Maderis, perhaps?

Now that everyone is on a LIGHT kick, can anyone help with more information on the ancestors and descendants of these LIGHTS? I have very littleinformation except for: Catherine LIGHT , | | bd. December 21, 1806, Lebanon, PA | | dd. October 16, 1849, Womelsdorf, PA Sarah LIGHT ,, | | bd. February 11, 1811, Lebanon County, PA | | dd. January 15, 1833, Lebanon, PA Here is a short Descendant Report: John LIGHT , bd. Lancaster County, PA dd. Cincinnatti, OH | Samuel LIGHT , | bd. February 25, 1770, Near Labanon, PA | dd. February 14, 1834 | | Samuel LIGHT | | Jacob LIGHT | | bd. July 11, 1797 | | dd. January 18, 1865 | | Elizabeth LIGHT | | Mary LIGHT | | bd. August 8, 1799 | | dd. February 3, 1840 | | Harry LIGHT | | bd. September 17, 1802 | | dd. October 10, 1832 | | Catherine LIGHT , | | bd. December 21, 1806, Lebanon, PA | | dd. October 16, 1849, Womelsdorf, PA | | John LIGHT | | bd. February 26, 1809 | | dd. March 24, 1884 | | Sarah LIGHT ,, | | bd. February 11, 1811, Lebanon County, PA | | dd. January 15, 1833, Lebanon, PA | | Anna LIGHT | | bd. 1813 | | dd. 1885 | Jacob LIGHT TIA Dan Daniel Gensemer REINHOLD III Clinton Computer Consultants RR 4 Box 45 Mill Hall, PA 17751-9622 Voice phone (570) 748-3201 Internet dreinhol@cub.kcnet.org Web pages http://cub.kcnet.org/~dreinhol/ http://cub.kcnet.org/~millplay/ President, Clinton County (PA) Genealogical Society Genealogical Surname Searching: REINHOLD, Lancaster County. PA, 1752 - now also variants REINOEL, REINHOLT, REINHOLDT, REINWALD AMWEG, WENGER, WALTER, GENSEMER, Lancaster County, PA, 1700s MUSSER, GLISSEN, - SE PA. 1840 - now MACK, MOCK,- NE PA, 1880 - now Shake any family tree and a few nuts will fall.

>Delivered-To: ltmiller@mail.ptd.net >Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 00:21:29 -0800 (PST) >X-From_: mwilson@injersey.infi.net Mon Mar 15 00:21:28 1999 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Old-Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 03:17:21 -0500 >To: PALEBANO-L@rootsweb.com >From: marcia wilson <mwilson@injersey.infi.net> >X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list >Subject: {not a subscriber} 1828 Lebanon/Dauphin deed: EMBICH, SHINDEL, >LOY, WOLF, SMITH, GLONINGER, ATTICH, BENJAMIN, PREMIR, RIDDLE, WERNER, >RITTEL, ARNOLD, KOEHLER, HARTMAN, OSWALD, CAMBRIF? > >in a fit of impulsive abandon i bought an old deed at a NJ antique show >today..... >the deed is a large (about 24" x 18") piece of browning paper, letterpress >printed by "J. HARTMAN, PRINTER, LEBANON", with blanks filled in by >beautifully written pen and ink. > >DEED >BERNHARDT EMBICH to JOHN SHINDEL For 4 acs 159 ps of wood Land situate in >Lebanon Township, Lebanon County > >THIS INDENTURE, made the Twenty-eight Day of March, in the year of our >Lord, One thousand eight hundred and twenty eight Between BERNHARD EMBICH >of the borough of Lebanon, Lebanon county and state of Pennsylvania of the >one part, and JOHN SHINDEL of the same place, of the other part, >WITNESSETH, that the said BERNHARD EMBICH for and in consideration of the >sum of one hundred and ten dollars lawful money of the state of >pennsylvania, to them in hand well and truly paid by the said JOHN SHINDEL, >at and before the ensealing and delivery hereof, the receipt whereof do >hereby acknowledge, and thereof do acquit and forever discharge the said >JOHN SHINDEL his Heirs, Executors and Administrators BY THESE PRESENTS has >granted, bargained, sold, aliend, enfeoffed, released and confirmed, and by >these presents doth grant, bargain, sell, alien, enfeoff, release and >confirm unto the said JOHN SHINDEL and to his Heirs and assigns, ALL THAT >CERTAIN Tract or piece of woodland, situate in Lebanon Township, County and >state aforesaid, bounded and described as follows to wit BEGINNING at a >stone thence by Land of the said BERNHARD EMBICH North forty seven degrees >and a half east fifty perches to a stone thence by Lands of ANDREW LOY, >South fifty six degrees and a quarter East nine perches to a stone, thence >by Land of ABRAHAM WOLF South twenty two degrees and a half East, eight >perches and two tents to a stone, thence by Land of GEORGE SMITH South >forty seven degrees and a half west forty six perches and two [illeg] to a >stone, thence by Land of PETER GLONINGER North twenty three degrees and >three quarters west, one perch and eight tenths to a maple thence by the >same, North fifty six degrees and a half west, fifteen perches and three >tenths to the place of BEGINNING, CONTAINING four acres and one hundred and >fifty nine perches, neat measure, It being part of a Larger tract which >JOHN ATTICH by his last will and testament duly proved and executed, >directed to be sold and in pursuance to his directions the same was sold >unto ALEXANDER BENJAMIN, and the said ALEXANDER BENJAMIN and ELIZABETH his >wife, by their Indenture dated the 29th day of Dec A.D. 1783 for the >consideration therein mentioned did grant and confirm the same unto MATHIAS >PREMIR, his heirs and assigns, And the said MATHIAS PREMIR did intestate >seized of the said tractof Land, and the same was by an order ofthe orphans >Court of DAUPHIN COUNTY directed to be sold in parts, and in pursuance of >the said Order, one part thereof was sold unto HENRY RIDELLE [sic] his >heirs and assigns forever. And the said HENRY RIDDLE [sic] died after >having first made his will wherein he devised the same unto his son JACOB >RIDELLE his heirs and assigns, as in and by the said Will remaining in the >Registers office at HARRISBURG in DAUPHIN COUNTY, relation being thereunto >had, appears, And the said JACOB RIDDLE died intestate, leaving issue eight >children to wit, JACOB RITTEL, JOHN RITTEL, GODLIEB RITTEL, CATHARINE, >intermarried with JOHN ARNOLD, Christina intermarried with JOHN KOEHLER, >SARAH intermarried with HENRY WERNER, ANNA MARIA RITTEL, AND HANNAH RIDDLE, >to whom the same descended as heirs, and who by their Indenture hearing >date the twenty second day of March A.D. 1828 did grant and confirm the >same unto BERNHARD EMBICH (Party hereto), his heirs and assigns forever >Relation being thereunto had appears. > [this paragraph is mostly a printed form, with blanks filled in] >TOGETHER, acto, with all and singular the Houses, Out Houses, Barns, >Stables, Gardens, Orchards, Meadows, Fields, Fences, Ways, Woods, Waters, >Water-Courses, Rights, Liberties, Privileges, Hereditaments >andAppurtenances whatsoever thereunto belonging or in any wise >appertaining: And the Reversions and Remainders, Rents, Issues and Profits >thereof; and also all the Estate, Right, Title, Interest, Use, Trust, >Property, Possession, Claim and Demand whatsoever of him the said BERNARD >EMBICH in law or equity, or otherwise howsoever, or, in, to, or out of the >same: TO HAVE AND TO HOLD the said Tract, piece, or parcel of WOODLAND here >described Hereditaments and Premises hereby granted and released, or >mentioned, or intended so to be WITH THE APPURENANCES unto the said JOHN >SHINDEL, his Heirs and Assigns, to the only proper use and behoof of him >the said JOHN SHINDEL his Heirs and Assigns forever, AND THE SAID BERNHARD >EMBICH, for himself his Heirs, Executors and Administrators, doth covenant, >promise, grant and agree, to and with the said JOHN SHINDEL his Heirs and >Assigns, BY THESE PRESENTS... that he the said BERNHARD EMBICH and his >Heirs, the said above mentioned and described Tract or piece of wood Land, >Hereditaments and Premises hereby granted and released, or mentioned, or >intended so to be, with the Appurtenances, unto the said JOHN SHINDEL his >Heirs and Assigns; against him the said BERNARD EMBICH and his Heirs and >against all and every Person and Persons whomsoever lawfully claiming, or >to claim the same, or any part of parcel thereof, shall and will WARRANT >and forever DEFEND by these presents IN WITNESS WHEREOF the said parties to >these presents have interechangeably sent their hands and seals, dated the >Day and year first above written. >SEALED AND DELIVERED in the Presence of us,[signed] FREDERICK EMBICH, >[signed] DANIEL OSWALD. >RECEIVED the say of the date of the above written INDENTURE of LEBANON >COUNTY, ss. >and from the above named JOHN SHINDEL, the sum of ONE HUNDRED AND TEN >DOLLARS in Gold and Silver, it being the consideration money above >mentioned in full. >WITNESS PRESENT AT SIGNING: [signed] FREDERICK EMBICH, [signed] DANIEL >OSWALD, [signed illegible my best guess] LAVON SAUL CAMBRIF? >BE IT REMEMBERED that on the twenty eight day of March Anno Domini 1828 >before me, FREDERICK EMBICH ESQUIRE, one of the JUSTICES OF THE PEACE of >the said county, personally came the above named BERNARD EMBICH, and >acknowledged the above Indenture to be his act and deed, and desired that >the same might be recorded as such, according to law: being of full age, by >me. IN TESTIMONY WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my Hand and Seal, the Day and >Year [signed] FREDERICK EMBICH. >[signature on right side of document, illeg and shaky] LAVON SAUL CIMBRIF? > > -0- > > >marcia wilson >please check out my web page at >http://nj5.injersey.com/~mwilson/ >if that address does not work, try >http://mh005.infi.net/~mwilson/ >

