Finally! My husband's interest in cycling and my interest in genealogy have intersected! Now, he wants to know if there's any chance that my Mennonite roots might have intersected with those of Floyd Landis (Tour de France contender) - hoping our boys may have gotten some of those genes! Does anyone happen to know the genealogy of the Landis family of Farmerville? Thanks! Patty Haldeman Wise
Don't know anything regarding his ancestors, but do know he lives here in my small town in Southern Calif., Riverside Co., called Murrieta. Shirley Middleton Moller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia Wise" <patricia_wise@hotmail.com> To: <PALANCAS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 6:55 AM Subject: [PALANCAS] Floyd Landis > Finally! My husband's interest in cycling and my interest in genealogy > have intersected! Now, he wants to know if there's any chance that my > Mennonite roots might have intersected with those of Floyd Landis (Tour de > France contender) - hoping our boys may have gotten some of those genes! > > Does anyone happen to know the genealogy of the Landis family of > Farmerville? > > Thanks! > > Patty Haldeman Wise > > > > ==== PALANCAS Mailing List ==== > No political statements to this list. > No religious statements. >
Patty, My cousin's daughter is m'd. to Floyd's cousin. It so happens, that both men are of the Landies FROM Bucks and Montg. Counties, PA and NOT related to those of Lancaster Co., PA Confusing? My cousin's father was a Landis as was my mother, But Alas, family history research has NOT "connected" our line with those of Lancaster Co. or of eastern PA. That IS MY Stone wall. . No known immigrant or relationship to the larger line,s. The cut off is Abraham Landis's birthdate as 1790 and his wife Maria Huber/Hoover as 1795, and that is as far back we are able to go. Hence Floyd's line is no relationship to our Landis line that we know of. Ernest (living in Lancaster Co. PA)
I have an ancestor who was b. in Lancaster Co., and lived there until age 50, when he moved to Lycoming Co. to become a lumber camp superintendent. After being there only a short time, he was killed in an accident (1851). His wife and two daughters moved back to Lancaster Co. I have never found his grave, nor do I know his siblings. I have searched records in both Lancaster and Lycoming Co., and have found nothing yet. Which county would I be best to concentrate on? I don't know if it would be more likely to find any inestate record in Lycoming where he died, or Lancaster where he lived his whole life, as did his wife and daughters. Any opinion?? Yvonne
Hi Yvonne, I would look in Lycoming County. Since he was a camp superintendent one would think he had some assets in Lycoming County and so some kind of probate. He could also have records in Lancaster County if he had property here. I don't know if Lycoming County had any newspapers but you might check there for an account of his death and where he is buried. Its a long shot but you might also check the Columbia Spy, on the LCHS web site to see if there was a notice of his death there. Its a long shot but its an easy long shot to check. When searching the Columbia Spy I'd search for Lycoming County rather than a surname search. I've had mixed results with surnames search, they don't always show up even though the names are there. Jim Conestoga Area Historical Society http://rootsweb.com/~pacahs/index.htm MarkleVon@aol.com wrote: I have an ancestor who was b. in Lancaster Co., and lived there until age 50, when he moved to Lycoming Co. to become a lumber camp superintendent. After being there only a short time, he was killed in an accident (1851). His wife and two daughters moved back to Lancaster Co. I have never found his grave, nor do I know his siblings. I have searched records in both Lancaster and Lycoming Co., and have found nothing yet. Which county would I be best to concentrate on? I don't know if it would be more likely to find any inestate record in Lycoming where he died, or Lancaster where he lived his whole life, as did his wife and daughters. Any opinion?? Yvonne ==== PALANCAS Mailing List ==== When replying to the list change the subject line if you change the subject. --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates.
