Well said, Marilyn. I hold out accolades to Geri for all of her time and hard work. But sources are of vital importance! If you wanted to substantiate something, how would you know where to even begin looking if you didn't have a clue as to the quoted source? I have a pretty good idea of where my ancestors were in time. If I am working with a common name, such as Young or Moore or Moyer, and Geri posts information from a county they were never in, I pretty much ignore it. But if she posts something for Young or Moore or Moyer in a county that I knew they had lived in at one time, my eyes perk up. I have been at this business of genealogy for a long time. My brick walls are pretty tough to crack. A piece of information along with a source can lead me in the right direction. Without a source to guide me, I might never find that right direction. I am delighted that Geri works so diligently to help us, and I would never say anything to discourage her efforts, but I feel compelled to speak out in support of sources. I have become meticulous in recording sources. A fellow researcher once said to me, "When I first started genealogy, I wasn't very conscientious about documenting my sources. I thought a fact was a fact." In genealogy, a fact is never just a fact. It is a part of a tapestry, and without the supporting threads, the tapestry unravels. Each fact must be viewed in its complete context. A big part of that context is the source. Enough said by me on this subject - and again - many many thanks to Geri. Joyce msouders wrote: > Dear List- > I have followed with interest the ongoing debate about Geri Brennan's > postings and the lack of sources. > Once, a few years ago, I questioned whether this list was the best place for > posting such material and quickly received the first and till now, only, > flame I've ever received, including an illiterate message that contained > both anti-woman AND racist slurs! And a lot of patronizing messages > explaining why I was wrong. > I'd like to try again. > First, I thoroughly admire and respect the energy and sheer volume Geri > produces, bringing together all these disparate threads from a multitude of > sources. I can just imagine her sitting at her terminal, surrounded by > stacks of histories and genealogies with post-its sticking out of the pages > or a mountain of CDs. By now she's made hundreds of postings to the list. > And, I know that if one is researching from afar, her contributions are > extremely important until you can one day in the future get the time and > money to make a research trip. > But this is where I become concerned. For those of you Geri helps, you may > be putting unattributed material into a database that will take your > descendants or other researchers years to unravel down the road. > Some preliminary research on my own family was done by a sloppy genealogist > (if you could call her that) about 40 years ago. Living in California, she > believed that our ancestor from Warren County (then Sussex Co) NJ, had > fought in the Revolution and found someone of the right name and age living > in Schuylkill County, PA, whom she proposed as our ancestor to the DAR. > Lucky for their stringent standards, because they found that veteran's > pension application stated he had no children (!) and they rejected her > research. Later, she did find our guy but the New Jersey records weren't as > easy to research and it took a lot more energy than just checking published > sources. With a different ancestor, she claimed he'd fought with a Tennessee > regiment in the Civil War. I questioned this and took a lot of time tracing > his activities and found that she'd misinterpreted "Penn" for "Tenn" in a > photo caption! There were several other claims she made that I'm still > trying to either prove or disprove. If you don't really care about the > accuracy of those claims, you can just pass them down, unproven, to the next > generation. But I happen to believe that the truth is much more > interesting. > My own interest in this topic is that I've been a research librarian and > researcher, now called "information specialist," throughout my career and > believe that information without a source is worthless. It is by the source > that one identifies and evaluates information. Particularly now with the > Internet, one always must ask if something is from a respected source or > does it come from a slapdash operation? I certainly don't believe Geri is > using bad sources but I do believe that, through no fault of her own, she > could miss a peculiar spelling or an offbeat record that the expert for that > surname (you) would catch. > I still wonder if there isn't a better way of producing this information > where sources can be attached. > By the way, if you live at a distance from Pennsylvania, please note there > is a wonderful web site devoted to Northwestern NJ genealogy that includes > many PA records at Jan Reuther's > http://raub-and-more.com/ She just posted Warren County marriages, Vol 1, > and I noted a number of records for Easton, Mt. Bethel, etc. There is a > search engine at the bottom of the home page, but use all your variant > spellings when you search. > Sincerely, > Marilyn > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "geri brennan" <gerifelker@webtv.net> > To: <PANORTHA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 6:53 AM > Subject: Re: [PANORTHA-L] Sources > > > I should not have to explain to anyone but here goes. 1. Did I ever ask > > anyone of you for your source? 2. I have been told by more than several > > people that Ancestory Com., puts my work on their board and has the > > nerve to sell it, now should I put sources up for them too, I think not. > > 3. Take Ritter for example, that came from 67 yes I said 67 sources, it > > would be more than a chore to list them all. 4. If you make a hit, ask > > for the source, but sometimes you have to wait, it may take a day, a > > week or longer, when I get back to the source material. I may not use > > some stuff for 6 months. 5. I have put many, many, many years gathering > > my sources. > > > > Best Wishes, Geri > >