>Hello All! > >With all this Light on the subject line I thought I'd bring up my "brick >wall". > >While researching in Lebanon Co., Pa. Census 1860, July 6. Page 91/377 Line >17 (LDS Film # 00805128&129) I found the folowing. > >Josiah LIGHT 36m >Lydia 31 f >Mary LOUDON 8f >Lydia LOUDON 20f >Lydia LOUDON 3f >Rebecca LIGHT 59f > >Page 97/383 Line 38 > >Abraham LIGHT 65m farmer >Sarah 60f >Cornelius 23 m This seems to fit. My notation is: ~ means approximate * means no descendant information ^ means no ancestor information 0 means no descendants name -- Cornelius R. Light, 1837~,, * father -- Abraham Light, 1794.12.15 1861.2.2 mother -- Salome (Solma) Reigel, 1800.3.3 1861.4.10 paternal grandfather -- Abraham Light, 1770.4.16 1850.9.28 paternal grandmother -- Barbara Landis, 1771.2.2 1847.6.27 maternal grandfather -- Adam Reigel, 1775~,, ^ maternal grandmother -- sibling -- Leah Light, 1820.1.12,, * Henrietta Light, 1821.5.21 1897.10.2,, * Abraham R. Light, 1823.1.17 1904.6.3 Adam R. Light, 1824.12.3 1905.6.29,, Rev. Solomon R. Light, 1824.12.3 1905.6.29,, * Sarah Light, 1828.10.18 1898.11.16,, * Mary R. Light, 1830.9.22/8 1901.4.3,, * Elizabeth Light, 1833.5.4,, * Elias R. Light, 1835~,, Capt. * Catharine A. Light, 1839~,, * offspring -- information -- JGF 233,245 +++++++++++ >Page 98/384 Line 1 > >Polly LIGHT 29f >Eli LIGHT 25m >Elizabeth 24f >William Eckart 8m >Wash Granell 23 m Watchmaker >Harriet Granell 23f > >Does anyone know who the LOUDON women living with the LIGHT family are??? > >My elusive gg grandmother was Sarah C. LOUDEN (Loudon) b. c. 1820. >Sarah married William B. WALLIS (Wallace) b. c. 1814. They raised their >family, Cornelia (1847), Edward >(1849), Charles(1851), Louden(1854), Mary(1857), Matilda(1860), in >Northumberland Boro, N"umbrlnd Co., >Pa. Idon"t know where Sarah or William were born or who their parents or >siblings were. I have been searching for quite awhile. > >(My gg grandmother was named Sarah. Her first child was Cornelia. See >Abraham above.) > >Hoping maybe someone can she some "light" on this mystery for me. > >Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. > >Kate > ><katewreynolds@msn.com> > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: PALEBANO-D-request@rootsweb.com <PALEBANO-D-request@rootsweb.com> >To: PALEBANO-D@rootsweb.com <PALEBANO-D@rootsweb.com> >Date: Sunday, March 14, 1999 2:11 PM >Subject: PALEBANO-D Digest V99 #57 > > > > > > >==== PALEBANO Mailing List ==== >Visit Rootsweb and support our sponsor: ><http://www.rootsweb.com> Daniel Lee Wenger Santa Cruz, CA DanielWenger@worldnet.att.net http://wengersundial.com http://wengersundial.com/wengerfamily

Leroy - Unless you are referring to the specific Light family traditions I reference, and if I understand your question, this is my understanding of "family tradition" when used in genealogy: Any story or information about the family that is passed down from generation to generation. The tradition may have, or often does not have, factual basis or a reliable source such as public record to back it up. Example: for years my father told us we were descended from a famous patriot based on what he remembered as a child. I could write a genealogy based on that information, citing "family tradition". However, I have disproved that ancestry (the patriot was a cousin, not an ancestor) using actual death, burial, war and wedding records. I now write a different genealogy with reliable, or primary sources. Sometimes family tradition is all you have to go on, but it is based on memory and recollection, not exactly infallible. Many written family histories (as I am contesting) simply state information as fact without any reference to reliable source; I suppose this too would be a form of "family tradition", or perhaps "secondary source without factual basis". Any one else care to take a stab? John Light Monterey, CA > I found your letter very interesting. I have nothing of substance to > add, but I was very curious about the source of what you call a family > tradition. Can you tell us more? > Leroy Miller > West Hills, CA

