Grant I wanted to post some email from Roger Cramer that might help others to understand the sources of his information. I found his email to be quite helpful and clarifying. I am posting his email without his knowledge or consent and I hope that he will approve, after the fact, of my doing so. On the basis of his information I have adjusted my information on John Kreider on my web site to better reflect the sources of information and the tentative nature of that information. That site will be updated in the near future. Dan Wenger ++++++ From: RogerCubs@aol.com Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 12:51:18 EST To: jblight@redshift.com Cc: DanielWenger@worldnet.att.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Light Family Research Sources John, I was a little confused about your message as I don't specifically recall our earlier contacts. You are correct when you mention my contributions as not necessarily being "gospel". I have also been in touch with Betty Behr who wrote to me saying even she isn't positive which John Light was the immigrant. She told me she was still finding new information and hoped to eventually be able to prove something. I base the date of 1737 from the records I found in Illinois. I have an obituary for my 2nd great grandfather, John O. Light, who came in Illinois in 1837 that has a date of 1737 as the date our ancestor immigrated and uses the name John Peter Light. This obituary is from 1901. There is also an Ogle Co., IL biographical book published in the late 1800's that uses the name John Peter Light as the immigrant. Thirdly, I have a 100th Anniversary book for Leaf River, IL (near where John Light came to) that states August 30, 1737 as the immigrant John Peter Light's date of arrival. It shows the same line of descendents as are well known. The information in the book was obtained from Light family members at the time. I feel that the date and name must have been handed down in the family to show up in later years. I cannot claim any proof which is correct other than what I have found in Ogle Co., IL where I was born. I know most researchers use 1738 as the correct date, but there are records of a John Light arriving in 1737 also. Wilbur Light, John O. Light's grandson, who died in 1971 was the family genealogist. He contributed information to the Leaf River book. I have no idea what happened to his records. As far as the name Kreider goes, I have no proof of that either. I have seen both spellings but since I have seen the Kreider name often in my research of the area, assume that to be the correct spelling. I have received information from several Light researchers and added it to my database. It seems there are as many theories on the family as there are researchers. I try to be careful when exchanging information to say that some of the dates and names in my database have been given to me by other researchers and that I cannot guarantee accuracy. I hope this answers your questions but please continue to write as I am also interested in any new information that becomes available. Roger Cramer ++++++++++ >I noted with interest the recent posts from Bob Bensing, Donna Ristenbatt >and some others regarding a possible EARLY link between the Lebanon LIGHTs >and the KREIDERS. I've also had some correspondence with John Light of >Monterey, CA on the same subject. > >If my understanding is correct, this John Light is a descendant of John >LIGHT of Lebanon, who arrived at the port of Philadelphia on 5 Sep 1738 >aboard the Winter Galley. This John LIGHT, and his descendants, are the >subjects of an exhaustive study carried on by the Rev. R. G. Francis >(1870-1958), a Lebanon genealogist with a reputation for talent and >experience, mostly between the years 1929 through 1932. The results of >this study were published posthumously through the good offices of >Searchlight Editor Betty M. Light Behr by the Closson Press in April 1990 >under the title "History and Genealogy of Early Pioneer Families of Lebanon >County, Pennsylvania". This, I am persuaded, is, without serious question, >the seminal study of this family and its history. Rev. Francis, early on >in his introductory discussion (p. 8) has this to say concerning the spouse >of John LIGHT of Lebanon: "As to his wife, we know not her Christian name. > nor her family name. Their son Jacob states that his mother died Nov. 12, >1758. She was doubtless considerably younger than her husband, for she >bore a son as late as 1738. Perhaps the daughter Barbara was still >younger, certainly so if she married Casper Shirk, for Casper's wife >Barbara was born May 13, 1739." > >John LIGHT must have contracted his marriage in Europe well before his 1738 >journey to the Colonies. In fact, his eldest child, son John, is recorded >as having been born 21 Feb 1726 (p. 13). If his wife was named KREIDER >(Maria or otherwise), it seems unlikely that she is of either of the >KREIDER families sojourning in Ittlingen, as discussed in the PMH articles >of John Marsh and Jane Best, because (1) neither family is recorded as >having a daughter named Maria, and (2) neither family is recorded as having >a daughter of the requisite age to have been capable of bearing a child in >1726 (none, that is, who is not otherwise accounted for). Of course, there >were lots of KREIDERs in that part of Europe at that time, many of them >doubtless female and available for marriage. And there is no showing that >John LIGHT the Immigrant had any connection with Ittlingen. Nevertheless, >it does put in question whether, if John LIGHT's wife was a KREIDER, she >was directly connected with the Ittlingen KREIDERs, who were the >progenitors of the Lebanon KREIDERs. > >Now to the question of "family tradition" raised by John Light of Monteray. > I am also a descendant of John LIGHT the Immigrant. I have devoted >considerable time to the study of the family literature (admittedly, most >of it secondary), and I must say that I have never heard or read of such a >"tradition." I have it from a respected source that one of the purveyors >of this information is a gentleman named Roger Cramer (with whom I am not >acquainted). I have it further from this source that Mr. Cramer has not >offered to furnish a source for this information, having been requested to >do so. There is this to be said, however: I understand from my source >that Mr Cramer states the spouse of Maria KREIDER is named John (Johannes) >Peter LIGHT. > >Again referring To Rev. Francis' work, he tells us that there were a number >of John LIGHTs (with variant surname spellings) who arrived at Philadelphia >at about the same time as our John LIGHT; that among these were Johan >Peter LIGHT, who arrived on 30 Aug 1737 aboard the Samuel, and Peter LIGHT, >who arrived on 27 Oct 1733 aboard the Saint Andrew. Of these and other >LIGHT immigrants, Rev. Francis has this to say (p. 2): "We do not attempt >to determine where the Light immigrants, afore, settled. That is beyond >our sphere. As to the settlers we simply let it be known, from the records >found, that they had settled; there is no intention to give history beyond >the record quoted, unless those under consideration were connected vitally >with our Lights of Lebanon county." Not to put words in the Reverend's >mouth, he seems quite clearly to be telling us that his work is devoted >solely to the John [Johannes] LIGHT who arrived in Philadelphia on 5 Sep >1738 aboard the Winter Galley, and to his progeny. And when the Reverend >tells us that the name of this John LIGHT's wife is not known, it's going >to take a powerful lot to convince me otherwise, family tradition or no. > >Grant Miller >max@cftnet.com > > >==== PALEBANO Mailing List ==== >For a great list of most of the on-line mailing lists (and ability to >subscribe to them) check out John Fuller's Internet Resources web page: ><http://members.aol.com/johnf14246/internet.html> Daniel Lee Wenger Santa Cruz, CA DanielWenger@worldnet.att.net http://wengersundial.com http://wengersundial.com/wengerfamily