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    1. [PALATINE] Re: PALATINE Digest, Vol 14, Issue 2
    2. Michael Helmantoler
    3. Check out FamilySearch | | | | FamilySearch | | | On Sunday, August 18, 2019, 02:09:19 AM MDT, palatine-request@rootsweb.com <palatine-request@rootsweb.com> wrote: Send PALATINE mailing list submissions to palatine@rootsweb.com To subscribe via email send a message with subject subscribe and body subscribe to palatine-request@rootsweb.com To unsubscribe via email send a message with subject unsubscribe and body unsubscribe to palatine-request@rootsweb.com You can reach the person managing the list at palatine-owner@rootsweb.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of PALATINE digest..." Today's Topics:   1. Re: Thoenges Christ/Crist/Krist info (Dana) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2019 23:15:26 -0400 From: Dana <dirt2design@gmail.com> Subject: [PALATINE] Re: Thoenges Christ/Crist/Krist info To: palatine@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <AEDAA7DF-B63A-49CD-BEEF-8F690652928C@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain;      charset=us-ascii Hi Dave,  Thanks for reaching out.  I will be home on Monday afternoon, New York time.  I will forward you some info then. By best, Dana Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 14, 2019, at 1:55 PM, Crist, David K <david.k.crist@lmco.com> wrote: > > Hello, > > My name is David Crist and I have great info passed to me by folks I've met on ancestry.com.  I believe my family roots go back to late 1600s early 1700s to Rengsdorf, Germany where Thoenges Christ lived.  I believe he had a son named Johannes Martinus Christ who came to America in the early 1700s.  I may be in the Rengsdorf area in the next couple of years and I'm looking for advice on how to find more info in Germany about my family, or if anybody else has info. > > Thanks much for any help. > > > Dave > > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/palatine@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer To contact the %(real_name)s list administrator, send an email to %(real_name)s-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the PALATINE mailing list -- palatine@rootsweb.com, send an email to %(real_name)s@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to %(real_name)s-request@%(host_name)s with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. ------------------------------ End of PALATINE Digest, Vol 14, Issue 2 ***************************************

    08/25/2019 07:07:50
    1. [PALATINE] Re: Thoenges Christ/Crist/Krist info
    2. Dana
    3. Hi Dave, Thanks for reaching out. I will be home on Monday afternoon, New York time. I will forward you some info then. By best, Dana Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 14, 2019, at 1:55 PM, Crist, David K <david.k.crist@lmco.com> wrote: > > Hello, > > My name is David Crist and I have great info passed to me by folks I've met on ancestry.com. I believe my family roots go back to late 1600s early 1700s to Rengsdorf, Germany where Thoenges Christ lived. I believe he had a son named Johannes Martinus Christ who came to America in the early 1700s. I may be in the Rengsdorf area in the next couple of years and I'm looking for advice on how to find more info in Germany about my family, or if anybody else has info. > > Thanks much for any help. > > > Dave > > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/palatine@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

    08/17/2019 09:15:26
    1. [PALATINE] Stamm news
    2. Donald Stamm
    3. Notifications for new relating to Stamm family.

    08/15/2019 08:07:56
    1. [PALATINE] Re: Thoenges Christ/Crist/Krist info
    2. Julianne Love
    3. Hello David and all, Lucky you, David to be planning a trip to Germany. I, too, would like to go before I'm too old. I want to travel to the Neckar River region between Heidelberg and Heilbronn to find my roots containing Edelmanns, Schwinns, Schmidts, and others, and see the countryside where they lived for generations before coming to Pennsylvania. So happy to have these brave people for ancestors. Julianne -----Original Message----- From: Crist, David K [mailto:david.k.crist@lmco.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 12:56 PM To: palatine@rootsweb.com Subject: [PALATINE] Thoenges Christ/Crist/Krist info Hello, My name is David Crist and I have great info passed to me by folks I've met on ancestry.com. I believe my family roots go back to late 1600s early 1700s to Rengsdorf, Germany where Thoenges Christ lived. I believe he had a son named Johannes Martinus Christ who came to America in the early 1700s. I may be in the Rengsdorf area in the next couple of years and I'm looking for advice on how to find more info in Germany about my family, or if anybody else has info. Thanks much for any help. Dave _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/palatine@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

    08/15/2019 05:51:34
    1. [PALATINE] Thoenges Christ/Crist/Krist info
    2. Crist, David K
    3. Hello, My name is David Crist and I have great info passed to me by folks I've met on ancestry.com. I believe my family roots go back to late 1600s early 1700s to Rengsdorf, Germany where Thoenges Christ lived. I believe he had a son named Johannes Martinus Christ who came to America in the early 1700s. I may be in the Rengsdorf area in the next couple of years and I'm looking for advice on how to find more info in Germany about my family, or if anybody else has info. Thanks much for any help. Dave

