Thank you, Mary, When I "saw" Kissell Hill, (Warwick township) I right always thought of the surname FREY/FRY which I have been researching in the northern part of Lancaster County, PA, especially of the earliest Penna. German,,s who settled in said area. I am sorry I am unable to assist you in your research. D. Ernest Weinhold * DEWeinhold@juno.com

Thank you Daniel, I appreciate your response to my query. Best to you in your search. Mary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Weinhold" <deweinhold@juno.com> To: <PALANCAS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [PALANCAS] Kissell Hill* > Thank you, Mary, > > When I "saw" Kissell Hill, (Warwick township) I right always thought of > the surname FREY/FRY which I have been researching in the northern part > of Lancaster County, PA, especially of the earliest Penna. German,,s who > settled in said area. > > I am sorry I am unable to assist you in your research. > > D. Ernest Weinhold > * DEWeinhold@juno.com > > > ==== PALANCAS Mailing List ==== > No political statements to this list. > No religious statements. > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.3/296 - Release Date: 3/29/2006 > >

In a message dated 4/1/2006 8:07:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, DougB81042@aol.com writes: FOR JOAN Better yet can the volunteer tell you if the previously proven lineage is still valid? Doug YES! That is the point of getting the CURRENT info that the volunteers get directly from the updated website. Ancestors that have been removed from the approval process for whatever reason (Peggy mentioned quite a few of the possibilities as to why and how that might happen) won't be listed in the current lookup replies you get from the VIS vols. Joan

Hello, Jack: What a nice e-mail! You don't happen to have any Wiley ancestors who moved to Kentucky? Michele ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Heine" <JHeine7533@msn.com> To: <PALANCAS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:32 PM Subject: [PALANCAS] Taxation > I hope that all who requested the records have received them. There are a few people I am still sending them too.If you have missed any let me know and I will get them sent to you. > A few have asked why I do it. Well I feel genealogy should be shared.. After I retired I took over where my Mother and Grandmother had left off. I have always been a history buff and genealogy is just another arm of that. I find it relaxing and fun, you also meet many friendly and sharing people. It also is a lot of fun finding out about your ancestors and how they lived. I am sure that we all have heroes and scoundrels in our family trees. Each month I write a short story about one of my ancestors for my grandchildren and great grandchildren, so as to get them interested in history. I pick someone at random and show how they lived and the hardships they went through. My Great Grandchildren cannot believe how I lived, I was born in 1933 on a farm in Illinois, we had no plumbing or electricity so no television and it seems to them the worst of all no cell phone. Our phone was party line and I still remember the number 33F4, we answered on 4 rings. I had it good as c! > ompared to some of my ancestors, those who were wounded in wars, pioneering, fighting hostiles. > I also like looking to see if any famous people are in my tree, I have found some, but they are many generations back. So any one that has the same interests I have. I have 2 books on my computer I send to anyone who wants them. > They are "Saints Who Left Descendents and Their Ancestry", by Brian Daniel Starr, it is 209 pages. The other book is "Our Royal Ancestors", by Winona Stevens Jones, it is about 150 pages long. If you want any or all of these books please contact me direct, rather than through the list. > One last thing the surnames I am researching in Lancaster County are: BONHAM, KRAUTH, LARNER, LYTLE, AND WILEY, > > Jack > > > ==== PALANCAS Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe first check and see if you are getting list or digest mode then e-mail PALANCAS-L-request@rootsweb.com or PALANCAS-D-request@rootsweb.com with unsubscribe in message. > >

Sorry, but this isn't accurate. I recently had to resubmit an application for a granddaughter of a current member. Since Grandma joined, the line was closed because the service Grandma used was for 1771 (prior to revolution) I was told to correct the service or find another ancestor for the gal. The new ancestor was easier. Janet Welty State Lineage Research Chair, OH DAR On Mar 31, 2006, at 11:00 PM, PALANCAS-D-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > If someone wants t o go into DAR using another's national number > all that > person has to do is prove the relationship to the member. It > doesn't matter how > many years are gone by.

