I agree completely. We have proved we can disagree and still get along. We have to do this in order for our group to continue. This is the best bunch of "family" I have ever worked with. And I go back to the 1980's when I published the Pate Pioneers. We all got along and helped each other then and we must do it now. Clovis Since I have been hacked again my new email address is [email protected] No more Yahoo for me.

Well said, to both Troy and Clovis. Just last week I replied to a rootsweb email, thinking it was a private email. Fortunately, no harm came of it, but it is a mistake that can easily occur. Bruce Pate ----- Original Message ----- From: "Troy Pate" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 11:29 AM Subject: Re: [PATE] PATE Digest, Vol 5, Issue 127 >I have seen the post and apology and have to say both of these men are > men I look up to. > Obviously we have all said or have thought > something one time or another in our lives too hastily and have regret > the instant it's out. I would expect there's someone out there for each > of us when we reach out in confidence to vent. I humbly ask for all Pate > friends and family here to delete, forgive, and move on. We are Pates, > all of us, with a common hope to find our history. > > Kind Regards, > Troy > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Way to go AJ....are you one of those criminal Pates? I understand completely. I, along with my head injury, wrote an email just slamming another relative for some really stupid things they had done. Then, I sent it to the relative I was talking about. Oh well, I have plenty of other relatives. Take care, you unfriendly person, you. Jerry -------Original Message------- From: AJ Date: 5/24/2010 7:03:59 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PATE] PATE Digest, Vol 5, Issue 127 Troy, Joel can be such an SOB. You saw the email where I asked him to put my Sir John article in a separate digest. He said he would, then this. See below. What a jerk! A. J. ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 2:00 AM Subject: PATE Digest, Vol 5, Issue 127 Today's Topics: 1. Re: Famous Pates (Robert N. Grant) 2. Re: Famous Pates (Gerald Pait) 3. Re: Famous Pates (ThorPateLine) 4. Re: Famous Pates (ThorPateLine) 5. OBIT ~ Ann G. Pate - MS (ThorPateLine) 6. OBIT ~ Elisha Pate - GA (ThorPateLine) 7. Re: Famous Pates (Pate, Stephen) 8. The Troubled Times of Sir John Pate, born c. 1585 and died 1659 (AJ) 9. Re: Famous Pates (ThorPateLine) 10. Re: Famous Pates (Pate, Stephen) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It is a shame then things like this happens. Every one involved in the Pate Project will suffer if things like this continue to happen. I for one don't like to see anyone speak ill of Joel. Without him, we would really have a mess. Hopefully this can be put behind us, and I think Joel is man enough to forgive and go on with our mission. Can we all consider our thoughts before putting them on paper. I have been hacked again as you probably know. I am in the process of getting another email address and will let those of you whose address I have what the new one will be. Remember I said I would ask for prayers, but never money.

Personally, my interactions with Joel have always been very positive. Unlike many of you, my Pate line isn't a pleasant or productive search; however, Joel has never been anything but encouraging. His commitment and dedication are admirable. Thank you Joel! Lisa

I have seen the post and apology and have to say both of these men are men I look up to. Obviously we have all said or have thought something one time or another in our lives too hastily and have regret the instant it's out. I would expect there's someone out there for each of us when we reach out in confidence to vent. I humbly ask for all Pate friends and family here to delete, forgive, and move on. We are Pates, all of us, with a common hope to find our history. Kind Regards, Troy

I want to apologize to Joel and all subscribers for my intemperate remarks which were made this morning and unfortunately sent as a reply to the Listserve. They were obviously intended as a private communication. After sending this in error, I quickly saw to my horror that it had been sent to the Listserve. I immediately sent an email to Joel apologizing for my comments, hoping it could be blocked from being sent. Though Joel and I have had a few minor disagrements over the years, as all people do in similar associations, I want all to know that I have the highest respect for Joel and his unsurpassed knowledge of Pate genealogy, also for his decades of unselfish sharing of that knowledge with others. I have praised Joel with all sincerity for these efforts both privately and publicly, and repeatedly. I have stated often that he is the greatest Pate genealogist in the world and in the history of the Pate family, with his work and dedication being equaled only by the late Jinks Pate-Lee. All I can hope is that my apology will be accepted and my words forgiven. I would not want anything to interfere with the success of the Project and this Listserve. Hopefully, we can rise above my intemperate remarks for the sake of the greater good. I would like to offer some explanation, though not excuses. First, Troy and I are very close friends, and we have become confidants. He has visited in my home a number of times, and we communicate often by phone and emails. So we feel comfortable in discussing things openly, knowing that our unguarded comments will remain confidential. Troy and I had discussed my paper on Sir John for about an hour just prior to me going to bed last night. So it was fresh on my mind this morning when I awoke and checked my emails. My email intended for Troy was just a snap reaction, sent with little thought, on seeing the Listserve digest this morning. (In all my years of sending emails, this was the first one, of all emails, that was sent to the wrong party.) I was frustrated because my paper on Sir John had not been posted separately in the digest, after the months I had spent preparing it, as I had thought that it would be. I had wanted it posted separately due to its length, and for the convenience of any wishing to copy it for their files. Again, I apologize to all and most particularly to Joel. I would not blame Joel for being angry. I would be too. I feel terrible, but, sadly, words hastily spoken cannot be recalled. All I can do is humbly ask his forgiveness, if for no other reason than for the sake and best interests of the Project, the Listserve, and our Pate genealogy. I request Joel, if at all possible, to expunge this entire exchange from the archives of the Listserve. A. J.

Your email to Troy came to me at my Windstream address. This is really bad. My Yahoo account has been hacked into again. I will not be using Yahoo and you can continue using my Windstream account until further notice.