    08/14/2019 11:55:41
    1. [PALATINE] *Palatine History of the Bahl Family in the Palatines* pt. 2
    2. James Shuman
    3. The society was a highly bimodal with the nobility and the peasantry. There was no such thing as “Middle Class”. The peasants centered their lives in the village, where they helped manage community resources and monitor community life. In most of Germany, farming was handled by peasant tenant farmers who paid rents and obligatory services to the landlord, who was typically a nobleman. Peasant leaders supervised the fields and ditches and grazing rights, maintained public order and morals, and supported a village court which handled minor offenses. Inside the family, the patriarch made all the decisions, and tried to arrange advantageous marriages for his children. Much of the villages' communal life centered around church services and holy days. However, towards the end of the 17th century and into the 18th, the wealthy region was repeatedly invaded by French troops, which resulted in continuous military requisitions, widespread devastation and famine. The genealogical record from Hans Bahl to the Johannes Ball family who emigrated in 1710 is solid but there is very little specific family information for these families. One recoded item for Johan Valentine Bahl *(*born on 16 Jul 1625) and his wife Margaretha Heintz (born circa 1653) was that during a five week outbreak of pestilence (possibility Bubonic plague), in 1666, Johan Valentin and Margaretha Bahl lost six of their children! This travesty further supports the difficult living conditions that our ancestors experienced. Although we don’t have personal histories or stories, we can assume the Bahl families were poor, very religious and hungry. Germans had trickled into North American colonies since their earliest days. However, the first mass migration began in 1708. Several reasons have been given to explain why so many families left their homes for an unknown land. Knittle summarizes them: “(1) war devastation, (2) heavy taxation, (3) an extraordinarily severe winter, (4) religious quarrels, but not persecutions, (5) land hunger on the part of the elderly and desire for adventure on the part of the young, (6) liberal advertising by colonial proprietors, and finally (7) the benevolent and active cooperation of the British government.” This last item led to the great Palatine Migration of 1710. Queen Anne's English government had sympathy for the Protestant Germans and had invited them to go to the colonies and work in trade for passage. Official correspondence in British records shows a total of 13,146 “Poor Palatine Refugees” traveled down the Rhine and from Amsterdam to England in the summer of 1709 largely at the encouragement of the British Government whose intent was to resettle them in the colony of New York for the purpose of producing naval stores. As they were victims of Britain’s enemy (France), these German-speaking Protestants were at first welcomed in London, and in 1709 the government issued sixteen hundred tents for Palatine encampments in Blackheath and elsewhere. The flood of immigration, however, overwhelmed English resources. It resulted in major disruptions, overcrowding, famine, disease and the death of a thousand or more Palatines. It appeared the entire Palatinate would be emptied before a halt could be called to emigration. While some of the Palatines settled in England, nearly 3,000 were subsequently transported to New York in ten ships that finally left England in April of 1710 with newly appointed royal governor, Robert Hunter. The voyages lasted several months and nearly 500 of those transported died aboard ship as a result of poor food and sanitary conditions. One of the deaths at sea was Johannes Ball, my 6th great grandfather. Death particularly struck the small children, a large number of whom died on the voyage. Many of them first were assigned to work camps along the Hudson River to work off their passage. Johannes son, John Peter Ball and his family were included in this relocation. The first ship to arrive in New York was the Lyon which landed 13 Jun 1710. The last ship did not arrive until 2 Aug 1710. Most of those who arrived in New York were put into camps on what is now called Governor's Island due to typhus on board. They remained until the government could find suitable land on which they could settle for the intended purpose of making naval stores. In return for passage to New York and maintenance, the Germans were to produce tar, turpentine, and ship’s masts. When the debt was repaid, each family would receive forty acres of land free from taxes or quit rents for seven years, in October 1710, a tract of land some 90 miles north of New York City was selected and the Germans were moved to that tract which was called Livingston Manor. As it turned out, the project to settle the Germans for the purpose of manufacturing naval stores failed for a number of reasons so that in September 1712 those remaining on the Livingston Manor were left to fend for themselves. Some remained in upstate New York including our Ball ancestors. Along with other Palatine immigrants, Anna Catherina (Ballin) Ball and her three children (Anna Maria Ottila, Frederich and (John) Peter) were taken to West Camp on the Hudson River. Her husband, Johannes Ball, had died at sea during emigration along with nearly 450 other Palatinates. Anna Catherina Ballin is listed on the “New York Subsistence List” compiled from the "journal" of Palatine debtors to the British Government for subsistence given either in NYC or the Hudson River settlements from their landing in 1710 to September 1712. This list was found in the Public Record Office, C.O. 5/1230 and was corrected from the accompanying "ledger" C.O. 5/1231. We assume the name Ballin was perhaps a translation error for Bahl (Ball) or it may be that since her husband had died. The book, “The Promised Land” by John J. Vrooman provides an historical fiction account of the Palatine emigration from their Rhineland homes to the Hudson and Schoharie Valleys . It provides a vivd account of what these people encountered in Germany, England, and New York, on their journey to the colonies and the crossings. The name was changed to Ball and the offspring were very involved in the Revolutionary War and settled in several areas of New York. Anyone desiring more details on the Ball lineage is welcome to contact me, Richard Crowell at rtc19147@gmail.com. James Shuman, list manager jshuman@telis.org

