Nita, The book we have is a history of the military action that was given to my father-in-law about the time he was discharged in 1919. I got his military record from NARA. He also trained in Texas. This was during the big flu epidemic and some of the men got sick with the flu. His brother came down with pneumonia on the ship to France and was put in the hospital in France. My father-in-law went straight to the front and saw a lot of warfare of the trenches, mud, bullets, etc. The books list the officers, but of the pfc's, only those who were killed or died. There are two books. One is "History of the 90th Division" and the other is "357th Infantry, It's History from Organization Until Part of the Army of Occupation, 1917-1919." There are only a few pictures and they are of battle locations, equipment, and various other scenes. Not many have identifiable US Soldiers in them. If you would like to know more, send me your phone number by private email and I will call you. It will not increase my phone bill.                                                              Billie P. Grunden --- On Tue, 8/3/10, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [PATE] Pates in WW 1 TX & OK 90th Div To: [email protected] Date: Tuesday, August 3, 2010, 11:15 AM Hi Billie, While sorting out old e-mails to save or delete, I ran across this one from Jan 30th.  At the time I had either kept it to review later or actually may have overlooked  the importance of your reference to the 90th TX/OK Division in WW1. Hubby Bill's birth father, Wm. D. Pate, was in that division, enlisted in Kingston, OK, sent to TX for training and was  sent to France for a year and discharged in 1919.  For several years we have been looking for Wm. D.'s death certificate so we could apply for a VA memorial burial plaque for his grave in Weleetka, OK, to commemorate his service.  Recently I stumbled upon the death certificate and have now applied for the final paperwork noting his discharge date that we need to reconstruct his  service  record (St. Louis VA records burned in 1973). Is there anything else of interest regarding service and other Pates in your father-in-law's book?  Is that the memorial book that I found a copy of in the Madill, OK, library covering the area's service people?  I was able to get a copy of the page regarding Wm.D.'s enlistment, service, and his picture from the book. Anything new there? Thanks for anything you can provide. Nita Fry -----Original Message----- From: Billie Grunden <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:26 pm Subject: [PATE] John T. Pate While looking at my father-in-law's WWI book of the history of his division, the 90th Division composed of men from Texas and Oklahoma, I noticed a long list of names of those killed in action. John T. Pate, Company G, 359th Infantry was listed as being killed on Oct. 26. I assume this was 1918.  Does anyone have any interest in this man? I would be glad to share the book with you.                                                  Billie Pate Grunden       ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Photograph available - http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/oaoa/obituary.aspx?n=richard-alton-pate&pid=143766257 Richard Alton Pate (1944-2010) ODESSA July 16, 1944-June 25, 2010. Richard Alton Pate passed June 25, 2010 at Hospice House in Odessa, Tx. His final days were spent surrounded by family and friends whom he had touched throughout his truly extraordinary life. He is preceded in death by his parents Alton Woodrow Pate and Dora Alyne Henslee and his brother Dudley Pate. Richard was born in Brownfield, Texas. His love of gardening began on a family farm outside of Hobbs, New Mexico and continued throughout his life. Among his many contributions to the Permian Basin Master Gardeners included developing a website devoted to regional education. In 2006, the site won first place at the State Master Gardener Conference. He learned leather crafting from his father who had a boot shop in Hobbs, as well. After serving his country in the Navy, he became a Texas Department of Public Safety trooper in Childress, Tx. In 1969, he came to the Ector County Sheriffs Office, where he served until 1976. From 1976 to 1979, he owned a helicopter business in Ozona, Tx. He returned to the Ector County Sheriff's Office in 1979 and was promoted through the ranks to his final position of inspector. Left to cherish his memory are his beloved wife, Kay Pate and his Mother in Law Francis Cain; his daughter Laura K. Stark and husband Scott of Roswell, NM; daughter Marcy A. Wilson and husband David of Ft. Worth, Tx; and son Corey B. Pate of Kyoto, Japan. Richard was known as "Grambo" to his seven grandchildren and one great grandchild: Phillip Stark and daughter Claire, Paul Stark, Matthew Michael and Lauren Palmore and Melissa and Mark Wilson. He is survived by his sister Delilah Grainger and family of Luling, Tx his Aunt Hazel Walzer and family of Colorado City, Tx as well as his Brother in Law Larry Cain and family of Odessa, Tx and many nieces, nephews, cousins and friends. A memorial service celebrating his life will be held at Sunset Memorial Gardens on Monday, June 28 at 2 p.m. In lieu of flowers, the family asks that tax-deductible gifts be made to Hospice House Foundation, Inc: 903 N. Sam Houston Ave, Odessa, Tx 797

