Welcome back Joel!!!!!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joel Pate" <[email protected]> To: "[email protected] com" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 1:31 PM Subject: [PATE] James Lassetter > Perhaps the Jim or James Lassetter being sought is a computer science > teacher at Peach County High School, Fort Valley, GA. > Joel > -- > PATE DNA PROJECT http://www.familytreedna.com/public/pate-dna-project > Sharing Our Past, Our Present and Our Future PATE LIST SERVE > [email protected] A free E-Mail Forum for PATE Researchers > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2916 - Release Date: 06/03/10 13:25:00

Perhaps the Jim or James Lassetter being sought is a computer science teacher at Peach County High School, Fort Valley, GA. Joel -- PATE DNA PROJECT http://www.familytreedna.com/public/pate-dna-project Sharing Our Past, Our Present and Our Future PATE LIST SERVE [email protected] A free E-Mail Forum for PATE Researchers

Thanks so much for letting us know, Melanie. Get well soon, Joel - keeping you in my prayers and wishing for you a speedy recovery! Laynie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melanie Dennis" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 9:04 PM Subject: [PATE] Joel Pate- Pate List Administrator Dear Pate Researchers, Just wanted to let all of you know that our awesome list administrator, Joel Pate, was in the hospital from May 29th to June 3rd and will be offline for a few more days. He said to tell all of you that he hopes to return as soon as possible. I think I speak for everyone when I say Get Well Joel!! Melanie Dennis Assistant Administrator for the Pate-L ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Joel~ Very sorry to hear you have been in the hospital. Thinking of you and wishing you well! Miss you on the Pate Listserve! Best Wishes~ Elizabeth Balckmann Williamsburg, Va [email protected] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Johnette McDuffie" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 2:19 PM Subject: Re: [PATE] Joel Pate- Pate List Administrator > Praying for you Joel. Johnette Pate McDuffie > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf > Of Melanie Dennis > Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 6:05 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [PATE] Joel Pate- Pate List Administrator > > Dear Pate Researchers, > > Just wanted to let all of you know that our awesome list administrator, > Joel > Pate, was in the hospital from May 29th to June 3rd and will be offline > for > a few more days. > > He said to tell all of you that he hopes to return as soon as possible. > > I think I speak for everyone when I say Get Well Joel!! > > Melanie Dennis > Assistant Administrator for the Pate-L > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2915 - Release Date: 06/03/10 > 18:25:00 > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Since my McDuffie is Scottish, I've really enjoyed learning about the Scots ( I also have Irish - and they are interesting too). They also have Highland Games at Stone Mountain, Atlanta, GA. Biggest event I think is Highland Games on Grandfather Mountain in North Carolina. I've seen the Games from Stone Mountain on TV, and two years ago had planned the Attend Grandfather Mountain ( and Pate gathering in Yorktown), but health problems prevented. Wish I'd known about all this back in my 'younger' traveling days! Pate also includes meaning of ' bald'. I have more information on that somewhere I'll look up. But today I'm off to find Jim Lasseter !! Johnette Pate McDuffie -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Robinson Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 4:58 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [PATE] Scotland, Clans, and the Pates Basically, if your surname is on a Clan list of seps, for $20 you can join. Pretty simple! If you've never been to a "Clan Games Event", I highly recommend. They have an annual event in Green Cove Springs, Florida, in February. I've attended the past four years. Lots of fun. http://neflgames.com/ I believe that the majority of Pate descendants are of English descent; however, a few did come from the land up north. Could they have been run out of Scotland by the English Pates? I really enjoy the website, ScotClans, the tab "What's My Clan" offers a Surname Search feature. I've enjoyed searching all my Great Great Generation surnames, five out of eight can be associated with a Clan. If you search "Pate" (Pate is short for "Patrick"), you find that it's a sep of Clan "MacLabhruinn" or "MacLaren". The Clan History from this site starts with: "The name of the clan MacLaren is known in Gaelic as "Clann mhic Labhrainn". The origins of the clan are shadowy and remain speculative, although one traditional account claims descent from Lorn, son of Erc, who landed in Argyll in A.D. 503." If you're interested in this clan, recommend visiting their website: Clan MacLaren Society of North America, LTD. http://www.clanmaclarenna.org/ J. Randall Lawson, President, 20205 Maple Leaf Court, Montgomery Village, Maryland 20879-1137 [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2916 - Release Date: 06/03/10 18:25:00