Hi, Jack- As opposed to the flame I got last time I tried to bring up the topic of attribution, this time most of the messages I received seemed to have gotten the point I was trying to make. (And to the rest of you, thanks for writing.) But, on to more important things... I search both MOYER and YOUNG (and maybe MOORE too) Who is your earliest for these surnames? My YOUNG is not a direct ancestor, but I tend to collect collateral lines too. I have a collateral line in Plainfield Township headed by Peter METZ, immigrated in 1741, whose wife was Elizabeth YOUNG/JUNG who would have been born ca. 1720. Her burial info said she was the daughter of John and Margaret YOUNG. There was at least one man of her generation whom I believe to have been her brother, (George) Henry YOUNG/Heinrich JUNG, 1731-1787. When Peter bought his Plainfield property in 1758, he was described as a "yeoman from Greenwich Twp., Sussex Co." (NJ) (which is where his brother, my ancestor, remained). I find one of Peter and Elizabeth's daughters was baptized "in Jersey" in 1758 by Rev. Schumacher, with a sponsor named "Conrad JUNGE" so I do believe that records for this YOUNG family might be found in NJ up to that time, as Peter and Elizabeth married around the 1740s. I've checked the NJ Archives but the number of John YOUNGs made my head spin and I put it off to another day. Does any of this strike any familiar notes? In Heller's history of Easton, he refers several times to a family named YOUNG who apparently were skilled firearms makers during the Revolution, but I haven't found anything that would link the Plainfield YOUNGS to them. The Northampton County history has a number of genealogies for YOUNG families, but none that connect to these early ones that I've been able to find. My MOYER family is an "orphan" family (actually I have two different "MOYER" families). In one family, the earliest one is Jacob MOYER/MEYER, May 17, 1768-August 27, 1844. He and his wife Maria (1768-October 25, 1871 - no misprint, she did live to 100+) are buried at Strawberry Ridge, Montour County. So far researchers for MOYER clans in Berks County and Bucks County don't find a spot for this Jacob to belong. (That same slapdash genealogist I referred to in my earlier posting, claimed they came from Reading, Berks, but DIDN'T GIVE A SOURCE FOR IT.) Again, as he was living in the area of Northumberland (then Columbia, then Montour) where many New Jersey migrants settled, near present-day Jerseytown, his family could have been originally from Sussex County. The earliest Jacob MOYER record I find is for a 1796 Northumberland Co. deed. Other MOYER grantees are Philip, Christopher, John and Daniel. Philip bought from Christian BROBST in Catawissa in 1810 (Q673). At the 1821 State of PA Septennial Census, I find these three enumerated together for Derry Twp., Columbia Co: #208 MOYER, John Farmer #209 , Jacob Weaver #210 , Samuel Farmer I've been able to document only two children so far for Jacob and Maria: Margaret, b. 1793 and John, b. 1806. There is still another MOYER/MAYER/MEYER/MOHR couple whom I've lost. They also start in Sussex County but disappear from there around 1800 and may have moved to Northampton County. They're mentioned in a will written in 1808, so I know they were alive as of that date. Here again, this family has proven impossible to trace. The name is spelled alternately "MEYER," "MOYER," and "MAIER" in the records known to apply specifically to them, but can be spelled many more variations as well (as I'm sure you're aware!); the given names of "Peter" and "Catherine" (both b. abt 1760-1765) are also too common to help sort this out. At least the names of some of their children are known from the baptisms (Dorothea, Elizabeth, William and maybe Valentine) performed at St. James Church in Sussex, now Warren, NJ). There were many families named "MEYER" and "MAYER" and "MOYER" - most likely all related - who appear in the St. James records up to about 1810 after which they all vanished. It is likely that some moved further west while others had their name changed to Warren County variants such as "MIERS," "MIRES" and "MYERS." There was a Catherine and Peter "MOHR" who lived in Plainfield Township and had dealings with (cousin) Valentine METZ but, again, there's no clear evidence that they were the same people. Have I exhausted your eyes? I have much more (all of it with sources). Marilyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "jack diehl" <diehl@pcspower.net> To: "msouders" <msouders@nyc.rr.com> Cc: <PANORTHA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 10:00 PM Subject: Re: [PANORTHA-L] Sources > Well said, Marilyn. I hold out accolades to Geri for all of her time and hard > work. But sources are of vital importance! If you wanted to substantiate > something, how would you know where to even begin looking if you didn't have a > clue as to the quoted source? > > I have a pretty good idea of where my ancestors were in time. If I am working > with a common name, such as Young or Moore or Moyer, and Geri posts information > from a county they were never in, I pretty much ignore it. But if she posts > something for Young or Moore or Moyer in a county that I knew they had lived in > at one time, my eyes perk up. > > I have