List - earlier this year, either Karen Bordon or Brenda Green sent me information regarding Emanuel Pate that seemed to indicate there may have been a close association in AL between Emanuel Pate and a Joseph Looney, which continued into the Civil War with both of them being captured and interned at Chase Prison Camp. Does anyone have any idea who this Joseph Looney may have been? I sent the following e-mail to the Looney-L list. *************************** Does anyone know who was the Pvt. J. J. (thought to be Joseph) Looney, Confederate Army, 34th Unit of the AL. Reg Branch, died Feb 21, 1865 in Chase Prison Camp? If this is a Joseph Looney, he was close on census records to an Emanuel Pate who was also in that unit. Pate family note that Joseph and Emanuel probably were friends. In Bill's Pate family tree was a Joseph Looney Pate. Bill's grandmother was a Looney. Trying to separate this Looney from the Pates. Thanks. Nita Fry ************************ Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. Thanks, Nita Fry ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Billie, While sorting out old e-mails to save or delete, I ran across this one from Jan 30th. At the time I had either kept it to review later or actually may have overlooked the importance of your reference to the 90th TX/OK Division in WW1. Hubby Bill's birth father, Wm. D. Pate, was in that division, enlisted in Kingston, OK, sent to TX for training and was sent to France for a year and discharged in 1919. For several years we have been looking for Wm. D.'s death certificate so we could apply for a VA memorial burial plaque for his grave in Weleetka, OK, to commemorate his service. Recently I stumbled upon the death certificate and have now applied for the final paperwork noting his discharge date that we need to reconstruct his service record (St. Louis VA records burned in 1973). Is there anything else of interest regarding service and other Pates in your father-in-law's book? Is that the memorial book that I found a copy of in the Madill, OK, library covering the area's service people? I was able to get a copy of the page regarding Wm.D.'s enlistment, service, and his picture from the book. Anything new there? Thanks for anything you can provide. Nita Fry -----Original Message----- From: Billie Grunden <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:26 pm Subject: [PATE] John T. Pate While looking at my father-in-law's WWI book of the history of his division, the 90th Division composed of men from Texas and Oklahoma, I noticed a long list of names of those killed in action. John T. Pate, Company G, 359th Infantry was listed as being killed on Oct. 26. I assume this was 1918. Does anyone have any interest in this man? I would be glad to share the book with you. Billie Pate Grunden ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Linda said:? "Joel was moved from the Hospital today to TMH Rehab.? We are both happy about that.? I do not know how long he will be there, but a good guess is about a week, give or take.? It is OK to visit him, but please do so after 2 or 3 in the afternoon.? He has 3 sessions a day with the therapists, but will be done about that time a of day.? He is scheduled to get his stitches out tomorrow and he is happy about that.? With his head shaved he looks a lot like Kojak.? Thanks to all of you for your concern and prayers.? When things got rough, I thought about all of the good people who were praying for him and it renewed my strength. Love Linda." Lets all continue to pray that Joel will recover quickly.? A man like Joel does not like to be on the sick list and some time rushes his own recovery.? This is wonderful news. Cloovis

My prayers are with Joel for a quick recovery. We all miss you! Carol

In a private email, Clovis Herring suggested that I send the inscription to a college or high school that taught Latin. That jogged my memory that I had previously, several years ago, requested a Latin translation from the University of St. Thomas, a Catholic university here in Houston. I can't recall what I sent, but I did receive a response. Late Friday, I sent an email to Dr. Robert Yankow, head of the Classical Languages Dept. at St. Thomas. I will post his response when/if I receive one. I also sent him the briefer inscription on the memorial for the grandparents of Sir John Pate. Thanks, Ellen, for the same thought. Proves the adage: Great minds run in the same channel. Also, thanks to Bill and Johnette for responding. No harm done if we happen to get several translations. Then we can compare and select the best from each. A. J.