Hi Friends: Here is a message about Tulpehoecken which I saved several years ago. It came from a small group of searchers before Rootsweb was activated ... all focused on Tulpe history. Page down, there are lots of names and some history. For you AOL users: You can search for a name or other "string" with this shortcut. Put the cursor in the message area and click. Then click EDIT and click FIND IN TOP WINDOW. A Search window will come up and you can type something to be serched. Good luck ... Dick Creps Subj: Re: Hi - Date: 96-08-21 16:58:41 EDT From: JLYThayer Tulpehocken.... (which means "land where the turtle sang and wooed") name of a "creek." Tulpers - I'll repeat much of this for the benefit of those who've newly joined Tulpe Gp. It's a synthesis of info Dave and Sue (and others) have sent. By no means am I plagerizing; I give full credit to each of you! The Swatara, a tributary of the Susquehanna, led to the Tulpehocken Creek, which "fed" into Lancaster Co. Now, a distinct area of research within Berks and Lancaster Co.'s and the larger area. When the Palatinites in NY ( ltr PG - PA Germans) got fed up w/the British attitudes toward them, Weiser and others began to look for other/better places to settle. Apparently, Wm. Penn's folks had contacted them, offering land in the western part of PA. Seemingly, the ulterior motive for the Penns was to provide themselves (in eastern PA) a westerly buffer betw/against the Indians. But the PA authorities didn't throw down so many roadblocks against German settlement, as did the Brits (who'd allowed only 10 acres per; not sufficient for subsistence farming.) The story of the Palatinites' migration is mythical! (You might like to order Earl W. Ibach's "map" I mentioned in my other msg.) Last summer, Jerry (my hus) and I drove the trace of that migration fr Schoharie in just a few hours. To think how those folks went across land and by water, and the second group drove their livestock across country, defies imagination. At any rate, Conrad Weiser (father and son) knew about the Tulpehocken area of Berks Co. thru numerous contacts with the Indian people of that area, and trips made to the region. I don't know how long the negotiations w/the Pennsylvanians took, but the decision was finally made to make the move to the Tulpehocken. A petition exists which names those original migrants. (At this point, Art, I'll copy in some research that a cousin of mine did. It will make the msg quite lengthy, but until I know if you can receive "files," this will have to do.) Subj: Tulpehocken information Date: Sat, Feb 10, 1996 6:35 PM EDT From: benhur@pond.com (David C. Becker) Hi everybody, I just returned from the Berks County Historical Society where I copied down some information regarding the emigration of New York Palatines to Pennsylvania in 1723 (Judy, you should find this interesting). So, here it is: The Palatines who settled in New York found the living conditions to be poor. In 1723, 33 families left New York and, upon the invitation of Governor William Keith of Pennsylvania, settled in the Tulpehocken area. The following is a petition to Governor Keith from these Palatinates who would eventually settle along the Tulpehocken creek. "To his excellency, William Keith, Baronet, Governor of Pennsylvania, &c, &c, the Honourable Council The petition to us, the subscribers, being thirty-three families in number, at present inhabiting Tulpehocken creek Humbly Sheweth, That your petitioners being natives of Germany, about 15 years ago, were by the great goodness and royal bounty of her late majesty, Queen Anne, relieved from the hardships which they then suffered in Europe, and were transported into the colony of New York, where they settled. But the families increasing, being in that Government confined to the scanty allowance of ten acres of land to each family, whereon they could not well subsist. Your petitioners being informed of the kind reception which their countrymen usually meet with in the Province of Pennsylvania, and hoping they might, with what substance they had, acquire larger settlements in that Province, did last year (in the spring of 1723), leave their settlements in New York Government, and come with their families into this Province, where, upon their arrival, they applied themselves to his excellency, the Governor, who, of his great goodness, permitted them to inhabit upon Tulpahaca Creek, on condition that they should make full satisfaction to the proprietor or his agents, for such lands as should be alloted to them, when they were ready to recieve the same. And now, your petitioners, understanding that some gentlemen, agents of the proprietor, have ample power to dispose of lands in this province. And we, your petitioners, being willing and ready to purchase, do humbly beseech your Excellency and council to recommend us to the favorable usage of the proprietors agents, that upon paying the usual prices for lands at such distance from Philadelphia, we may have sufficient rights and titles made to us for such lands as we shall have occasion to buy, that our children may have some settlement to depend on hereafter, and that by your authority we may be freed from the demands of the Indians of that part of the country, who pretend a right thereto. And we humbly beg leave to inform your Excellency and council, that there are fifty families more who, if they may be admitted upon the same conditions, are desirous to come and settle with us. We hope for your favorable answer to this our humble request, and as in duty bound shall ever pray, &c." JOHANNES YANS JOHANNES CLAES SHAVER PETER RITT JO. HAMELAR RITT CONRAD SCHITZ ANTONIS SHARB PALTUS UNSF JOHAN PETER PACHT TORITINE SERBO JOCHAM MICHAEL CRICHT JOSAP SAB SEBASTIAN PISAS JORGE RITT ANDREW FALBORN GODFREYT FILLER The above, as well as the portion to follow, is taken from "The German Emigration from New York Province into Pennsylvania: Part V of a narrative prepared at the request of the Pensylvania German Society" by Rev. Matthias Henry Richards, D.D. and presented in 1899. This next section deals with the long journey from New York to Pennsylvania which these original settlers made: "Guided by the indians, and not under the leadership of either the elder Weiser, or his gifted son, as some suppose, both of whom came later, the pioneers of 1723, with much toil and labor, cut their way through the forest, after which, with their wives, little ones and animals, they followed, by day, the scanty track they had made in the woods and slept at the foot of it's trees, wooed to slumber by its ceaseless noises, during the night, until the