    05/29/2018 11:43:40
    1. [PALATINE] *Palatine History of the Bahl Family in the Palatines* pt. 1
    2. James Shuman
    3. The following was posted by Richard Crowell at rtc19147@gmail.com. It is being re-posted in two sections because of length. JS My maternal grandmother’s maiden name was Grace Ball and her father was Melvin Ball. The Ball lineage has been traced back twelve generations from me to Hans Bahl born about 1595 in Mauchenheim, Germany which is in the Palatinate region of Bavaria (a German State). Henry Z. Jones stated in the “Palatine Families of New York 1710”, that Hans was from an area along the Rhine River, roughly where the modern state of Rhineland-Phaltz is located. The ancestral village of Hans Bahl, the earliest known Bahl ancestor to our line, was Mauchenheim, 4 kilometers southwest of the community of Alzey, Pfaltz. Church records show that Hans Bahl was a Gemeinsmann (Parishioner) in 1628 in the village, and an Altester (Elder) in 1654. The church in this region was most likely a Calvinist or Lutheran Reformed Church. The title “Elder” in the Reformed Church is the highest ranking position in the local church. With this limited knowledge, I embarked on a vigorous study of German and Palatine history by scanning many hundreds of pages. Three later generations of Bahls were born and lived in Mauchenheim between 1634 and 1710 when the Bahls (Balls) emigrated to the Schoharie, NY area as part of the Palatine German relocation program. There is little specific information on these families beyond dates for births, marriages and deaths. However, exploring the social culture and political environment in this region where the Bahl ancestors lived from 1595 to 1710 will provide an understanding of the conditions under which my ancestors lived prior to emigrating to the New Colonies. Mauchenheim, the municipality where Hans Bahl lived is in the Palatinate region of Bavaria. This was an historical territory of the Holy Roman Empire. This fragmented territory stretched from the left bank of the Upper Rhine and the adjacent parts of the French region of Alsace to the opposite territory on the east bank of the Rhine. Originally (from the 1200s) this region was administered by a Count Palatine (a noble lord who could exercise powers normally reserved to the monarchs). The Count held the office of Imperial vicar in the territories and ranked among the most significant secular Princes the Holy Roman Empire. The Palatinate remained Roman Catholic during the early Reformation but adopted Calvinism in the 1560s under Elector Frederick III, a staunch Calvinist. The Palatinate became one of the major centers of Calvinism in Europe. and the Palatinate became the bulwark of the Protestant cause in Germany. Elector Frederick IV became the head of the Protestant military alliance known as the Protestant Union in 1608. His son Frederick V’s acceptance of the Bohemian crown in 1619 contributed to the beginning of the Thirty Years’ War, a war that proved disastrous to the Palatinate. Catholic troops devastated the Palatinate Rhine Region. The Palatinate climax and decline is marked by the rule of Elector Palatine Frederick V, whose coronation as King of Bohemia in 1619 sparked the Thirty Years' War. The Thirty Years War was an outgrowth of the Protestant Reformation in the 1500s. There was a tendency of the European monarchs to line up on one side or another on the issue of the Protestant Reformation; usually for political more than religious reasons. The issue reached its height in the 1600s with the wars of religion between Protestants and Catholics and the various European kings and kingdoms and was called the "30 Year's War" of 1618-1648. These wars caught all of Europe in massive devastation. In Germany, for instance, huge portions of the population were wiped out by war, disease, and depredations of the wandering mercenary soldiers. People were put to the rack (a medieval torture device) and stake--tortured and killed for their faith. We have no record if and how the Bahl family directly participated in the war but we can certainly assume they were adversely impacted even if not direct participants. The Thirty Years War culminated in the 1648 with Treaty of Westphalia. Following the Treaty, the Protestant line of succession in the Palatinate resumed. Charles I Louis (ruled1649-1679) and spent his reign replenishing his territories. In 1688, the already ravaged lands were further afflicted with the reunion campaigns launched by King Louis XIV of France, culminating in the Nine Years' War (1688–97). Throughout the Nine Years War (1688–1697) and the War of Spanish Succession (1701–1714), recurrent invasions by the French Army devastated the area of what is today Southwest Germany where the Bahls resided. The attacks and plundering by the French Army and the destruction of numerous cities (especially within the Palatinate) created economic hardship for the inhabitants of the region, which was exacerbated by a rash of harsh winters and poor harvests that created famine in Germany and much of northwest Europe. In addition to the continuous wars, there was a major climate issue. During the 17th century, longer winters and cooler summers disrupted growing seasons and destroyed harvests across Europe. It was the coldest century in a period of glacial expansion from the early 14th century until the mid-19th century. The unusual cold that lasted from the 1620s until the 1690s included ice on both the Bosporus and the Baltic Seas so thick that people could walk from one side to the other… The fatal synergy between human and natural disasters eradicated perhaps one-third of the human population. In summary, the years 1559-1742 in the Palatinate saw the official religion change five times, bringing insecurity and often confiscation of property, imprisonment, and death. In the same six generations, the Palatine lands experienced three wars and seven campaigns with devastating effect on towns and villages. An American parallel would be to have our Civil War, which lasted four years and killed 750,000 people, repeated 40 times. That the “poor Palatines” had the spirit and determination to plan a life in a new land was an act of courage. “Palatines”—Brave Palatines! (Why Germans Came to Pennsylvania posted by Susan Bockius on West Mt. Airy: Yesterday and Today website) James Shuman jshuman@telis.org

    05/29/2018 11:37:59
    1. [PALATINE] Re: Poenradt, AKA Penrod Line
    2. Margie Bernard
    3. This link gives an historical overview of The Palatinate: https://www.olivetreegenealogy.com/palatines/palatine-history.shtml My Palatine ancestors are Johannes J. Poenradt, Sr. and his wife Gertrude Delbert. They, with their ten-year-old son, Johannes J. Poenradt, Jr., were among the 3,000 transported by Queen Anne to New York in 1710. They eventually owned acreage on both sides of the Mohawk River. Their son moved to the border area of Pennsylvania & Maryland--Bedford, later Somerset County, Pennsylvania. Johannes Jr. and his wife (her name is unknown) had several children one of whom was John Benrath Penrod, born in Fredrick County, Maryland in 1726. Margie Bernard margiebernard@gmail.com --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

    05/28/2018 02:32:24
    1. [PALATINE] Re: Held for Review
    2. James Shuman
    3. Thanks, John. I can locate my ancestor in Fayette Co, PA in the late 1700s, where he shows up on the tax rolls during the 1780s and the census of 1790. My problem is that he already had shed some of his German heritage (although his first few children were christened in the Jacobs Lutheran church in Georges Twp. He spoke English, always used the English version of his name, was married to an English-speaking woman, and his two brothers were likewise settled in to the American way of life. They all moved to Monongalia Co, VA (now WV) shortly after the year 1800, still living near each other. It is probably his father who was the immigrant., and because we know so little, we seem to be stuck wondering which of the 20-some possible Shuman (any spelling) immigrants who came through Philadelphia from 1732 to 1749 might possibly fit as “our” ancestor. Several of us who are descendants of these three brothers have done some DNA testing, and while the evidence is clear that we are closely related, it is also clear that we are not at all closely related to any of the other Shuman (any spelling) men from the early immigration period. So, I keep watching and waiting, and telling my grandsons that there will be plenty of research left for them! James Shuman jshuman@telis.org > On May 27, 2018, at 11:57 PM, John DeBolt <jdebolt2@mindspring.com> wrote: > > James, my ancestor Hans Michael Diebolt arrived 1739 to Philadelphia and settled in Germantown (near Philly). He and others went to Cumberland MD then on to Greene Co. PA. You might look at Greene and Fayette Co for your ancestor. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 17, 2018, at 5:36 PM, James Shuman <jshuman@telis.org> wrote: >> >> Colleagues, >> >> If your message to this list doesn’t “come through” within a few minutes after you send it, what should you do? For most of us, the impulse is to send it again. Generally, that doesn’t help. >> >> Instead, what has probably happened is that the routers have detected an attachment, which RootsWeb doesn’t allow. ‘Doesn’t allow' means you can’t share any kind of file, no matter how “safe” it may be. ALL attachments are verboten! >> >> If you still can’t figure it out, please be patient. I try to visit my Palatine folder at least once a day, to see what might need my attention. Generally, things are running along in good shape. But sometimes, one or more messages are being Held for Review. That means that all the sophisticated automatic devices can’t decide what to do with a message or two — or more, and they are waiting for me to take a look. >> >> One of the most common reasons for being held is Not a Subscriber. That means the e-mail address which sent the message is not subscribed to the Palatine list. That’s a Real Good Thing when the message is an ad or a piece of spam (or worse), which means I simply delete it and you never have to see it. But it’s not so good when you know you’re a subscriber but the Ancestry computer won’t accept your message as valid. In those cases, I try to compare the address on the Held Message with those e-mails already subscribed to see if I can figure out what’s got things in a jam. That can take time. >> >> So, it’s important to be sure you are responding to a message from this List with the Identical Address as the one with which you are receiving messages from the list. If they are even a tiny bit different, they will be held for me to take a look at. >> >> You may have noticed that a little while ago I forwarded to the list a few messages that had gotten stuck in this Oh-So-Precise system. I could have just OK’d a couple whom the computer thought were not subscribed, but the others had an attachment, which means I would have to send a message back to the author, requesting that they remove the attachment, and sometimes there are a couple rounds of e-mails back and forth between us before we get things working again. Since most of them were already 24 hours old, or more, I just took this easier route (and deleted all the unnecessary quoting in some of them). >> >> Thanks for your understanding on these issues, and let’s keep sharing our questions, our brick walls, and what we’d really like to know. >> >> As for me, I can’t even locate my surname ancestors in the Palatine area, though I’ve tried for 30 years! I’m still stuck “near Philadelphia, 1749." >> >> >> James Shuman, list manager >> jshuman@telis.org >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >> >> Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/palatine@rootsweb.com/ >> >> Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/palatine@rootsweb.com/ >> >> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >> >> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/palatine@rootsweb.com/ > > Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/palatine@rootsweb.com/ > > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