Troy, Joel can be such an SOB. You saw the email where I asked him to put my Sir John article in a separate digest. He said he would, then this. See below. What a jerk! A. J. ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 2:00 AM Subject: PATE Digest, Vol 5, Issue 127 Today's Topics: 1. Re: Famous Pates (Robert N. Grant) 2. Re: Famous Pates (Gerald Pait) 3. Re: Famous Pates (ThorPateLine) 4. Re: Famous Pates (ThorPateLine) 5. OBIT ~ Ann G. Pate - MS (ThorPateLine) 6. OBIT ~ Elisha Pate - GA (ThorPateLine) 7. Re: Famous Pates (Pate, Stephen) 8. The Troubled Times of Sir John Pate, born c. 1585 and died 1659 (AJ) 9. Re: Famous Pates (ThorPateLine) 10. Re: Famous Pates (Pate, Stephen)

No I knew it was a separate event ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Sent: Sun May 23 17:36:17 2010 Subject: Re: [PATE] Famous Pates Interesting, Stephen - My husband and I live in the area where this took place. What you have written sounds as though you are saying Henry Clay Pate was court-martialed for extorting money from the citizens of Chambersburg. Not so. Stuart took sides with Brig. Gen. Thomas Rosser during a feud with Henry Clay Pate that resulted in Pate being court-martialed, but it was not because he extorted any money from the citizens here. http://www.historynet.com/battle-of-yellow-tavern.htm/1 Laynie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pate, Stephen" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 4:59 PM Subject: Re: [PATE] Famous Pates In confederate service he extorted money from the citizens of chambersburg pa. He was court martialed. He and jeb stuart were close friends but quarelled. They were reconciled at yellow tavern where they both died. Earlier on kansas missouri frontier he and his militia surrendered to john brown ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Sent: Sun May 23 15:23:49 2010 Subject: Re: [PATE] Famous Pates Maybe this would be of interest to someone? http://kansasboguslegislature.org/mo/pate_h_c.html Laynie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald Pait" <[email protected]> To: "Joel Pate" <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 2:32 PM Subject: Re: [PATE] Famous Pates >From what I remember about Henry Clay Pate's war record, he was not someone to be celebrated. Jerry -------Original Message------- From: Robert N. Grant Date: 5/23/2010 11:23:53 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PATE] Famous Pates Dear Pate List, I found one more thing of interest about Henry Clay Pate. The biography previously posted included a mocking article or reminiscence by a Cincinnati newspaperman about Henry Clay Pate announcing himself as an author in about 1853 or 1854 in Cincinnati. The 1850 Census for Boone County, VA, listed Edmond Pate, age 67 and occupation as "writing". His son William D. Pate was listed as age 22 and his occupation as writing. His son Henry K. Pate was listed as age 17 and a student. Also in the household was Paul C. Reed, age 43 and occupation as writing, and Roseer McCarter, age 20 and occupation as writing. This is the first time I have seen "writing" as a listed occupation, much less four persons with that occupation in the same household. There is undoubtedly an interesting story about how this family became a household of self described writers and a story which would explain why Henry Clay Pate would be willing to present himself to the world as an author, especially in a rough river city like Cincinnati where he would be subjected to the kind of ridicule expressed in the newspaperman's article. Best wishes, Bob Grant On 5/23/2010 7:29 AM, Robert N. Grant wrote: > Dear List, > > Henry Clay Pate was from Bedford County, VA. I found the following > biography at http://kansasboguslegislature.org/mo/pate_h_c.html, which > I thought the group might find of interest. > > My records list Henry Clay Pate as the > 1. son of 1852 (year of death) Edmund or Edward Pate Kanawha > County,VA, now WVA, (place of death) and Sarah "Sally" (Bailey) Pate, > 2. grandson of Matthew Pate and possibly Dabney (_____) Pate, and > 3. great grandson of 1768 Edmund Pate of Bedford County, VA, and > Martha (_____) Pate. > > Bob Grant > 15 Campo Bello Court > Menlo Park, CA 94025 > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Interesting, Stephen - My husband and I live in the area where this took place. What you have written sounds as though you are saying Henry Clay Pate was court-martialed for extorting money from the citizens of Chambersburg. Not so. Stuart took sides with Brig. Gen. Thomas Rosser during a feud with Henry Clay Pate that resulted in Pate being court-martialed, but it was not because he extorted any money from the citizens here. http://www.historynet.com/battle-of-yellow-tavern.htm/1 Laynie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pate, Stephen" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 4:59 PM Subject: Re: [PATE] Famous Pates In confederate service he extorted money from the citizens of chambersburg pa. He was court martialed. He and jeb stuart were close friends but quarelled. They were reconciled at yellow tavern where they both died. Earlier on kansas missouri frontier he and his militia surrendered to john brown ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Sent: Sun May 23 15:23:49 2010 Subject: Re: [PATE] Famous Pates Maybe this would be of interest to someone? http://kansasboguslegislature.org/mo/pate_h_c.html Laynie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald Pait" <[email protected]> To: "Joel Pate" <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 2:32 PM Subject: Re: [PATE] Famous Pates >From what I remember about Henry Clay Pate's war record, he was not someone to be celebrated. Jerry -------Original Message------- From: Robert N. Grant Date: 5/23/2010 11:23:53 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PATE] Famous Pates Dear Pate List, I found one more thing of interest about Henry Clay Pate. The biography previously posted included a mocking article or reminiscence by a Cincinnati newspaperman about Henry Clay Pate announcing himself as an author in about 1853 or 1854 in Cincinnati. The 1850 Census for Boone County, VA, listed Edmond Pate, age 67 and occupation as "writing". His son William D. Pate was listed as age 22 and his occupation as writing. His son Henry K. Pate was listed as age 17 and a student. Also in the household was Paul C. Reed, age 43 and occupation as writing, and Roseer McCarter, age 20 and occupation as writing. This is the first time I have seen "writing" as a listed occupation, much less four persons with that occupation in the same household. There is undoubtedly an interesting story about how this family became a household of self described writers and a story which would explain why Henry Clay Pate would be willing to present himself to the world as an author, especially in a rough river city like Cincinnati where he would be subjected to the kind of ridicule expressed in the newspaperman's article. Best wishes, Bob Grant On 5/23/2010 7:29 AM, Robert N. Grant wrote: > Dear List, > > Henry Clay Pate was from Bedford County, VA. I found the following > biography at http://kansasboguslegislature.org/mo/pate_h_c.html, which > I thought the group might find of interest. > > My records list Henry Clay Pate as the > 1. son of 1852 (year of death) Edmund or Edward Pate Kanawha > County,VA, now WVA, (place of death) and Sarah "Sally" (Bailey) Pate, > 2. grandson of Matthew Pate and possibly Dabney (_____) Pate, and > 3. great grandson of 1768 Edmund Pate of Bedford County, VA, and > Martha (_____) Pate. > > Bob Grant > 15 Campo Bello Court > Menlo Park, CA 94025 > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The Troubled Times of Sir John Pate, born c. 1585 and died 1659 As mentioned on the Pate Listserve previously, in my research attempting to connect the Pate families in early colonial Virginia to their relatives and ancestors in England, I often come across new and interesting information. There has been so much misinformation posted and distributed about Sir John Pate that I will attempt to clarify it all here in one narrative, at least as it relates to his title and the Pate coat of arms. Other efforts have been made to correct the record on this ancestor, but usually not comprehensive in covering all aspects. William T. Pate covered much of this in a well-researched post on Genforum in 2002, including a lot of family