forty or fifty miles, which seperated them from the (Susquehanna) river, had been traversed. Then came the building and launching of the heavy rafts, to contain their domestic utensils, and of the light and speedy canoes for themselves, on which they were to continue their long journey to the haven of rest, accompanied slowly by their cattle driven along the river's banks. As forest and open space, trees, rocks, and sandy beach, succeeded each other with tiresome monotony, and as camp-fire followed camp-fire at the close of the day, they little reckoned that they had swept by the spots where the flourishing towns of Binghamton and Oswega were, later, to stand. As they rounded the curve where the Lackawanna joins the Susquehanna at Pittston, who was the wizard of their number whose divining rod would point to the priceless diamonds beneath them and tell them that their dumb animals were treading underfoot riches of far greater value to mankind than all the pearls and rubies for which the world was striving? Whose fancy amongst them all could have pictured or imagined the beautiful city of Wilkes-Barre, and the coal breakers everywhere rearing their heads into the air as though they were indeed giants issuing from their long slumber in the bowels of the earth? As they exchanged greetings with the Indians in their village of Shamokin can it be that there rose up before any one of them a picture of the hideous scenes of their near future, or any foresight of their murdered sons and daughters and the blackened ruins of the homes towards which they were hastening, or did the troubled dreams of any other reveal to him the fort at Sunbury, no longer Shamokin, filled with its soldiers, and sound into his astonished ears the booming of it's guns? Down the Grand stream, which was bearing them, they slowly floated until their watchful eyes caught sight of a long log cabin on its shores, where now stands the capitol city of Pennsylvania, and, as they looked upon the home of John Harris, it is altogether probable they saw, for the first time in all their journey, the dwelling of a white man. Cheered by the sight on they went, until they came to where the Swatara Creek joined it's waters with those of its mighty brother, and at the spot where Middletown now stands, our wanderers at last changed course and entered the stream which told them they were drawing near the goal towards which they had been hastening for so many weary days. To reach this goal was to endure a few more hardships and trials, and when, in the lovely Tulpehocken (which means "land where the turtle sang and wooed") region, nestling at the foot of the Blue Mountains and wavered by its numerous streams, they pitched their camp for the last time, it was HOME. Outside of the surrounding Indian villages, we have no record of previous settlements, so that, in very truth, they had taken up "vacant lands"." Thus is the connection of the Tulpehocken Settlement with the region of Schoharie, New York. Later, in the same paper, Rev. Richards writes: "There were constant accensions to the number of the first feeble band. In 1728 other families left Schoharie and settled (in Tulpehocken), amongst whom were: LEONARD ANSPACH, CASPAR HOHN GEORGE SCHMIDT, GEORGE ZEH, JOHANNES NOECKER, JOHANN JACOB HOLSTEINER, MICHAEL LAUER, ANDREAS KAPP, JACOB WERNER, JOHANN PHILIP SCHNEIDER, JACOB KATTERMAN, JACOB LOWENGUT, HEINRICH SIX, PHILIP THEIS, CONRAD SCHARF At a later point in he work, Rev Richards writes: "Before the erection of Berks County, in 1752, the township of Tulpehocken was a recognized division, being a part of Lancaster County in 1729. Because of its great size, in 1734, another township was laid off from it and erected, called "Heidelberg" to commemorate that part of the fatherland from whence many of the settlers came. The early inhabitants, therefore, of the old townships of Heidelburg and Tulpehocken, were composed, mainly (though not entirely) of the immigrants from New York Province. Rupp names the following as amongst the first settlers: JOHN ADAM DIFFEBACH, PETER LEBO, CHRISTIAN LOWER, CHRISTOPHER WEISER, JOHN SPYCKER, GEORGE BEISTEIN, JACOB LEDERMAN, JACOB KETTERMAN, JACOB FISHER, PETER ANSBACH, JOHN SOLLER, MICHAEL REID, JACOB SORBERT, HERMAN WALBORN, FRANCIS WENRICH, FREDERICK REED, ULRICH SCHWARTZ, GEORGE LANDAUER, STEPHEN CONRAD, HENRY BOYER, CONRAD SHERF, MARTIN STIP, JOHN LIVERGOOD, ABRAHAM LAUCH, PETER SANNS, PETER SERBY, ADAM STEIN CASPAR RITT, JOHN EDWARDS, PETER REED, GEORGE NULL, LENARD REES, JACOB LIVERGOOD, ADAM LESH, FRANCIS PARVIN, PHILIP BROWN, HENRY SELLER, PETER SHEVER, LUDOWICK ANSBACH,FELTY UNRUTH, GEORGE KING, JACOB MILLER, JOHN FOHRER, JACOB HUBELOR, CHRISTOPHER KEISER, JACOB WILHELM, JOHN TRAUTMAN, JACOB BARTNER, MICHAEL DETWEILER, NICHOLAS OLLY, NICHOLAS KINSER, JOHN HOVERSHEN, JOHN MOIR, SIMON SCHERMAN, HENRY STEIN, JOHN RIEGEL, CHRISTIAN MOIR, JACOB SCHWANER, GEORGE SHERMAN, HENRY MILLBERGER, PETER KEEPHART, WOLF MILLER, WILLIAM KEYSER, GEORGE PAFFINBERGER, GEORGE JACOB SHERMAN, GEORGE KANTRICO, GOTTFRIED ROHRER, DANIEL MOIR, JACOB HOFFMAN, MARTIN SCHELL, MATTHIAS DOEBLER, ADAM JORDAN, GEORGE WOLF, JACOB TANTOR, BARTEL DISSINGER, JACOB FULLMAN, GEORGE TALLINGER, MATTHIAS NOFFZIGER, JACOB REED, JOHN GEO. MEIRSLEM, FREDERICK KAUFMAN, JACOB MILLER, CHRISTIAN FRANK, SIMON BOGENREIF, RUDOLPH MOIR, ANDREW WOLLINBECK, MICHAEL KOFNER, GEORGE GOTYMAN, GEORGE BROSIUS, HENRY REIDENBACH, JACOB BORTNER, JOHN BALSAR SHEVER, JACOB CASERT, VALENTINE BRINDSEIL, CASPER REED, MARTIN WARNER, CHRISTOPHER ULRICH, WILIAM BRATH, JOHANN JACOB SNELBY, GOTTFRIED FITLER, MATHIAS BRICKER, PETER MINK, JOHN PONTIUS, CASPER STUMP, PETER CRISER, MATHIAS WAGNER, DANIEL LUCAS, NICHOLAS HAMBER, WILLIAM KEYSER, NICHOLAS MILLER, PHILIP GEBHART, GEORGE WEAVER, GEORGE ULRICH FISHER, PHILIP MEADE, WILLIAM DIELER, JOHN PHILIP BUNGER, CONRAD REBER, GEORGE CHRIST, VALENTINE BUNGARDNER, CONRAD WIRTH, NICHOLAS LANG, THOMAS KERN, FREDERICK STAP, MATHIAS SHEFER, VALENTINE NEU, JOHN RIDNORE, CHRISTIAN KURTZ, JACOB STOUGH, JOHN EBBERTS, JOHN GEORGE MATS, MICHAEL ALBERTS, WILLIAM SASSAMAN, PETER LAUX, ADAM REHM, PETER KRIEGER, JOHN ADAM WEAVER, JOHN WEISER, JACOB HOUKSVERT There are histories you should be able to obtain via "inter library loan." Perhaps some of our Tulpers could recommend some. Re Tulp Gp - it's a group of folks who share an interest in PG surnames, mainly in the Tulpehocken area of Berks and Lancaster Co.'s. With many of the families, however, the range quickly became much wider, as counties were quickly erected in that original area - now incl: Lebanon, Dauphin, York, Adams, etc. Judy Thayer

