Oh, one more thing - you *MUST* accept the cookie for rootsweb!!! This will store your password!! -Linnea

Hi All! This method of searching our mailing list archives is still in Beta test, so some unusual things may happen. I did want to share the URL with you as it is another way to search through our past messages. <http://archiver.rootsweb.com/archives/PALEBANO-L/> When you choose the records you want to search you will be taken to a login screen. The first time you visit you must click "here" to register a login & password for access [choose your own name & password.] This is to prevent spammers from harvesting our addresses. You only do this once and can search any of the Rootsweb mailing lists with this one login. Have fun! -Linnea Miller Listowner

Also spent 5 years in Bethel Alaska 1949-54 Earl -----Original Message----- From: Launie Graffeo [mailto:launie@ptialaska.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 12:55 PM To: PALEBANO-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [PALEBANO-L] RE: "America's First Families" I apologize list members, but there was a person who asked a very important question in the past few days and I remember someone responding to it. I dont remember who or what list. Could someone who knows please contact this person for me and tell her what the responder originally said about "America's First Families" being a scam. Thank you for your time. Please read below: launie Subject: Re: Question? Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:45:09 -0900 From: Launie Graffeo <launie@ptialaska.net> To: RRediger <redi2@chibardun.net> References: 1 I will forward your question to all the maillists I'm subscribed to and see if the person who wrote that statement will respond again. I have no idea which one or who said it. Be patient, I will find out if I can. I don't think you have anything to worry about unless you gave them personal info. launie RRediger wrote: > Launie, > Thank you for answering my question. What exactly did you hear? I am really > afraid that I shouldn't have sent the documents. I don't know exactly what > they can do with them. Probably nothing everyone except myself is dead. > Rosa > > -----Original Message----- > From: Launie Graffeo [mailto:launie@ptialaska.net] > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 9:51 AM > To: RRediger > Cc: GenMassachusetts-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: Question? > > I had recently heard from someone on another genealogy list that "America's > First Families" was a scam. > > launie > > RRediger wrote: > > > List members, > > Please forgive me for putting this question here, but I thought maybe a > > member could help me. > > Has anyone heard of an organization called Sons & Daughters of America's > > First Families? Having a family member from the early 1600's in Mass. I > > joined. I have not heard anything yet and was wondering if sending > documents > > was the wrong thing to do. Could somebody use our ancestors documents for > a > > scam of some sort? Again I apologize for putting this our mailing list. > > Rosa ==== PALEBANO Mailing List ==== Found any good sites lately? We'd sure like to know about them!

"Can someone explain a weaver's pattern book to me?" The old weaver's pattern books are not easy to read or explain. Even if you know something about looms and weaving they are not easy to read. Just last Autumn I had a 2 hour workshop on reading old weaving drafts. Your best bet is to contact your local weaving guild and see if there is someone there who can read and explain the old drafts to you. Many do use German words. Tweel means Twill Fustian means wool fabric Gesteinte und gebrochene means block and broken Hin und wieder means back and forth work as some examples. Do you know the date of the weaver's pattern book and was it by Rohland? Contact me and I will try to give you some more information. Sue linumbienn@aol.com

