Laurie - I may need to exchange with you for the bit that happens after Australia I think - Richard James Pate born 1864 in West Bromwich and came out here on the Stuttgart in his 30's. -----Original Message----- From: Laurie Thompson [mailto:lthompson@terrafirma.com.au] Sent: Sunday, 30 January 2005 8:41 PM To: PATE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PATE GENEALOGY] Fwd: Pate-genealogy Hello . Can I stick my two cents in . I want Pates c1850 in scotland -- Edinburgh area . Laurie from Australia . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margaret Mcclure" <maggi312@cox.net> To: <PATE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 6:17 PM Subject: [PATE GENEALOGY] Fwd: Pate-genealogy > >>From: "Ginger Heath" <gbheath@industryinet.com> >>To: <maggi312@cox.net> >>Subject: Pate-genealogy >>Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 22:06:35 -0600 >>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) > > Almost all of you are much more knowledgeable about the Pates then I > am, hopefully someone can help Ginger with her Pates. Thank you all. > Maggi > > >>I am working on my family (Bradley) and see that you have done some >>research on the Pates. Susan Pate was my grandfather's (Arthur >>Bradley Sr.) mother. >>He was born in 1877; his mother died in 1880. Arthur and his twin >>Edgar were separated within the family. I believe Edgard went with a >>Hatchett, but I'm not sure what family took in my grandfather. I >>remember the story that my grandfather looked for his mother's grave >>throughout the Arkansas area where he grew up but he never found her >>gravesite. >> >>You've been much more successful in finding Pates than I have been. >>There are quite a number of Bradleys, Hatchetts and other relatives >>(maybe Pates >>too) buried in the Clinton, AR cemetery. >> >>Mary Virginia Bradley Heath (Ginger) >>-- > > >

Hello . Can I stick my two cents in . I want Pates c1850 in scotland -- Edinburgh area . Laurie from Australia . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margaret Mcclure" <maggi312@cox.net> To: <PATE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 6:17 PM Subject: [PATE GENEALOGY] Fwd: Pate-genealogy > >>From: "Ginger Heath" <gbheath@industryinet.com> >>To: <maggi312@cox.net> >>Subject: Pate-genealogy >>Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 22:06:35 -0600 >>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) > > Almost all of you are much more knowledgeable about the Pates then I am, > hopefully someone can help Ginger with her Pates. Thank you all. > Maggi > > >>I am working on my family (Bradley) and see that you have done some >>research >>on the Pates. Susan Pate was my grandfather's (Arthur Bradley Sr.) >>mother. >>He was born in 1877; his mother died in 1880. Arthur and his twin Edgar >>were >>separated within the family. I believe Edgard went with a Hatchett, but >>I'm >>not sure what family took in my grandfather. I remember the story that my >>grandfather looked for his mother's grave throughout the Arkansas area >>where >>he grew up but he never found her gravesite. >> >>You've been much more successful in finding Pates than I have been. There >>are quite a number of Bradleys, Hatchetts and other relatives (maybe Pates >>too) buried in the Clinton, AR cemetery. >> >>Mary Virginia Bradley Heath (Ginger) >>-- > > >

Hi Susan, I forwarded the messages on to Ginger, perhaps she will want to join the list, but I'm sure she will contact you. Your very kind to send the information on about her family. I'm sure she will be thrilled. Really appreciate your time and response. Maggi