John Light, when researching my family (ZELLER) I found in court papers the Light and Zeller do u know anything of this think was in late 1800's... Bill Zeller John Light wrote: > Dear Roger, and other Lights and Light researchers who have been very > helpful in this query - I take the blame fully for the confusion about > sources, and again I apologize. As I said to Roger and the other Light > researchers participating in this discourse -off list- last week, I had > mis-remembered him as having additional sources for some of the > information I am now contesting, and I apologized when I discovered some > of our previous correspondence. I did not post any of the previous > correspondence nor last week's exchange to the list - but it seems to be > replicating on the list after the fact! I am sorry. > Now back to the genealogy. Roger and I, between us, have at least two > different written family records (call it tradition or not), from two > different branches of the Lebanon clan, that make use, as fact, the > contested information. It is the faith I do hold in the work of J. G. > Francis and Betty Behr that drives me to pursue the ORIGIN of these > discrepancies with their work. That I believe is good genealogy. As I > work my way back through the lines with the Francis book I have found > error and omission and I am seeking fact where it is to be found; I am > pleased to have opened up this particular debate given the interest and > varied opinion that has emerged. > John Light > Monterey, CA > > ==== PALEBANO Mailing List ==== > Thanks so much for joining the Lebanon County PA mailing list!

Dear Roger, and other Lights and Light researchers who have been very helpful in this query - I take the blame fully for the confusion about sources, and again I apologize. As I said to Roger and the other Light researchers participating in this discourse -off list- last week, I had mis-remembered him as having additional sources for some of the information I am now contesting, and I apologized when I discovered some of our previous correspondence. I did not post any of the previous correspondence nor last week's exchange to the list - but it seems to be replicating on the list after the fact! I am sorry. Now back to the genealogy. Roger and I, between us, have at least two different written family records (call it tradition or not), from two different branches of the Lebanon clan, that make use, as fact, the contested information. It is the faith I do hold in the work of J. G. Francis and Betty Behr that drives me to pursue the ORIGIN of these discrepancies with their work. That I believe is good genealogy. As I work my way back through the lines with the Francis book I have found error and omission and I am seeking fact where it is to be found; I am pleased to have opened up this particular debate given the interest and varied opinion that has emerged. John Light Monterey, CA

The New York Genealogical Society has hard copies of the early Salem Lutheran records. LWE

Hello All! With all this Light on the subject line I thought I'd bring up my "brick wall". While researching in Lebanon Co., Pa. Census 1860, July 6. Page 91/377 Line 17 (LDS Film # 00805128&129) I found the folowing. Josiah LIGHT 36m Lydia 31 f Mary LOUDON 8f Lydia LOUDON 20f Lydia LOUDON 3f Rebecca LIGHT 59f Page 97/383 Line 38 Abraham LIGHT 65m farmer Sarah 60f Cornelius 23 m Page 98/384 Line 1 Polly LIGHT 29f Eli LIGHT 25m Elizabeth 24f William Eckart 8m Wash Granell 23 m Watchmaker Harriet Granell 23f Does anyone know who the LOUDON women living with the LIGHT family are??? My elusive gg grandmother was Sarah C. LOUDEN (Loudon) b. c. 1820. Sarah married William B. WALLIS (Wallace) b. c. 1814. They raised their family, Cornelia (1847), Edward (1849), Charles(1851), Louden(1854), Mary(1857), Matilda(1860), in Northumberland Boro, N"umbrlnd Co., Pa. Idon"t know where Sarah or William were born or who their parents or siblings were. I have been searching for quite awhile. (My gg grandmother was named Sarah. Her first child was Cornelia. See Abraham above.) Hoping maybe someone can she some "light" on this mystery for me. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. Kate <katewreynolds@msn.com> -----Original Message----- From: PALEBANO-D-request@rootsweb.com <PALEBANO-D-request@rootsweb.com> To: PALEBANO-D@rootsweb.com <PALEBANO-D@rootsweb.com> Date: Sunday, March 14, 1999 2:11 PM Subject: PALEBANO-D Digest V99 #57

Daniel, Thanks for all the information. Some I do not have and will add it to my database. The Jonas Kreider you listed is the one I was referring to. Back to the original question. Is there just one Jonas Kreider in Lebanon, PA in the 1800s? If so, I have his picture in a photo album. There are about 30 pictures in the album, but only one with a name. Anyone remember back that far to give the faces their names (hehe)? I can share the scanned pictures with anyone who would like them, as soon as my wife lets me use the scanner on her computer. Bob Bensing > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel Lee Wenger [mailto:DanielWenger@worldnet.att.net] > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 1999 11:41 AM > To: PALEBANO-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [PALEBANO-L] Kreider Photo > > > >To all the Kreider researchers, > > > >I have a photo album from the 1800s. The backs of the visible > photos show > >the locations of Lebanon and Annville. There is only one photo > with a name. > >It is Jonas Kreider. I do have a Jonas Kreider (1810-1889, m. Barbara > >Schaeffer) in my family records. If this is his photo, it was > taken around > >1830. > > > >Does anyone know of any other Jonas Kreiders from Lebanon County for this > >time period? > > > >Bob Bensing in FL > > > > snip > ++++++ > name -- Jonas W. Kreider, 1810.12.27 1887.6.7 > snip > > information -- > GKC JGKF Married <Barbara Shaeffer, 1817.8.5 1889.9.14> on Nov. 30, 1837 > +++++++++++ snip

Grant I wanted to post some email from Roger Cramer that might help others to understand the sources of his information. I found his email to be quite helpful and clarifying. I am posting his email without his knowledge or consent and I hope that he will approve, after the fact, of my doing so. On the basis of his information I have adjusted my information on John Kreider on my web site to better reflect the sources of information and the tentative nature of that information. That site will be updated in the near future. Dan Wenger ++++++ From: RogerCubs@aol.com Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 12:51:18 EST To: jblight@redshift.com Cc: DanielWenger@worldnet.att.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Light Family Research Sources John, I was a little confused about your message as I don't specifically recall our earlier contacts. You are correct when you mention my contributions as not necessarily being "gospel". I have also been in touch with Betty Behr who wrote to me saying even she isn't positive which John Light was the immigrant. She told me she was still finding new information and hoped to eventually be able to prove something. I base the date of 1737 from the records I found in Illinois. I have an obituary for my 2nd great grandfather, John O. Light, who came in Illinois in 1837 that has a date of 1737 as the date our ancestor immigrated and uses the name John Peter Light. This obituary is from 1901. There is also an Ogle Co., IL biographical book published in the late 1800's that uses the name John Peter Light as the immigrant. Thirdly, I have a 100th Anniversary book for Leaf River, IL (near where John Light came to) that states August 30, 1737 as the immigrant John Peter Light's date of arrival. It shows the same line of descendents as are well known. The information in the book was obtained from Light family members at the time. I feel that the date and name must have been handed down in the family to show up in later years. I cannot claim any proof which is correct other than what I have found in Ogle Co., IL where I was born. I know most researchers use 1738 as the correct date, but there are records of a John Light arriving in 1737 also. Wilbur Light, John O. Light's grandson, who died in 1971 was the family genealogist. He contributed information to the Leaf River book. I have no idea what happened to his records. As far as the name Kreider goes, I have no proof of that either. I have seen both spellings but since I have seen the Kreider name often in my research of the area, assume that to be the correct spelling. I have received information from several Light researchers and added it to my database. It seems there are as many theories on the family as there are researchers. I try to be careful when exchanging information to say that some of the dates and names in my database have been given to me by other researchers and that I cannot guarantee accuracy. I hope this answers your questions but please continue to write as I am also interested in any new information that becomes available. Roger Cramer ++++++++++ >I noted with interest the recent posts from Bob Bensing, Donna Ristenbatt >and some others regarding a possible EARLY link between the Lebanon LIGHTs >and the KREIDERS. I've also had some correspondence with John Light of >Monterey, CA on the same subject. > >If my understanding is correct, this John Light is a descendant of John >LIGHT of Lebanon, who arrived at the port of Philadelphia on 5 Sep 1738 >aboard the Winter Galley. This John LIGHT, and his descendants, are the >subjects of an exhaustive study carried on by the Rev. R. G. Francis >(1870-1958), a Lebanon genealogist with a reputation for talent and >experience, mostly between the years 1929 through 1932. The results of >this study were published posthumously through the good offices of >Searchlight Editor Betty M. Light Behr by the Closson Press in April 1990 >under the title "History and Genealogy of Early Pioneer Families of Lebanon >County, Pennsylvania". This, I am persuaded, is, without serious question, >the seminal study of this family and its history. Rev. Francis, early on >in his introductory discussion (p. 8) has this to say concerning the spouse >of John LIGHT of Lebanon: "As to his wife, we know not her Christian name. > nor her family name. Their son Jacob states that his mother died Nov. 12, >1758. She was doubtless considerably younger than her husband, for she >bore a son as late as 1738. Perhaps the daughter Barbara was still >younger, certainly so if she married Casper Shirk, for Casper's wife >Barbara was born May 13, 1739." > >John LIGHT must have contracted his marriage in Europe well before his 1738 >journey to the Colonies. In fact, his eldest child, son John, is recorded >as having been born 21 Feb 1726 (p. 13). If his wife was named KREIDER >(Maria or otherwise), it seems unlikely that she is of either of the >KREIDER families sojourning in Ittlingen, as discussed in the PMH articles >of John Marsh and Jane Best, because (1) neither family is recorded as >having a daughter named Maria, and (2) neither family is recorded as having >a daughter of the requisite age to have been capable of bearing a child in >1726 (none, that is, who is not otherwise accounted for). Of course, there >were lots of KREIDERs in that part of Europe at that time, many of them >doubtless female and available for marriage. And there is no showing that >John LIGHT the Immigrant had any connection with Ittlingen. Nevertheless, >it does put in question whether, if John LIGHT's wife was a KREIDER, she >was directly connected with the Ittlingen KREIDERs, who were the >progenitors of the Lebanon KREIDERs. > >Now to the question of "family tradition" raised by John Light of Monteray. > I am also a descendant of John LIGHT the Immigrant. I have devoted >considerable time to the study of the family literature (admittedly, most >of it secondary), and I must say that I have never heard or read of such a >"tradition." I have it from a respected source that one of the purveyors >of this information is a gentleman named Roger Cramer (with whom I am not >acquainted). I have it further from this source that Mr. Cramer has not >offered to furnish a source for this information, having been requested to >do so. There is this to be said, however: I understand from my source >that Mr Cramer states the spouse of Maria KREIDER is named John (Johannes) >Peter LIGHT. > >Again referring To Rev. Francis' work, he tells us that there were a number >of John LIGHTs (with variant surname spellings) who arrived at Philadelphia >at about the same time as our John LIGHT; that among these were Johan >Peter LIGHT, who arrived on 30 Aug 1737 aboard the Samuel, and Peter LIGHT, >who arrived on 27 Oct 1733 aboard the Saint Andrew. Of these and other >LIGHT immigrants, Rev. Francis has this to say (p. 2): "We do not attempt >to determine where the Light immigrants, afore, settled. That is beyond >our sphere. As to the settlers we simply let it be known, from the records >found, that they had settled; there is no intention to give history beyond >the record quoted, unless those under consideration were connected vitally >with our Lights of Lebanon county." Not to put words in the Reverend's >mouth, he seems quite clearly to be telling us that his work is devoted >solely to the John [Johannes] LIGHT who arrived in Philadelphia on 5 Sep >1738 aboard the Winter Galley, and to his progeny. And when the Reverend >tells us that the name of this John LIGHT's wife is not known, it's going >to take a powerful lot to convince me otherwise, family tradition or no. > >Grant Miller >max@cftnet.com > > >==== PALEBANO Mailing List ==== >For a great list of most of the on-line mailing lists (and ability to >subscribe to them) check out John Fuller's Internet Resources web page: ><http://members.aol.com/johnf14246/internet.html> Daniel Lee Wenger Santa Cruz, CA DanielWenger@worldnet.att.net http://wengersundial.com http://wengersundial.com/wengerfamily