    05/28/2018 01:15:35
    1. [PALATINE] Re: Held for Review
    2. John DeBolt
    3. James, my ancestor Hans Michael Diebolt arrived 1739 to Philadelphia and settled in Germantown (near Philly). He and others went to Cumberland MD then on to Greene Co. PA. You might look at Greene and Fayette Co for your ancestor. Sent from my iPhone > On May 17, 2018, at 5:36 PM, James Shuman <jshuman@telis.org> wrote: > > Colleagues, > > If your message to this list doesn’t “come through” within a few minutes after you send it, what should you do? For most of us, the impulse is to send it again. Generally, that doesn’t help. > > Instead, what has probably happened is that the routers have detected an attachment, which RootsWeb doesn’t allow. ‘Doesn’t allow' means you can’t share any kind of file, no matter how “safe” it may be. ALL attachments are verboten! > > If you still can’t figure it out, please be patient. I try to visit my Palatine folder at least once a day, to see what might need my attention. Generally, things are running along in good shape. But sometimes, one or more messages are being Held for Review. That means that all the sophisticated automatic devices can’t decide what to do with a message or two — or more, and they are waiting for me to take a look. > > One of the most common reasons for being held is Not a Subscriber. That means the e-mail address which sent the message is not subscribed to the Palatine list. That’s a Real Good Thing when the message is an ad or a piece of spam (or worse), which means I simply delete it and you never have to see it. But it’s not so good when you know you’re a subscriber but the Ancestry computer won’t accept your message as valid. In those cases, I try to compare the address on the Held Message with those e-mails already subscribed to see if I can figure out what’s got things in a jam. That can take time. > > So, it’s important to be sure you are responding to a message from this List with the Identical Address as the one with which you are receiving messages from the list. If they are even a tiny bit different, they will be held for me to take a look at. > > You may have noticed that a little while ago I forwarded to the list a few messages that had gotten stuck in this Oh-So-Precise system. I could have just OK’d a couple whom the computer thought were not subscribed, but the others had an attachment, which means I would have to send a message back to the author, requesting that they remove the attachment, and sometimes there are a couple rounds of e-mails back and forth between us before we get things working again. Since most of them were already 24 hours old, or more, I just took this easier route (and deleted all the unnecessary quoting in some of them). > > Thanks for your understanding on these issues, and let’s keep sharing our questions, our brick walls, and what we’d really like to know. > > As for me, I can’t even locate my surname ancestors in the Palatine area, though I’ve tried for 30 years! I’m still stuck “near Philadelphia, 1749." > > > James Shuman, list manager > jshuman@telis.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/palatine@rootsweb.com/ > > Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/palatine@rootsweb.com/ > > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