Greetings, You might try PA-German Pioneers by Strassburger & Hinke. Since its publication in 1934 almost two generations ago by the Pennsylvania German Society as Vols 42-44 of its Proceedings, Strassburger and Hinke's Pennsylvania German Pioneers has been the cornerstone, virtually the bible, of all Pennsylvania German genealogical research. Its three volumes contain the verbatim passenger lists, including the original signatures, of virtually all of the 30,000 heads of German-speaking families who arrived in the port of Philadelphia during the fifty years prior to the American Revolution. The total of 65,000 passengers covered in these lists represent roughly two-thirds of all German-speaking immigrants who arrived in American during the almost one hundred years 1683-1775! Or you might go to the source of all the books on the subject, the Pennsylvania Archives. The only difference I have noticed between S& H and Rupp Is that the former go into more detail, whereas Rupp tends to be more "barebones". Also, Rupp stops at 1775; S&H go to 1808; but there couldn't have been much migration to the colonies during the rebellion, since all the transports were English ships. In all fairness to Profesor Rupp, who has written quite a few books relating to the history and genealogy of the PA-German area, I wouldn't call him unreliable. My copy of his 30,000 Immigrants to PA is quite shopworn. And, it is much cheaper than the three S&H Pa-German Pioneers volumes, which sell for $175.00 per set. I think I paid about $45.00 for Rupp. So, if you have access to a library, use S&H; if you're buying, get Rupp. -----Original Message----- From: der@redrose.net <der@redrose.net> To: PALEBANO-L@rootsweb.com <PALEBANO-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Sunday, March 14, 1999 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [PALEBANO-L] SCHOHARIE TO LEBANON/BERKS >Hello Richard, > > >> Among many sources of early Tulpehockensettlers are Rupp's 30,000 Names of >> Immigrants in PA and Henry Jones's Palatine Families of NY, 1710. According >> to Berks Co Archives, Jacob Wagner died intestate in 1791, resulting in a >> letter of administration being issued to the widow Appolonia on 03 Mar 1791. > >I have a question on this source. I noticed that it seems to be given >frequently as a source for info pertaining to the Palatines, etc. When I >was at the National Genealogical Society Conference at Valley Forge, >Jonathan Stayer from the PA State Archives was one of the speakers. >(excellent speaker!) He listed the order of "reliability" regarding ships' >lists. Rupp's _Thirty Thousand Names_ was last on the list of >reliability. Also, I note in Hank Jones' (another speaker at that >conference) books on the Palatines, that he, too, questions some of >Rupp's info. I guess my point is this - is there any other source that >might have the same info and not be questioned as much? Thanks. > >Regards, >Donna Ristenbatt >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >der@redrose.net >Visit: ON THE TRAIL OF OUR ANCESTORS >http://www.ristenbatt.com/genealogy >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Ships' Lists, PA and Mennonite Research Corner, >Dutch Research Corner, Cemetery Lists, >Rev. War Loyalists, Finding a Civil War Ancestor, >Many Surnames and More! > > >==== PALEBANO Mailing List ==== >Check out the Lebanon County PA Historical Society web page: ><http://www.leba.net/~history2/> > >

This is an interesting discussion. I believe that family tradition can be recorded in written format at any time in history. This information is then passed on in written format and reported at any later time as family tradition. Thus currently reported famly tradition can be very old family tradition. Hope this helps in the discussion. Dan Wenger >John Light wrote: >> >> Leroy - Unless you are referring to the specific Light family traditions >> I reference, and if I understand your question, this is my understanding >> of "family tradition" when used in genealogy: >> Any story or information about the family that is passed down from >> generation to generation. The tradition may have, or often does not >> have, factual basis or a reliable source such as public record to back >> it up. Example: for years my father told us we were descended from a >> famous patriot based on what he remembered as a child. I could write a >> genealogy based on that information, citing "family tradition". >> However, I have disproved that ancestry (the patriot was a cousin, not >> an ancestor) using actual death, burial, war and wedding records. I now >> write a different genealogy with reliable, or primary sources. >> Sometimes family tradition is all you have to go on, but it is based on >> memory and recollection, not exactly infallible. Many written family >> histories (as I am contesting) simply state information as fact without >> any reference to reliable source; I suppose this too would be a form of >> "family tradition", or perhaps "secondary source without factual >> basis". Any one else care to take a stab? >> John Light >> Monterey, CA >> > I found your letter very interesting. I have nothing of substance to >> > add, but I was very curious about the source of what you call a family >> > tradition. Can you tell us more? >> > Leroy Miller >> > West Hills, CA >> >> ==== PALEBANO Mailing List ==== >> Visit Rootsweb and support our sponsor: >> <http://www.rootsweb.com> > >John, > >What attracted my curiousity was the sentence, "I am trying to find the >origins of what may only be family tradition that our assumed, and >prolific, Lebanon Light family immigrant (1738) Johannes Licht/Light >married a Maria Kreider ca late 1720s in Germany." Most oral family >traditions don't extend that far back, and I wondered what method of >handing down this family information was used in your family. Did you >have an older relative that had memorized all this from an even older >oral tradition? Could it have stemmed from some old written text, >similar to the one by Moses Light? Does, or did, such a written account >exist? There is some disagreement as to when the Immigrant John Light >came to America and exactly who he was. I wondered if your family >tradition involved this confusion about the identity and history of John >the Immigrant. > >In my own family, for example, I remember my mother mentioning orally >the names Lydia Zinn and Veronica Ellenberger as being in her >grandmother's line. (The Light names, of course, all blend together and >become almost indistinguishable after oral history has been transferred >through a few generations, but the more unusual names---the wives they >married---stand out in one's memory.) My mother was raised by her >grandmother, and they both had a penchant for talking about their >"Freindschaft." Later I found these names in the book by Rev. Francis >and the book by Moses Light. (The latter contains errors, of course, >which are easy to detect.) However, if your family tradition goes back >to Maria Kreider as being the wife of the Immigrant, that is another two >generations further back. The oral transmission of so much family >history is remarkable but not impossible, and I wondered if you could >describe how it might have occurred. > >Leroy > > >==== PALEBANO Mailing List ==== >For a great list of most of the on-line mailing lists (and ability to >subscribe to them) check out John Fuller's Internet Resources web page: ><http://members.aol.com/johnf14246/internet.html> Daniel Lee Wenger Santa Cruz, CA DanielWenger@worldnet.att.net http://wengersundial.com http://wengersundial.com/wengerfamily