Thanks to all who responded to my query. I have not seen the Hank Jones book, _The Palatine Families of New York_ but will look for it in the libraries. Grace

Aren't we lucky to have Daniel Lee Wenger? He seems to have a lot of information about everyone. This isn't my line, but thanks for being there Daniel. Daniel Lee Wenger wrote: > > >To all the Kreider researchers, > > > >I have a photo album from the 1800s. The backs of the visible photos show > >the locations of Lebanon and Annville. There is only one photo with a name. > >It is Jonas Kreider. I do have a Jonas Kreider (1810-1889, m. Barbara > >Schaeffer) in my family records. If this is his photo, it was taken around > >1830. > > > >Does anyone know of any other Jonas Kreiders from Lebanon County for this > >time period? > > > >Bob Bensing in FL > > > > > > > >==== PALEBANO Mailing List ==== > >Thanks so much for joining the Lebanon County PA mailing list! > > ++++++ > name -- Jonas W. Kreider, 1810.12.27 1887.6.7 > > father -- Henry (Heinrich) B. Kreider, 1774.9.12 1835.4.9 > mother -- Christina/Christiana Wittemeyer, 1777.7.11 1864.8.3 > > paternal grandfather -- Jacob Kreider, 1742.8.5 1822.1.12 > paternal grandmother -- Susannah Long, 1745~ 1806- > > maternal grandfather -- Ludwig Wittemeyer, 1729 1820,, (i1750) ^ > maternal grandmother -- Maria wife of Ludwig Wittemeyer, 1742 1830,, ^ > > sibling -- > Mary Kreider, 1807.1.16 1896.3.3,, 0 > Jacob W. Kreider, 1808.9.11 1870.2.4,, Rev. > Catharine Kreider, 1813.2.24 1879.1.15,, * > Henry Widemoyer Kreider, 1815.6.22 1910.10.11 > > offspring -- > John Shaeffer Kreider, 1839.4.25 > Christiana Kreider, 1841.1.6 1925.5.2 > Henry S. Kreider, 1842.12.31 > Catharine Kreider, 1844.10.17 > Barbara Kreider, 1846.11.25,, * > Maria Kreider, 1849.1.28 > Levi Kreider, 1851.10.21,, * > > information -- > GKC JGKF Married <Barbara Shaeffer, 1817.8.5 1889.9.14> on Nov. 30, 1837 > +++++++++++ > name -- Jonas L. Kreider, 1844.1.5 1852.1.5,, 0 > > father -- Jacob W. Kreider, 1808.9.11 1870.2.4,, Rev. > mother -- Maria Long, 1813.10.4 1890.6.18 > > paternal grandfather -- Henry (Heinrich) B. Kreider, 1774.9.12 1835.4.9 > paternal grandmother -- Christina/Christiana Wittemeyer, 1777.7.11 1864.8.3 > > maternal grandfather -- Joseph Long, 1790~ > maternal grandmother -- Barbara wife of Joseph Long, 1791~,, ^ > > sibling -- > Elizabeth Kreider, 1833.12.7 1834.8.3,, 0 > Joseph Long Kreider, 1834.12.20 1915.4.5,, Deacon > Henry L. Kreider, 1836.10.31 > Jacob Kreider, 1836.10.31,, * > William Long Kreider, 1838.9.26 > Daniel Long Kreider, 1840.9.24 1841.2.7,, 0 > Abraham L. Kreider, 1841.12.16 1908.5 > Lydia Kreider, 1845.8.14 1852.1.5,, 0 > Adam Kreider, 1847.12.24 1848.3,, 0 > Cyrus Kreider, 1849.4.2 1851.12.27,, 0 > John Kreider, 1852.9.27,, * > Sarah L. Kreider, 1857.11.16 > Benjamin L. Kreider, 1857.4.16,, 0 > > offspring -- > > information -- > JGFK > ++++++++++++ > name -- Jonas Brubaker Kreider, 1856.4.24 1929.3.3 > > father -- Henry Widemoyer Kreider, 1815.6.22 1910.10.11 > mother -- Susan Eberly Brubaker, 1822.3.2 1867.8.10 > > paternal grandfather -- Henry (Heinrich) B. Kreider, 1774.9.12 1835.4.9 > paternal grandmother -- Christina/Christiana Wittemeyer, 1777.7.11 1864.8.3 > > maternal grandfather -- Christian Brubaker, 1787 1863 > maternal grandmother -- Elizabeth Eberly, 1786.2.17 1863.1.19 > > sibling -- > Mary Brubaker Kreider, 1840.10.30 1912.7.2 > Elizabeth B. Kreider, 1842.1.13 1911.7.22,, 0 > Anna B. Kreider, 1843.9.22 1844.12.26,, 0 > Israel B. Kreider, 1845.2.22 1845.9.9,, 0 > Samuel Brubaker Kreider, 1847.6.30 1926.5.2 > Sarah B. Kreider, 1849.1.17 1918.10.14 > Christian B. Kreider, 1850.7.25 1850.9.28,, 0 > Henry B. Kreider, 1850.7.25 1850.9.28,, 0 > Aaron B. Kreider, 1851.12.15 1863.2.24,, 0 > Malinda B. Kreider, 1853.10.12,, 0 > Edwin B. Kreider, 1854.12.15 1856.3.24,, 0 > Felix B. Kreider, 1858.1.14 1945.9.22 > Cassie B. Kreider, 1859.6.2 1910.9.4 > Cassie B. Kreider, 1859.6.2 1910.9.4 > Veronica B. Kreider, 1860.12.29 1861.10.31,, 0 > > offspring -- > Rosa May Kreider, 1880.5.13 > Agnes Sarah Kreider, 1882.10.10 > > information -- > JGF 331 Married <Ida L. Zinn, 1860.6.28> Killed by a trolley > +++++++++++ > > Dan Wenger > > Daniel Lee Wenger > Santa Cruz, CA > DanielWenger@worldnet.att.net > http://wengersundial.com > http://wengersundial.com/wengerfamily > > ==== PALEBANO Mailing List ==== > To contact the owner of the PALEBANO Mailing List, please contact: > ltmiller@mail.ptd.net