details for Sir John. Joel Pate and Sam Pait have also discussed these subjects on the Listserve. Since this post will focus more on how Sir John Pate earned his title of "baronet" and the origins of the Pate coat of arms, most other details of his life and family will wait for later. At that time, I will prepare a detailed timeline for the life and times of Sir John Pate with other contemporary Pate families, primarily in England, which will flesh out much that is known and can be gathered about these ancestors. I have attempted to be as accurate as possible by finding reliable sources to document each fact. However, I am not citing sources here for every detail. It could double the length of this narrative, rendering it virtually unreadable. If it is important to know the source of a particular fact, please send me a private email. My primary source for this paper was "The History and Antiquities of the County of Leicester" by John Nichols (hereinafter "Nichols"). This is a massive, monumental work of 4,500 pages (excluding 250 pages of indexes) and 5,000.000 words. This work is contained in eight different large books (four volumes with two parts each), 10 inches by 14 inches, published from 1795 to 1811. Each book weighs about ten pounds. It is available in only 43 libraries worldwide, but none in Texas. So I had to get access to the books through interlibrary loans from several libraries. Also, when dealing with persons and events of 300 to 400 years ago, there are many conflicting dates, kinships, events, etc. In those cases, I have chosen the fact which is better documented and/or from the most reliable sources. Any corrections or additions are welcomed. If you have either or both, please send to me with supporting documentation or references. This is a work in progress which may never be completed. NOTE: Because of the length of this posting, any responses should not be posted as replies, but rather as new separate postings. The civil wars of England The most significant events of Sir John's life are entangled in the civil wars of England. This was a fascinating time in the history of England, for us in retrospect, but for those living at the time, it was a very dangerous and treacherous time when, if you supported the wrong side, you were in serious danger of losing not only your personal wealth, but also your life. Your choice was to support the king, the Royalists ("Cavaliers"), or to support Parliament, the Parliamentarians ("Roundheads"). That history will be briefly summarized here for background and context only. There are probably hundreds of books where you can learn more if interested. The English Civil War was actually three wars which were strung-out over 1642 to 1651. The first (1642-46) and the second (1648-49) were armed conflicts between supporters of King Charles I and supporters of the Parliament. King Charles I was beheaded in January 1649 after he was defeated and the monarchy was abolished. The third war involved supporters of his exiled son Charles (later King Charles II), but the war ended with victory again by the Parliament in 1651. Charles II returned to England in May 1660 when the monarchy was restored, and was crowned king in April 1661. The Pate estates in Eye-Kettleby and Sysonby The large manor of Eye-Kettleby had been previously owned by Symon Digby, who was guilty of high treason some time before 1580, and it became the property of Queen Elizabeth. By 1594, the manor was transferred either to Edward Pate, b. 1503, who had been a master of the Mint for King Henry VIII and who died in 1593, or to his son and heir, Edward Pate, who died in April 1597. Upon the death of the latter Edward, the estate belonged to Henry Pate, his only son and heir. Henry had three sons -- Edward, the eldest and heir, died without children; Sir John, second son, who inherited the estate on the death of his brother Edward; and Thomas, a sergeant-major killed in a battle at Burton-on-the-Trent in 1645. Edward Pate had possessed the large manorial mansion of Eye-Kettleby at least by 1594, since he made a detailed inventory of its contents dated March 27 of that year, sealed with his crest. This inventory willed the goods to his grandson, Edward, son of Henry, then to Edward's heirs, and, if no heirs (as was the case), to Sir John. Why Henry was bypassed is unknown. Source: "Transactions of the Leicestershire Architectural and Archeaological Society", Vol. IV, 1878, pgs. 264-267. Sometimes it is difficult to keep the Pate estates in Sysonby and Eye-Kettleby separate in various writings. Sir John seems more closely associated with Sysonby since he is often noted as "Sir John Pate of Sysonby". He apparently owned an estate of about 350 acres, and his home, which stood on the banks of the Eye River, has been called a manor of Sysonby Grange and Hall-house. This was a separate estate from the manor house at Eye-Kettleby owned by his grandfather, which Sir John inherited on the death of his brother Edward. Sir John's eldest daughter and co-heiress Abigail married Sir Thomas Smith, a baron, and lived at the Pate estate in Sysonby as a widow until her death in 1691. Their only daughter and heiress, Frances Pate Smith, married Richard Lister, and the estate then fell to Lister heirs. Source: "History and Antiquities of the County of Leicester", John Nichols, Vol. I, 1795, pgs. 282-283, and Vol. III, 1804, p. 524. Both manor houses were torn down c. 1770 by their owner Christopher Stavely, a noted architect. "[The] stones were used to build or improve several of the hunting lodges in [Melton], for example, Egerton Lodge and the Old Club in Burton Street. Part of the grounds of the present Riverside Farm were [sic] originally the gardens of the old [Sysonby] Grange . . ." Source: "The Story of Melton Mowbray", Phillip E. Hunt, 1957, pgs. 53-54. Sysonby and Eye-Kettleby are small villages within the township of Melton Mowbray in Leicestershire County, about 100 miles north of London. (For cheeselovers, the famous Stilton cheese is produced in the Melton area.) How Sir John Pate became a baronet One source states that Sir John was an alumnus of Brasenose College at Oxford University. I have been unable to corroborate this from any other source, though it does not seem improbable. Source: "Brasenose: The Biography of an Oxford College", J. Mordaunt Crook, Oxford University Press, 2009, p. 52. In a related footnote, the author refers to another book, "Royalist Officers . . . a Biographical Dictionary", P. R. Newman, 1981. Sir John was high sheriff of the county of Leicestershire in 1640 and appointed by the king again in 1643. The story of how Sir John acquired his title is narrated in a fairly recent book with the nondescript title of "Home Divisions: Aristocracy, the State and Provincial Conflict", by Thomas Cogswell, pages 293-294, Manchester University Press, 1998. Cogswell wrote: "Pate himself took the field [c. 1642], raising two regiments and, after a distinguished service as Colonel of Horse, arranged the surrender of Lichfield [1646]. Meanwhile his brother was a sergeant-major in the royal army. Their labours, quite logically, earned baronetcies for their families [1643] [note 53]. . . . Furthermore Charles's fateful decision in 1645 to plunge his field army into the east Midlands owed much to the insistence of Sir Henry Skipwith and Sir John Pate that the parliamentary defences of Leiceister were quite weak. They paid for their devotion in coin as well as in blood. . . . In fact Skipwith's sons found the prospect of living under parliamentary rule so unpleasant that they moved the family en masse to Virginia." See Note 53, p. 297, Chapter 13. ("En masse" is probably an overstatement, since I can find that originally only Sir Grey Skipwith and his sister Diana came to Virginia c. 1650.) I sent an email to Cogswell to inquire of the source of the information about Sir John Pate in his book, but he did not have the common courtesy to respond. For his actions against Parliament and in support of the king, John Pate (then esquire), was impeached for high crimes and misdemeanors by Parliament in July 1642, while the war was still ongoing. As a result of his courage in battle and loyalty to King Charles I, Sir John earned his baronetcy. An official document presented to the Queen and Parliament in 1886 indicates that Sir John's baronetcy was created on October 28, 1643. The baronetcy became extinct upon his death in 1659 since he had no living