    05/28/2018 12:57:36
    1. [PALATINE] Re: Pflüger Line
    2. Noni Morrison
    3. Ahhh, so he thinks they might not be German? It seems to me that their names are pretty much the same as my other German Palatinate ancestors...sure would be fun to solve this mystery! ON another line I have a lot of folk from Northeast Scotland who went or were sent to Ireland, where they were involved in the linen manufacturing, then tailoring, then immigrated and settled in about that same area of PA as the Mann and Butz families.. I think the last name of that family was Glenn... Noni On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 10:53 AM, Mary Lee Mann via PALATINE < palatine@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Noni- > > My brother-in-law thinks he has traced his Mann's back to north east > Scotland and then to Ireland before landing in Philadelphia. Not sure of > the dates. Don't think he has ever found any German/Palatine connection > but I will mention it to him. He's still searching and this might give him > another avenue. > > Mary Lee > > In a message dated 5/17/2018 4:44:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, > lilymolady@gmail.com writes: > > Mary Lee Mann...I have a Great grandmother with the surname of Mann and we > have not been able to follow her history back much farther. Do you know > much about your Mann relatives? I recently learned about the Irish > emigration of some from the Palatinate and now suspect that my "Irish" > relatives were really some of these German families, who stayed a while in > Ireland then came on over to Pennsylvania. They all seemed to have > intermarried with the other German relatives in Pennsylvania. > > Noni Morrison > > On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 1:39 PM, Noni Morrison <lilymolady@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > So many who came on the Samuel! I believe some of my ancestors did also > > but too busy right now to look them up. I have family from the Palatinate > > on both sides of my family...My father's family name was Butts, > > originally Butz, from Butzbach. My mother's family were Lails, originally > > Lohls. And of course they all intermarried with other German, Swiss, or > > Irish families. THe Butz/Butts ancestors were mostly farmers, some of > them > > quite successful. The Lails went into Kentucky and brewed up some of the > > first Bourbon....a fact my mother did not want to talk about or even > know... > > > > > > On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 11:30 AM, Mary Lee Mann via PALATINE < > > palatine@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > > >> Melanie- > >> > >> This has to come under the category or "small world after all." My > >> palatinate ancestors were Johann Ludwig Gutbrodt and his wife Barbara > >> Christina Gutbrodt who arrived in Philadelphia on the 16th of August > 1731 > >> also aboard the ship "Samuel" from Rotterdam. There were 39 men, 16 boys > >> under sixteen, 33 women and 21 girls under 16 on board, which could have > >> included your Hans Georg Pfluger. > >> Both Gutbrodts were born in Nordheim, a village north of Stuttgart. She > >> was born a Schickner or Schuckner. Gutbrodt Luthern Church birth and > >> baptism records have been found back to 1604 in Nordheim. > >> Before Johann Ludwig died in January, 1776 in York Co. PA, his will > >> dated March 21, 1770 states he is "Loudawick Goodbred." > >> One son, about 6 years old who was on the "Samuel" with them, Philippus > >> Gutbrodt, became known as Phillip Goodbread. He's my ancestor and the > one > >> who grew up and lived in Chester, Lancaster and/or York Counties PA. By > >> 1768 he had moved his family to Tryon Co. NC. He and his sons fought in > >> the American Revolution. Around 1781 his oldest son, Phillip, Jr. > switched > >> sides voluntarily or was captured, depending on whose story you believe, > >> became a Loyalist and after being accused of treason, headed south to > >> British East Florida near Jacksonville. After the war, when Britain > >> returned Florida to Spain, this hardcore Luthern/Palatine and his > Florida > >> born wife left Roman Catholic Spanish Florida and moved to Cumberland > >> Island off the Georgia coast. As an old man in C1836, he returned to > >> Florida with 2 of his sons who developed plantations on the Suwanee > River > >> in north Florida and several generations later my mother was born in > >> Chester, FL, just west of Fernandina, FL where I was born. > >> > >> If you've got any Gutbrodts/Goodbreads in your family tree, we're > >> probably related and I'd love to learn anything you know about them in > >> Germany. > >> > >> Mary Lee Mann > >> > >> > >> > >> In a message dated 5/16/2018 10:34:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, > >> mdcrain@mac.com writes: > >> > >> > >> > >> Guten Tag, > >> > >> My German line immigrated in 1731 on the Ship Samuel. Hans Georg Pflüger > >> was probably born in Wiernsheim, today a bedroom community to Pforzheim > >> both in Baden-Wurttemberg. Hans Georg came into Philadelphia and soon > after > >> settled in today’s York County. He came with wife (Eve) and two young > >> females: Christine, a daughter, and Maria Barbara, likely his sister. > >> Because the immigrant Hans Georg died in 1754 about the age of 50, I > have > >> often wondered if he was a victim of the French and Indian War. I would > >> like to hear from anyone whose immigrant might have had a similar > >> experience in colonial America. I am also looking for others who came > from > >> Wiernsheim. Germans naturally tended to settle together so in the > future I > >> will give a brief description of more German family lines of mine. > >> > >> Tschüss, > >> > >> Melanie Crain > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Melanie Crain > >> NC Chapter President > >> 3425 Cambridge Rd > >> Durham, NC 27707 > >> (919) 489-8525 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> _______________________________________________ Email preferences: > >> http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestr > >> y.com/postorius/lists/palatine@rootsweb.com/ Archives: > >> https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/palatine > >> @rootsweb.com/ Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and > >> Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 RootsWeb is funded and supported > >> by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > >> > >> Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/ > palatine > >> @rootsweb.com/ > >> > >> Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/palatine > >> @rootsweb.com/ > >> > >> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > >> https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > >> > >> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > >> community > >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ Email preferences: > http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb. > ancestry.com/postorius/lists/palatine@rootsweb.com/ Archives: > https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/palatine@rootsweb.com/ > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 RootsWeb is funded and supported by > Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/ > palatine@rootsweb.com/ > > Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/ > palatine@rootsweb.com/ > > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community >