>To all the Kreider researchers, > >I have a photo album from the 1800s. The backs of the visible photos show >the locations of Lebanon and Annville. There is only one photo with a name. >It is Jonas Kreider. I do have a Jonas Kreider (1810-1889, m. Barbara >Schaeffer) in my family records. If this is his photo, it was taken around >1830. > >Does anyone know of any other Jonas Kreiders from Lebanon County for this >time period? > >Bob Bensing in FL > > > >==== PALEBANO Mailing List ==== >Thanks so much for joining the Lebanon County PA mailing list! ++++++ name -- Jonas W. Kreider, 1810.12.27 1887.6.7 father -- Henry (Heinrich) B. Kreider, 1774.9.12 1835.4.9 mother -- Christina/Christiana Wittemeyer, 1777.7.11 1864.8.3 paternal grandfather -- Jacob Kreider, 1742.8.5 1822.1.12 paternal grandmother -- Susannah Long, 1745~ 1806- maternal grandfather -- Ludwig Wittemeyer, 1729 1820,, (i1750) ^ maternal grandmother -- Maria wife of Ludwig Wittemeyer, 1742 1830,, ^ sibling -- Mary Kreider, 1807.1.16 1896.3.3,, 0 Jacob W. Kreider, 1808.9.11 1870.2.4,, Rev. Catharine Kreider, 1813.2.24 1879.1.15,, * Henry Widemoyer Kreider, 1815.6.22 1910.10.11 offspring -- John Shaeffer Kreider, 1839.4.25 Christiana Kreider, 1841.1.6 1925.5.2 Henry S. Kreider, 1842.12.31 Catharine Kreider, 1844.10.17 Barbara Kreider, 1846.11.25,, * Maria Kreider, 1849.1.28 Levi Kreider, 1851.10.21,, * information -- GKC JGKF Married <Barbara Shaeffer, 1817.8.5 1889.9.14> on Nov. 30, 1837 +++++++++++ name -- Jonas L. Kreider, 1844.1.5 1852.1.5,, 0 father -- Jacob W. Kreider, 1808.9.11 1870.2.4,, Rev. mother -- Maria Long, 1813.10.4 1890.6.18 paternal grandfather -- Henry (Heinrich) B. Kreider, 1774.9.12 1835.4.9 paternal grandmother -- Christina/Christiana Wittemeyer, 1777.7.11 1864.8.3 maternal grandfather -- Joseph Long, 1790~ maternal grandmother -- Barbara wife of Joseph Long, 1791~,, ^ sibling -- Elizabeth Kreider, 1833.12.7 1834.8.3,, 0 Joseph Long Kreider, 1834.12.20 1915.4.5,, Deacon Henry L. Kreider, 1836.10.31 Jacob Kreider, 1836.10.31,, * William Long Kreider, 1838.9.26 Daniel Long Kreider, 1840.9.24 1841.2.7,, 0 Abraham L. Kreider, 1841.12.16 1908.5 Lydia Kreider, 1845.8.14 1852.1.5,, 0 Adam Kreider, 1847.12.24 1848.3,, 0 Cyrus Kreider, 1849.4.2 1851.12.27,, 0 John Kreider, 1852.9.27,, * Sarah L. Kreider, 1857.11.16 Benjamin L. Kreider, 1857.4.16,, 0 offspring -- information -- JGFK ++++++++++++ name -- Jonas Brubaker Kreider, 1856.4.24 1929.3.3 father -- Henry Widemoyer Kreider, 1815.6.22 1910.10.11 mother -- Susan Eberly Brubaker, 1822.3.2 1867.8.10 paternal grandfather -- Henry (Heinrich) B. Kreider, 1774.9.12 1835.4.9 paternal grandmother -- Christina/Christiana Wittemeyer, 1777.7.11 1864.8.3 maternal grandfather -- Christian Brubaker, 1787 1863 maternal grandmother -- Elizabeth Eberly, 1786.2.17 1863.1.19 sibling -- Mary Brubaker Kreider, 1840.10.30 1912.7.2 Elizabeth B. Kreider, 1842.1.13 1911.7.22,, 0 Anna B. Kreider, 1843.9.22 1844.12.26,, 0 Israel B. Kreider, 1845.2.22 1845.9.9,, 0 Samuel Brubaker Kreider, 1847.6.30 1926.5.2 Sarah B. Kreider, 1849.1.17 1918.10.14 Christian B. Kreider, 1850.7.25 1850.9.28,, 0 Henry B. Kreider, 1850.7.25 1850.9.28,, 0 Aaron B. Kreider, 1851.12.15 1863.2.24,, 0 Malinda B. Kreider, 1853.10.12,, 0 Edwin B. Kreider, 1854.12.15 1856.3.24,, 0 Felix B. Kreider, 1858.1.14 1945.9.22 Cassie B. Kreider, 1859.6.2 1910.9.4 Cassie B. Kreider, 1859.6.2 1910.9.4 Veronica B. Kreider, 1860.12.29 1861.10.31,, 0 offspring -- Rosa May Kreider, 1880.5.13 Agnes Sarah Kreider, 1882.10.10 information -- JGF 331 Married <Ida L. Zinn, 1860.6.28> Killed by a trolley +++++++++++ Dan Wenger Daniel Lee Wenger Santa Cruz, CA DanielWenger@worldnet.att.net http://wengersundial.com http://wengersundial.com/wengerfamily