male heir. His only two sons died unmarried c. 1650, perhaps in an epidemic. According to Nichols, Sir John and Elizabeth had eleven children (in fifteen years of marriage!). We know the names of only five. Beside their first daughter Abigail mentioned above, their second daughter Frances also married well. She was the wife of Lord Charles Carington, and they had one daughter. The two sons of Sir John are strangely left unnamed by Nichols in the Pate pedigree. However, they seem to have been men of some accomplishment. According to "Alumni Cantabrigienses: A Biographical List of All Known Students, Graduates and Holders of Office at the University of Cambridge, from the Earliest Times to 1900 ", both sons were graduates of Jesus College at Cambridge University. They both had chambers at Middle Temple, apparently as barristers. Middle Temple was one of the four Inns of Court in London. Middle Temple trained future lawyers and "educated the sons of the nobility and country gentry", in addition to providing chambers for practicing lawyers. Henry Pate, admitted to chambers in 1638, was identified as "son and heir of John Pate of Cysonbye, Leicestershire, esquire". Edward Pate, admitted to chambers in 1639, was identified as "second son of John Pate of Cysonbye, Leicestershire, esquire". In 1650, it was noted that Edward was deceased, but no mention was found of Henry's death. Apparently, Sir John's father Henry also attended Middle Temple in 1567, perhaps only as a student. He was identified as "son and heir of Edward Pate of Ketlebye, Leicestershire, esquire". These Middle Temple records were in the "Minutes of Parliament of the Middle Temple", Vols. I-III. I have been unable to determine exactly what happened to Sir John after the death of King Charles I and subsequent defeats of the Royalists. He was heavily fined for his support of the king. He was given a substantial fine of 1,120 British pounds by Parliament in 1648, and spent much effort in fighting that fine and loss of other privileges. Unfortunately, Sir John died a year before the future King Charles II returned to England. It is virtually certain that his loyalty to Charles I would have been fully vindicated and restoration made if he had lived. I cannot find any indication that his property was restored to his heirs, though that seems to be the case, since Abigail lived on the Sysonby estate until her death in 1691. He was buried at St. Giles-in-the-Field Church in London. His first wife, Elizabeth Skipwith, is buried in St. Mary's Church in Melton Mowbray, Leicestershire. She is buried under an alabaster slab inside the church. Their two daughters placed the memorial which honors both parents. For more detail, see "Founders and Monuments of Melton Church", Transactions of the Leicestershire Architectural and Archeaological Society, Vol. III, page 81, 1874. The memorial is written in Latin, and I have never seen an English translation. I will post the Latin inscription on the Listserve in a separate posting. To add to the mystery of Sir John's final years, there is this quote from a letter written to William Lees by the vicar of the Melton Mowbray Church, Dr. Morris Colles, dated October 27, 1886: ". . . I want to know from some external source of information whether Sir John Pate was executed and his body given to his friends for burial, or how he died." That is a quandary still lacking a definitive answer, though I do not think he was executed. This quote is from a privately-published paper titled "My Family's Story: The Pates of Livorno, Italy" by Rosa Matilda Emily Lees, 1925. Baronets are created by the monarch and are the only knighthood that is hereditary. While the lowest rank of nobility, baronets have precedence over all other knights, with certain specified exceptions. To qualify, the baronet must be a gentleman born. The title of "Sir" is granted them, and "Lady" to their wives. The hereditary Order of Baronets was first instituted by King James I in 1611 (yes, as in the King James Version of the Holy Bible). Most sources indicate that Sir John was the 433rd man to receive this honor. (Reference: "The Baronetage of England . . ." by the Rev. William Betham, Vol. V, published by Warde and Betham, London, 1805.) Baronets are not entitled to sit in the House of Lords since the title is not considered a peerage. Barons are the lowest rank of peerage, and baronets rank just below them. The Pate coat of arms Though there are several Pate coats of arms, we are most familiar with the one of the Pate family of Sysonby and Eye-Kettleby. These arms are described as a white or silver shield with three black Roman text "R"s. There are at least two related variations of these arms, while two others appear to be completely unrelated. These will be further discussed in a later paper. The following references in this narrative to the "Pate coat of arms" will be specifically to the familiar one described. The Pate arms date back at least to 1588. The earliest reference to them that I can find was on a list of the nobility and gentry in the County of Leicester who contributed to the defense against a threatened Spanish invasion. On that list, Edward Pate was identified as an armiger, a bearer of arms. This Edward, greatgrandfather of Sir John Pate, was born c. 1503 and died c. 1593. He was one of the masters of the Mint under King Henry VIII, and the concept of hereditary arms is said to have begun early in his reign. Thomas North, an honorary secretary and former editor of the Leicestershire Architectural and Archeaological Society wrote a paper on the Pate family, published in the Society's "Transactions", Vol. IV, 1878, pages 263-270. The paper was titled "Notes on the Connection of the Pate Family, with Eye-Kettleby and Sysonby, in the County of Leicester". In this paper, North refers to the three "R"s on the Pate coat of arms, ". . . which my friend, Mr. [Vincent] Wing, of Melton, most ingenuiously reads -- "Regi, Regno, Rectioni," -- For the King, the Kingdom, and the Constitution, or more literally, the Government." No hint is given for the basis of Mr. Wing's finding, so it is highly likely this will be the best deduction of its meaning ever given, and one that seems plausible. The "R"s were almost certain to represent a Latin phrase, since Latin was commonly used on legal and official papers of that day. If this was in fact the meaning, it would obviously indicate a deep loyalty and commitment to the king. This could easily be the case for Edward Pate, perhaps the original owner of the Pate manor at Eye-Kettleby, who likely received many favors from King Henry VIII. His forthright show of loyalty could have been motivated by his wish to distinguish himself from Catholic Bishop Richard Pate's opposition to Henry VIII's separation of the Church of England from the Roman Catholic Church. Both men, possibly distant kin, had been placed in high offices by Henry VIII. Later, it would certainly apply to his great-grandson, Sir John Pate, who risked his life and fortune in loyalty to King Charles I. The first two "R"s: If supporting the king, then obviously also supporting his kingdom and monarchy. The third "R" for the Constitution or the Government, could be baffling for Americans, but the British monarchy is called a constitutional monarchy, which is its form of government (as ours is a constitutional republic, if we can keep it, as Benjamin Franklin said). Unlike the United States, the UK has no single document called its constitution. Its constitution is uncodified, with most of it written in statutes, judicial judgments, and treaties. Statutes passed by Parliament are considered the supreme law of the UK. On the wall in the Melton church above the memorial stone for Sir John and Elizabeth Pate, the Pate and Skipwith arms were impaled (side by side) on one shield with the Pate arms on the left side of the shield. Crests and mottos are personal and not hereditary, thus can be adopted at will by any legal inheritor of a coat of arms. The most familiar crest on the Pate coat of arms is described as a stag's head with a raven with wings expanded standing between the antlers, though it is unclear exactly which Pate first used this crest. This crest is described in "The General Armory . . .", page 779, by Sir Bernard Burke, published 1884. There are five other Pate coats of arms described on that same page, including two variations of Sir John's. It is indeterminate exactly what the Pate motto