Good Morning Daniel, Am looking for the surname Kissell, and there may be spelling variations. Thanks, Mary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Weinhold" <deweinhold@juno.com> To: <PALANCAS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 5:07 AM Subject: Re: [PALANCAS] Kissell Hill > Mary, > > (Just in case?) > > What surname might you be looking for?? > Ernest > > > ==== PALANCAS Mailing List ==== > No political statements to this list. > No religious statements. > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.3/296 - Release Date: 3/29/2006 > >

FOR JOAN Better yet can the volunteer tell you if the previously proven lineage is still valid? Doug

No they cannot. Only the Registrar has access to lineage information. Kathy -----Original Message----- From: DougB81042@aol.com [mailto:DougB81042@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 7:06 AM To: PALANCAS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [PALANCAS] DAR LOOKUP FOR JOAN Better yet can the volunteer tell you if the previously proven lineage is still valid? Doug ==== PALANCAS Mailing List ==== http//www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/aup.html You are responsible for following the A.U.P. Acceptable Use Policy

Mary, (Just in case?) What surname might you be looking for?? Ernest

I would like to concur with what Peggy has said as my Aunt is now submitting one family line that years ago was submitted with incorrect information. We have spent years working on documentation to correct the error before our family line is submitted to the DAR. Cheryl ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peggy K. Reeves" <peg@reevesweb.com> To: <PALANCAS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 12:29 AM Subject: [PALANCAS] About DAR research > (If you're not interested in DAR research, you might want to delete now > and move on...) > > I would like to clear this up, because I work at DAR often...not as an > employee of theirs, but as a paid researcher that others hire. I don't > enjoy DAR jobs, because unfortunately I have DISproven more of their lines > than I have proven, and that is not fun to tell a client. Since this is > something I have a great deal of experience with, I'm going to answer > several postings at once... > > First of all, you can no longer just cite another national number and get > in. The reason is because in the early days of DAR they didn't require > proof--you could pretty much make up any lineage that you wanted to...and > everyone did! In fact, the oldest forms didn't even have spaces where you > were asked for dates, places, etc. This caused problems later, of course, > and the forms were changed. The forms have changed a number of times over > the years. > > Second, there are quite a few members who got in by citing their lineage > as it was published in someone's genealogy book--even though the book gave > no sources. Goodspeed's and others are notorious for this. Things > published are held in high esteem, but the fact is that these town > histories were compiled by asking the old folks of the town to submit a > piece about their families--which was then often enhanced and overblown > and not necessarily remembered accurately. Everyone in those books was > "prominent" and "educated", and all of the other words people want to see. > I would say that the majority of pedigrees that I have looked at in the > applications and proof files at DAR (and I have looked at hundreds of > them) use someone's book as their biggest or only proof--even though it is > not proof. These are the lineages that are often pretty easy to take > apart. One person got in using "the book", and a train of others > followed, citing that number. > > Third, while DAR is not "officially" accepting the old unproven lineages > any more, it really depends who you are and who you know--and which > volunteer reviews your application. They aren't supposed to accept flimsy > proofs any more, but I have seen some lately. Sad but true. > > Fourth, it is true that DAR has removed some Patriots from the Patriot > Index, but they DO NOT remove them simply because there is lack of proof. > I wish they would, but oh, no, someone has to be very tenacious and prove > beyond a shadow of a doubt something that is CONTRARY to what has already > been accepted--even if the original application was accepted ages ago with > no proof at all! You almost need an act of Congress to get one removed. > I have tracked a number of "fakes" before, and the extent that some people > would go to in order to become members is startling. One