I don't know whether any of the major universities in my area are specifically adept in languages, but hope to check in at the University of N.C. and Duke University on that score. There's also a catholic high school in my area and a higher level Catholic school not far away. Worth trying. thanks Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [PATE] Latin translation for Pate memorial Have you tried or do you live near a major university that offers advanced degrees in Languages. University and research staff has saved "my day" many times. Just a thought from my past. ellen > > I gave the inscription to a Dominican priest who couldn't find anyone in > his priory who could translate it. He sent it to a scholar he knew, but > she returned it saying someone had borrowed her dictionary but not > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Nita, Yes, it does. So does replying to to the whole digest message instead of one of the individual emails in the message. If there are several prior messages, I would just delete the older ones and keep the newest one. -- Melanie Dennis [email protected] On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:02 -0400, [email protected] wrote: > > Melanie, > > Sorry about the cold. Get well soon. > > Have a question about the 50 kb limit. Does our forwarding, or replying, > with the prior message(s) included drive the 50 KB limit off the cliff? > I notice we are not deleting the old e-mail before sending a reply. > > It is very handy to have the old message included with the new reply but > I can see using this method of replying could eventually cause some of > our replies to become oversized after numerous replies on one subject. > > Please advise. > > Thanks for your efforts. > > Nita Fry > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Melanie Dennis <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Fri, Jul 30, 2010 12:11 pm > Subject: [PATE] a note from the assistant moderator > > > Pate List Family, > > > > Apologizes to everyone if it appears that I have been lurking in the > > background and neglecting my duties as assistant moderator. I have been > > around and doing some admin duties behind the scenes, but 12 hour > > workdays with a two hour commute (each way) finally took their toll on > > me in the form of a nasty summer cold. > > > > First things first: > > > > Joel, I hope your speedy recovery continue and we see you back on the > > list very soon. > > > > Now for the moderator stuff: > > > > I receive a daily email that lets me know how many emails sent to the > > list were “caught” in the server and did not go out to the other > > members. Most of these emails are the usual spam messages that we know > > and love (That poor Nigerian prince and his money woes!). However an > > increasing number are legitimate messages from list subscribers that > > have been rejected recently for one or more of the following reasons: > > > > The message is too big (50KB is the max); the message came with an > > attachment (photos and signature files are the usual culprit); or the > > person sending the message is not actually subscribed to the list. To > > ensure your message reaches your intended recipient(s), please double > > check that it is under 50KB, written in plain text, and you are sending > > it from an email address that is subscribed to the Pate mailing list. > > (Some users have more than one personal email account and all of their > > accounts may not be subscribed). > > > > Please Note: You *may* be accidentally unsubscribed from the list > > because of multiple PATE list messages being rejected (bounced) off the > > server that hosts your email. If you get an unsubscribe email and you > > didn’t intend to unsubscribe from the list, please email me and I will > > add you back. Adding [email protected] to your address book sometimes > > solves that problem. > > > > If you have any questions, please email me. > > > > -- > > Melanie Dennis > > [email protected] > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > body of > > the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Have you tried or do you live near a major university that offers advanced degrees in Languages. University and research staff has saved "my day" many times. Just a thought from my past. ellen > > I gave the inscription to a Dominican priest who couldn't find anyone in > his priory who could translate it. He sent it to a scholar he knew, but > she returned it saying someone had borrowed her dictionary but not >