Ii would love to know more about Ginger's family too! My grandmother, Irene Penzel Bradley, who married Lonnie Wilson Temple, remembered her uncles Edgar and Arthur fondly. One of my mother's cousins may remember more about Edgar and Arthur. Ginger, please feel free to contact me directly. Susan Hood Hartford, CT jrbhartford@mac.com On Jan 30, 2005, at 2:17 AM, Margaret Mcclure wrote: > >> From: "Ginger Heath" <gbheath@industryinet.com> >> To: <maggi312@cox.net> >> Subject: Pate-genealogy >> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 22:06:35 -0600 >> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) > > Almost all of you are much more knowledgeable about the Pates then I > am, hopefully someone can help Ginger with her Pates. Thank you all. > Maggi > > >> I am working on my family (Bradley) and see that you have done some >> research >> on the Pates. Susan Pate was my grandfather's (Arthur Bradley Sr.) >> mother. >> He was born in 1877; his mother died in 1880. Arthur and his twin >> Edgar were >> separated within the family. I believe Edgard went with a Hatchett, >> but I'm >> not sure what family took in my grandfather. I remember the story >> that my >> grandfather looked for his mother's grave throughout the Arkansas >> area where >> he grew up but he never found her gravesite. >> >> You've been much more successful in finding Pates than I have been. >> There >> are quite a number of Bradleys, Hatchetts and other relatives (maybe >> Pates >> too) buried in the Clinton, AR cemetery. >> >> Mary Virginia Bradley Heath (Ginger) >> -- > >

Perhaps I can help Ginger a little bit, as I am a descendent of Susan Pate too. While I don't have primary sources, some of this is drawn upon memories of my grandparents, now long gone, and most from McAlister and Nall researchers. Susan Pate b. 1847 Sick Mountain (?), Conway Co, AR m. 25 Dec 1867, Clinton, Van Buren Co, AR to Smith Hampton Bradley (25 Aug 1842 - 18 June 1921) d. May 1867 Clinton, Van Buren Co, AR Their children were: William Thomas Bradley Girl twins, called Sam and Ant Dave Boy twins, Edgar and Arthur and the last child, which I believe died with Susan Pate in childbirth. Susan Pate was one of nine children born to William F. Pate (b. 1804 Fayette Co. GA?, d. 24 March 1854 Conway Co, AR) and Lovica (also sp. Lovicy) McAlister (b. 12 Jan 1822, Lawrence Co, MS, d. 1879, Conway Co, AR) married 1 Nov 1836, Pulaski Co, AR There's more on her ancestry, but that's all I can get to right now. Susan Hood 375 Laurel Street Hartford, CT 06105 jrbhartford@mac.com On Jan 30, 2005, at 2:17 AM, Margaret Mcclure wrote: > >> From: "Ginger Heath" <gbheath@industryinet.com> >> To: <maggi312@cox.net> >> Subject: Pate-genealogy >> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 22:06:35 -0600 >> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) > > Almost all of you are much more knowledgeable about the Pates then I > am, hopefully someone can help Ginger with her Pates. Thank you all. > Maggi > > >> I am working on my family (Bradley) and see that you have done some >> research >> on the Pates. Susan Pate was my grandfather's (Arthur Bradley Sr.) >> mother. >> He was born in 1877; his mother died in 1880. Arthur and his twin >> Edgar were >> separated within the family. I believe Edgard went with a Hatchett, >> but I'm >> not sure what family took in my grandfather. I remember the story >> that my >> grandfather looked for his mother's grave throughout the Arkansas >> area where >> he grew up but he never found her gravesite. >> >> You've been much more successful in finding Pates than I have been. >> There >> are quite a number of Bradleys, Hatchetts and other relatives (maybe >> Pates >> too) buried in the Clinton, AR cemetery. >> >> Mary Virginia Bradley Heath (Ginger) >> -- > >

>From: "Ginger Heath" <gbheath@industryinet.com> >To: <maggi312@cox.net> >Subject: Pate-genealogy >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 22:06:35 -0600 >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Almost all of you are much more knowledgeable about the Pates then I am, hopefully someone can help Ginger with her Pates. Thank you all. Maggi >I am working on my family (Bradley) and see that you have done some research >on the Pates. Susan Pate was my grandfather's (Arthur Bradley Sr.) mother. >He was born in 1877; his mother died in 1880. Arthur and his twin Edgar were >separated within the family. I believe Edgard went with a Hatchett, but I'm >not sure what family took in my grandfather. I remember the story that my >grandfather looked for his mother's grave throughout the Arkansas area where >he grew up but he never found her gravesite. > >You've been much more successful in finding Pates than I have been. There >are quite a number of Bradleys, Hatchetts and other relatives (maybe Pates >too) buried in the Clinton, AR cemetery. > >Mary Virginia Bradley Heath (Ginger) >--