Dick, These Kochs are listed in FTM CD 166. There are a few Georges Koch listed in Philadelphia Co. Berks and York Counties have many Kochs, but I didn't see any by the name George in the time period you are looking. Church Records: Selected Areas of PA, 1600s-1800s First Reformed Congregation at Lancaster, PA John George, son of George Koch & Catharine, nee Erchtebrech, bapt. May 10, 1742. Spon: John Jacob Weyl & wife Catharine, nee Dautermann. Maria Christine, daughter of Hartman Koch and Maria Agnes, b. December 13, 1757, bapt. March 8, 1758. Spon: Juliana Christine Erni. John Carl, son of John Michael Koch and Sophia Dorothy, b. January 21, 1762, bapt. February 7, 1762. Spon: John Carl Schneider and Maria Elizabeth. Sophia, daughter of Conrad Lind and Anna Maria, b. December 26, 1762, bapt. January 1, 1763. Spon: John Michael Koch and Sophia Dorothy. Maria Elizabeth, daughter of John Michael Koch and Sophia Dorothy, b. November 19, 1763, bapt. December 4, 1763. Spon: John Reichert Heiss and Anna Maria. John George, son of Michael Koch and Sophia, b. March 25, 1766, bapt. March 30, 1766. Spon: John Richard Heus and Joanna Maria. John Michael Koch m. Sophia Diederich on May 5, 1761. John Ziegler m. Elizabeth Barb. Koch on April 9, 1771. Henry Orther m. Magdalene Koch on December 18, 1774. Margaret Koch, bur. August 20, 1785, age 81 years, 2 months, 24 days. St. James Episcopal Church (Anglican) 1773 Jan 8 - Jacob Haeffer and Magdalena Koch, license Baptisms and Marriages by Casper Stoever, Lancaster County March 21, 1736 - George Michael Koch and Anna Catarina Ergebrecht, Warwick. Oct. 1, 1779 - John Jacob Voltz and Christina Koch, Warwick. St. Jacob's Kimmerling's Reformed Church, Lebanon Co. John Leonard of Nicholas Fehler and Barbara, b. May 30, 1779; bapt. Jun 13. Spon: John Jacob Georg and Anna Maria Koch. St. John's Union Church, Fredericksburg, Lebanon Co. M. Christina of Catharine Marte (Martin), "Hure" (bastard), b. Sep 10, 1781; bapt. Oct 3, 1781. Spon: Eva Koch. The Quitopahilla (Hill) Church (Lutheran), Lebanon Co. Susanna of Martin Koch and wife Elizabeth, b. Dec --, 1767; bapt. Dec 6, 1767. Spon: Andrew Karg and wife Susanna. Jacob Seiler, b. Aug 22, 1757 in the Earldom Leiningen in the Central Palatinate. Spon: Jacob Herman. Confirmed a Lutheran. Came to this country in 1772. ---- 23, 1775 married Mrs. ----, nee Koch; 16 children, 10 surviving. Teaching school. No burial date. Gravel or gall stones, aged 64 yrs. 5 mos. 11 days. Martin Koch m. Elizabeth Schanst (very plainly but probably for Schanz) on Oct 28, 1766. Michael Bosch m. Elizabeth Koch on Mar 16, 1769. Peter Koch m. Juliana Heinrich (Henry) on Dec 15, 1772. Selected Pastoral Records of John Caspar Stoever, Lebanon County 1772 Dec 15 Peter Koch and Juliana Heinrich, Lebanon. > -----Original Message----- > From: RNellans@aol.com [mailto:RNellans@aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 2:09 PM > To: PALEBANO-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [PALEBANO-L] Koch Surname > > > Hello List: > > My line is the Cook/Koch Surname. The oldest ancestor I have been able to > trace is George Cook, Sr. He was born in 1760 in the NW Corner > of Lancaster > Co. I suspect that is now Lebanon Co. > > He lived nearly his entire life in Somerset Co. --Bedford Co. > initially. I > have confirmed he was there with an LDS Film that places him and his wife > Elizabeth (Berkley dau of Ludwig) in attendance at the Baptism of > their oldest > son, John Jacob who was born in 1785. At this Baptism his > surname was shown > as Koch for the first time I've seen it officially noted with > that spelling. > The church was the Pine Hill Lutheran and Reformed Church in > Brothers Valley > Twp. of the present Somerset Co. > > I have been unable to find George's early location or his > parents. Because of > the early date, the most likely sources of finding him are Tax Assessments > (for his parents in 1750-1760) or through Church Records. George > was also a > Volunteer in the Revolutionary War through Associator Col Clatz. > He has DAR > Numbers designating him such a veteran. I however, using both > the national > and the Pennsylvania State Archives have not been able to find > him on any list > for the Revolutionary War. > > The legends of George say he was born in Lancaster Co, drifted to > Allegany Co, > Md. before settling in Southampton Twp of Somerset Co. He had two > Mills (Grist > and Lumber) in Larimer Twp. The fact is he was never in Md but > by the 15 mile > wide southern border dispute the Mason Dixon Line resolved. He > did have some > land records registered in Md, but only because of the border dispute. > > I have been reading this list for a while and most of the > discussions are very > scholarly and involve many books on early settlers to the area. > Can someone > help me find George's parents? I would even settle for evidence > of Kochs in > the area around the 1760 period of time. > > Dick Nellans > > > > > ==== PALEBANO Mailing List ==== > Found any good sites lately? We'd sure like to know about them! > >