    05/26/2018 05:17:56
    1. [PALATINE] Re: Pflüger Line
    2. Mary Lee Mann
    3. Noni-   My brother-in-law thinks he has traced his Mann's back to north east Scotland and then to Ireland before landing in Philadelphia.  Not sure of the dates.  Don't think he has ever found any German/Palatine connection but I will mention it to him.  He's still searching and this might give him another avenue.   Mary Lee   In a message dated 5/17/2018 4:44:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, lilymolady@gmail.com writes:   Mary Lee Mann...I have a Great grandmother with the surname of Mann and we have not been able to follow her history back much farther. Do you know much about your Mann relatives? I recently learned about the Irish emigration of some from the Palatinate and now suspect that my "Irish" relatives were really some of these German families, who stayed a while in Ireland then came on over to Pennsylvania. They all seemed to have intermarried with the other German relatives in Pennsylvania. Noni Morrison On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 1:39 PM, Noni Morrison <lilymolady@gmail.com> wrote: > So many who came on the Samuel! I believe some of my ancestors did also > but too busy right now to look them up. I have family from the Palatinate > on both sides of my family...My father's family name was Butts, > originally Butz, from Butzbach. My mother's family were Lails, originally > Lohls. And of course they all intermarried with other German, Swiss, or > Irish families. THe Butz/Butts ancestors were mostly farmers, some of them > quite successful. The Lails went into Kentucky and brewed up some of the > first Bourbon....a fact my mother did not want to talk about or even know... > > > On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 11:30 AM, Mary Lee Mann via PALATINE < > palatine@rootsweb.com> wrote: > >> Melanie- >> >> This has to come under the category or "small world after all." My >> palatinate ancestors were Johann Ludwig Gutbrodt and his wife Barbara >> Christina Gutbrodt who arrived in Philadelphia on the 16th of August 1731 >> also aboard the ship "Samuel" from Rotterdam. There were 39 men, 16 boys >> under sixteen, 33 women and 21 girls under 16 on board, which could have >> included your Hans Georg Pfluger. >> Both Gutbrodts were born in Nordheim, a village north of Stuttgart. She >> was born a Schickner or Schuckner. Gutbrodt Luthern Church birth and >> baptism records have been found back to 1604 in Nordheim. >> Before Johann Ludwig died in January, 1776 in York Co. PA, his will >> dated March 21, 1770 states he is "Loudawick Goodbred." >> One son, about 6 years old who was on the "Samuel" with them, Philippus >> Gutbrodt, became known as Phillip Goodbread. He's my ancestor and the one >> who grew up and lived in Chester, Lancaster and/or York Counties PA. By >> 1768 he had moved his family to Tryon Co. NC. He and his sons fought in >> the American Revolution. Around 1781 his oldest son, Phillip, Jr. switched >> sides voluntarily or was captured, depending on whose story you believe, >> became a Loyalist and after being accused of treason, headed south to >> British East Florida near Jacksonville. After the war, when Britain >> returned Florida to Spain, this hardcore Luthern/Palatine and his Florida >> born wife left Roman Catholic Spanish Florida and moved to Cumberland >> Island off the Georgia coast. As an old man in C1836, he returned to >> Florida with 2 of his sons who developed plantations on the Suwanee River >> in north Florida and several generations later my mother was born in >> Chester, FL, just west of Fernandina, FL where I was born. >> >> If you've got any Gutbrodts/Goodbreads in your family tree, we're >> probably related and I'd love to learn anything you know about them in >> Germany. >> >> Mary Lee Mann >> >> >> >> In a message dated 5/16/2018 10:34:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, >> mdcrain@mac.com writes: >> >> >> >> Guten Tag, >> >> My German line immigrated in 1731 on the Ship Samuel. Hans Georg Pflüger >> was probably born in Wiernsheim, today a bedroom community to Pforzheim >> both in Baden-Wurttemberg. Hans Georg came into Philadelphia and soon after >> settled in today’s York County. He came with wife (Eve) and two young >> females: Christine, a daughter, and Maria Barbara, likely his sister. >> Because the immigrant Hans Georg died in 1754 about the age of 50, I have >> often wondered if he was a victim of the French and Indian War. I would >> like to hear from anyone whose immigrant might have had a similar >> experience in colonial America. I am also looking for others who came from >> Wiernsheim. Germans naturally tended to settle together so in the future I >> will give a brief description of more German family lines of mine. >> >> Tschüss, >> >> Melanie Crain >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Melanie Crain >> NC Chapter President >> 3425 Cambridge Rd >> Durham, NC 27707 >> (919) 489-8525 >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> _______________________________________________ Email preferences: >> http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestr >> y.com/postorius/lists/palatine@rootsweb.com/ Archives: >> https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/palatine >> @rootsweb.com/ Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and >> Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 RootsWeb is funded and supported >> by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >> >> Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/palatine >> @rootsweb.com/ >> >> Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/palatine >> @rootsweb.com/ >> >> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: >> https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >> >> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb >> community >> > > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/palatine@rootsweb.com/ Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/palatine@rootsweb.com/ Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

    05/26/2018 11:53:47
    1. [PALATINE] Re: Greetings!
    2. Wade Wilkerson
    3. I got involved in the Palantine list because my g-g-grandfather, Nicolas Walter, emigrated from Palatine and came to the US in 1751. I was interested in finding out why he may have emigrated. I am a 77 yr old mechanical engineer. Wade Wilkerson

    05/21/2018 08:45:39
    1. [PALATINE] Re: What is a Palatine?
    2. Julianne Love
    3. Thank you for this conversation. Julianne, St. Paul -----Original Message----- From: Dr. Beth Carlock [mailto:dr.bethcarlock@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2018 9:41 AM To: palatine@rootsweb.com Cc: Don Boyd Subject: [PALATINE] Re: What is a Palatine? From a search standpoint, the wider the better, within reason. Because of all the wars in this region, people were frequently pushed off farms and to other cities temporarily (and later, permanently) as the armies advanced and retreated. The borders changed often pre-1871. Record destruction is also a challenge. A family may be definitively from the strictly defined region, but then their descendants were forced to move due to the wars or the extreme cold of 1708-1709, and the small village church records ended up getting destroyed by fires, wars, etc. So, we might be able to place some ancestors within the wider region but be unable to place earlier ancestors within the bullseye area simply because the records are no longer available. That’s not even addressing how Palatines defined themselves at various times in history. Someone who called himself a Palatine in 1600 likely had a very different view of what that meant than someone in 1709. And they’d both be right because of how the region was self-defined at each of those times in history. One of the many challenges of genealogy! I would recommend staying more generic as a result of all the border changes alone. —Beth Carlock (Gerlach) On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 11:20 AM Don Boyd via PALATINE < palatine@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Literally, a Palatine is a person from Palatinate. But, where is > Palatinate? -- there's the rub. "Pfalz" has been different places at > different times. I've visited there multiple times, and even the > Germans get a little fuzzy about some places, if they don't happen to > be a student of history. For awhile after 1815, what was > French-controlled Pfalz in > 1812 was legally "Bavaria". > > > Here's a pretty good review of the situation: > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Palatinate > > > Don Boyd > > http://www.landofthebuckeye.net/ > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Melanie Crain <mdcrain@mac.com> > To: palatine <palatine@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Fri, May 18, 2018 10:58 am > Subject: [PALATINE] What is a Palatine? > > > It is interesting to see the search for the parameters of the Palatine > listerv. > > There is a Palatines to America Genealogical Society (often called > “PalAm”) which is an accumulation of several state chapters. I serve > the North Carolina Chapter as President. PalAm is about fifty years > old and has struggled with the same definition of the term Palatine. > I’ve heard many > origins: Palatine is only the Palatinate; it’s all the provinces > along the Rhine River; it includes Baden-Wurttemberg where the Neckar > feeds the Rhine; and probably much more. > > Those various explanations aside, PalAm basically is a genealogy > society for German research. The good result is that the more people > we serve, the greater the input and the richer the genealogy. Can we > consider the same generic focus for this listserv? > > Respectfully, > Melanie_______________________________________________ > _______________________________________________Email preferences: > http://bit.ly/rootswebprefUnsubscribe > https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/palatine@rootsweb.com/Archives: > > https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/palatine@rootsweb. > com/Privacy > Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9RootsWeb is funded and supported by > Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community > > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > > Unsubscribe > https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/palatine@rootsweb. > com/ > > Archives: > https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/palatine@rootsweb. > com/ > > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal > RootsWeb community > -- Sent from Gmail Mobile _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/palatine@rootsweb.com/ Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/palatine@rootsweb.com/ Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