Yes, I have this information also in my archives. Thank you very much

I searched the Pate archives and found the following message from Jinks Lee in 2002. Note that the surname KITE is part of this family. There was a D. Kite mentioned in the letter who was a member of the same church as E Pate. Lindy Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 12:59:20 -0600 From: Jinks Lee <jinksp@juno.com> To: PATE-L@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <20021102.133007.2328.0.jinksp@juno.com> Subject: [PATE] Brick Walls: Elijah Pate (AL50.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elijah Pate, b. c 1780 SC, d. c 1863 GA md Elizabeth, b. c 1785 GA Children: Herrod Pate, b. 1807 SC md (1) 30 Sep 1828 Kiddy Perrey (2) 13 Aug 1837 Bersheba Overton Hollis M Pate, b. 1810 SC md 19 Jan 1832, Jincey R Jane Hagler John Pate, b. 5 Jun 1811 SC md 23 Jun 1836 Barbara Kite Samuel Pate, b. 22 Jun1813, d. 9 Jan 1889 md (1) 27 Dec 1833, Susan Kite (2) 17 Dec 1877, Mary E (??)-Warren Elender Pate, b. c 1817 md Edward R Dodd Elijah Pate, b. 22 Dec 1825 GA, d. 2 Jan 1901 TX md Martha Elizabeth Gilland This family was from 1830-1860 in Fayette Co, GA; 1870 the widow was in Carroll Co, GA Jinks ----- Original Message ----- From: <MargaretLindly@aol.com> To: <PATE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 3:33 PM Subject: Re: [PATE GENEALOGY] E Pate/ Fayette Co GA 1837 > Who do you think this E. Pate is? I know that it was not Elijah Pate the son > of Peterson Pate. Elijah was born in January 1829. Just wondering. >

Who do you think this E. Pate is? I know that it was not Elijah Pate the son of Peterson Pate. Elijah was born in January 1829. Just wondering.

Named in Letter from Bethsaida Church, Fayette Co to Hopeful Church Fayette Co regarding a controversy between several churches regarding a Rev E S Duke. Several letters were written between some churches about this man. Bethesaida's Letter to Hopeful. Georgia, Fayette county. The church of Christ at Bethsaida, to her sister church at Hopeful. Dear brethren: Permit us in Christian regard to inform you that we are aggrieved with you, for receiving into your fellowship, a refractory member of our church in a manner that we deem disorderly. The case is that of your receiving Rev. E [Edward] S Duke, at a time when he was under censure of this church, for an offence against the church; on which account a letter of dismission formerly granted him, and then in his possession, was, by order of the church taken from him, previous to his going away. And the case then at issue, in connection with his contemptible conduct, has been prosecuted against him so far as to bring out he sentence of his excommunication founded on the annexed charges against him. 1st. For declaring a non-fellowship with the church. 2nd. And his utter obstinacy in refusing to hear the church. 3rd. His contemptible manner of leaving the church. 4th. And also for charges brought against him from our sister church at Bethel, Heard county for falsehood. Dear brethren, this is therefore to request you to retract your hasty step and restore the satisfaction which you have so unjustly taken away. We send you this by the brethren, J. S. Dodd, D. Kite, E. Pate, E. Dodd and D. Smith. Done in Conference, May 20th, 1837. G. B. Davis, Mod'r. J. S. Dodd, Clk. [Source: The Primitive Baptist, 24 Feb 1838, newspaper microfilm.] Lindy Hard

