Jim: I believe SR 48 runs perpendicular to Lincoln Way. SR 48 running from beyond Monroeville to Olympia Shopping Center (and beyond) while Lincoln Way runs from 5th Avenue at Blooms Cut Rate to RT 30 in North Huntingdon near Circleville. Jim Owston Jim Parmiter wrote To the best of my knowledge, Lincoln Way has always been Pennsylvania State Route 48. Jim Parmiter

Mark: Thanks for clearing the Lincoln Way/Lincoln Highway situation. In a related question. During what year was 48 widened? I can remember the old road, although I was probably on 12 when it changed to a four lane. Was this the reason Rainbow Gardens closed down? Jim Owston

I am looking for any information on the families of Valentine, Peter and Phillip Ehrhardt. They were all born in Richelshiem, Michaelstadt, Starkenburg, Hesse. Peter was the son of Adam and Katherine Elizabeth LINNER Ehrhardt. Valentine and Phillip were children of Adam and his second wife, Margaret Elizabeth MUENK. Peter born 29 Dec 1829 came to the US around 1852 and married Eva Margaret KRAUSZ around 1858. They lived in the Moon Twp. and Coraopolis area. Valentine born 19 Jul 1837 and died 1886 in McKeesport, PA married Catherine KOHL. He's buried in McKeesport/Versailles Cemetery. Bernard Phillip or Phillip born 19 Oct 1840. Supposedly lived in the McKeesport area also. I have children for Peter and Valentine and would love to find more on Phillip. Any information at all would be helpful. Thanks, Teresa --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.251 / Virus Database: 124 - Release Date: 4/26/01

Paul triggered my memory a little deeper - the one he is referencing beyond the Zodiac/White Elephant was moved from its original location across from Dutch Ulm's Garage to there when Lincoln Way was widened. Caused a little stink as I remember. I vaguely remember the one on the bridge - it was a Braddock's Crossing. The Queen Alliquippa one disappeared when the new McKeesport/Duquesne Bridge was built. Marc M. G. Stauffer

Thank you Paul for clearing all that up nicely. Ellen (ETHS)

I hope I can clear things up a little. The Lincoln Way Braddock marker I've seen is outside the residential part of White Oak, past the the former Zodiac nightclub on the same side. It resembles a small headstone with a tarnished brass plaque. The blue one Jim remembers in the 1200 block was obviously gone before my time--MSHS 1970. The plaque on the McK-Duq bridge was on the east side of the Mck end, where the pedestrian railing curved. It was attached to the railing and most drivers had to drive too fast to notice it. This must be the one missing due to PennDOT. The blue/gold state marker near Kennywood Donna mentioned marks Braddock's *second* crossing to the fatal battle. Last I saw in the '80s, it was still there. Ironically, now I live near Alexandria, VA, where Braddock's army started out. Nice to see all this interest, Paul

Dear Jim: In a way you both are right. "The Lincoln Highway" did follow its present route when it was designated the Lincoln Highway. However the original road was blazed across the western half of Pennsylvania by Gen. Forbes. I know that the original, that is, the trees were cut - road built - did come down our Lincoln Way. I say that because the route through White Oak is older because it was "Braddock's Route". Forbes came second and I'm not sure at what point he deviated from Braddock's Road. The Forbes Road through Ft. Bedford, Will's Narrows, Ft. Littleton, Ft. Ligonier. I've heard 2 scenarios. The first is that Braddock went through White Oak because the Turtle Creek Valley was narrow and dark with plenty of places for ambush. It was avoided by Native American and Whites alike. The problem was the technology of the day. It wasn't until they built the Westinghouse Bridge that the valley was spanned. Before that bridge you choices were to go via "McKee's Port", a second route that avoided the steep cliffs at the mouth of Turtle Creek was to go down Route 48 toward Pitcairn. The original Haymaker Rd - was the route across the valley. For years their log cabin sat in disrepair on the right hand side of Route 48 Approx 1/4 mile down from the crest of the hill. I'm not vouching these are absolute facts - part I know to be fact ( Route 30) and part from family stories my parents would tell - there's the old such and such - now that's where - so and so lived. Feel free to send me any questions at WarriorsMk@aol.com that is at home - and I'm more likely to have the information at hand. Marc M. G. Stauffer

Folks: All of this talk of White Oak leads me to a discussion I had with my mother and brother about Lincoln Way last year. Both disagreed with me, however, I seem to remember reading that Lincoln Way was the original route of Rt. 30 from the McKeesport area to Irwin. My family states that the Greensburg Pike route that currently runs through East McKeesport, North Versailles and North Huntingdon -- the current route -- was pretty much the same route as the original 30 with some minor exceptions here and there. Who is right. Thanks. Jim Owston