    05/19/2018 08:51:11
    1. [PALATINE] Re: What is a Palatine?
    2. Dr. Beth Carlock
    3. From a search standpoint, the wider the better, within reason. Because of all the wars in this region, people were frequently pushed off farms and to other cities temporarily (and later, permanently) as the armies advanced and retreated. The borders changed often pre-1871. Record destruction is also a challenge. A family may be definitively from the strictly defined region, but then their descendants were forced to move due to the wars or the extreme cold of 1708-1709, and the small village church records ended up getting destroyed by fires, wars, etc. So, we might be able to place some ancestors within the wider region but be unable to place earlier ancestors within the bullseye area simply because the records are no longer available. That’s not even addressing how Palatines defined themselves at various times in history. Someone who called himself a Palatine in 1600 likely had a very different view of what that meant than someone in 1709. And they’d both be right because of how the region was self-defined at each of those times in history. One of the many challenges of genealogy! I would recommend staying more generic as a result of all the border changes alone. —Beth Carlock (Gerlach) On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 11:20 AM Don Boyd via PALATINE < palatine@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Literally, a Palatine is a person from Palatinate. But, where is > Palatinate? -- there's the rub. "Pfalz" has been different places at > different times. I've visited there multiple times, and even the Germans > get a little fuzzy about some places, if they don't happen to be a student > of history. For awhile after 1815, what was French-controlled Pfalz in > 1812 was legally "Bavaria". > > > Here's a pretty good review of the situation: > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Palatinate > > > Don Boyd > > http://www.landofthebuckeye.net/ > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Melanie Crain <mdcrain@mac.com> > To: palatine <palatine@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Fri, May 18, 2018 10:58 am > Subject: [PALATINE] What is a Palatine? > > > It is interesting to see the search for the parameters of the Palatine > listerv. > > There is a Palatines to America Genealogical Society (often called > “PalAm”) which is an accumulation of several state chapters. I serve the > North Carolina Chapter as President. PalAm is about fifty years old and has > struggled with the same definition of the term Palatine. I’ve heard many > origins: Palatine is only the Palatinate; it’s all the provinces along > the Rhine River; it includes Baden-Wurttemberg where the Neckar feeds the > Rhine; and probably much more. > > Those various explanations aside, PalAm basically is a genealogy society > for German research. The good result is that the more people we serve, the > greater the input and the richer the genealogy. Can we consider the same > generic focus for this listserv? > > Respectfully, > Melanie_______________________________________________ > _______________________________________________Email preferences: > http://bit.ly/rootswebprefUnsubscribe > https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/palatine@rootsweb.com/Archives: > > https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/palatine@rootsweb.com/Privacy > Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9RootsWeb is funded and supported by > Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community > > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > > Unsubscribe > https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/palatine@rootsweb.com/ > > Archives: > https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/palatine@rootsweb.com/ > > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community > -- Sent from Gmail Mobile

    05/19/2018 08:41:16
    1. [PALATINE] Re: Pflüger Line
    2. Melanie Crain
    3. Hi Mary Lee, Thanks for filling me in on your line. I have seen Johann’s signature plenty of times when I look at my Hans Georg’s signature on that ship manifest. I found your Nordheim on my German map; Wernsheim (which I misspelled) is just a short distance East of Pforzheim. I used to work at the NC State Archives as a volunteer and occasionally go back there. If I can look up or check anything for you in Tryon County, let me know. Some, but not a direct line, of my family still live in York, PA. The German spelling is long gone. You are likely to find it as Pflieger or Pfleiger since the 19th century in PA and Phlegar since the 19th-20th centuries in Virginia. I come down from the Virginia line. Stay in Touch, Melanie > On May 17, 2018, at 2:30 PM, Mary Lee Mann via PALATINE <palatine@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > Melanie- > > This has to come under the category or "small world after all." My palatinate ancestors were Johann Ludwig Gutbrodt and his wife Barbara Christina Gutbrodt who arrived in Philadelphia on the 16th of August 1731 also aboard the ship "Samuel" from Rotterdam. There were 39 men, 16 boys under sixteen, 33 women and 21 girls under 16 on board, which could have included your Hans Georg Pfluger. > Both Gutbrodts were born in Nordheim, a village north of Stuttgart. She was born a Schickner or Schuckner. Gutbrodt Luthern Church birth and baptism records have been found back to 1604 in Nordheim. > Before Johann Ludwig died in January, 1776 in York Co. PA, his will dated March 21, 1770 states he is "Loudawick Goodbred." > One son, about 6 years old who was on the "Samuel" with them, Philippus Gutbrodt, became known as Phillip Goodbread. He's my ancestor and the one who grew up and lived in Chester, Lancaster and/or York Counties PA. By 1768 he had moved his family to Tryon Co. NC. He and his sons fought in the American Revolution. Around 1781 his oldest son, Phillip, Jr. switched sides voluntarily or was captured, depending on whose story you believe, became a Loyalist and after being accused of treason, headed south to British East Florida near Jacksonville. After the war, when Britain returned Florida to Spain, this hardcore Luthern/Palatine and his Florida born wife left Roman Catholic Spanish Florida and moved to Cumberland Island off the Georgia coast. As an old man in C1836, he returned to Florida with 2 of his sons who developed plantations on the Suwanee River in north Florida and several generations later my mother was born in Chester, FL, just west of Fernandina, FL where I was born. > > If you've got any Gutbrodts/Goodbreads in your family tree, we're probably related and I'd love to learn anything you know about them in Germany. > > Mary Lee Mann > > > > In a message dated 5/16/2018 10:34:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, mdcrain@mac.com writes: > > > > Guten Tag, > > My German line immigrated in 1731 on the Ship Samuel. Hans Georg Pflüger was probably born in Wiernsheim, today a bedroom community to Pforzheim both in Baden-Wurttemberg. Hans Georg came into Philadelphia and soon after settled in today’s York County. He came with wife (Eve) and two young females: Christine, a daughter, and Maria Barbara, likely his sister. Because the immigrant Hans Georg died in 1754 about the age of 50, I have often wondered if he was a victim of the French and Indian War. I would like to hear from anyone whose immigrant might have had a similar experience in colonial America. I am also looking for others who came from Wiernsheim. Germans naturally tended to settle together so in the future I will give a brief description of more German family lines of mine. > > Tschüss, > > Melanie Crain > > > > > > > > Melanie Crain > NC Chapter President > 3425 Cambridge Rd > Durham, NC 27707 > (919) 489-8525 > > > > > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/palatine@rootsweb.com/ Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/palatine@rootsweb.com/ Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/palatine@rootsweb.com/ > > Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/palatine@rootsweb.com/ > > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