This obit was sent to me. No publication or date were provided. R. D. Remulus Raymond Pate. Gordo, AL - R. D. Remulus Raymond Pate, 81, died Dec. 28, 2004, at Estes North Health Care Center. Service will be today at 2 p.m. at the Skelton Funeral Home chapel with the Rev Tony Burns and the Rev. Gypsy Strickland officiating. Burial will be at Greenhill Memorial Gardens. The family will receive friends one hour before the service. Mr. Pate was born June 22, 1923, to the late Tom A. and Myrtie Clardy Pate in Gordo. He was a self-employed logger and a member of Gordo Church of God of Prophesy. In addition to his parents he was preceded in death by his wife, Myrtie Lee Smelley Pate; his brother Romulus L Pate; half brothers Jeff and Harmon Pate; sisters Ella Elmore, Beatrice Jones, Ruby Jones and Hattie Harless and half sisters Zuda and Lucy. He is survived by his sons Leroy and Faron Pate, both of Gordo, AL and Elton Pate of Greensboro, AL; daughters Joyce Montgomery and Wanda Sullivan , both of Gordo, AL; and 10 grandchildren. Jason Sullivan, Johnny Harless, Bill Jones, Ben Snipes, Joe Stewart and John Windham will serve as pallbearers.

This from Dot Barnum: Please remember Katherine Pate Johnson and her family in your prayers. The Moultrie Observer, Dec 28, 2004 Moultrie, GA MOULTRIE - Katherine Pate Johnson, 79, of Moultrie died Monday, Dec. 27, 2004, at her residence. Funeral services will be held at 2 p.m. Wednesday, Dec. 29, at Cobb Funeral Chapel with the Rev. James Sellers officiating. Interment will follow at Cobb Suncrest Memorial Gardens. Casketbearers will be Roy Pate, Tommy Barnes, Jimmy Wisham, Darrell Tucker, Scott Brown, Rick Ruth, Tony Tucker and Tommy Fallin. Born Feb. 22, 1925, in Colquitt County, Mrs. Johnson was the daughter of the late Homer Pate and the late Lorene Dudley Pate. She was a homemaker and of the Baptist faith. She was preceded in death by her husband, Hilmer Johnson. Survivors include a son, Don Johnson and wife Jackie of Moultrie; three daughters, Robbie Harrod and husband Clarence of Albany, Jackie Roberts and husband Ottis of Moultrie, and Joyce Ruth and husband Rick of Schaumburg, Ill.; a brother, Morris Pate of Moultrie; three sisters, Billie Tucker, Gladys Johnson and Emerine Wisham, all of Moultrie; eight grandchildren, Virginia Varnadoe, Katrina Brown, Michael Roberts, John Harrod, Gwen Nicholas, Kandy Bius, Kasey Ruth and Aimie Ruth; and eight great-grandchildren. Visitation will be held from 6 to 8 tonight at Cobb Funeral Chapel. The family may be contacted at the residence of Mr. and Mrs. Ottis Roberts, 228 Lindale Ave., in Moultrie. Cobb Funeral Chapel is in charge of arrangements.

Thanks for this information Joel. Please note that the dob of Porter Pate was February 14, 1898 not 1900. He was my father. You could be correct about the "Pacia" from Patience in this instance but that is not what I was told by my mother. She may not have known the name of Mary Jane Yeomans Pate's mother Patience Bell. Merry Christmas Jesus is the reason for the Season ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joel Pate" <patej@nettally.com> To: <PATE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 4:21 AM Subject: [PATE GENEALOGY] John Thomas Pate md Mary Jane Yeoman(s) in Geneva Co AL > This from a long time subscriber, Pacia Brown- > > "My gmother, Mary Jane Yeomans, dob abt 1872 - md John Thomas PATE ab. 1892 in or near Geneva (Dale) County, AL. Trying to determine parents of Mary Jane Yeomans." > > Pacia: > Mary Jane Yeoman or Yeomans married John Thomas Pate in Geneva Co AL about 1892. The 1900 census of Geneva Co AL shows John and Mary J Pate with son Portor Pate b Feb 1900 (15 Feb 1900). The census enumeration shows Mary J Pate's birth as Nov 1877. > > Turning to the 1880 census of Geneva Co AL we find a Mary J Yeoman age 3 b 1877 in the household of Judson K Yeoman. His wife is Patience A Yeoman. I would conclude that the parents of your grandmother, Mary Jane Yeomans were Judson K Yeomans and his wife Patience A Yeomans. > > I believe that Patience A Yeomans was Patience A. J. E. BELL. > > I also believe that your name, Pacia, could have been derived from the name Patience, your great grand mother. > > I would wager that if you went up you Yeomans or Bell line you would find the Porter surname. > > Merry Christmas > > Joel > >

