brunner" <lbrunner@netcarrier.com>; <PATE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [PATE] Thomas and William Pate > Linda > You may find it useful to get copies of the original grant certificates for > 1830-1840 for the Pate grants in the Tuscaloosa - Pickens Co area. You may > download graphic images of them from the Government Land Office-Bureau Of > Land Mgt site > http://www.glorecords.blm.gov/Logon/Logon_Form.asp? > > Joel

Linda You may find it useful to get copies of the original grant certificates for 1830-1840 for the Pate grants in the Tuscaloosa - Pickens Co area. You may download graphic images of them from the Government Land Office-Bureau Of Land Mgt site http://www.glorecords.blm.gov/Logon/Logon_Form.asp? Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Brunner" <lbrunner@netcarrier.com> To: <PATE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 4:57 PM Subject: [PATE] Thomas and William Pate > This is a follow-up to my previous note about Thomas and William Pate owning land together in 1837 Tuscaloosa as tenants in common. > > A good friend's husband is an attorney who told her that it was common for fathers and sons to buy land together, with the unwritten agreement that the father provided at least some of the money for the purchase, while the son farmed the whole thing. Unless it is specified on the deed, each party held an undivided half interest, with the father's name often appearing for security. > > Since both men's names appear on the Tuscaloosa deed, and there is no division of land noted on the deed, I'm going to assume this is what happened with Thomas and William, and I am going to proceed in my research with that assumption because it makes the most sense to me. > > I just can't see two Pate brothers buying land together that late in their lives when they'd already owned property before moving to Tuscaloosa. And I can't see Thomas buying land with a nephew. It just seems logical to me that it's a father and son arrangement. Their ages are right too. (That certainly was the case with Jesse Beck and his son Edom, for which I have more proof than I do for the Pates.) > > I know the case I have is circumstantial but I feel evidence is starting to accumulate. Next step is to see what happened to that particular piece of land after Thomas died. > > Thank you, Karen, Richard and Charlotte for all of your help and for your ideas. > > Linda > > > >

This is a follow-up to my previous note about Thomas and William Pate owning land together in 1837 Tuscaloosa as tenants in common. A good friend's husband is an attorney who told her that it was common for fathers and sons to buy land together, with the unwritten agreement that the father provided at least some of the money for the purchase, while the son farmed the whole thing. Unless it is specified on the deed, each party held an undivided half interest, with the father's name often appearing for security. Since both men's names appear on the Tuscaloosa deed, and there is no division of land noted on the deed, I'm going to assume this is what happened with Thomas and William, and I am going to proceed in my research with that assumption because it makes the most sense to me. I just can't see two Pate brothers buying land together that late in their lives when they'd already owned property before moving to Tuscaloosa. And I can't see Thomas buying land with a nephew. It just seems logical to me that it's a father and son arrangement. Their ages are right too. (That certainly was the case with Jesse Beck and his son Edom, for which I have more proof than I do for the Pates.) I know the case I have is circumstantial but I feel evidence is starting to accumulate. Next step is to see what happened to that particular piece of land after Thomas died. Thank you, Karen, Richard and Charlotte for all of your help and for your ideas. Linda

Linda - thought perhaps this might help a little on the land ownership - the right to survivorship distinguishes a joint tenancy from the tenancy in common - under a tenancy in common, each tenant's share passes to his own heirs at the death of the tenant - in a joint tenancy, the survivor gets all the property With this in mind - it would not be unusual for brothers to purchase land under the tenancy in common, since their part of the land would go to their heirs. Jinks

The notes I have for Jeremiah Pate buried at Mount Gilead Church Cemetery, now in Houston Co AL show dates 10 MAY 1801-30 MAR 1885 not 1770-1840. The 1801-1885 Jeremiah was in the 1850 and 1860 Dale and 1870 Geneva census. Mount Gilead Church is in (or at) the Peterman Crossroad west of Dothan, AL. The church is on the west side of the highway and the cemetery is on the east. Typical for that part of the known universe. The church perhaps was in Henry (maybe Dale) county until Houston Co was created in 1903. I have not seen the proof or stone on Jeremiah 1801-1885, but I'd wager it will prove up. Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Sheridan" <dsheridan1@ec.rr.com> To: <PATE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [PATE] Brick Walls: Jeremiah Pate (AL61) > Dear Jinks, I had a note that I just found that Barbara Peters sent me that > says Jeremiah Pate and Mary Green are buried at the Mt. Gilead Church in > Houston Co Al. It used to be Geneva Co. She says that Green Pate is also > buried there. Barbara has been to the grave yard. Mary Green marrried > Jeremiah on 17 Dec 1827 in Madison Co AL. I will have to check and see what > I remember about the poa given for "Rhody". Meredith > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jinks Lee" <jinksp@juno.com> > To: <PATE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 1:41 PM > Subject: [PATE] Brick Walls: Jeremiah Pate (AL61) > > > > Jeremiah Pate b. c 1770, d. Sep 1840 Morgan Co, AL > > md (1) Unknown > > (2) Mary (??)-Green > > > > Children: > > Rhoda Pate, b. c 1792 > > Mary "Polly" Pate b. c 1793 TN > > md Jeremiah Romines > > Thomas Pate, b. c 1794 TN > > md Christiana Borden > > David R Pate b, c 1799 TN > > md Cynthia Gay > > Sarah Ann "Sally" Pate, b. c 1802 AL > > md Joshua Blakenship > > Lucinda Pate, b. c 1804, d. Bef 1837 > > Stephen Pate, b. ca 1806, d. 7 Dec 1862 (Civil War) > > md Isabella A "Ibby" Hill > > Catherine "Kitty" Pate, b. c 1807 > > md James Welch > > Russell Pate, b. c 1810, d. Bef 1837 > > Elizabeth "Betsy" Pate, b. c 1811 > > md David Adams > > Matthew Williams Pate, b. c 1818 > > md Mahala P Collins > > > > This family was in 1830 & 1840 Morgan Co, AL. > > Jeremiah Pate was appointed guardian of his minor children > > to collect an inheritance from Rhoda Pate, dau of Thomas > > Pate of Cocke Co, TN. The children of Jeremiah Pate are > > shown as grandchildren of Thomas Pate -- > > NOW, does this mean Jeremiah Pate md (1) Rhoda Pate, > > dau of Thomas Pate (perhaps she was a cousin, which was > > not unusual) - or is there another explanation???? > > > > Jinks > > > > > > > > >