Dittos, Joel.  Sending prayers, love Angie Medford Smith     --- On Fri, 6/4/10, Beth Balckmann <[email protected]> wrote: From: Beth Balckmann <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [PATE] Joel Pate- Pate List Administrator To: [email protected] Date: Friday, June 4, 2010, 10:34 AM Joel~ Very sorry to hear you have been in the hospital.  Thinking of you and wishing you well! Miss you on the Pate Listserve! Best Wishes~ Elizabeth Balckmann Williamsburg, Va [email protected] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Johnette McDuffie" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 2:19 PM Subject: Re: [PATE] Joel Pate- Pate List Administrator > Praying for you Joel.  Johnette Pate McDuffie > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf > Of Melanie Dennis > Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 6:05 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [PATE] Joel Pate- Pate List Administrator > > Dear Pate Researchers, > > Just wanted to let all of you know that our awesome list administrator, > Joel > Pate, was in the hospital from May 29th to June 3rd and will be offline > for > a few more days. > > He said to tell all of you that he hopes to return as soon as possible. > > I think I speak for everyone when I say Get Well Joel!! > > Melanie Dennis > Assistant Administrator for the Pate-L > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2915 - Release Date: 06/03/10 > 18:25:00 > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Praying for you Joel. Johnette Pate McDuffie -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Melanie Dennis Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 6:05 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [PATE] Joel Pate- Pate List Administrator Dear Pate Researchers, Just wanted to let all of you know that our awesome list administrator, Joel Pate, was in the hospital from May 29th to June 3rd and will be offline for a few more days. He said to tell all of you that he hopes to return as soon as possible. I think I speak for everyone when I say Get Well Joel!! Melanie Dennis Assistant Administrator for the Pate-L ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2915 - Release Date: 06/03/10 18:25:00

Basically, if your surname is on a Clan list of seps, for $20 you can join. Pretty simple! If you've never been to a "Clan Games Event", I highly recommend. They have an annual event in Green Cove Springs, Florida, in February. I've attended the past four years. Lots of fun. http://neflgames.com/ I believe that the majority of Pate descendants are of English descent; however, a few did come from the land up north. Could they have been run out of Scotland by the English Pates? I really enjoy the website, ScotClans, the tab "What's My Clan" offers a Surname Search feature. I've enjoyed searching all my Great Great Generation surnames, five out of eight can be associated with a Clan. If you search "Pate" (Pate is short for "Patrick"), you find that it's a sep of Clan "MacLabhruinn" or "MacLaren". The Clan History from this site starts with: "The name of the clan MacLaren is known in Gaelic as "Clann mhic Labhrainn". The origins of the clan are shadowy and remain speculative, although one traditional account claims descent from Lorn, son of Erc, who landed in Argyll in A.D. 503." If you're interested in this clan, recommend visiting their website: Clan MacLaren Society of North America, LTD. http://www.clanmaclarenna.org/ J. Randall Lawson, President, 20205 Maple Leaf Court, Montgomery Village, Maryland 20879-1137 [email protected]