Charles E. Kindt - Lebanon,Pa. Genealogy research in Pa.Counties; LEBANON-LANCASTER-DAUPHIN-BERKS-SCHUYLKILL BEHNEY-BOHR-BOLTZ-COPENHAVER-DEAVEN-DISSINGER-DITZLER FAHLER-FAKE-GERBERICH-GETTLE-HIMMELBERGER-KINDT-KOHR KREISER-McKINNEY-MEASE-SCHAEFFER-SHAEFFER-WEABER-WOLFE website: http://users.nbn.net/charo/ KEEPER OF THE FLAME ----- Original Message ----- From: <PAresearcher@aol.com> To: <PALANCAS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 3:44 PM Subject: Re: [PALANCAS] Sibling's Wills > > A spinster aunt, especially, can be a treasure trove! My g-g-aunt had a > lot > of family treasures and left every one to someone different. What a > treasure > store of cousins and other relatives! (Wish I could track down that Irish > chain quilt...) Always look for wills, especially, of siblings! > > Judy > > In a message dated 7/20/2006 10:55:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > miabethc@gmail.com writes: > > ""I can't stress enough how important it can be to search for relatives > that are not in your direct line. If you are not finding a will or > intestate records for your ancestor, look for wills belonging to your > ancestor's siblings, especially siblings who died and leave no living > children. Many times the estate will be split up between either their > siblings or their nieces & nephews. This can provide great > documentation on your family and let you know of the location of > "lost" relatives."" > > > > > > > ==== PALANCAS Mailing List ==== > List Owner can be reached for help with the list at > PALANCAS-Admin@rootsweb.com > > >
Also death records of siblings. If your direct line died before 1905 and you are stuck consider a sibling lived beyond that date if possible. They usually had the same parents in that day and age. Mike
A spinster aunt, especially, can be a treasure trove! My g-g-aunt had a lot of family treasures and left every one to someone different. What a treasure store of cousins and other relatives! (Wish I could track down that Irish chain quilt...) Always look for wills, especially, of siblings! Judy In a message dated 7/20/2006 10:55:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time, miabethc@gmail.com writes: ""I can't stress enough how important it can be to search for relatives that are not in your direct line. If you are not finding a will or intestate records for your ancestor, look for wills belonging to your ancestor's siblings, especially siblings who died and leave no living children. Many times the estate will be split up between either their siblings or their nieces & nephews. This can provide great documentation on your family and let you know of the location of "lost" relatives.""
Good Afternoon FROM "Black's Law Dictionary" Third Edition. Orphans' Court-----In American Law, Courts of Probate jurisdiction, in Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania. Doug
My understanding is that with Orphans Court, the estate is treated as an orphan when a person dies without a will (intestate). Guardians are appointed for the estate, bonds are posted and inventories are taken. The guardian or court appointed administrator of the estate reports back to the court usually making a recommendation that the estate be sold at auction (public vendue) in order to make it easier to divide the estate. A list of the auctioned items along with the purchaser's name and price paid can usually be found in Orphans Court records. The guardian will also present an account of all the money he's collected or paid out in the process of settling the estate. The Orphans Court does appoint guardians for minors, but it is to the effect that they look out for the minors' interests in the estate. (Not guardians in the sense that the children live with the guardian). Some estates take many years to settle (30+), so when searching the indexes, make sure you look for at least 20 years afterwards. You can also find records for estate settlement in the deed books, usually listed as a release, where the heirs of the deceased sign off on any claim to the land. It is my understanding that an estate with a will can end up in Orphans Court if the named executor renounces the responsibility or if there are irregularities with the will. I can't stress enough how important it can be to search for relatives that are not in your direct line. If you are not finding a will or intestate records for your ancestor, look for wills belonging to your ancestor's siblings, especially siblings who died and leave no living children. Many times the estate will be split up between either their siblings or their nieces & nephews. This can provide great documentation on your family and let you know of the location of "lost" relatives. > Hello Fellow Listers: > > The term "Orphan Court" is actually a little misleading. Sure they > sometimes deal with assigning a guardian for a deceased person's minor > children.... but they can also - more often - deals with other > legal matters > that have not been handled or taken care of through the making of > wills or > deeds.... etc.. Usually you will find that estates are being > settled for > someone who died intestate [not having a will].