Meredith & Joel - my records show the same for the Mt Gilead Cemetery - Jeremiah Pate - he is my AL55 - the Jeremiah who md Mary Green is under the AL61 posting. Two different Jeremiah's - and there are many more!! Jinks

Dear Jinks, I had a note that I just found that Barbara Peters sent me that says Jeremiah Pate and Mary Green are buried at the Mt. Gilead Church in Houston Co Al. It used to be Geneva Co. She says that Green Pate is also buried there. Barbara has been to the grave yard. Mary Green marrried Jeremiah on 17 Dec 1827 in Madison Co AL. I will have to check and see what I remember about the poa given for "Rhody". Meredith ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jinks Lee" <jinksp@juno.com> To: <PATE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 1:41 PM Subject: [PATE] Brick Walls: Jeremiah Pate (AL61) > Jeremiah Pate b. c 1770, d. Sep 1840 Morgan Co, AL > md (1) Unknown > (2) Mary (??)-Green > > Children: > Rhoda Pate, b. c 1792 > Mary "Polly" Pate b. c 1793 TN > md Jeremiah Romines > Thomas Pate, b. c 1794 TN > md Christiana Borden > David R Pate b, c 1799 TN > md Cynthia Gay > Sarah Ann "Sally" Pate, b. c 1802 AL > md Joshua Blakenship > Lucinda Pate, b. c 1804, d. Bef 1837 > Stephen Pate, b. ca 1806, d. 7 Dec 1862 (Civil War) > md Isabella A "Ibby" Hill > Catherine "Kitty" Pate, b. c 1807 > md James Welch > Russell Pate, b. c 1810, d. Bef 1837 > Elizabeth "Betsy" Pate, b. c 1811 > md David Adams > Matthew Williams Pate, b. c 1818 > md Mahala P Collins > > This family was in 1830 & 1840 Morgan Co, AL. > Jeremiah Pate was appointed guardian of his minor children > to collect an inheritance from Rhoda Pate, dau of Thomas > Pate of Cocke Co, TN. The children of Jeremiah Pate are > shown as grandchildren of Thomas Pate -- > NOW, does this mean Jeremiah Pate md (1) Rhoda Pate, > dau of Thomas Pate (perhaps she was a cousin, which was > not unusual) - or is there another explanation???? > > Jinks > > >

Jeremiah Pate b. c 1770, d. Sep 1840 Morgan Co, AL md (1) Unknown (2) Mary (??)-Green Children: Rhoda Pate, b. c 1792 Mary "Polly" Pate b. c 1793 TN md Jeremiah Romines Thomas Pate, b. c 1794 TN md Christiana Borden David R Pate b, c 1799 TN md Cynthia Gay Sarah Ann "Sally" Pate, b. c 1802 AL md Joshua Blakenship Lucinda Pate, b. c 1804, d. Bef 1837 Stephen Pate, b. ca 1806, d. 7 Dec 1862 (Civil War) md Isabella A "Ibby" Hill Catherine "Kitty" Pate, b. c 1807 md James Welch Russell Pate, b. c 1810, d. Bef 1837 Elizabeth "Betsy" Pate, b. c 1811 md David Adams Matthew Williams Pate, b. c 1818 md Mahala P Collins This family was in 1830 & 1840 Morgan Co, AL. Jeremiah Pate was appointed guardian of his minor children to collect an inheritance from Rhoda Pate, dau of Thomas Pate of Cocke Co, TN. The children of Jeremiah Pate are shown as grandchildren of Thomas Pate -- NOW, does this mean Jeremiah Pate md (1) Rhoda Pate, dau of Thomas Pate (perhaps she was a cousin, which was not unusual) - or is there another explanation???? Jinks