A.J. I gave the inscription to a Dominican priest who couldn't find anyone in his priory who could translate it. He sent it to a scholar he knew, but she returned it saying someone had borrowed her dictionary but not returned it. I have given it to a young lady who will spend a year in St. Louis completing her preparations to become a nun. She says she will try to find someone knowledgeable to work on it. Don't know how long that will take, but hope it may yield something. Gerald Pait is right in other opinions I have received about it. So many factors make it difficult to translate with certainty. Bill Pate ----- Original Message ----- From: Johnette McDuffie<mailto:[email protected]> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [PATE] Followup on Latin translation for Pate memorial inMeltonMowbray church A.J. I'm anxiously awaiting also. I had sent it to my son's girlfriend, whose father knows latin, but have not received answer back. Time gets away from me and I had not realized how long it has been. I'm sending a reminder as soon as I hang up the phone with you. Johnette -----Original Message----- From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of AJ Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 5:24 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: [PATE] Followup on Latin translation for Pate memorial in MeltonMowbray church On this past May 25, I posted a request for a Latin scholar to translate an inscription on a memorial to Sir John and Elizabeth Pate in St. Mary's church in Melton Mowbray. The memorial was placed there c. 1680 by their two daughters and honors them both, but only Elizabeth is buried there. Sir John was buried in London (for reasons unknown). There was interest indicated on the Listserve in having this translation done, but none has been proffered at this point. Below I am reposting the inscription as a reminder for anyone who may have, or know someone who has, the knowledge to provide the translation. We will not know the importance of this inscription until it is translated. It may or may not contain new information. But it is interesting that it has not been translated into English, to my knowledge, for about 330 years. Gerald Pait pointed out that Latin can be a very complex language to translate, since words are subject to many interpretations and may vary according to purpose and level of usage and the age in which they are written. This inscription may avoid some of those problems. We know that it was a formal memorial to deceased parents, and we know it was written c. 1680. These facts should make the translator's task a little simpler. In broad terms, a rough translation can be made. The Latin phrase "Johanne Pate (de Sysonby in comitatu Leicestriensi) baronettu" can be translated as "John Pate (of Sysonby in the county of Leicester) baronet". There are tributes to both John and Elizabeth. The date 1659 refers to the year of Sir John's death and his burial at St. Giles near London. I think it may be saying that he was 67 years old at his death, which would make his birth in 1592. It also has the date of Elizabeth's death as 1628 at age 37, which would make the year of her birth as 1591. As contributors of the memorial, both daughters' names are noted, and it appears the other children are noted in total. It ends with the sentiment that their bodies are awaiting the Resurrection. There is also another arms and briefer Latin inscription on the wall of the same church for Edward and Katherine Pate of Kettleby, the grandparents of Sir John Pate. I will post it after this one has been translated. A. J. Pate ____________________ The following is quoted from Nichols, Vol. II, Part I, p. 253: In the south transept, now called 'The Old Chancel', formerly a separate chapel, on a mural alabaster monument are these arms: On a wreath, Argent, three text r's Sable; Pate; impaling, Barry of eight, Argent and Gules per pale countercharged, in chief a greyhound currant, Sable, Skipworth. Crest, a stag's head caboshed, Or; a raven reguardant, with wings expanded, Sable. The inscription is: M. S. Johannis & Elizabethae Pate; quos Deus una, Mors gemina carne fecit, hos rejunxit hoc marmor, Siste, & aspecta, quisquis es qui praeteris, Johanne Pate (de Sysonby in comitatu Leicestriensi) baronettu, virum egregium, Antiqua familia Patorurn de Kettlebee ortu, natalibus majorem, vitae mortisque intregru, affertorem causae Angustae Caroli Primi (semper beatae memoriae Principem) strenuu, forte, fidu, votu piu a quo licet cecidit, nil addat celebrius Famae tuba. Quem juxta recumbit (velut in amplexu) Elizabetha, generis sui gloria, exemplar