was (if there was one) and who created it. I can find only two references to it in historical terms. One possible source is the large silver flagon in the Melton church which was a gift from Abigail, daughter of Sir John and widow of Sir Thomas Smith, c. 1680. It is engraved with the Smith arms with the Pate arms shown as a small escutheon of pretense (explained below) which was her right as a Pate heiress. Atop the arms was a Smith crest. At the bottom is written: "Pietas numquam moritur. The gift of the Lady Smith of Sisonby." Source: Transactions of the Leicestershire Architectural and Archeaological Society, Vol. IV, 1875, pgs. 269-270. There is no motto on the memorial for Sir John and Elizabeth Pate in the Melton church. Nichols, in an unsourced footnote, states: "Pate's motto is Virtus nunquam moritur." Is that a Pate motto on the flagon, or a Smith motto? The surname "Pate" does not appear on this vessel; therefore logically it seems more likely that this is a Smith motto, or simply a non-arms statement by Lady Smith, since mottos were generally reserved for men. On the other hand, Nichols does state a Pate motto with a slight wording change. Assuming Nichols is correct, then Abigail may have changed the wording slightly for her own purposes. This requires a little analysis, but keep in mind that I am no Latin scholar. My research indicates that Romans used the word pietas to state a sense of moral duty. The word virtus is derived from the Latin vir ("man") and encompassed the ideal of the true Roman male. This has been translated as denoting courage, or as we would say "a real man". So, assuming this is correct, the mottos could mean "Duty never dies" (Abigail) and "Courage never dies" (Nichols). We know that both duty and courage were not idle words in Sir John's life. In the following paragraphs, I will summarize some of the elements of heraldry relevant to this discussion. I owe much of this information to a lecture by Joseph C. Wolf, http://www.digiserve.com/heraldry/lecture1.htm , which I learned about in a post to the Pate Listserve by Marilyn Nickless in 2000. Don't take this stuff too seriously (though Wolf does). It can get very complex and very tedious. We don't charge into battle anymore carrying our coats of arms, and anyway our U. S. Constitution states in Section 9 that "No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States . . ." If you want to put the Pate coat of arms in your home, then go ahead. We don't have heraldry police coming around checking our homes. I have had a very handsome one in my study for decades which I acquired from Dublin, Ireland, but unfortunately the company doesn't appear to exist anymore. The right to bear a coat of arms was limited to the nobility and gentry. From 1530 to 1688 in England, men bearing arms were required to provide pedigrees and evidence of their right to arms. Thereafter, the arms may be inherited by sons with the same surname, then following this pattern through successive generations. If a direct family line should die with no male heirs, then the coat of arms becomes extinct. Technically, if we were still subjects of England, which continues to regulate the use of arms, none of us would have any right to use those arms, unless we could prove we were direct descendants of a brother or paternal uncle of Sir John Pate. By royal order, heraldic tours of inspection (called "visitations") were made in order to regulate and register the coats of arms of nobility and gentry and to record their pedigrees. These mandatory inspections were ordered to determine that the titles of knight, esquire, gentleman, and nobility were being lawfully used. In a coat of arms, a helmet sits atop the shield with crest attached, as may be worn into battle. Helmets were displayed above a coat of arms according to the rank of the bearer. For knights and baronets (such as Sir John), the helmet was of polished steel, full-face and visor open, without vertical guard bars. Women did not have the right to bear arms nor have mottos, but did have certain rights to use their father's or husband's coat of arms (the shield only), usually in a diamond shape (lozenge). There are special rules regarding their use of the arms, depending on whether they were single, married, widowed, etc. If you want to bore into the minutiae, it is available in the lecture linked above and elsewhere. As a matter of fact, Sir John's two daughters, his heraldic co-heiresses (sisters having no living brothers), continued using his arms displayed with their husband's arms, in effect in trust for their sons, who could then combine arms of both families on their own shield. In the case of Sir John's daughter Abigail, Sir Smith placed a smaller Pate arms in the center of his own arms, called an "escutheon of pretense". This indicated that he was a representative of her family for the benefit of their sons, who thus inherited both arms which could then be "quartered" on their own arms. Quartering was a method of dividing a shield into equal parts and placing different coats of arms in each division. As previously described on the Pate and Skipwith arms, the Carington and Pate arms were impaled for Sir John's daughter Frances. Why is Sir John Pate still relevant to Pate genealogy? The honors and troubles of Sir John Pate still have significant relevance to our Pate genealogy today. We do not know which Pate family in America, if any, are descendants of his family, though we know for certain that none of us are direct descendants since his only two sons were unmarried and had no children when they died c. 1650. So this remains a mystery waiting to be solved by a diligent and persistent researcher. It will likely take boots on the ground in England to trace his family (brothers, male cousins, etc.) to the Pate families in early colonial Virginia, a seemingly solvable puzzle since they were all contemporaries. The troubles that Sir John and other gentry faced in England almost certainly played a major role in the early emigration of Pate's to colonial Virginia. Why not leave the turmoil in England, avoiding the risk to wealth and life, for the relative security of the New World? As previously noted, this was exactly the motivation for the Skipwith family, with at least Sir Grey Skipwith leaving about 1650 and emigrating to Virginia with his sister. And do not overlook the close connections between the Pate and Skipwith families in the 1600s in England. Sir Henry Skipwith and Sir John Pate were fellow military leaders in support of King Charles I in Leicestershire. Sir John Pate was married to Elizabeth Skipwith, sister of Sir Henry Skipwith. Sir John's older brother Edward was married to Anne Skipwith, also a sister of Sir Henry Skipwith, but they had no children. There is one source which states that Sir Grey Skipwith had qualified in Lancaster County, Virginia, as administrator of Richard Pate's estate, primarily in Gloucester County, after his death in 1657 (Virginia Magazine of History and Biography, October 1921, p. 435). I have been unable to corroborate this statement. However, official records (Admon. Act Book P.C.C.) state that this duty was assigned on October 30, 1657, to John Pate (nephew of Richard), who emigrated to Gloucester County, Virginia, in 1651. The very close associations of the Pate and Skipwith families in England and possible associations in Virginia present a very fertile field for further research. John Pate, nephew of Richard Pate, died in 1672, while serving on Virginia's Council of State, whose members were appointed by the governor and approved by the king. He had a wife still living in England. Did he also have part of his estate in England which was administered there? He was referred to by the Council of State as an attorney, obviously educated in England, and had been appointed administrator over a number of estates in Virginia by the Council. So it seems highly unlikely that he would have died without a will, though it was probably destroyed with all the other public records of Gloucester County. However, with part of his estate in England, his will was likely probated there as well. This will, if found, could provide a lot of valuable information for our Pate genealogy. Perhaps the single most important document, which has a high likelihood of still being available and containing significant valuable information, would be the last will of Edward Pate, a prominent London merchant. He was kinsman of prominent Pate's in early Virginia -- nephew of Richard Pate, brother of John Pate, and father of Col. Thomas Pate. Beside these close kinships with prominent Pate's in colonial Virginia, Edward was apparently well-connected with the gentry and nobility in England, being a good friend of Baron Francis Howard, the royal governor-general of Virginia from 1683 to 1692. Edward's will would identify members of the Pate family who remained in England and their kinships to those who emigrated to Virginia. Edward died after 1686, very likely before 1700. A timeline of contemporary persons and events for 1558 through 1660 Here is a brief timeline to put all these persons and events in context and perspective: 1558 Queen Elizabeth began her reign after the death of her father Henry VIII. 1565 Catholic Bishop Richard Pate died in the Tower of London, refusing to pledge allegiance to Queen Elizabeth. c. 1585 Sir John Pate born. 1586 Sir Walter Raleigh established the first English colony in the New World on Roanoke Island in Virginia. 