Dear Carolyn: Thanks for your input. I have only found Olive in 1880 census with her "Grimes" family (once she was a wife and mother) and her race was not listed as white, her children were called mulatto. My uncle sings a song that his father taught him that was taught to him by his mother. I have not found her any where in any other census. Legend has it that she was given the name Olive and (Manuel) by someone who was registering her. I was hoping by going to Perry County, specifically Liverpool, where her son said she was born, might shed some light on how the Indians were assimilated back then. I don't know how she got from Liverpool to Elmhurst between her birth 1854/1855 and the 1880 census. IF there is any direction or insights that you can offer for one beginning to find that proverbial needle, it would be greatly appreciated. Respectfully Yours, Angela Wilkins ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn K Shearer" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002 6:46 AM Subject: Re: [PA-Perry] indian great grand mother > The 1870 federal census was the first time that "Indian" was added as a > choice under the question of race. You could try reading the census records > for the area to see if there are any indications of other Indian families. > Have you found Olive in 1870? Is she listed as "Indian"? > > Note: As a former genealogist for the Bureau of Indian Affairs I can tell > that there are many, many family stories of an Indian ancestor that can > never be proven. > > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

I doubt very much if you will find any record of her birth in Perry County, or elsewhere in PA for that matter as births were not registered on either the state or county level til much later. 1.Do you have any idea of the tribe? 2. Have you checked on www.cyndislist.com under "Indians" 3. Perhaps there are some clues in the song that your uncle sings. Could you transcribe it? Perhaps someone would recognize it and tell you more about the origins. You said that Olive was 'not white' in 1870 - was a race indicated? I assume you know that Mulatto in the census meant any mix - white and black, black and indian, white and indian, and often was simply what the census taker thought they might be, not what the family themselves reported. Circa 1854 is late for Indians to be in Perry County. I do not know of any Indian settlements in that part of PA that late. There was still a great amount of prejudice against the Indians then- it was less than 100 years after many massacres in the area. If you can find a good county history, you should try reading it very carefully for clues to see if there were any families left in the area. I read all of Liverpool Borough and Liverpool Twp in the 1850 census. No nonwhites in the Borough, 15 nonwhites/blacks in the township, none with any name close to Manuel or Emanuel. As there is a Liverpool Station across the river in Dauphin County I also checked there. Several Emanuel families but the older ones are born in Germany. Sorry this has not been much help. The only other thing I can think of that you might try is to order the 1860 Perry County census from LDS or thru your local library system and read all the families in Liverpool and close by. Let me know if I can be of any further help. Carolyn