vitae probae, mortisque benedictae, Gulielmi Skipwith, comitatus Leicestrensis, militis & baronetti, filia, conjux fidissima, quae peperit 5 filios (omnes emortuos) filiasque totide, quaru superstites Abigail, Thomae Smith, de Hatherton, in comitatu Cestrensi, baronetti, & Francisca Caroli Carington, Barone de Wootton, comitatus Warwicensis, filli natu 4, conjuges dilectissimae, & moerentes cohaerdes, sumptibus suis monumentu hoc impar parentibus posuerunt charissimis, quoru ille ritu sepulcrali donatus apud Stu Egidiu prope Lond. anno 1659, aetatis sexagesimo septimo; Illa, sub hac terra, die Augusti decimo septimo, anno 1628, aetatis suae 37, Resurrectionem praestolantes. Amen. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<http://www.avg.com/> Version: 8.5.441 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3035 - Release Date: 07/28/10 17:38:00 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

God is good! This is such wonderful news, Clovis, and thank you for the address and keeping us posted about Joel's progress! Laynie ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 9:50 AM Subject: [PATE] JOEL Good morning all. Joel is coming along and may go to rehab soon. Linda says he may be there before any cards or notes could get to Florida. So here is the address at home and Linda will get them to him. Joel Pate, 2417 Limerick Dr. Tallahassee, FL. 32309-3110. Can't keep a good man down long. This is good news. Clovis ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Good morning all. Joel is coming along and may go to rehab soon. Linda says he may be there before any cards or notes could get to Florida. So here is the address at home and Linda will get them to him. Joel Pate, 2417 Limerick Dr. Tallahassee, FL. 32309-3110. Can't keep a good man down long. This is good news. Clovis

?No apologies necessary Melanie. That's a big job for anyone, much less someone with your schedule. Thank you for taking on the job. Clovis -----Original Message----- From: Melanie Dennis <[email protected]> To: pate <[email protected]> Sent: Fri, Jul 30, 2010 12:53 pm Subject: [PATE] a note from the assistant moderator Pate List Family, Apologizes to everyone if it appears that I have been lurking in the background and neglecting my duties as assistant moderator. I have been around and doing some admin duties behind the scenes, but 12 hour workdays with a two hour commute (each way) finally took their toll on me in the form of a nasty summer cold. First things first: Joel, I hope your speedy recovery continue and we see you back on the list very soon. Now for the moderator stuff: I receive a daily email that lets me know how many emails sent to the list were “caught” in the server and did not go out to the other members. Most of these emails are the usual spam messages that we know and love (That poor Nigerian prince and his money woes!). However an increasing number are legitimate messages from list subscribers that have been rejected recently for one or more of the following reasons: The message is too big (50KB is the max); the message came with an attachment (photos and signature files are the usual culprit); or the person sending the message is not actually subscribed to the list. To ensure your message reaches your intended recipient(s), please double check that it is under 50KB, written in plain text, and you are sending it from an email address that is subscribed to the Pate mailing list. (Some users have more than one personal email account and all of their accounts may not be subscribed). Please Note: You *may* be accidentally unsubscribed from the list because of multiple PATE list messages being rejected (bounced) off the server that hosts your email. If you get an unsubscribe email and you didn’t intend to unsubscribe from the list, please email me and I will add you back. Adding [email protected] to your address book sometimes solves that problem. If you have any questions, please email me. -- Melanie Dennis [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Melanie, Sorry about the cold. Get well soon. Have a question about the 50 kb limit. Does our forwarding, or replying, with the prior message(s) included drive the 50 KB limit off the cliff? I notice we are not deleting the old e-mail before sending a reply. It is very handy to have the old message included with the new reply but I can see using this method of replying could eventually cause some of our replies to become oversized after numerous replies on one subject. Please advise. Thanks for your efforts. Nita Fry -----Original