You bet. Although it's hard tracking down my ARMS family, I did find from the census that my 2g grandfather, Augustus Arms, was a cabinet maker in Danville, PA. I later found the following in 'Danville, The Bicentennial History:' (1850-1875) "New furniture could be had from Augustus Arms, the oldest furniture dealer in Danville, who had established his business in 1840 and dealt in parlor and chamber suites, mattresses and mirrors. Arms, also an undertaker, had a large supply of coffins, caskets, shrouds and funeral articles, and two fine hearses." I haven't yet found anyone who was into weaving, however. Charlie Parks Alexandria, VA der@redrose.net wrote: > > Someone has shared with me that undertakers in the 1800s were actually > "furniture salesmen" for lack of a better word or phrase - that they would > have been carpenters or makers of furniture first and then had the > "funeral parlor" in their "store" where they made the casket. ( My husband > is a descendant of the ROHLANDs who had the ROHLAND Funeral Home.) Can > someone verify or discount this story? > > This question is two-fold. Additionally, can someone explain a weaver's > pattern book to me? I have had the incredible fortune to find a weaver's > pattern book that ended up in a University library where my husband's > cousin just happens to be a professor. Now what are the odds of that > happening?? :-) I also found an original deed for this ancestor in an > historical society, so had them copy it with his original signature, > compared the two signatures (pattern book with deed signature) and they > matched.This is my success story of the day!! :-) The occupation question > is important, however, in that it points to the correct ROHLAND immigrant. > The ROHLAND whom I suspect of being the immigrant ancestor, was a weaver, > per tax records and deeds. Was this usually passed down from father to > son in the 1700s? (mid 1700s) or did a man ever apprentice another man's > son as a weaver? > > Thanks to anyone who can answer either of my questions. > > Regards, > Donna Ristenbatt > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > der@redrose.net > Visit: ON THE TRAIL OF OUR ANCESTORS > http://www.ristenbatt.com/genealogy > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Ships' Lists, PA and Mennonite Research Corner, > Dutch Research Corner, Cemetery Lists, > Rev. War Loyalists, Finding a Civil War Ancestor, > Many Surnames and More! > > ==== PALEBANO Mailing List ==== > Thanks so much for joining the Lebanon County PA mailing list!