proof file had > typed Bible records and an alleged letter from an ancestor, telling the > family line. The same applicant had another family member write a little > "book" to put in the DAR Library, just so she could cite the book, as > well. The forward of the book, published a year before the application was > turned in, said: "I am doing this at the request of a family member..." > She was that desperate to prove she was descended from a General. Guess > what? She wasn't. I found an affidavit in a scrip application file at > NARA dated 1830, written by a neighbor of the family who had lived > nextdoor to them forever, that named all of the General's children, both > living and dead. The alleged person who was "a twin who ran off and > married young" was not on the list! > > Fifth, there aren't "better records" that exist now. More information is > being transcribed and put online, but the truth is that the same proofs > that are required now were available long ago (and were probably in better > condition long ago)--wills, deeds, administration and guardianship papers, > court records, soldiers' pension files, death certificates, church > records, etc... People want to take the easy way out, but the only way to > "prove" your lineage is to go to the original source documents--not > abstracts, not genealogy books, and definitely not online pedigrees. The > online stuff can be helpful, because if you find an ancestor listed as > having a will in a particular place, it tells you where to look and saves > you some time that way--you know where to order it from. But you do need > the original documents if you want to get it right. One of my family's > old wills which is transcribed at ancestry.com leaves out one of the > children! I have a copy of the original will, and the name is there. > Another will transcribed at ancestry was done by someone who had no > experience at all in reading old writing--the whole thing was badly > transcribed, and all of the names were wrong. Good thing I looked at and > copied the original on microfilm at the York Archives. It really is quite > readable if you know what you're looking at. > > As for looking things up, I own the 2003 edition of the Patriot Index and > can look up a name, but just because it's in the Patriot Index does not > mean there will be proofs at DAR. In fact, quite often there won't be, > but those names will stay in the Patriot Index until someone disproves the > line. Looking things up at the DAR Library itself has gotten easier since > they put in several computer terminals that can access their database. > You can put in a national number or the name of a patriot or the name of a > member. You can get a list of everyone who joined on a particular patriot > and view their applications on-screen for free. That is a huge > improvement over the old days. But they still charge you $10.00 per copy > if you want to copy someone's application. They also charge nonmembers > $6.00 per day just to get into the library. Soldiers whose names are not > in the DAR Patriot Index doesn't mean that they didn't serve--it only > means that no one has proven them. > > Don't get me wrong, the DAR Library has a lot of great resources and is > definitely worth a trip. There are many volunteers who have done books > where they have abstracted various court records, cemetery records, church > records, etc... that are on the shelves. There are many family genealogy > books, and some of them are actually well done. Mr. Harry Diehl has a > book about a lot of families in Lancaster, York, and Adams Counties, and > he cites his sources and his book is very useful for that reason (most > genealogy books are not like that). There is a lot to be found in the DAR > Library, as long as you remember that you really must order the actual > documents and not rely on a book or abstract. Otherwise you run the risk > of somebody like me coming along and finding original source documents at > NARA or somewhere else that undo the lineage that you thought was proven! > The purpose of genealogy is to reveal history, not to rewrite it. > > If anyone needs a Patriot Index lookup, please hit "reply all" and then go > to the line that says: "To" and erase the "PALANCAS-L" address so that it > only comes to me privately and doesn't burden all of the other list > members. It's easy to do, and polite. Thanks! > > Peggy Reeves > Burtonsville, Maryland > R.M. Cousins Genealogy Service > Member, DAR > > > ==== PALANCAS Mailing List ==== > When replying to the list change the subject line if you change the > subject. > >