Message----- From: Melanie Dennis <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, Jul 30, 2010 12:11 pm Subject: [PATE] a note from the assistant moderator Pate List Family, Apologizes to everyone if it appears that I have been lurking in the background and neglecting my duties as assistant moderator. I have been around and doing some admin duties behind the scenes, but 12 hour workdays with a two hour commute (each way) finally took their toll on me in the form of a nasty summer cold. First things first: Joel, I hope your speedy recovery continue and we see you back on the list very soon. Now for the moderator stuff: I receive a daily email that lets me know how many emails sent to the list were “caught” in the server and did not go out to the other members. Most of these emails are the usual spam messages that we know and love (That poor Nigerian prince and his money woes!). However an increasing number are legitimate messages from list subscribers that have been rejected recently for one or more of the following reasons: The message is too big (50KB is the max); the message came with an attachment (photos and signature files are the usual culprit); or the person sending the message is not actually subscribed to the list. To ensure your message reaches your intended recipient(s), please double check that it is under 50KB, written in plain text, and you are sending it from an email address that is subscribed to the Pate mailing list. (Some users have more than one personal email account and all of their accounts may not be subscribed). Please Note: You *may* be accidentally unsubscribed from the list because of multiple PATE list messages being rejected (bounced) off the server that hosts your email. If you get an unsubscribe email and you didn’t intend to unsubscribe from the list, please email me and I will add you back. Adding [email protected] to your address book sometimes solves that problem. If you have any questions, please email me. -- Melanie Dennis [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PATE-r[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Pate List Family, Apologizes to everyone if it appears that I have been lurking in the background and neglecting my duties as assistant moderator. I have been around and doing some admin duties behind the scenes, but 12 hour workdays with a two hour commute (each way) finally took their toll on me in the form of a nasty summer cold. First things first: Joel, I hope your speedy recovery continue and we see you back on the list very soon. Now for the moderator stuff: I receive a daily email that lets me know how many emails sent to the list were “caught” in the server and did not go out to the other members. Most of these emails are the usual spam messages that we know and love (That poor Nigerian prince and his money woes!). However an increasing number are legitimate messages from list subscribers that have been rejected recently for one or more of the following reasons: The message is too big (50KB is the max); the message came with an attachment (photos and signature files are the usual culprit); or the person sending the message is not actually subscribed to the list. To ensure your message reaches your intended recipient(s), please double check that it is under 50KB, written in plain text, and you are sending it from an email address that is subscribed to the Pate mailing list. (Some users have more than one personal email account and all of their accounts may not be subscribed). Please Note: You *may* be accidentally unsubscribed from the list because of multiple PATE list messages being rejected (bounced) off the server that hosts your email. If you get an unsubscribe email and you didn’t intend to unsubscribe from the list, please email me and I will add you back. Adding [email protected] to your address book sometimes solves that problem. If you have any questions, please email me. -- Melanie Dennis [email protected]