I am definitely interested in E-mailing with you concerning your "Lear" line. I can't E-mail directly, as I can't see your address, all my messages come in from "PALEBANO-L@rootsweb.com". You can E-mail me direct at LMPaules@Armstrong.com From: PALEBANO-L@rootsweb.com on 03/16/99 10:23 AM PST Please respond to PALEBANO-L@rootsweb.com To: PALEBANO-L@rootsweb.com cc: (bcc: Lynn M. Paules) Subject: [PALEBANO-L] ALLEN, AUSTIN, BALLENGER, BAST, AND MANY MORE! This will be my last Post. Therefore, if anyone is interested in doing any genealogy research with me, please feel free to email me directly. I will no longer subscribe to any mailing lists as I find them stressful and too overwhelming. Please read further for ALL the names in my line: ALLEN, AUSTIN, BALLENGER, BAST, BECKWITH, BELUTTY, BOREN, BOUDREAU, BROOKS, BROWNLOWE, BULL, CARDWELL, CARTER, COLLINS, COLVIN, CONNA, CRAIG, CRAWFORD OR CRAWFOOT, CREAGH, DAILEY (OR DALY, DALEY), DAVOREN, DUNN (OR DUNNE), ELLIS, GRAFFEO, GRAFFITHS, HALL, HOGAN, HURKA, JESSON (OR JESSEN), JOHNSON, JURANEK, LEAR, LEE, LIVINGSTON, MACNAMARA, MCBRIDE, MCCLURG, MCMULKINS (OR MCMULLKINS OR MCMULLENS), MORGA, MORGAN, MOYER, NEAL, NEWCOMB, PERRY, PRICE, PRIOR, RANDA, READ, REESE, REID, SALYERS, SCALIFANI, SCHWARTZ, SEAMAN, SELTZER, SHEA (OR SHAY), SMITH, STAHL, STANEK, THOMAS, VANCE, WALKER, ZEMA Thanks to all who made me feel so welcome, but I must go now. Very Truly Yours, launie graffeo

Hi all-- Does anyone know where I can find a Lebanon Co will index from 1813 to 1840 or so? Is there a written source or web site? I don't have net access but I can save the web sites address (URL) and later download from the library Thank you, Marc I am seeking parentage for these folks from PA: (Mary) Cath STEINER Batdorf (c1785-aft1830 Berks>Daup), Wm FRANTZ (c1750-1805 Daup), Saml PETERS (c1821-c1870 Daup), Jacob RUDY (c1760-? Lanc>Daup), MaryAnn SWARTZ Peters (b1820-1897 Jun't>Daup), Cath UNDERHOLD(Z) Wertz (1790-1864 N'land/Lanc), Sarah A CU ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

This will be my last Post. Therefore, if anyone is interested in doing any genealogy research with me, please feel free to email me directly. I will no longer subscribe to any mailing lists as I find them stressful and too overwhelming. Please read further for ALL the names in my line: ALLEN, AUSTIN, BALLENGER, BAST, BECKWITH, BELUTTY, BOREN, BOUDREAU, BROOKS, BROWNLOWE, BULL, CARDWELL, CARTER, COLLINS, COLVIN, CONNA, CRAIG, CRAWFORD OR CRAWFOOT, CREAGH, DAILEY (OR DALY, DALEY), DAVOREN, DUNN (OR DUNNE), ELLIS, GRAFFEO, GRAFFITHS, HALL, HOGAN, HURKA, JESSON (OR JESSEN), JOHNSON, JURANEK, LEAR, LEE, LIVINGSTON, MACNAMARA, MCBRIDE, MCCLURG, MCMULKINS (OR MCMULLKINS OR MCMULLENS), MORGA, MORGAN, MOYER, NEAL, NEWCOMB, PERRY, PRICE, PRIOR, RANDA, READ, REESE, REID, SALYERS, SCALIFANI, SCHWARTZ, SEAMAN, SELTZER, SHEA (OR SHAY), SMITH, STAHL, STANEK, THOMAS, VANCE, WALKER, ZEMA Thanks to all who made me feel so welcome, but I must go now. Very Truly Yours, launie graffeo

The question was, did cabinet makers tend also to be undertakers? The answer, I believe, is yes and over quite a long time period too. >From about 1750 to 1850, anyway this seems to have been common. I have two lines which contain joiners/cabinet makers who became undertakers. It is logical. In this time period, nothing really was done to preserve the body, the main requirement was a coffin, which would have been prepared by the area's cabinet maker. Other than that there would have been preparation of the body - cleaning and dressing and so on and the preparation of the burial site. These two tasks could have been performed by most any one. Horizontal integration as an economist would say? Back to my people - one was supposed to have conducted the first funeral at Charles Evans Cemetery in Reading. Good Hunting, Clarke