been at this business of genealogy for a long time. My brick walls are > pretty tough to crack. A piece of information along with a source can lead me in > the right direction. Without a source to guide me, I might never find that right > direction. I am delighted that Geri works so diligently to help us, and I would > never say anything to discourage her efforts, but I feel compelled to speak out > in support of sources. I have become meticulous in recording sources. A fellow > researcher once said to me, "When I first started genealogy, I wasn't very > conscientious about documenting my sources. I thought a fact was a fact." In > genealogy, a fact is never just a fact. It is a part of a tapestry, and without > the supporting threads, the tapestry unravels. Each fact must be viewed in its > complete context. A big part of that context is the source. > > Enough said by me on this subject - and again - many many thanks to Geri. > > Joyce > > > msouders wrote: > > > Dear List- > > I have followed with interest the ongoing debate about Geri Brennan's > > postings and the lack of sources. > > Once, a few years ago, I questioned whether this list was the best place for > > posting such material and quickly received the first and till now, only, > > flame I've ever received, including an illiterate message that contained > > both anti-woman AND racist slurs! And a lot of patronizing messages > > explaining why I was wrong. > > I'd like to try again. > > First, I thoroughly admire and respect the energy and sheer volume Geri > > produces, bringing together all these disparate threads from a multitude of > > sources. I can just imagine her sitting at her terminal, surrounded by > > stacks of histories and genealogies with post-its sticking out of the pages > > or a mountain of CDs. By now she's made hundreds of postings to the list. > > And, I know that if one is researching from afar, her contributions are > > extremely important until you can one day in the future get the time and > > money to make a research trip. > > But this is where I become concerned. For those of you Geri helps, you may > > be putting unattributed material into a database that will take your > > descendants or other researchers years to unravel down the road. > > Some preliminary research on my own family was done by a sloppy genealogist > > (if you could call her that) about 40 years ago. Living in California, she > > believed that our ancestor from Warren County (then Sussex Co) NJ, had > > fought in the Revolution and found someone of the right name and age living > > in Schuylkill County, PA, whom she proposed as our ancestor to the DAR. > > Lucky for their stringent standards, because they found that veteran's > > pension application stated he had no children (!) and they rejected her > > research. Later, she did find our guy but the New Jersey records weren't as > > easy to research and it took a lot more energy than just checking published > > sources. With a different ancestor, she claimed he'd fought with a Tennessee > > regiment in the Civil War. I questioned this and took a lot of time tracing > > his activities and found that she'd misinterpreted "Penn" for "Tenn" in a > > photo caption! There were several other claims she made that I'm still > > trying to either prove or disprove. If you don't really care about the > > accuracy of those claims, you can just pass them down, unproven, to the next > > generation. But I happen to believe that the truth is much more > > interesting. > > My own interest in this topic is that I've been a research librarian and > > researcher, now called "information specialist," throughout my career and > > believe that information without a source is worthless. It is by the source > > that one identifies and evaluates information. Particularly now with the > > Internet, one always must ask if something is from a respected source or > > does it come from a slapdash operation? I certainly don't believe Geri is > > using bad sources but I do believe that, through no fault of her own, she > > could miss a peculiar spelling or an offbeat record that the expert for that > > surname (you) would catch. > > I still wonder if there isn't a better way of producing this information > > where sources can be attached. > > By the way, if you live at a distance from Pennsylvania, please note there > > is a wonderful web site devoted to Northwestern NJ genealogy that includes > > many PA records at Jan Reuther's > > http://raub-and-more.com/ She just posted Warren County marriages, Vol 1, > > and I noted a number of records for Easton, Mt. Bethel, etc. There is a > > search engine at the bottom of the home page, but use all your variant > > spellings when you search. > > Sincerely, > > Marilyn > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "geri brennan" <gerifelker@webtv.net> > > To: <PANORTHA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 6:53 AM > > Subject: Re: [PANORTHA-L] Sources > > > > > I should not have to explain to anyone but here goes. 1. Did I ever ask > > > anyone of you for your source? 2. I have been told by more than several > > > people that Ancestory Com., puts my work on their board and has the > > > nerve to sell it, now should I put sources up for them too, I think not. > > > 3. Take Ritter for example, that came from 67 yes I said 67 sources, it > > > would be more than a chore to list them all. 4. If you make a hit, ask > > > for the source, but sometimes you have to wait, it may take a day, a > > > week or longer, when I get back to the source material. I may not use > > > some stuff for 6 months. 5. I have put many, many, many years gathering > > > my sources. > > > > > > Best Wishes, Geri > > > >