A.J. I'm anxiously awaiting also. I had sent it to my son's girlfriend, whose father knows latin, but have not received answer back. Time gets away from me and I had not realized how long it has been. I'm sending a reminder as soon as I hang up the phone with you. Johnette -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of AJ Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 5:24 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [PATE] Followup on Latin translation for Pate memorial in MeltonMowbray church On this past May 25, I posted a request for a Latin scholar to translate an inscription on a memorial to Sir John and Elizabeth Pate in St. Mary's church in Melton Mowbray. The memorial was placed there c. 1680 by their two daughters and honors them both, but only Elizabeth is buried there. Sir John was buried in London (for reasons unknown). There was interest indicated on the Listserve in having this translation done, but none has been proffered at this point. Below I am reposting the inscription as a reminder for anyone who may have, or know someone who has, the knowledge to provide the translation. We will not know the importance of this inscription until it is translated. It may or may not contain new information. But it is interesting that it has not been translated into English, to my knowledge, for about 330 years. Gerald Pait pointed out that Latin can be a very complex language to translate, since words are subject to many interpretations and may vary according to purpose and level of usage and the age in which they are written. This inscription may avoid some of those problems. We know that it was a formal memorial to deceased parents, and we know it was written c. 1680. These facts should make the translator's task a little simpler. In broad terms, a rough translation can be made. The Latin phrase "Johanne Pate (de Sysonby in comitatu Leicestriensi) baronettu" can be translated as "John Pate (of Sysonby in the county of Leicester) baronet". There are tributes to both John and Elizabeth. The date 1659 refers to the year of Sir John's death and his burial at St. Giles near London. I think it may be saying that he was 67 years old at his death, which would make his birth in 1592. It also has the date of Elizabeth's death as 1628 at age 37, which would make the year of her birth as 1591. As contributors of the memorial, both daughters' names are noted, and it appears the other children are noted in total. It ends with the sentiment that their bodies are awaiting the Resurrection. There is also another arms and briefer Latin inscription on the wall of the same church for Edward and Katherine Pate of Kettleby, the grandparents of Sir John Pate. I will post it after this one has been translated. A. J. Pate ____________________ The following is quoted from Nichols, Vol. II, Part I, p. 253: In the south transept, now called 'The Old Chancel', formerly a separate chapel, on a mural alabaster monument are these arms: On a wreath, Argent, three text r's Sable; Pate; impaling, Barry of eight, Argent and Gules per pale countercharged, in chief a greyhound currant, Sable, Skipworth. Crest, a stag's head caboshed, Or; a raven reguardant, with wings expanded, Sable. The inscription is: M. S. Johannis & Elizabethae Pate; quos Deus una, Mors gemina carne fecit, hos rejunxit hoc marmor, Siste, & aspecta, quisquis es qui praeteris, Johanne Pate (de Sysonby in comitatu Leicestriensi) baronettu, virum egregium, Antiqua familia Patorurn de Kettlebee ortu, natalibus majorem, vitae mortisque intregru, affertorem causae Angustae Caroli Primi (semper beatae memoriae Principem) strenuu, forte, fidu, votu piu a quo licet cecidit, nil addat celebrius Famae tuba. Quem juxta recumbit (velut in amplexu) Elizabetha, generis sui gloria, exemplar vitae probae, mortisque benedictae, Gulielmi Skipwith, comitatus Leicestrensis, militis & baronetti, filia, conjux fidissima, quae peperit 5 filios (omnes emortuos) filiasque totide, quaru superstites Abigail, Thomae Smith, de Hatherton, in comitatu Cestrensi, baronetti, & Francisca Caroli Carington, Barone de Wootton, comitatus Warwicensis, filli natu 4, conjuges dilectissimae, & moerentes cohaerdes, sumptibus suis monumentu hoc impar parentibus posuerunt charissimis, quoru ille ritu sepulcrali donatus apud Stu Egidiu prope Lond. anno 1659, aetatis sexagesimo septimo; Illa, sub hac terra, die Augusti decimo septimo, anno 1628, aetatis suae 37, Resurrectionem praestolantes. Amen. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.441 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3035 - Release Date: 07/28/10 17:38:00