In a message dated 4/1/2006 12:29:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, peg@reevesweb.com writes: If anyone needs a Patriot Index lookup, please hit "reply all" and then go to the line that says: "To" and erase the "PALANCAS-L" address so that it only comes to me privately and doesn't burden all of the other list members. It's easy to do, and polite. Thanks! Peggy Reeves Peggy- Even the 2003 lineage book is not as current as the listings the VIS volunteers on our message board can access online. Best to request a lookup from the VIS vols. http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=topics.organizations.dar Joan

Wouldn't it be nice if we had a place to post such things as the "little" books that are being offered? If they could be copied/scanned once into the archives or onto a web site, then we could all use them without the kind person offering having to reprint or copy them for the many people who would like to look at them. Does anyone know if the Lancaster Historical or Genealogical Society would host such postings? I, for one, would be willing to help type such helpful information onto a web site so that we could all use it and avoid the whole "list-cluttering" debate.

(If you're not interested in DAR research, you might want to delete now and move on...) I would like to clear this up, because I work at DAR often...not as an employee of theirs, but as a paid researcher that others hire. I don't enjoy DAR jobs, because unfortunately I have DISproven more of their lines than I have proven, and that is not fun to tell a client. Since this is something I have a great deal of experience with, I'm going to answer several postings at once... First of all, you can no longer just cite another national number and get in. The reason is because in the early days of DAR they didn't require proof--you could pretty much make up any lineage that you wanted to...and everyone did! In fact, the oldest forms didn't even have spaces where you were asked for dates, places, etc. This caused problems later, of course, and the forms were changed. The forms have changed a number of times over the years. Second, there are quite a few members who got in by citing their lineage as it was published in someone's genealogy book--even though the book gave no sources. Goodspeed's and others are notorious for this. Things published are held in high esteem, but the fact is that these town histories were compiled by asking the old folks of the town to submit a piece about their families--which was then often enhanced and overblown and not necessarily remembered accurately. Everyone in those books was "prominent" and "educated", and all of the other words people want to see. I would say that the majority of pedigrees that I have looked at in the applications and proof files at DAR (and I have looked at hundreds of them) use someone's book as their biggest or only proof--even though it is not proof. These are the lineages that are often pretty easy to take apart. One person got in using "the book", and a train of others followed, citing that number. Third, while DAR is not "officially" accepting the old unproven lineages any more, it really depends who you are and who you know--and which volunteer reviews your application. They aren't supposed to accept flimsy proofs any more, but I have seen some lately. Sad but true. Fourth, it is true that DAR has removed some Patriots from the Patriot Index, but they DO NOT remove them simply because there is lack of proof. I wish they would, but oh, no, someone has to be very tenacious and prove beyond a shadow of a doubt something that is CONTRARY to what has already been accepted--even if the original application was accepted ages ago with no proof at all! You almost need an act of Congress to get one removed. I have tracked a number of "fakes" before, and the extent that some people would go to in order to become members is startling. One proof file had typed Bible records and an alleged letter from an ancestor, telling the family line. The same applicant had another family member write a little "book" to put in the DAR Library, just so she could cite the book, as well. The forward of the book, published a year before the application was turned in, said: "I am doing this at the request of a family member..." She was that desperate to prove she was descended from a General. Guess what? She wasn't. I found an affidavit in a scrip application file at NARA dated 1830, written by a neighbor of the family who had lived nextdoor to them forever, that named all of the General's children, both living and dead. The alleged person who was "a twin who ran off and married young" was not on the list! Fifth, there aren't "better records" that exist now. More information is being transcribed and put online, but the truth is that the same proofs that are required now were available long ago (and were probably in better condition long ago)--wills, deeds, administration and guardianship papers, court records, soldiers' pension files, death certificates, church records, etc... People want to take the easy way out, but the only way to "prove" your lineage is to go to the original source documents--not abstracts, not genealogy books, and definitely not online pedigrees. The online stuff can be helpful, because if you find an ancestor listed as having a will in a particular place, it tells you where to look and saves you some time that way--you know where to order it from. But you do need the original documents if you want to get it right. One of my family's old wills which is transcribed at ancestry.com leaves out one of the children! I have a copy of the original will, and the name is there. Another will transcribed at ancestry was done by someone who had no experience at all in reading old writing--the whole thing was badly transcribed, and all of the names were wrong. Good thing I looked at and copied the original on microfilm at the York Archives. It really is quite readable if you know what you're looking at. As for looking things up, I own the 2003 edition of the Patriot Index and can look up a name, but just because it's in the Patriot Index does not mean there will be proofs at DAR. In fact, quite often there won't be, but those names will stay in the Patriot Index until someone disproves the line. Looking things up at the DAR Library itself has gotten easier since they put in several computer terminals that can access their database. You can put in a national number or the name of a patriot or the name of a member. You can get a list of everyone who joined on a particular patriot and view their applications on-screen for free. That is a huge improvement over the old days. But they still charge you $10.00 per copy if you want to copy someone's application. They also charge nonmembers $6.00 per day just to get into the library. Soldiers whose names are not in the DAR Patriot Index doesn't mean that they didn't serve--it only means that no one has proven them. Don't get me wrong, the DAR Library has a lot of great resources and is definitely worth a trip. There are many volunteers who have done books where they have abstracted various court records, cemetery records, church records, etc... that are on the shelves. There are many family genealogy books, and some of them are actually well done. Mr. Harry Diehl has a book about a lot of families in Lancaster, York, and Adams Counties, and he cites his sources and his book is very useful for that reason (most genealogy books are not like that). There is a lot to be found in the DAR Library, as long as you remember that you really must order the actual documents and not rely on a book or abstract. Otherwise you run the risk of somebody like me coming along and finding original source documents at NARA or somewhere else that undo the lineage that you thought was proven! The purpose of genealogy is to reveal history, not to rewrite it. If anyone needs a Patriot Index lookup, please hit "reply all" and then go to the line that says: "To" and erase the "PALANCAS-L" address so that it only comes to me privately and doesn't burden all of the other list members. It's easy to do, and polite. Thanks! Peggy Reeves Burtonsville, Maryland R.M. Cousins Genealogy Service Member, DAR

Does anyone on the list know if there is a history of some sort online about Kissell Hill? Thank You, Mary