This from a long time subscriber, Pacia Brown- "My gmother, Mary Jane Yeomans, dob abt 1872 - md John Thomas PATE ab. 1892 in or near Geneva (Dale) County, AL. Trying to determine parents of Mary Jane Yeomans." Pacia: Mary Jane Yeoman or Yeomans married John Thomas Pate in Geneva Co AL about 1892. The 1900 census of Geneva Co AL shows John and Mary J Pate with son Portor Pate b Feb 1900 (15 Feb 1900). The census enumeration shows Mary J Pate's birth as Nov 1877. Turning to the 1880 census of Geneva Co AL we find a Mary J Yeoman age 3 b 1877 in the household of Judson K Yeoman. His wife is Patience A Yeoman. I would conclude that the parents of your grandmother, Mary Jane Yeomans were Judson K Yeomans and his wife Patience A Yeomans. I believe that Patience A Yeomans was Patience A. J. E. BELL. I also believe that your name, Pacia, could have been derived from the name Patience, your great grand mother. I would wager that if you went up you Yeomans or Bell line you would find the Porter surname. Merry Christmas Joel

I don't know whether anyone on the list is looking for PATE in New England, but I just stumbled upon these two entries and thought I'd post them. PATE, ABIGAIL Date of Birth: 05/01/1758 Township: Newport County: Newport Co. PATE, PRISCILLA Date of Birth: 03/02/1756 Township: Newport County: Newport Co. These are from "Rhode Island - Birth Index (1640-1976)" posted on genealogy.com this month. Warning: this is NOT a comprehensive list of births. Sharon