    05/18/2018 02:48:05
    1. [PALATINE] Re: What is a Palatine?
    2. Don Boyd
    3. Literally, a Palatine is a person from Palatinate. But, where is Palatinate? -- there's the rub. "Pfalz" has been different places at different times. I've visited there multiple times, and even the Germans get a little fuzzy about some places, if they don't happen to be a student of history. For awhile after 1815, what was French-controlled Pfalz in 1812 was legally "Bavaria". Here's a pretty good review of the situation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Palatinate Don Boyd http://www.landofthebuckeye.net/ -----Original Message----- From: Melanie Crain <mdcrain@mac.com> To: palatine <palatine@rootsweb.com> Sent: Fri, May 18, 2018 10:58 am Subject: [PALATINE] What is a Palatine? It is interesting to see the search for the parameters of the Palatine listerv. There is a Palatines to America Genealogical Society (often called “PalAm”) which is an accumulation of several state chapters. I serve the North Carolina Chapter as President. PalAm is about fifty years old and has struggled with the same definition of the term Palatine. I’ve heard many origins: Palatine is only the Palatinate; it’s all the provinces along the Rhine River; it includes Baden-Wurttemberg where the Neckar feeds the Rhine; and probably much more. Those various explanations aside, PalAm basically is a genealogy society for German research. The good result is that the more people we serve, the greater the input and the richer the genealogy. Can we consider the same generic focus for this listserv? Respectfully, Melanie_______________________________________________ _______________________________________________Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebprefUnsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/palatine@rootsweb.com/Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/palatine@rootsweb.com/Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

    05/18/2018 09:19:49
    1. [PALATINE] What is a Palatine?
    2. Melanie Crain
    3. It is interesting to see the search for the parameters of the Palatine listerv. There is a Palatines to America Genealogical Society (often called “PalAm”) which is an accumulation of several state chapters. I serve the North Carolina Chapter as President. PalAm is about fifty years old and has struggled with the same definition of the term Palatine. I’ve heard many origins: Palatine is only the Palatinate; it’s all the provinces along the Rhine River; it includes Baden-Wurttemberg where the Neckar feeds the Rhine; and probably much more. Those various explanations aside, PalAm basically is a genealogy society for German research. The good result is that the more people we serve, the greater the input and the richer the genealogy. Can we consider the same generic focus for this listserv? Respectfully, Melanie

    05/18/2018 08:57:50
    1. [PALATINE] Re: who's a Palatine?
    2. Julianne Love
    3. This is Julianne again. I should add the our closest YDNA matches are Eddlemon, Eddleman, Edelman, etc. The British Isles name-matches are a BIG surprise. Could this have something to do with the Palatines to Ireland? And back to Germany? -----Original Message----- From: Julianne Love [mailto:juliannelove@comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 9:36 PM To: palatine@rootsweb.com Subject: [PALATINE] Re: who's a Palatine? I'm glad you wrote this Kathy. I am unsure if my 5th great grandfather, Johannes Edelmann, born 1738, and who emigrated about 1750, qualifies as a Palatine. As far as I know, he came directly to America. Here's the mystery: our Y-DNA shows us related to a McNair, a McGregor, and a whole slew of Maxwells. Julianne (Adleman) Love Minnesota Yes, I was always under the impression that this list was for the anyone interested in the German Palatines who immigrated to Ireland and North America in 1709-1710. I descended from a Matthew Kuntz that settled in Rhinebeck, NY. Kathy Bizal _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/palatine@rootsweb.com/ Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/palatine@rootsweb.com/ Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

    05/18/2018 05:06:44
    1. [PALATINE] Book Recommendation: Becoming German
    2. Dawn Di Stefano
    3. Hi, Everyone, My Palatine ancestors came to New York in 1709/1710 and, for the most part, stayed put in the Hudson Valley.  In fact, the telephone directory when I was a kid bore a remarkable resemblance to the Hunter Lists, though that has changed a bit in the last 50 years. I thought some of you might be interested in a book which I recently read.  It didn't give me any specific information on my families, but it really helped me to put into perspective just who the Palatines were, why and how they emigrated, and how their experiences and the conditions in the New World gave them a sense of cohesive "German-ness."  The latter was especially interesting in light of the fact that there was no Germany at the time, just disparate duchies which were part of the Holy Roman Empire and which were loosely connected by similarities of language and culture. I'm not shilling for the author,  just found the book very illuminating. Philip Otterness.  2004. /Becoming German: The 1709 Palatine Migration to New York./ Cornell University Press. Glad the list is back.  Honestly, I'd forgotten all about it.... Dawn Bartley Di Stefano (Bekker, Kerker, Mosier, Overbagh, Sax, Trompboor, Wolven, etc., and variations) --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

    05/17/2018 09:01:35