Dear Friends: Having been born in White Oak and my dad likewise, perhaps I can shed some light and help clear confusion. There was both a stone and a historical marker by Ulms Garage and Center St./Lincoln Way Intersection. I can even remember when the put in the stop sign. The stone was knee high - appeared to be black marble with a bronze plaque marking where Washington and Braddock passed. The other sign was a standard PA. State Historical Society (PennDot) blue with yellow letters and was perhaps 8 ft. high. The second marker was moved when they redid the Duquesne Bridge (around 1958) and pared back the hill for the bridge as it is now configured. Unlike the sign on the Duquesne side of the bridge this marker marked where Queen Alliquippa was living when Washington came through. The sign also mentioned that this was the spot where Washington gave the Queen a 5th of rum or whiskey. It sat on a diagonal which today I can only say take a 55 degree angle from the McKeesport-Versailles Cemetery wall that runs along the Lysle Blvd side where it turns to run up the eastern side of the cemetery. If you are an old, old McKeesporter you might remember that there was an old fashioned 1920's style garage that operated into the 1950's and was the last building on your right on Rt. 148 before turning onto the ramp for the old bridge. Also, if you want a treat go into the cemetery and take the first available road or path on your left and read some of the grave stones. They are among the oldest in the area and have markers from the original opening of the Cemetery. Finally and this truly dates me. I have a picture of the old Interurban Streetcar going along what is now Lincoln Way in White Oak on its way to Irwin and the Greensburg and I think Latrobe. This was during the time that you take an Interurban from McKeesport and actually get to Chicago via street car. FYI - If you look carefully and with a good eye you can see where the old roadbeds were - they are almost totally gone the last time I was in McKeesport - but I remember my dad carefully pointing out the road bed at various points on Lincoln Way and out Long Run. With this I'll shut up - has anyone been to the White Barn Theatre lately? Marc Marc M. G. Stauffer

Dear Jim, Yes, that's the one I'm talking about in White Oak. Forgot to say it was placed by our DAR Chapter. That seems to be missing these days & people say they don't know where it is located. Do you mean this is the same marker now out by the building? Regards, Ellen (ETHS)

No, I don't think that's the same marker at all. I have a picture of it put away someplace but don't recall where it is right now. Regards, Ellen

Paul's recollection of the state historical marker on Lincoln Way is accurate. When I was a little boy, I frequently walked from one grandmother's home at 1219 Ohio Avenue (one block off Lincoln Way) to my other grandparent's home at 1148 Lincoln Way. The sign was in the 1200 block of Lincoln Way, a few feet east of the intersection of what we then called Center Street and Route 48 (Lincoln Way). There was an Atlantic Station on the west corner and a Gulf station, owned by my mother's uncle Harry Ulm, on the east corner. The sign was entitled "Braddock's March" and told of his army's march westward guided by Colonel George Washington. It was a standard blue historical marker with yellow lettering. I believe it was placed by the McKeesport DAR. I know it was there in 1938. Jim Parmiter MHS '52/PSU '56

I dont ever remember seeing a marker on the Duquesne bridge..But there is a marker, on the end of the small bridge just as you approach Kennywood, from Duquesne , that mentions "Braddocks crossing at the bottom of this hill" indicating it is just below Kennywood--would this be the same maker everyone says is missing from the Duquesne Bridge ??? Donna

Ellen and List Members, I last saw these two markers before I left the Pittsburgh area to relocate to Washington, D.C. in 1985. The White Oak one is small; maybe it's one by two feet on a stone. I once saw it by sheer chance while driving on Lincoln Way. That may have been in the 1970s. I don't know if it had been moved from elsewhere in White Oak. Since it marks Braddock's Camp, it's location by the boro garage is incorrect. I also am unaware of PennDOT's refurbishing of the Duquense Bridge and loss of the river crossing marker. What can you expect from bureaucrats? (I should know, I work with them!) Regarding Marlyn's description of the spring being near Bennett and another B street; it must have been Boyd. This intersection is just off O'Neal Blvd. Remember when Kennywood's train ride had a re-creation of Braddock's Defeat? Paul

Dear Paul & Home Town Listers, I read Paul's note with interest. I'm wondering about 3 things here. 1. How long ago Paul observed these markers. 2. If the marker he's mentioning at the White Oak Boro garage is one that may have been moved from down in White Oak that no one can find any more. 3. If the rest of us have missed something on the bridge because we haven't been able to find that marker since the old part was removed & the new one put up. It used to be near the beginning of the bridge & we've even had the Mayor of McKeesport trying to find it a few years back. That marker was placed by the Queen Alliquippa Chapter DAR & when Pendot did their handiwork it disappeared & it seems they have no knowledge of what happened to it. Nice Right??? I'll ask a White Oak friend of mine what the marker was for down there that no one can find & get back to you on that one. Best Regards, Ellen (ETHS) email: ellen@b-n-s.com Visit my web site: http://www.geocities.com/ellenj3