RE: The following is an incomplete table of Tennessee Brides (some with birth/death data) and their Grooms. What is missing is the location and dates of their marriages. If you have any data on these marriages please share it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Some of the records listed were actually North Carolina Marriages. Most of the information was obtained BC (before computers) and was not fully transcribed after the computer became a regular part of my research. I have copies of these records in my files which are in storage. CHEROKEE COUNTY, NC CATHERINE PATE 1841-1924---WILLIAM G PAYNE---(COUNTY)---(DATE) Source: Family Bible of Catherine Pate Payne, in possession of Katherine Payne Burrell, Cherokee County, NC William G. Payne to Catherine Pate 10 Sep 1865, Cherokee County, NC by Rev. A. Coleman. Additional information: Mr. Jack C. Battle, found a small book of marriages at the North Carolina Archives, which may not be photocopied, and provided a transcript to the Southwest North Carolina Genealogical Society Quarterly, The marriage of William and Catherine appears as: Sept. 8, 1865 Wm. P. Payne & Catherine Pate Civil War Pension (SC687156) indicated they were married on 10 Sept 1865 ----- MARTHA MATILDA PATE 1848---JAMES W MONTGOMERY---(COUNTY)---(DATE) James W. Montgomery to Matilda Pates, 21 May 1867. Married by T.W. Vest, JP ----- SUSANNAH PATE 1854---CHARLES RAXTER---(COUNTY)---(DATE) All of this information is on the license issued in Cherokee County, NC License issued 16 Dec 1874 Charles Carson Raxter age 21 of Transylvania, NC, son of Ephraim Raxter (dec'd) and Polly Raxter (dec'd) to Susann Pate age 20, daughter of Jesse Pate (living) and Martha Pate (Living) Married: 27 Dec. 1874 by Elisha Craig, Justice of Peace witt: W.G. Payne, Warren Allen, Alfred Rice Performed at the home of Elijah Crawley in Shoal Creek ----- MARY ELIZABETH PATE 1863---MILOWE BEAVER---(COUNTY)---(DATE) Milowe Beaver to Betty Pate, married 2 Feb 1884, at the home of Jesse Pate by W.H. Phillips, JP. Witnesses: Jesse Pate, E. Pate ----- PHERIBA PATE 1850.04---MR SAUNDERS---(COUNTY)---(DATE) John R. Saunders to Leraby T. Pate, 5 Mar 1876 by. Rev. H.Cox ----- ROSE ELLEN PATE 1852---JEHU MONTGOMERY---(COUNTY)---(DATE) MARRIAGE Cherokee County Courthouse, Murphy, NC Johugh Chasteen Montgomery to Ellen Rosan Pate. Married 23 Oct 1872 by, William G. Payne, JP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WASHINGTON COUNTY, TENNESSEE One of my early trips to the TN archives. I photocopied the page but neglected to record the book number. The Washington County TN microfilm contained books 0 & 1. CATHERINE PATE 1826---EPHRAIM TITTLE---(COUNTY)---(DATE) Ephraim Tittle to Catherine Pate, license 6 July 1844, marriage 7 July 1844, returned by George Tittle ----- MARILLA PATE 1835---CALLOWAY MASHBURN---(COUNTY)---(DATE) Calloway Mashburn to Marilla Pate, marriage 4 May 1851 by Ellis HIGGINS, J.P. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- YANCEY COUNTY, NORTH CAROLINA Most of the following can be found on Harold Robinson’s website, Yancey County Marriages-1850-1920.” < http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/4319/marriages.htm> I do not have copies of these records. AMY PATE---ANDERSON EDWARDS---(COUNTY)---(DATE) Turner A (Anderson) EDWARDS (18) to Martha PATE (18) Married by: G E Mc Intosh -- Witnesses: D F Pate, J B Hensley ------------------------------------------- JULIA A PATE 1863.08.05-1934.05.10---SWINFIELD KING---(COUNTY)---(DATE) Swinfield KING (20) to Julia PATE (18) Married by: L S Phillips-- Witnesses: M S Pate, William J King, William Radford. ------------------------------------------- LUCENIA M PATE 1869---GEORGE W HIGGINS---(COUNTY)---(DATE) George W HIGGINS (24) to Dulcie PATE (22) Married by: R W King -- Witnesses: J H Hensley, P F Tilson Please respect the privacy of other people; do not submit information on living individuals without their permission.

"The American Genealogy of John Ben Pate" is one of many sources on the Pates that are flawed. Where that book is concerned the author "jumped to conclusions." The author appears to have relied on correspondence with others as his "PROOF." He attributes children to individuals who had died several years prior to the birth of the child. Just because there are two Pate families in the same area did not make them related. Nor do all of the Pates in the US today descend from Sir John Pate of Leicestershire, England. For membership in any of the lineage societies you have to provide PROOF. My application for the UDC included, my birth certificate, husband's birth certificate, marriage certificate, parents marriage certificate - then the fun began. My parents were born before recording births was mandatory. As a substitute I had to provide census copies showing them as young children. One of my ancestors had been missed by the census taker. Though I had a marriage license it took a deed to prove that this ancestor was the child of the Confederate Soldier. The loss of Southern Records makes finding some of your proof difficult. Lineage societies will not accept most secondary sources. Remember too that you have 16 gg-grandparents, half of which would have been eligible to be in the military. If you go to ggg-grandparents you have doubled your chances of finding a qualifying ancestor. Good luck, Janice Pate Please respect the privacy of other people; do not submit information on living individuals without their permission.