John, I believe that the Lebanon County Historical Society at http://www.leba.net/~history2/ has these records, but not on line. Bob Bensing > -----Original Message----- > From: John Hower [mailto:jhower@leba.net] > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 1999 10:19 AM > To: PALEBANO-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [PALEBANO-L] request for Salem Lutheran info > > > > Hi all, > > I was sent the message copied below. Does anyone on the list have records > from Salem, or know of a location for them? I supplied the writer with the > information I have about Salem and gave her the address and phone number, > if she wants to contact the church directly. > > Thanks, > > John Hower > > COPIED MESSAGE: > In your research, have you come across the > Salem Evangelical Lutheran Church. One of > my ancestors, Samuel Ritter, was supposedly > baptised in this church on September 2, 1791, > and I would like to get copies of the church > records. My records indicate that the SELC > was in the city of Lebanon, Lebanon Co., in > 1791. >

In a message dated 3/14/99 11:10:45 AM Pacific Standard Time, DanielWenger@worldnet.att.net writes: << I have it from a respected source that one of the purveyors >of this information is a gentleman named Roger Cramer (with whom I am not >acquainted). I have it further from this source that Mr. Cramer has not >offered to furnish a source for this information, having been requested to >do so. There is this to be said, however: I understand from my source >that Mr Cramer states the spouse of Maria KREIDER is named John (Johannes) >> Dan, I have no problem with you posting my earlier message. I do not know where Grant Miller got the idea that I wouldn't furnish information on my sources as I don't remember any correspondence from him or anyone else that I didn't reply to. I'm always glad to share what information I have and welcome anything I get from others. If anyone would like copies of my Illinois research, I would be glad to mail it to them. Roger Cramer

Hi all, I was sent the message copied below. Does anyone on the list have records from Salem, or know of a location for them? I supplied the writer with the information I have about Salem and gave her the address and phone number, if she wants to contact the church directly. Thanks, John Hower COPIED MESSAGE: In your research, have you come across the Salem Evangelical Lutheran Church. One of my ancestors, Samuel Ritter, was supposedly baptised in this church on September 2, 1791, and I would like to get copies of the church records. My records indicate that the SELC was in the city of Lebanon, Lebanon Co., in 1791.

To all the Kreider researchers, I have a photo album from the 1800s. The backs of the visible photos show the locations of Lebanon and Annville. There is only one photo with a name. It is Jonas Kreider. I do have a Jonas Kreider (1810-1889, m. Barbara Schaeffer) in my family records. If this is his photo, it was taken around 1830. Does anyone know of any other Jonas Kreiders from Lebanon County for this time period? Bob Bensing in FL

Hi I really wasn't paying to much attention to the Light discussion as it wasn't my line, but I was going through some info on my RUPP line and came across a John Russell Light b Jan. 1945 in Lebanon and died Aug 1997 in Quebec but he is buried Chapel Pleasant Hill cem. in Lebanon--he married Helen Mae Rupp in 1964 (I don't know if she is from my line) and they were married by Rev. Heming -------she was the daughter of John E. Rupp and Elizabeth Batz and they had 2 children-------I don't know who they were though--------I realize this is pretty recent info and probably doesn't help much but I thought I'd send it along------hope everyone has a great weekend----------nancy Grant Miller wrote: > > I noted with interest the recent posts from Bob Bensing, Donna Ristenbatt > and some others regarding a possible EARLY link between the Lebanon LIGHTs > and the KREIDERS. I've also had some correspondence with John Light of > Monterey, CA on the same subject. > > If my understanding is correct, this John Light is a descendant of John > LIGHT of Lebanon, who arrived at the port of Philadelphia on 5 Sep 1738 > aboard the Winter Galley. This John LIGHT, and his descendants, are the > subjects of an exhaustive study carried on by the Rev. R. G. Francis > (1870-1958), a Lebanon genealogist with a reputation for talent and > experience, mostly between the years 1929 through 1932. The results of > this study were published posthumously through the good offices of > Searchlight Editor Betty M. Light Behr by the Closson Press in April 1990 > under the title "History and Genealogy of Early Pioneer Families of Lebanon > County, Pennsylvania". This, I am persuaded, is, without serious question, > the seminal study of this family and its history. Rev. Francis, early on > in his introductory discussion (p. 8) has this to say concerning the spouse > of John LIGHT of Lebanon: "As to his wife, we know not her Christian name. > nor her family name. Their son Jacob states that his mother died Nov. 12, > 1758. She was doubtless considerably younger than her husband, for she > bore a son as late as 1738. Perhaps the daughter Barbara was still > younger, certainly so if she married Casper Shirk, for Casper's wife > Barbara was born May 13, 1739." > > John LIGHT must have contracted his marriage in Europe well before his 1738 > journey to the Colonies. In fact, his eldest child, son John, is recorded > as having been born 21 Feb 1726 (p. 13). If his wife was named KREIDER > (Maria or otherwise), it seems unlikely that she is of either of the > KREIDER families sojourning in Ittlingen, as discussed in the PMH articles > of John Marsh and Jane Best, because (1) neither family is recorded as > having a daughter named Maria, and (2) neither family is recorded as having > a daughter of the requisite age to have been capable of bearing a child in > 1726 (none, that is, who is not otherwise accounted for). Of course, there > were lots of KREIDERs in that part of Europe at that time, many of them > doubtless female and available for marriage. And there is no showing that > John LIGHT the Immigrant had any connection with Ittlingen. Nevertheless, > it does put in question whether, if John LIGHT's wife was a KREIDER, she > was directly connected with the Ittlingen KREIDERs, who were the > progenitors of the Lebanon KREIDERs. > > Now to the question of "family tradition" raised by John Light of Monteray. > I am also a descendant of John LIGHT the Immigrant. I have devoted > considerable time to the study of the family literature (admittedly, most > of it secondary), and I must say that I have never heard or read of such a > "tradition." I have it from a respected source that one of the purveyors > of this information is a gentleman named Roger Cramer (with whom I am not > acquainted). I have it further from this source that Mr. Cramer has not > offered to furnish a source for this information, having been requested to > do so. There is this to be said, however: I understand from my source > that Mr Cramer states the spouse of Maria KREIDER is named John (Johannes) > Peter LIGHT. > > Again referring To Rev. Francis' work, he tells us that there were a number > of John LIGHTs (with variant surname spellings) who arrived at Philadelphia > at about the same time as our John LIGHT; that among these were Johan > Peter LIGHT, who arrived on 30 Aug 1737 aboard the Samuel, and Peter LIGHT, > who arrived on 27 Oct 1733 aboard the Saint Andrew. Of these and other > LIGHT immigrants, Rev. Francis has this to say (p. 2): "We do not attempt > to determine where the Light immigrants, afore, settled. That is beyond > our sphere. As to the settlers we simply let it be known, from the records > found, that they had settled; there is no intention to give history beyond > the record quoted, unless those under consideration were connected vitally > with our Lights of Lebanon county." Not to put words in the Reverend's > mouth, he seems quite clearly to be telling us that his work is devoted > solely to the John [Johannes] LIGHT who arrived in Philadelphia on 5 Sep > 1738 aboard the Winter Galley, and to his progeny. And when the Reverend > tells us that the name of this John LIGHT's wife is not known, it's going > to take a powerful lot to convince me otherwise, family tradition or no. > > Grant Miller > max@cftnet.com > > ==== PALEBANO Mailing List ==== > For a great list of most of the on-line mailing lists (and ability to subscribe to them) check out John Fuller's Internet Resources web page: > <http://members.aol.com/johnf14246/internet.html>