I apologize list members, but there was a person who asked a very important question in the past few days and I remember someone responding to it. I dont remember who or what list. Could someone who knows please contact this person for me and tell her what the responder originally said about "America's First Families" being a scam. Thank you for your time. Please read below: launie Subject: Re: Question? Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:45:09 -0900 From: Launie Graffeo <launie@ptialaska.net> To: RRediger <redi2@chibardun.net> References: 1 I will forward your question to all the maillists I'm subscribed to and see if the person who wrote that statement will respond again. I have no idea which one or who said it. Be patient, I will find out if I can. I don't think you have anything to worry about unless you gave them personal info. launie RRediger wrote: > Launie, > Thank you for answering my question. What exactly did you hear? I am really > afraid that I shouldn't have sent the documents. I don't know exactly what > they can do with them. Probably nothing everyone except myself is dead. > Rosa > > -----Original Message----- > From: Launie Graffeo [mailto:launie@ptialaska.net] > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 9:51 AM > To: RRediger > Cc: GenMassachusetts-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: Question? > > I had recently heard from someone on another genealogy list that "America's > First Families" was a scam. > > launie > > RRediger wrote: > > > List members, > > Please forgive me for putting this question here, but I thought maybe a > > member could help me. > > Has anyone heard of an organization called Sons & Daughters of America's > > First Families? Having a family member from the early 1600's in Mass. I > > joined. I have not heard anything yet and was wondering if sending > documents > > was the wrong thing to do. Could somebody use our ancestors documents for > a > > scam of some sort? Again I apologize for putting this our mailing list. > > Rosa

Hello List: My line is the Cook/Koch Surname. The oldest ancestor I have been able to trace is George Cook, Sr. He was born in 1760 in the NW Corner of Lancaster Co. I suspect that is now Lebanon Co. He lived nearly his entire life in Somerset Co. --Bedford Co. initially. I have confirmed he was there with an LDS Film that places him and his wife Elizabeth (Berkley dau of Ludwig) in attendance at the Baptism of their oldest son, John Jacob who was born in 1785. At this Baptism his surname was shown as Koch for the first time I've seen it officially noted with that spelling. The church was the Pine Hill Lutheran and Reformed Church in Brothers Valley Twp. of the present Somerset Co. I have been unable to find George's early location or his parents. Because of the early date, the most likely sources of finding him are Tax Assessments (for his parents in 1750-1760) or through Church Records. George was also a Volunteer in the Revolutionary War through Associator Col Clatz. He has DAR Numbers designating him such a veteran. I however, using both the national and the Pennsylvania State Archives have not been able to find him on any list for the Revolutionary War. The legends of George say he was born in Lancaster Co, drifted to Allegany Co, Md. before settling in Southampton Twp of Somerset Co. He had two Mills (Grist and Lumber) in Larimer Twp. The fact is he was never in Md but by the 15 mile wide southern border dispute the Mason Dixon Line resolved. He did have some land records registered in Md, but only because of the border dispute. I have been reading this list for a while and most of the discussions are very scholarly and involve many books on early settlers to the area. Can someone help me find George's parents? I would even settle for evidence of Kochs in the area around the 1760 period of time. Dick Nellans

At 8:39 3/16/99, der@redrose.net wrote: >Someone has shared with me that undertakers in the 1800s were actually >"furniture salesmen" for lack of a better word or phrase - that they would >have been carpenters or makers of furniture first and then had the >"funeral parlor" in their "store" where they made the casket. ( My husband >is a descendant of the ROHLANDs who had the ROHLAND Funeral Home.) Can >someone verify or discount this story? > Oh, most definitely! Being a mortician was not such a great occupation - but someone had to do it. I guess it just went one of the local cabinetmakers, since he would be making the caskets. Until perhaps the past 50 years funerals were mostly done from the homes so there was no need for a special place at the mortician's to view bodies. Often you will find the funeral director listed next to a furniture store and is under the same name. Not every furnituremaker was necessarily a mortician, though. Sorry, can't help wioth your other question. -Linnea

Interesting, Donna: My parents had tow friends who were in the furniture business and also morticians; THAT recently. This was in Ohio. Dave Ross, Denver