I strongly concur with Janice's observations about the need for "proof" for every generation. Remember "Undocumented Genealogy is only Mythology" John R.Wallace Past President Al Society, Sons of the American Revolution

Jeremy: It is entirely possible that they did marry in Dooly Co in 1864. At least one researcher put the record, as 1864 and Dooly Co, into the LDS data base. Somewhere I picked up a note that they had a son named Lee born before the daughter named Cynthia Jane Pate b in 1868 That would certainly support a 1864 marriage date. IF, Big IF, the marriage records for both Dooly and Wilcox Co GA for the 1860's are in the micro film archives in the Georgia State Archives, it would be possible to resolve this question. Consider this point. Look at the debate and discourse we are having in 2004 and then try to go back to about 1915 and try to image the struggle John Ben Pate had in trying to sort things out. I think he made some easy ASSUMPTIONs rather than thoughtful, well drawn rational and supported conclusions. His writings were based on incomplete and inaccurate data and his "findings" are flawed. Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Utt" <jeremy_utt@hotmail.com> To: <PATE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 2:35 PM Subject: RE: [PATE GENEALOGY] John Thomas Pate married Henrietta Kirkland 1867 in Wilcox Co GA > Joel, > > Thanks for that information. I do not seriously doubt what you say. > However, some argue that John Thomas Pate married in 1864 in Dooly County. > The marriage record that I found definitely did say 1864, and the marriage > record was from Dooly County. Was there a John Pate who married a Henrietta > (ANYBODY) in Dooly County in the mid-1860s, that you know of? > > Jeremy > **************************************************************************** *** > > >From: "Joel Pate" <patej@nettally.com> > >Reply-To: PATE-L@rootsweb.com > >To: PATE-L@rootsweb.com > >Subject: [PATE GENEALOGY] John Thomas Pate married Henrietta Kirkland 1867 > >in Wilcox Co GA > >Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 14:14:28 -0500 > > > >Jeremy: > >I think that John Thomas Pate married Henrietta KIRKLAND in Wilcox Co GA 19 > >Jan 1867. The copy of the marriage license you have should give you a clue > >as to when and where it was issued and when the marriage ceremony was > >perform and by whom. I have information that indicates a John Owen(s) JIC > >(Judge of the Inferior Court) married them probably in Wilcox Co GA. > > > >It is entirely possible that the Clerk who issued the license recorded her > >surname as KIRKLING. These types of errors are why we have cousins who > >spell their surname as PAIT or PAYTE. > > > >I believe that Henrietta Kirkland was the daughter of Irwin Kirkland (b 16 > >Mar 1816-d ca 1867) and Cynthia Coleman (b 27 Sep 1816) Irwin Kirkland and > >Cynthia Coleman married in GA some time prior to the birth of Henrietta > >Kirkland in 1847. Henrietta Kirkland would have been approximately age 2 or > >3 in the 1850 census of GA. > > > >Consider this household in the 1850 census of Emanuel Co GA > >Page 450B, Dist 28, site 94/94 [22 Aug 1850] > >Irvin Kirkland----------34 W/M b GA > >Sinthy Kirkland-------33 W/F b GA (Cynthia Coleman) > >Elizabeth Kirkland--10 W/F b GA > >Ivy Kirkland------------- 5 W/M b GA > >Henrietta Kirkland--- 2 W/F b GA > >Remer Kirkland------9m W/M b GA > > > >Also consider the 1870 census of Wilcox Co GA. If John Thomas Pate married > >Henrietta Kirkland on 1867 in Wilcox Co GA, they probably would have been > >enumerated in the 1870 census of Wilcox Co GA. > >Consider Page 211, House Creek Dist, site 363/360 > >John Pate------------22 W/M b GA 1848 > >Henrietta Pate-----21 W/F b GA 1849 > >Cinthia Pate--------- 2 W/F b GA 1868 > > > >In that era it was customary to name the first born daughter for the > >maternal grandmother. Cynthia Jane Pate b ca 1868 was named for her > >maternal grandmother, Cynthia Coleman. > > > >Researchers have surveyed cemeteries in Wilcox Co GA and have published the > >findings of that survey, in book form and on the Internet. > > > >Consider this entry from the survey of graves in the Oklahoma Baptist > >Church Cemetery in Wilcox Co GA- > >John Thomas Pate----22 Jan 1847-24 Feb 1924 > >Henrietta Pate-----------18 Jun 1847- 7 Jun 1906 > > > >I believe these dates to be an accurate representation of what was cut into > >the gravestones. > > > >I think that, if you research further, you will find that- > >Cynthia Jane Pate b 22 Apr 1868 d 11 Jul 1934 married 27 Jul 1883 in Dooly > >Co GA to Daniel Warren Spires b 30 Jul 1864 d 12 Feb 1939. > > > >Joel > > > > > >