1587 Queen Elizabeth ordered the execution of Mary, Queen of Scots, for treason. c. 1590 The manor at Eye-Kettleby was possessed by the Pate family. 1603 Queen Elizabeth dies, and King James VI of Scotland becomes King James I of England, uniting the two kingdoms. 1605 Guy Fawkes, leader of a group of Roman Catholics, attempted to blow up the Houses of Parliament with the king in attendance. 1607 Jamestown, the first successful British colony in North America, is founded in Virginia. 1611 The King James Version of the Bible is published. 1613 Sir John Pate married Elizabeth Skipwith, sister of Sir Henry Skipwith. 1616 William Shakespeare died. 1620 The Pilgrims set sail for New England from Plymouth aboard the Mayflower. 1625 King James dies and is succeeded by his son Charles. 1629 King Charles I dissolves Parliament and rules without it until 1640. 1636 Richard Pate emigrates to Gloucester County, Virginia. c. 1639 After the death of his first wife in 1628, Sir John Pate marries Lettice Dilkes, eldest daughter of Sir Thomas Dilkes, her third marriage. 1640 Sir John Pate is high sheriff of Leicestershire. 1642 The English Civil War between King Charles I and the Parliament begins with Sir Henry Skipwith and Sir John Pate fighting for the king. 1643 Sir John Pate is granted a baronetcy and again appointed high sheriff of Leicestershire by King Charles I. 1648 Sir John Pate fined 1,120 British pounds by Parliament for his support of the king. 1649 King Charles I is deposed and beheaded. 1649 Parliament rules the Commonwealth of England until 1653. 1650 Richard Pate acquires 1,141 acres in Gloucester County, Virginia. c. 1650 Both sons of Sir John Pate, Henry and Edward, died unmarried. c. 1650 Sir Grey Skipwith emigrates to Lancaster County, Virginia, with his sister Diana. 1651 John Pate (nephew of Richard Pate and brother of London merchant Edward Pate) emigrates to Gloucester County, Virginia. 1651 Charles II becomes King of Scotland. 1653 Oliver Cromwell declared Lord Protector of England. The Protectorate ends in 1659. 1656 Henry Pate emigrates to New Kent County, Virginia, with wife Elizabeth and daughter Katherine. c. 1657 Thoroughgood Pate emigrates to Virginia. 1659 Sir John Pate dies and is buried in London. 1660 Charles II returns to England from exile and becomes king of Great Britain in 1661. Open questions for further research In addition to those raised in the above narrative, here are some additional challenges for a motivated researcher on the Pate families of England in the 1500-1600s: a.. The will of Sir John has yet to be discovered, and also the will of his second wife Lettice who had been married to two prominent and wealthy men before Sir John. a.. In Cogswell's book, he mentions Sir John's brother (unnamed) who was "a sergeant-major in the royal army." Was this "Thomas Pate, sergeant-major, killed, in the king's service, at Burton upon Trent" (from John Nichols' Pate pedigree)? There was also a Major Pate who died in an attack from Ashby Castle in 1645. Are these all the same person? a.. The troubles that Sir John and other gentry faced in England almost certainly played a major role in the early emigration of Pate's and others to colonial Virginia. As noted above, there were close connections between the Pate and Skipwith families in the 1600s in England. Are there any direct connections in the emigrations of the Pate and Skipwith families and/or after their arrivals in Virginia? a.. What are the connections between the Pate's in Leicester and the two well-known Pate's in Gloucester? The Gloucester Pate's were Catholic Bishop Richard Pate who died 1565 in the Tower of London (as guest of Queen Elizabeth), and his probable nephew, Richard Pate 1516-1588, a prominent citizen and member of Parliament from Gloucester. a.. What are the connections between the Pate's in Leicestershire and the London Pate's? a.. Research of the papers of Sir Harvey Bagott, dated 1646 to 1659, which are held in the Staffordshire Record Office. These include correspondence from various people, "mainly Lady Elianor Rowe, and Sir John Pate". These could contain very valuable information on the life of Sir John after the death of Charles I until his own death in 1659. Sir John and Sir Bagott were Royalist comrades-in-arms in the civil wars. Also, Sir John's second wife Lettice was a stepdaughter of Sir Bagott. a.. Research of the papers of Dr. Morris Colles, vicar of the Melton church in the 1880s, could be very revealing if they still exist. This is likely since his son was a literary agent. In letters dated in 1886, he wrote: "I made quite a discovery here on the Pate family." ". . . I can tell you a long and strange story about [the inscription on the Pate memorial in the church]." a.. Research of the papers of Baron Francis Howard for correspondence with Edward Pate, London merchant and father of Col. Thomas Pate, particularly after Howard's return to England from serving as Governor of Virginia. This could likely include information about connections between Pate's in England and those in Virginia. A. J. Pate

Elisha Pate Mr. Elisha Pate - SAVANNAH - Mr. Elisha Pate, 85 had his transition on Thursday, May 20, 2010 at his residence under the excellent and professional care of Hospice Savannah surrounded by his loving family. Funeral arrangements are incomplete and will be announced later by Adams Funeral Services. Please Sign our Guestbook Online At WWW. adamsfunerealservicesinc.com Savannah Morning News May 23, 2010 Please sign our Obituary Guest Book at savannahnow.com/obituaries . Published in Savannah Morning News on May 23, 2010

Ann G. Pate FULTON - Ann G. Pate died Thursday, May 13, 2010. She was born Dec. 30, 1929, in Mississippi to Harold M. and Edith Steele Gilliland. She was a 1947 graduate of Itawamba Agricultural High School and a 1948 graduate of Bowling Green College of Commerce in Bowling Green, Ky. She was secretary to the president of Itawamba Community College for 21 years. She also worked at the Western Auto Store and Blue Bell Inc. She was a member of Trinity Baptist Church, where she had served as organist. She had also been a member of Southside Baptist and First Baptist churches. She was a past member of the Fulton Civic Club, Fulton Book Club, Eastern Star, Fulton Country Club, Itawamba Arts Council, Fulton Firefighters Ladies Auxiliary, Mississippi State Firefighters Auxiliary, Fulton Bridge Club, Gideons Auxiliary and Pilot Club of Fulton. She enjoyed painting, dancing, crocheting, playing piano and organ, and bridge. Services will be at 11 a.m. Saturday at Senter Funeral Home with Bro. David Aultman and Bro. Don Baggett officiating. Burial will be in Hillcrest Masonic Cemetery. Survivors include her husband, Virgil H. "Doodle" Pate of Fulton; three sons, Terry Pate (Sally) of Lawrenceville, Ga., Gary Pate (Betty) of Huntsville, Ala., and Mike Pate (Anita) of Mooreville; his mother, Edith Gilliland Grimes of Fulton; seven grandchildren, Megan Claire Pate, Anna Kathryn Pate, Caitlin Kilpatrick Pate, Jonathan Hunter Pate (fiancée, Ashly Baugher), Emily Lauren Pate, Michael Homer Pate Jr. and William Matthew Pate. She was preceded in death by her father, Harold Gilliland, and a sister, Jean Miller. Pallbearers will be Matt Upton, Rush Holcomb, Larry Pate, Howard Smith, William Parker, Bob Steele, Mark Burleson and Steve Pate. Visitation will be from 5 to 8 p.m. today and from 8 a.m. to service time Saturday.