Jeremy, We know through ship passenger manifests that Thoroughgood emigrated to colonial Virginia from England c. 1657, though there are some indications that he may have emigrated earlier than that. Unfortunately, no one has been able to locate his genealogy in England. "Thoroughgood" is a thoroughly British name, though sometimes spelled "Thorowgood". It is a surname, so apparently his name came from a family friend or relative. There was a Thoroughgood and a Pate who worked together in the king's service at one time. There was a well-known man, Adam Thoroughgood, who came to Virginia roughly the same time as our Thoroughgood. In fact, I believe his home is the oldest home still standing in Virginia. No connections have been discovered between them. It is possible that his family origins could be discovered in English records through diligent research, perhaps within some of the documents I noted in my paper on Sir John Pate. That is why some serious Pate researchers in England could be very valuable contributors to Pate genealogy. It is a mystery why none can be located. For more distant origins, you can look at the haplogroup of the Thoroughgood group in the Pate DNA Project. One of the members of our group (I'm in it too) recently took the deep clade test by Family Tree DNA, which offers the most comprehensive deep clade testing panels available on the market. This test is designed to determine or confirm the exact subclade or branch of a haplogroup. His test confirmed that our haplogroup is the basic "I2b1", which does not breakdown into further subgroups. His results apply to us all in that group. In reviewing the information provided by FTDNA, it appears that our ancient family origin (thousands of years ago), based on our haplogroup, is between northern France and Scandinavia, with migration flows possibly in both directions. Our haplogroup is most common in Scandinavia. We likely came to England through the Viking/Norse invasions and settlements. To learn more about this history, you can go to this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danelaw A. J. Pate _____________________________________ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 17:09:01 -0400 From: Jeremy Utt <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [PATE] British Coat of Arms Unfortunately, at this point I do not know whether my Pate line was Scottish, English, Welsh, or French (or any other origin). Perhaps a fellow member of the Thoroughgood Pate DNA group could enlighten me. Jeremy Utt

Having not heard from Joel for several days and missing his posts on the Listserve, I was beginning to be concerned about him, so gave him a call at his home early Thursday evening, apparently about the same time as Melanie was posting her message. I was happy and relieved to hear him answer the phone. He sounded a little tired but otherwise was looking forward to getting his full strength back in a few days. As he put it, he had to come home to get well. It is at times like this, when out of commission for a few days, you fully realize how valuable and irreplaceable a resource that Joel is for the Pate family. It should also deepen our gratitude for his tireless and unselfish contributions to Pate genealogy in general, as well as to individual persons seeking answers for their personal genealogies. My best wishes to Joel for a speedy return to his usual strength and vigor. A. J. Pate _________________________________________ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 18:04:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Melanie Dennis <[email protected]> Subject: [PATE] Joel Pate- Pate List Administrator Dear Pate Researchers, Just wanted to let all of you know that our awesome list administrator, Joel Pate, was in the hospital from May 29th to June 3rd and will be offline for a few more days. He said to tell all of you that he hopes to return as soon as possible. I think I speak for everyone when I say Get Well Joel!! Melanie Dennis Assistant Administrator for the Pate-L

Dear Joel, Get well soon !!!   Tarrie Pate Meehan --- On Fri, 6/4/10, Melanie Dennis <[email protected]> wrote: From: Melanie Dennis <[email protected]> Subject: [PATE] Joel Pate- Pate List Administrator To: [email protected] Date: Friday, June 4, 2010, 1:04 AM Dear Pate Researchers, Just wanted to let all of you know that our awesome list administrator, Joel Pate, was in the hospital from May 29th to June 3rd and will be offline for a few more days.  He said to tell all of you that he hopes to return as soon as possible. I think I speak for everyone when I say Get Well Joel!! Melanie Dennis Assistant Administrator for the Pate-L ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you Clovis. I hope you are well. Jeremy > Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 18:37:05 -0500 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PATE] British Coat of Arms > CC: [email protected] > > That's a question I would like an answer to Jeremy. I'm in the Thorogood group (two of the Pate family I belong to did the DNA test) If anyone knows please stand up and make a nice speech :) > -- > Clovis Byars Herring _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2

That's a question I would like an answer to Jeremy. I'm in the Thorogood group (two of the Pate family I belong to did the DNA test) If anyone knows please stand up and make a nice speech :) -- Clovis Byars Herring