Hello Barb and all, To follow up on your question, I looked at a topographic map on "topozone.com" and it looks like a Crooked Run or a branch of it runs through the Camp St./ballfield area you describe. Maybe Braddock's spring is the source of it. It's a little surprising there are few prominent historic markers noting Braddock's camp. There is a small stone with a plaque at ankle level on Lincoln way near a White Oak Borough garage. Another plaque on the Duquense bridge marks Braddock's river crossing. Most drivers are too preoccupied to notice these. I've read that an old oak tree stands near Franklin St. and supposedly was living when the army marched past in 1755. Thank you, George, for posting my comments on your site. God bless, Paul

Greetings listers, Thanks to all that sent info on Braddock's Spring picture. I really enjoyed them. Prior to me finding the pic (mooching actually), I had never heard of Braddock's Spring. I added a discussion Board to the front page of the site. Please use this as an adjunct to this newsletter. To use it. Click on "Community".... register.... then start posting. The discussion topic will be loosely interpreted as anything "pertaining to McKeesport" It is hoped that this Board will become active. This exact same Board can be added to other web sites. If anyone is interested in spreading this board to their web site, please contact me via email & I will send them the code. BTW..... The Web Site is averaging 100 new visitors a day. Thanks to all who are contributing material to the site and to those who plan on contributing material. :)) hint...hint..... May you all be Blessed, George Jenkins Listowner http://www.geocities.com/geojenk/index.html

Paul There is a spring that runs beyond the ballfield (the Shields & Camp St area) area right below Bennett St. Would that be the one you are referring to? Barbara Jo Pollack Firda http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/f/i/r/Barbara-J-Firda/?Welcome=984880983 Researching the following surnames: COATES, FIRDA, GIRMAN, LESNIK, LOGAN, POLLACK, SCHULTE, TKACH, AND VOELKER any information greatly appreciated!

Dear George and "yunz guyz", I think I can shed some light on that postcard for sale on EBay showing a "Braddock spring" in McKeesport. According to what I've read elsewhere, this spring was in the Fawcett plan section of McKeesport, over by Fawcett school. This spring reportedly was a source of water for General Braddock's British army enroute to capture Ft. Duquesne in 1755. George Washington was Braddock's aide-de-camp, so it gained the name "Washington's Spring" since tradition had him drinking from it. I have a 1960 Old Home Week book with an old photo of this spring referring to it as Washington's. At the turn of the century, one of the streets in Fawcett plan was called Braddock street (possibly now Bennett street.) I presume it's site. The spring must be dry by now, or we'd still be hearing about it. Does any one else have information on this spring? Paul Popowitz

Dear George & Listers, Talk about memories! I was looking at just a few pictures, when I should have been doing other things & got a pleasant surprise. Among the great pictures to take me back to my childhood years were 2 special ones. The Picture titled "Train Crossing at Walnut St. looking toward 6th Ave." Many a day I passed that spot. If you look at the left where you see just a part of a store next to the drug store, you see what I remember to be Clark's Confectionary Store. Joe Clark was the owner. We called him Clarkie. They sold some food items, and you could pick up milk & bread in there. They had big can's with clear tops that held cookies of different types in divided sections & you could buy what you wanted from them. They also had them with Pretzels & when they opened the can you could smell the "lye" in them & the flavor aroma was really great too. Another can held Potato Chips & you took a brown paper bag to put in what you wanted. Candy bars, ice-cream (remember the push-ups), sodas & sundies and of course the cigars, tobacco & cigarettes were there. In the back of the store all the magazines were displayed & that's where we bought all our "comic books" at a whopping 10 cents. I must have spent a lot of my allowance for chores on just about every kind of them. Wish I had them today! There were "punch boards" that you, men for the most part, took chances on for prizes. Some of them were boxes of candy, which they carried for sale. Whitman's was one of them. Other items were perfume, clocks, & I think money too. The other picture I really noticed was the one marked Walnut St. RR crossing between 6th & 7th. The wall affair on the left side is the one I ran in to with a bike because a woman was walking on it & I didn't want to hit her, nor did I want to fall off the wall. Between 7th St. (where I lived), and down to that spot, we used to do 2 very dangerous things. One was walk the rails to see how far we could go before falling off & the other was to run the planks, skipping one each time, if possible, as fast as we could go. On the right you will see the Tony's Fruit Market. That sure was a busy place. He'd be so jovial & laughing all the time. We did all our shopping for fruits & vegetables there & I'd buy an apple in there on the way to school sometimes. On the side of the building he'd have the Christmas Trees stacked for the holiday & I remember my dad & I hauling a big one home one year. It must have been over 12 feet tall. We had high ceilings and used a ladder for trimming the top part. Thanks for bringing back fond memories George. Regards, Ellen (ETHS) email: ellen@b-n-s.com Visit my web site: http://www.geocities.com/ellenj3