http://randomthoughtsonhistory.blogspot.com/2009/07/personality-spotlight-henry-clay-pate.html Or this perhaps? Laynie ----- Original Message ----- From: "ThorPateLine" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 4:23 PM Subject: Re: [PATE] Famous Pates Maybe this would be of interest to someone? http://kansasboguslegislature.org/mo/pate_h_c.html Laynie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald Pait" <[email protected]> To: "Joel Pate" <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 2:32 PM Subject: Re: [PATE] Famous Pates >From what I remember about Henry Clay Pate's war record, he was not someone to be celebrated. Jerry -------Original Message------- From: Robert N. Grant Date: 5/23/2010 11:23:53 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PATE] Famous Pates Dear Pate List, I found one more thing of interest about Henry Clay Pate. The biography previously posted included a mocking article or reminiscence by a Cincinnati newspaperman about Henry Clay Pate announcing himself as an author in about 1853 or 1854 in Cincinnati. The 1850 Census for Boone County, VA, listed Edmond Pate, age 67 and occupation as "writing". His son William D. Pate was listed as age 22 and his occupation as writing. His son Henry K. Pate was listed as age 17 and a student. Also in the household was Paul C. Reed, age 43 and occupation as writing, and Roseer McCarter, age 20 and occupation as writing. This is the first time I have seen "writing" as a listed occupation, much less four persons with that occupation in the same household. There is undoubtedly an interesting story about how this family became a household of self described writers and a story which would explain why Henry Clay Pate would be willing to present himself to the world as an author, especially in a rough river city like Cincinnati where he would be subjected to the kind of ridicule expressed in the newspaperman's article. Best wishes, Bob Grant On 5/23/2010 7:29 AM, Robert N. Grant wrote: > Dear List, > > Henry Clay Pate was from Bedford County, VA. I found the following > biography at http://kansasboguslegislature.org/mo/pate_h_c.html, which > I thought the group might find of interest. > > My records list Henry Clay Pate as the > 1. son of 1852 (year of death) Edmund or Edward Pate Kanawha > County,VA, now WVA, (place of death) and Sarah "Sally" (Bailey) Pate, > 2. grandson of Matthew Pate and possibly Dabney (_____) Pate, and > 3. great grandson of 1768 Edmund Pate of Bedford County, VA, and > Martha (_____) Pate. > > Bob Grant > 15 Campo Bello Court > Menlo Park, CA 94025 > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Maybe this would be of interest to someone? http://kansasboguslegislature.org/mo/pate_h_c.html Laynie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald Pait" <[email protected]> To: "Joel Pate" <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 2:32 PM Subject: Re: [PATE] Famous Pates >From what I remember about Henry Clay Pate's war record, he was not someone to be celebrated. Jerry -------Original Message------- From: Robert N. Grant Date: 5/23/2010 11:23:53 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PATE] Famous Pates Dear Pate List, I found one more thing of interest about Henry Clay Pate. The biography previously posted included a mocking article or reminiscence by a Cincinnati newspaperman about Henry Clay Pate announcing himself as an author in about 1853 or 1854 in Cincinnati. The 1850 Census for Boone County, VA, listed Edmond Pate, age 67 and occupation as "writing". His son William D. Pate was listed as age 22 and his occupation as writing. His son Henry K. Pate was listed as age 17 and a student. Also in the household was Paul C. Reed, age 43 and occupation as writing, and Roseer McCarter, age 20 and occupation as writing. This is the first time I have seen "writing" as a listed occupation, much less four persons with that occupation in the same household. There is undoubtedly an interesting story about how this family became a household of self described writers and a story which would explain why Henry Clay Pate would be willing to present himself to the world as an author, especially in a rough river city like Cincinnati where he would be subjected to the kind of ridicule expressed in the newspaperman's article. Best wishes, Bob Grant On 5/23/2010 7:29 AM, Robert N. Grant wrote: > Dear List, > > Henry Clay Pate was from Bedford County, VA. I found the following > biography at http://kansasboguslegislature.org/mo/pate_h_c.html, which > I thought the group might find of interest. > > My records list Henry Clay Pate as the > 1. son of 1852 (year of death) Edmund or Edward Pate Kanawha > County,VA, now WVA, (place of death) and Sarah "Sally" (Bailey) Pate, > 2. grandson of Matthew Pate and possibly Dabney (_____) Pate, and > 3. great grandson of 1768 Edmund Pate of Bedford County, VA, and > Martha (_____) Pate. > > Bob Grant > 15 Campo Bello Court > Menlo Park, CA 94025 > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In confederate service he extorted money from the citizens of chambersburg pa. He was court martialed. He and jeb stuart were close friends but quarelled. They were reconciled at yellow tavern where they both died. Earlier on kansas missouri frontier he and his militia surrendered to john brown ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Sent: Sun May 23 15:23:49 2010 Subject: Re: [PATE] Famous Pates Maybe this would be of interest to someone? http://kansasboguslegislature.org/mo/pate_h_c.html Laynie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald Pait" <[email protected]> To: "Joel Pate" <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 2:32 PM Subject: Re: [PATE] Famous Pates >From what I remember about Henry Clay Pate's war record, he was not someone to be celebrated. Jerry -------Original Message------- From: Robert N. Grant Date: 5/23/2010 11:23:53 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PATE] Famous Pates Dear Pate List, I found one more thing of interest about Henry Clay Pate. The biography previously posted included a mocking article or reminiscence by a Cincinnati newspaperman about Henry Clay Pate announcing himself as an author in about 1853 or 1854 in Cincinnati. The 1850 Census for Boone County, VA, listed Edmond Pate, age 67 and occupation as "writing". His son William D. Pate was listed as age 22 and his occupation as writing. His son Henry K. Pate