Well, would you believe I think I found Jim Lasseter !!! I started making inquiries and lucked up. If it is him, he lives at Amboy. I am hoping to go tomorrow and see if I can find him. He doesn't have a regular phone listed. Johnette -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lindy Hard Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 12:32 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PATE] Trying to find Jim Lasseter? I have found the obituary for Jim's mother Evelyn Haman Lasseter. It does not give her children. I believe Rochelle is in Wilcox Co GA. The Macon [GA] Telegraph, 11 Aug 2005 Evelyn H Lasseter-- Savannah--Evelyn Lasseter, 91, of Savannah, formerly of Rochelle, passed away Tue. Services Thursday in First Baptist Church of Rochelle.... Interment Morningside Cemetery [Rochelle].... Frazier & Son Funeral Home, Rochelle. I found her using Ancestry.com Family Tree to find the "correct" Evelyn Lasseter and searched genealogybank.com for an obituary. I was hoping the obituary would give children's names, residences. Lindy ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Robinson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 5:59 AM Subject: [PATE] Trying to find Jim Lasseter? > I could not find contact info for Jim, but hoped someone might know, or maybe he would read our postings. > > Anybody? > > He claims to have the powder horn? > > Johnette, can you contact Francis? > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > __________ NOD32 1.1158 (20050629) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.nod32.com > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2915 - Release Date: 06/03/10 06:25:00

Dear Pate Researchers, Just wanted to let all of you know that our awesome list administrator, Joel Pate, was in the hospital from May 29th to June 3rd and will be offline for a few more days. He said to tell all of you that he hopes to return as soon as possible. I think I speak for everyone when I say Get Well Joel!! Melanie Dennis Assistant Administrator for the Pate-L

Am I right in understanding that any person with the Pate surname could apply for membership in the Clan MacLaren? That is what I thought I read. Please let me know. Also, would membership be available to people descended from a Pate family line? My mother was a Pate by birth. Unfortunately, at this point I do not know whether my Pate line was Scottish, English, Welsh, or French (or any other origin). Perhaps a fellow member of the Thoroughgood Pate DNA group could enlighten me. Jeremy Utt > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 15:02:05 -0400 > Subject: Re: [PATE] British Coat of Arms > > Very interesting, John, thanks for the lesson! > > There are many cross-references in my own Pate (maternal side) of the family > with the name 'McLauren' - so could that also be part of that same Scottish > Clan? > > Laynie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Robinson" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 8:30 AM > Subject: [PATE] British Coat of Arms > > > This issue comes up from time to time and I provide the link to the British > College of Arms. This is the government website that governs Arms. > > http://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/ > > Arms are not granted to Families, but to individuals. As such, there is NO > Pate Family Coat of Arms. > > There are many websites that display Arms, which are associated with > surnames. This is one: > > http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp.fc/qx/pate-family-crest.htm > > I do not recommend this site, just included it as an example. > > If you're feeling Scottish, there is a Scottish Clan, MacLabhruinn or > MacLaren, that includes the Pate or Patrick surname: > > http://www.scotclans.com/scottish_clans/clan_maclaren/ > > Again, I'm not recommending this website, but I find it an interesting read. > I joined Clan Gunn, based upon my parents surnames. Both Robinson and Wilson > are seps of Clan Gunn. > > Any Pate or Pate descendant would be considered for membership in Clan > MacLabhruinn. It would also be proper to wear the clan badge and tartan. > This is the Clan MacLaren Society of North America: > > http://www.clanmaclarenna.org/ > > I would rather be a Scottish Warrior than a British Lord. > Aut Pax Aut Bellum > (Either peace or war) > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4

Thanks for this info , I will call Frazier & Sons Funeral Home tomorrow. My McDuffie family are from Rochelle. I'll see if I can get some more info with their help maybe. Johnette -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lindy Hard Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 12:32 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PATE] Trying to find Jim Lasseter? I have found the obituary for Jim's mother Evelyn Haman Lasseter. It does not give her children. I believe Rochelle is in Wilcox Co GA. The Macon [GA] Telegraph, 11 Aug 2005 Evelyn H Lasseter-- Savannah--Evelyn Lasseter, 91, of Savannah, formerly of Rochelle, passed away Tue. Services Thursday in First Baptist Church of Rochelle.... Interment Morningside Cemetery [Rochelle].... Frazier & Son Funeral Home, Rochelle. I found her using Ancestry.com Family Tree to find the "correct" Evelyn Lasseter and searched genealogybank.com for an obituary. I was hoping the obituary would give children's names, residences. Lindy ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Robinson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 5:59 AM Subject: [PATE] Trying to find Jim Lasseter? > I could not find contact info for Jim, but hoped someone might know, or maybe he would read our postings. > > Anybody? > > He claims to have the powder horn? > > Johnette, can you contact Francis? > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > __________ NOD32 1.1158 (20050629) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.nod32.com > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2915 - Release Date: 06/03/10 06:25:00