In a message dated 4/1/2006 12:04:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, cpettit@telis.net writes: Perhaps a re-statement of what others have alluded to.. There are some patriots who have been mixed up with the wrong men- - perhaps they had the same name- at any rate there are certain person where proof of a relation to particular previously accetted patriot is no longer being accepted - additional proof of the patriot in question is being scrutinized... I do know of several particular persons whose DAR records are now under scruitny - most of the problems seem to arrive when others descending from another person of the same name comes up with proof that shows that the intitial DAR patriot is not the same man... Paul Pettit Paul- That is not the only reason for denial of new applications when an ancestor had previously been accepted. When the proof requirements were tightened up some ancestors were no longer acceptable unless new proof of service could be supplied. For instance, I initially applied to DAR using one ancestor who was in the Patriot Index based on an application that had been approved in the early 1980s. They had subsequently found that this ancestor had been fined for not showing up for duty. Unless I could supply proof that he later showed up and served they refused my application. So I switched to another ancestor who had received a pension (Frederick LEADER of Lancaster County) and that was considered much better proof and was accepted. Joan

Perhaps a re-statement of what others have alluded to.. There are some patriots who have been mixed up with the wrong men- - perhaps they had the same name- at any rate there are certain person where proof of a relation to particular previously accetted patriot is no longer being accepted - additional proof of the patriot in question is being scrutinized... I do know of several particular persons whose DAR records are now under scruitny - most of the problems seem to arrive when others descending from another person of the same name comes up with proof that shows that the intitial DAR patriot is not the same man... Paul Pettit

If someone wants t o go into DAR using another's national number all that person has to do is prove the relationship to the member. It doesn't matter how many years are gone by. Rhoda

Just for everyone's information, apparently, the DAR isn't necessarily accepting someone coming in through old lineages. Apparently, there are better records available now, and they want much better information than what some of the older members got in on. Karen

The best way to find out who that number represents is to send another check to the DAR Library with the proper form and they will send you the application papers that correspond to that DAR number. Kathy -----Original Message----- From: JYoung6180@aol.com [mailto:JYoung6180@aol.com] Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 9:58 AM To: PALANCAS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PALANCAS] DAR look up request: Jacob Rush 1752-1810 In a message dated 3/31/2006 10:53:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, clawsonsy@hotmail.com writes: Does anyone do lookups in the DAR lineage books by chance? I have a copy of the page for Myrtle Campbell Jones, #134615, who joined on Rev. War service of Jacob Rush 1752-1810. The entry also mentions number 134614. I am curious as to who this is. Thanks, Susan Susan- We have a message board at RootsWeb where helpful DAR VIS (Volunteers in Service) lookup specialists will be happy to check for your ancestor in the current Patriot Index. The board is located here: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=topics.organizations.dar Joan ==== PALANCAS Mailing List ==== When replying to the list change the subject line if you change the subject.

I hope that all who requested the records have received them. There are a few people I am still sending them too.If you have missed any let me know and I will get them sent to you. A few have asked why I do it. Well I feel genealogy should be shared.. After I retired I took over where my Mother and Grandmother had left off. I have always been a history buff and genealogy is just another arm of that. I find it relaxing and fun, you also meet many friendly and sharing people. It also is a lot of fun finding out about your ancestors and how they lived. I am sure that we all have heroes and scoundrels in our family trees. Each month I write a short story about one of my ancestors for my grandchildren and great grandchildren, so as to get them interested in history. I pick someone at random and show how they lived and the hardships they went through. My Great Grandchildren cannot believe how I lived, I was born in 1933 on a farm in Illinois, we had no plumbing or electricity so no television and it seems to them the worst of all no cell phone. Our phone was party line and I still remember the number 33F4, we answered on 4 rings. I had it good as c! ompared to some of my ancestors, those who were wounded in wars, pioneering, fighting hostiles. I also like looking to see if any famous people are in my tree, I have found some, but they are many generations back. So any one that has the same interests I have. I have 2 books on my computer I send to anyone who wants them. They are "Saints Who Left Descendents and Their Ancestry", by Brian Daniel Starr, it is 209 pages. The other book is "Our Royal Ancestors", by Winona Stevens Jones, it is about 150 pages long. If you want any or all of these books please contact me direct, rather than through the list. One last thing the surnames I am researching in Lancaster County are: BONHAM, KRAUTH, LARNER, LYTLE, AND WILEY, Jack