was listed as age 17 and a student. Also in the household was Paul C. Reed, age 43 and occupation as writing, and Roseer McCarter, age 20 and occupation as writing. This is the first time I have seen "writing" as a listed occupation, much less four persons with that occupation in the same household. There is undoubtedly an interesting story about how this family became a household of self described writers and a story which would explain why Henry Clay Pate would be willing to present himself to the world as an author, especially in a rough river city like Cincinnati where he would be subjected to the kind of ridicule expressed in the newspaperman's article. Best wishes, Bob Grant On 5/23/2010 7:29 AM, Robert N. Grant wrote: > Dear List, > > Henry Clay Pate was from Bedford County, VA. I found the following > biography at http://kansasboguslegislature.org/mo/pate_h_c.html, which > I thought the group might find of interest. > > My records list Henry Clay Pate as the > 1. son of 1852 (year of death) Edmund or Edward Pate Kanawha > County,VA, now WVA, (place of death) and Sarah "Sally" (Bailey) Pate, > 2. grandson of Matthew Pate and possibly Dabney (_____) Pate, and > 3. great grandson of 1768 Edmund Pate of Bedford County, VA, and > Martha (_____) Pate. > > Bob Grant > 15 Campo Bello Court > Menlo Park, CA 94025 > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

From what I remember about Henry Clay Pate's war record, he was not someone to be celebrated. Jerry -------Original Message------- From: Robert N. Grant Date: 5/23/2010 11:23:53 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PATE] Famous Pates Dear Pate List, I found one more thing of interest about Henry Clay Pate. The biography previously posted included a mocking article or reminiscence by a Cincinnati newspaperman about Henry Clay Pate announcing himself as an author in about 1853 or 1854 in Cincinnati. The 1850 Census for Boone County, VA, listed Edmond Pate, age 67 and occupation as "writing". His son William D. Pate was listed as age 22 and his occupation as writing. His son Henry K. Pate was listed as age 17 and a student. Also in the household was Paul C. Reed, age 43 and occupation as writing, and Roseer McCarter, age 20 and occupation as writing. This is the first time I have seen "writing" as a listed occupation, much less four persons with that occupation in the same household. There is undoubtedly an interesting story about how this family became a household of self described writers and a story which would explain why Henry Clay Pate would be willing to present himself to the world as an author, especially in a rough river city like Cincinnati where he would be subjected to the kind of ridicule expressed in the newspaperman's article. Best wishes, Bob Grant On 5/23/2010 7:29 AM, Robert N. Grant wrote: > Dear List, > > Henry Clay Pate was from Bedford County, VA. I found the following > biography at http://kansasboguslegislature.org/mo/pate_h_c.html, which > I thought the group might find of interest. > > My records list Henry Clay Pate as the > 1. son of 1852 (year of death) Edmund or Edward Pate Kanawha > County,VA, now WVA, (place of death) and Sarah "Sally" (Bailey) Pate, > 2. grandson of Matthew Pate and possibly Dabney (_____) Pate, and > 3. great grandson of 1768 Edmund Pate of Bedford County, VA, and > Martha (_____) Pate. > > Bob Grant > 15 Campo Bello Court > Menlo Park, CA 94025 > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Pate List, I found one more thing of interest about Henry Clay Pate. The biography previously posted included a mocking article or reminiscence by a Cincinnati newspaperman about Henry Clay Pate announcing himself as an author in about 1853 or 1854 in Cincinnati. The 1850 Census for Boone County, VA, listed Edmond Pate, age 67 and occupation as "writing". His son William D. Pate was listed as age 22 and his occupation as writing. His son Henry K. Pate was listed as age 17 and a student. Also in the household was Paul C. Reed, age 43 and occupation as writing, and Roseer McCarter, age 20 and occupation as writing. This is the first time I have seen "writing" as a listed occupation, much less four persons with that occupation in the same household. There is undoubtedly an interesting story about how this family became a household of self described writers and a story which would explain why Henry Clay Pate would be willing to present himself to the world as an author, especially in a rough river city like Cincinnati where he would be subjected to the kind of ridicule expressed in the newspaperman's article. Best wishes, Bob Grant On 5/23/2010 7:29 AM, Robert N. Grant wrote: > Dear List, > > Henry Clay Pate was from Bedford County, VA. I found the following > biography at http://kansasboguslegislature.org/mo/pate_h_c.html, which > I thought the group might find of interest. > > My records list Henry Clay Pate as the > 1. son of 1852 (year of death) Edmund or Edward Pate Kanawha > County,VA, now WVA, (place of death) and Sarah "Sally" (Bailey) Pate, > 2. grandson of Matthew Pate and possibly Dabney (_____) Pate, and > 3. great grandson of 1768 Edmund Pate of Bedford County, VA, and > Martha (_____) Pate. > > Bob Grant > 15 Campo Bello Court > Menlo Park, CA 94025 >

AJ and Pates. I found interesting history concernin LT. Col. Henry C. Pate CSA in the volumns Lee's Lieutenants, written by Douglas Southall Freeman. Vol 2. Page 457. March 16, 1863. Major General "Jeb" Stuart CSA was a witness at a Court Martial of Lt. Col. Henry C. Pate ot the Fifth Virginia Calvary in Culpepper. Vol. 3. Pages 421-422. May 12, 1864, Major General "Jeb" Stuart seeks out Lt. Col Henry C. Pate near the Brook Turnpike Junction of Telegraph and Mountain Road in order to give him instructions to hold his position in order to protect Stuart unttil reinforcements could be sent. Pate got up and looked squarely at the General from which he was estranged. "I will do it, he said, that and no more." Stuart thanked him and commended him for his firmness. The Colnel listened and then walked over to "Jeb" and held out his hand. Gladly and cordially grasped it and on the instant effaced all difference. L.t. Col Henry C. Pate held his position, fighting vigorously, as he said he would, but also lost his life. Upon hearing of the death of Henry Pate Stuart was grieved deeply and instantly told Mc Cllen of Pate's honorable defiant sacrifice for the Generals safety. Verrell l