Joel, Thanks for that information. I do not seriously doubt what you say. However, some argue that John Thomas Pate married in 1864 in Dooly County. The marriage record that I found definitely did say 1864, and the marriage record was from Dooly County. Was there a John Pate who married a Henrietta (ANYBODY) in Dooly County in the mid-1860s, that you know of? Jeremy ******************************************************************************* >From: "Joel Pate" <patej@nettally.com> >Reply-To: PATE-L@rootsweb.com >To: PATE-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [PATE GENEALOGY] John Thomas Pate married Henrietta Kirkland 1867 >in Wilcox Co GA >Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 14:14:28 -0500 > >Jeremy: >I think that John Thomas Pate married Henrietta KIRKLAND in Wilcox Co GA 19 >Jan 1867. The copy of the marriage license you have should give you a clue >as to when and where it was issued and when the marriage ceremony was >perform and by whom. I have information that indicates a John Owen(s) JIC >(Judge of the Inferior Court) married them probably in Wilcox Co GA. > >It is entirely possible that the Clerk who issued the license recorded her >surname as KIRKLING. These types of errors are why we have cousins who >spell their surname as PAIT or PAYTE. > >I believe that Henrietta Kirkland was the daughter of Irwin Kirkland (b 16 >Mar 1816-d ca 1867) and Cynthia Coleman (b 27 Sep 1816) Irwin Kirkland and >Cynthia Coleman married in GA some time prior to the birth of Henrietta >Kirkland in 1847. Henrietta Kirkland would have been approximately age 2 or >3 in the 1850 census of GA. > >Consider this household in the 1850 census of Emanuel Co GA >Page 450B, Dist 28, site 94/94 [22 Aug 1850] >Irvin Kirkland----------34 W/M b GA >Sinthy Kirkland-------33 W/F b GA (Cynthia Coleman) >Elizabeth Kirkland--10 W/F b GA >Ivy Kirkland------------- 5 W/M b GA >Henrietta Kirkland--- 2 W/F b GA >Remer Kirkland------9m W/M b GA > >Also consider the 1870 census of Wilcox Co GA. If John Thomas Pate married >Henrietta Kirkland on 1867 in Wilcox Co GA, they probably would have been >enumerated in the 1870 census of Wilcox Co GA. >Consider Page 211, House Creek Dist, site 363/360 >John Pate------------22 W/M b GA 1848 >Henrietta Pate-----21 W/F b GA 1849 >Cinthia Pate--------- 2 W/F b GA 1868 > >In that era it was customary to name the first born daughter for the >maternal grandmother. Cynthia Jane Pate b ca 1868 was named for her >maternal grandmother, Cynthia Coleman. > >Researchers have surveyed cemeteries in Wilcox Co GA and have published the >findings of that survey, in book form and on the Internet. > >Consider this entry from the survey of graves in the Oklahoma Baptist >Church Cemetery in Wilcox Co GA- >John Thomas Pate----22 Jan 1847-24 Feb 1924 >Henrietta Pate-----------18 Jun 1847- 7 Jun 1906 > >I believe these dates to be an accurate representation of what was cut into >the gravestones. > >I think that, if you research further, you will find that- >Cynthia Jane Pate b 22 Apr 1868 d 11 Jul 1934 married 27 Jul 1883 in Dooly >Co GA to Daniel Warren Spires b 30 Jul 1864 d 12 Feb 1939. > >Joel >