On this past May 25, I posted a request for a Latin scholar to translate an inscription on a memorial to Sir John and Elizabeth Pate in St. Mary's church in Melton Mowbray. The memorial was placed there c. 1680 by their two daughters and honors them both, but only Elizabeth is buried there. Sir John was buried in London (for reasons unknown). There was interest indicated on the Listserve in having this translation done, but none has been proffered at this point. Below I am reposting the inscription as a reminder for anyone who may have, or know someone who has, the knowledge to provide the translation. We will not know the importance of this inscription until it is translated. It may or may not contain new information. But it is interesting that it has not been translated into English, to my knowledge, for about 330 years. Gerald Pait pointed out that Latin can be a very complex language to translate, since words are subject to many interpretations and may vary according to purpose and level of usage and the age in which they are written. This inscription may avoid some of those problems. We know that it was a formal memorial to deceased parents, and we know it was written c. 1680. These facts should make the translator's task a little simpler. In broad terms, a rough translation can be made. The Latin phrase "Johanne Pate (de Sysonby in comitatu Leicestriensi) baronettu" can be translated as "John Pate (of Sysonby in the county of Leicester) baronet". There are tributes to both John and Elizabeth. The date 1659 refers to the year of Sir John's death and his burial at St. Giles near London. I think it may be saying that he was 67 years old at his death, which would make his birth in 1592. It also has the date of Elizabeth's death as 1628 at age 37, which would make the year of her birth as 1591. As contributors of the memorial, both daughters' names are noted, and it appears the other children are noted in total. It ends with the sentiment that their bodies are awaiting the Resurrection. There is also another arms and briefer Latin inscription on the wall of the same church for Edward and Katherine Pate of Kettleby, the grandparents of Sir John Pate. I will post it after this one has been translated. A. J. Pate ____________________ The following is quoted from Nichols, Vol. II, Part I, p. 253: In the south transept, now called 'The Old Chancel', formerly a separate chapel, on a mural alabaster monument are these arms: On a wreath, Argent, three text r's Sable; Pate; impaling, Barry of eight, Argent and Gules per pale countercharged, in chief a greyhound currant, Sable, Skipworth. Crest, a stag's head caboshed, Or; a raven reguardant, with wings expanded, Sable. The inscription is: M. S. Johannis & Elizabethae Pate; quos Deus una, Mors gemina carne fecit, hos rejunxit hoc marmor, Siste, & aspecta, quisquis es qui praeteris, Johanne Pate (de Sysonby in comitatu Leicestriensi) baronettu, virum egregium, Antiqua familia Patorurn de Kettlebee ortu, natalibus majorem, vitae mortisque intregru, affertorem causae Angustae Caroli Primi (semper beatae memoriae Principem) strenuu, forte, fidu, votu piu a quo licet cecidit, nil addat celebrius Famae tuba. Quem juxta recumbit (velut in amplexu) Elizabetha, generis sui gloria, exemplar vitae probae, mortisque benedictae, Gulielmi Skipwith, comitatus Leicestrensis, militis & baronetti, filia, conjux fidissima, quae peperit 5 filios (omnes emortuos) filiasque totide, quaru superstites Abigail, Thomae Smith, de Hatherton, in comitatu Cestrensi, baronetti, & Francisca Caroli Carington, Barone de Wootton, comitatus Warwicensis, filli natu 4, conjuges dilectissimae, & moerentes cohaerdes, sumptibus suis monumentu hoc impar parentibus posuerunt charissimis, quoru ille ritu sepulcrali donatus apud Stu Egidiu prope Lond. anno 1659, aetatis sexagesimo septimo; Illa, sub hac terra, die Augusti decimo septimo, anno 1628, aetatis suae 37, Resurrectionem praestolantes. Amen.

Praise the Lord - this is so wonderful to hear! Prayer works miracles and I am going to keep adding Joel to our various prayer chains and looking forward to his complete recovery. Send him our love and get well wishes, please, Clovis! Laynie ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 9:51 PM Subject: [PATE] JOEL Just heard from Linda.? Joel is out of Neuro Intensive care.? He is in a private room.? Linda is jubilant of course.? He can have visitors but she says just for a very short time please.? He's gaining strength but he is still very weak and needs a lot of rest.? She did not give me the name of the hospital but I will ask her and see if she has an address so cards can be sent.? Keep those prayers going.? Things are looking good for Joel.?? Makes us all happy. Clovis ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Here is Linda's message today: Today was a big day. After two weeks in Intensive Care, Joel has granduated to a provate room. He continues to improve. If you wish to visit him he is in room 4415 (no Hospital name given cbh) I ask that you keep your visits very short. He does not have the strength to do more. Please keep him in your prayers. Love Linda -- Clovis