John Light wrote: > > Leroy - Unless you are referring to the specific Light family traditions > I reference, and if I understand your question, this is my understanding > of "family tradition" when used in genealogy: > Any story or information about the family that is passed down from > generation to generation. The tradition may have, or often does not > have, factual basis or a reliable source such as public record to back > it up. Example: for years my father told us we were descended from a > famous patriot based on what he remembered as a child. I could write a > genealogy based on that information, citing "family tradition". > However, I have disproved that ancestry (the patriot was a cousin, not > an ancestor) using actual death, burial, war and wedding records. I now > write a different genealogy with reliable, or primary sources. > Sometimes family tradition is all you have to go on, but it is based on > memory and recollection, not exactly infallible. Many written family > histories (as I am contesting) simply state information as fact without > any reference to reliable source; I suppose this too would be a form of > "family tradition", or perhaps "secondary source without factual > basis". Any one else care to take a stab? > John Light > Monterey, CA > > I found your letter very interesting. I have nothing of substance to > > add, but I was very curious about the source of what you call a family > > tradition. Can you tell us more? > > Leroy Miller > > West Hills, CA > > ==== PALEBANO Mailing List ==== > Visit Rootsweb and support our sponsor: > <http://www.rootsweb.com> John, What attracted my curiousity was the sentence, "I am trying to find the origins of what may only be family tradition that our assumed, and prolific, Lebanon Light family immigrant (1738) Johannes Licht/Light married a Maria Kreider ca late 1720s in Germany." Most oral family traditions don't extend that far back, and I wondered what method of handing down this family information was used in your family. Did you have an older relative that had memorized all this from an even older oral tradition? Could it have stemmed from some old written text, similar to the one by Moses Light? Does, or did, such a written account exist? There is some disagreement as to when the Immigrant John Light came to America and exactly who he was. I wondered if your family tradition involved this confusion about the identity and history of John the Immigrant. In my own family, for example, I remember my mother mentioning orally the names Lydia Zinn and Veronica Ellenberger as being in her grandmother's line. (The Light names, of course, all blend together and become almost indistinguishable after oral history has been transferred through a few generations, but the more unusual names---the wives they married---stand out in one's memory.) My mother was raised by her grandmother, and they both had a penchant for talking about their "Freindschaft." Later I found these names in the book by Rev. Francis and the book by Moses Light. (The latter contains errors, of course, which are easy to detect.) However, if your family tradition goes back to Maria Kreider as being the wife of the Immigrant, that is another two generations further back. The oral transmission of so much family history is remarkable but not impossible, and I wondered if you could describe how it might have occurred. Leroy

I do think that the spelling of the name was changed; however, I do not know if it was changed from Matter or Meader or Meeter or what. I just know that I cannot seen to find the parents of Elias Mader. Does anyone have any suggestion on how to proceed? Would there be an obit some where? I know he died June 29, 1872 and is buried at Kimmerlings. I though there might be a connection to the name Maderia but I learned later that Maderia was the name of a family from Portugal that converted to Protestantism moved to Holland and then to the American colonies. Thanks for any help. Helen

Daniel Reinhold wrote: > > Now that everyone is on a LIGHT kick, can anyone help with more information on > the ancestors and descendants of these LIGHTS? I have very littleinformation > except for: > > Catherine LIGHT , > | | bd. December 21, 1806, Lebanon, PA > | | dd. October 16, 1849, Womelsdorf, PA > > Sarah LIGHT ,, > | | bd. February 11, 1811, Lebanon County, PA > | | dd. January 15, 1833, Lebanon, PA > > Here is a short Descendant Report: > > John LIGHT , > bd. Lancaster County, PA > dd. Cincinnatti, OH > | Samuel LIGHT , > | bd. February 25, 1770, Near Labanon, PA > | dd. February 14, 1834 > | | Samuel LIGHT > | | Jacob LIGHT > | | bd. July 11, 1797 > | | dd. January 18, 1865 > | | Elizabeth LIGHT > | | Mary LIGHT > | | bd. August 8, 1799 > | | dd. February 3, 1840 > | | Harry LIGHT > | | bd. September 17, 1802 > | | dd. October 10, 1832 > | | Catherine LIGHT , > | | bd. December 21, 1806, Lebanon, PA > | | dd. October 16, 1849, Womelsdorf, PA > | | John LIGHT > | | bd. February 26, 1809 > | | dd. March 24, 1884 > | | Sarah LIGHT ,, > | | bd. February 11, 1811, Lebanon County, PA > | | dd. January 15, 1833, Lebanon, PA > | | Anna LIGHT > | | bd. 1813 > | | dd. 1885 > | Jacob LIGHT > > TIA > > Dan > > Daniel Gensemer REINHOLD III > Clinton Computer Consultants > RR 4 Box 45 > Mill Hall, PA 17751-9622 > Voice phone (570) 748-3201 > Internet dreinhol@cub.kcnet.org > Web pages http://cub.kcnet.org/~dreinhol/ > http://cub.kcnet.org/~millplay/ > President, Clinton County (PA) Genealogical Society > Genealogical Surname Searching: > REINHOLD, Lancaster County. PA, 1752 - now > also variants REINOEL, REINHOLT, REINHOLDT, REINWALD > AMWEG, WENGER, WALTER, GENSEMER, Lancaster County, PA, 1700s > MUSSER, GLISSEN, - SE PA. 1840 - now > MACK, MOCK,- NE PA, 1880 - now > Shake any family tree and a few nuts will fall. > > ==== PALEBANO Mailing List ==== > A great on-line resource; the Lebanon County PA GenWeb Page: > <http://www.chm.davidson.edu/PAGenWeb/> Do you have access to the book "History and Genealogy of Early Pioneer Families of Lebanon County, PA" by Rev. J. G. Francis and edited by Betty M. Light Behr? The family you are interested in is given on p. 509. There are some differences: the woman you call Mary is listed as Polly, and Sarah is called Sallie. There are also some differences in dates, some of which you have but the book doesn't have. This book can help you with the ancestors and descendants. Leroy Miller