I have found the obituary for Jim's mother Evelyn Haman Lasseter. It does not give her children. I believe Rochelle is in Wilcox Co GA. The Macon [GA] Telegraph, 11 Aug 2005 Evelyn H Lasseter-- Savannah--Evelyn Lasseter, 91, of Savannah, formerly of Rochelle, passed away Tue. Services Thursday in First Baptist Church of Rochelle.... Interment Morningside Cemetery [Rochelle].... Frazier & Son Funeral Home, Rochelle. I found her using Ancestry.com Family Tree to find the "correct" Evelyn Lasseter and searched genealogybank.com for an obituary. I was hoping the obituary would give children's names, residences. Lindy ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Robinson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 5:59 AM Subject: [PATE] Trying to find Jim Lasseter? > I could not find contact info for Jim, but hoped someone might know, or maybe he would read our postings. > > Anybody? > > He claims to have the powder horn? > > Johnette, can you contact Francis? > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > __________ NOD32 1.1158 (20050629) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.nod32.com > >

Would be interested to know if any of that Lassiter/Lasseter family went to AR with that migrating group of Pate/Hankin families mid-1800' - or joined them later. Nita Fry -----Original Message----- From: John Robinson <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:59 am Subject: [PATE] Trying to find Jim Lasseter? I could not find contact info for Jim, but hoped someone might know, or maybe he would read our postings. Anybody? He claims to have the powder horn? Johnette, can you contact Francis? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

John, This whole issue of coats of arms is very complex and confusing, and pretty tedious as well. You are exactly correct in stating that coats of arms were not granted to a surname but only to individuals. However, once arms were granted to an individual, they became hereditary for all his legitimate male descendants, as an ancestral right. This distinction is made clear at the website you cite for the College of Arms (first FAQ): "Coats of arms belong to individuals. For any person to have a right to a coat of arms they must either have had it granted to them or be descended in the legitimate male line from a person to whom arms were granted or confirmed in the past." Using Sir John Pate as an example, he and his brothers inherited arms from their father Henry. His father had inherited his arms from his own father Edward. We may never know, but it appears likely that the origin of this coat of arms dates back at least to Sir John's greatgrandfather Edward. This family of Pate men had been associated with several kings in the Henry line, being awarded houses and lands by the king. Apparently the king had granted arms to one of these men due to his courage in battle or for his loyalty. Sir John had no surviving male heirs, but his daughters, through the laws of heraldry, were able to pass their Pate arms to their sons (see escutheon of pretense) through quartering. Sir John's brothers and uncles could continue passing the inherited arms to their male Pate descendants. I attempted to make this as clear as possible, with some detail, in my recent paper on Sir John Pate in the section titled "The Pate coat of arms". The following excerpt is from that paper: "Technically, if we were still subjects of England, which continues to regulate the use of arms, none of us would have any right to use those arms, unless we could prove we were direct [male Pate] descendants of a brother or paternal uncle of Sir John Pate." As I also pointed out in that paper, there are at least two other Pate coats of arms completely different from that of the Pate's of Sysonby/Kettleby. These will be discussed in another paper I plan to write sometime in the future. I have not done any research on Scottish arms. A. J. Pate ________________________________________________ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 08:30:50 -0400 From: "John Robinson" <[email protected]> Subject: [PATE] British Coat of Arms This issue comes up from time to time and I provide the link to the British College of Arms. This is the government website that governs Arms. http://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/ Arms are not granted to Families, but to individuals. As such, there is NO Pate Family Coat of Arms.