With all this mention of the "Light" family, it reminded me of my last landlady (1997). Her name is Linda Light and she lives in Lebanon, PA. Was never married, Light is her maiden name. I might be able to pass some of this info over to her <grin>.. She owned a property on Jay Street (near the Lake) and I rented an apartment from her. Really nice person but knew how to squeeze the stuffings out of the buffalo on that nickle.... Mary GLOD Hervey ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ mhervey@micronet.net genmail@micronet.net Visit my genealogy page: http://genweb.net/~rayglod Mary's BorderWorld: http://members.xoom.com/mhervey RESEARCHING: RAY, ABSON, WORSHAM, PHARRIS, GUNNELLS, PARTON, CATLETT, WEBB (TN); GLOD, ZOMBALLUS (PA); RAMSEY (KY) ~~~~~~~~~~~ Volunteer of Random Acts of Genealogical Kindness at http://www.rootsweb.com/~tnraogk/index.htm (Lebanon, PA area) ~~~~~~~~~~~ I'm not stuck, I'm ancestrally challenged...After 30 days, all wealthy & unclaimed ancestors will be adopted...... -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Reinhold <dreinhol@cub.kcnet.org> To: PALEBANO-L@rootsweb.com <PALEBANO-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 4:42 PM Subject: [PALEBANO-L] LIGHTS |Now that everyone is on a LIGHT kick, can anyone help with more information on |the ancestors and descendants of these LIGHTS? I have very littleinformation |except for: | |Catherine LIGHT , || | bd. December 21, 1806, Lebanon, PA || | dd. October 16, 1849, Womelsdorf, PA | |Sarah LIGHT ,, || | bd. February 11, 1811, Lebanon County, PA || | dd. January 15, 1833, Lebanon, PA | |Here is a short Descendant Report: | |John LIGHT , | bd. Lancaster County, PA | dd. Cincinnatti, OH || Samuel LIGHT , || bd. February 25, 1770, Near Labanon, PA || dd. February 14, 1834 || | Samuel LIGHT || | Jacob LIGHT || | bd. July 11, 1797 || | dd. January 18, 1865 || | Elizabeth LIGHT || | Mary LIGHT || | bd. August 8, 1799 || | dd. February 3, 1840 || | Harry LIGHT || | bd. September 17, 1802 || | dd. October 10, 1832 || | Catherine LIGHT , || | bd. December 21, 1806, Lebanon, PA || | dd. October 16, 1849, Womelsdorf, PA || | John LIGHT || | bd. February 26, 1809 || | dd. March 24, 1884 || | Sarah LIGHT ,, || | bd. February 11, 1811, Lebanon County, PA || | dd. January 15, 1833, Lebanon, PA || | Anna LIGHT || | bd. 1813 || | dd. 1885 || Jacob LIGHT | |TIA | | | |Dan | |Daniel Gensemer REINHOLD III |Clinton Computer Consultants |RR 4 Box 45 |Mill Hall, PA 17751-9622 |Voice phone (570) 748-3201 |Internet dreinhol@cub.kcnet.org |Web pages http://cub.kcnet.org/~dreinhol/ | http://cub.kcnet.org/~millplay/ |President, Clinton County (PA) Genealogical Society |Genealogical Surname Searching: |REINHOLD, Lancaster County. PA, 1752 - now |also variants REINOEL, REINHOLT, REINHOLDT, REINWALD |AMWEG, WENGER, WALTER, GENSEMER, Lancaster County, PA, 1700s |MUSSER, GLISSEN, - SE PA. 1840 - now |MACK, MOCK,- NE PA, 1880 - now |Shake any family tree and a few nuts will fall. | | |==== PALEBANO Mailing List ==== |A great on-line resource; the Lebanon County PA GenWeb Page: |<http://www.chm.davidson.edu/PAGenWeb/> |