My ancestor, who lived and died in Warwick T., in today's Penn T., sold land in today's Franklin Co., then Cumberland Co., to one Peter Witmer. Does anyone have any idea which Peter Witmer this would have been? Which Peter Witmer lived closest to Warwick T? Did the one who left a will in Lebanon previously live in Warwick T., in today's Penn T or ever temporarily live in Cumberland Co. (in today's Franklin Co.) at all? Would earlier tax records of Lancaster Co. show where these Peter Witmers were living before the 1790 census? Richard
Hi Nelson, I ran into a few little family matters like this...... When my Great Great Grandmother died.........all of the children were put in homes of family members and or friends.........he did not have the means to take care of the children......... And..........I also found another that at the age of 30 years old her husband died.........I found all four of her children in an Orphan's home. But, all together..........she could not take care of them..... Another instance: The couple had two young children ....they were getting up in years......so again, the committed - yes committed these two girls into a home ...........both young girls lived and, died there ..... Isn't it something what some children do go through just to survive ! Kindly Bea ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nelson R. Sulouff" <zuli@sprintmail.com> To: <PALANCAS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 3:06 AM Subject: Re: [PALANCAS] Orphan Court question > In my own research in SE Pennsylvania I have found that more frequently > underage "half-orphans" (as the query called them) were put in an > orphanage when their mothers died because the father had to work and could > not care for the children. In my own research, when fathers died I have > more frequently seen underage children that a mother could not care for > were sent to live with siblings or cousins of the father or the mother > rather than to an orphanage. These observations may just happen to be true > for the families I have researched and I am not implying that a > generalization should be made from the circumstances I've observed. > > Nelson R. Sulouff > ////////////////////////////// > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sahara346@aol.com > To: PALANCAS-L@rootsweb.com > Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 2:56 PM > Subject: Re: [PALANCAS] Orphan Court question > > > Early laws were such that if the father died, the children were orphans, > whether the mother was still living or not. I have a Gish family that > shows up > in Orphan's Court pre 1850, but the mother was still alive in the 1880s. > > Karen > > > ==== PALANCAS Mailing List ==== > When replying to the list change the subject line if you change the > subject. > >
In my own research in SE Pennsylvania I have found that more frequently underage "half-orphans" (as the query called them) were put in an orphanage when their mothers died because the father had to work and could not care for the children. In my own research, when fathers died I have more frequently seen underage children that a mother could not care for were sent to live with siblings or cousins of the father or the mother rather than to an orphanage. These observations may just happen to be true for the families I have researched and I am not implying that a generalization should be made from the circumstances I've observed. Nelson R. Sulouff ////////////////////////////// ----- Original Message ----- From: Sahara346@aol.com To: PALANCAS-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [PALANCAS] Orphan Court question Early laws were such that if the father died, the children were orphans, whether the mother was still living or not. I have a Gish family that shows up in Orphan's Court pre 1850, but the mother was still alive in the 1880s. Karen
Hello Fellow Listers: The term "Orphan Court" is actually a little misleading. Sure they sometimes deal with assigning a guardian for a deceased person's minor children.... but they can also - more often - deals with other legal matters that have not been handled or taken care of through the making of wills or deeds.... etc.. Usually you will find that estates are being settled for someone who died intestate [not having a will]. Donna Heller Zinn of Newville, Cumberland Co., PA. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Betty" <betty@unisette.com> To: <PALANCAS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 3:07 PM Subject: [PALANCAS] Orphan Court question > Would the Orphan Court listing show half-orphns as well? I am looking for > any information I can find on the Brock family. The father, Charles Brock, > died somewhere between 1885 and 1900. This family lived in Lancaster > Township on all records I have found so far. > Mother Annie Brock and her children are listed on the 1900 census, all the > children (teenagers) having jobs. > > Betty in Sac > > > The Orphan Court listing actually shows the birth order of the females also. > > > ==== PALANCAS Mailing List ==== > This is your list use and enjoy for genealogy. >
Early laws were such that if the father died, the children were orphans, whether the mother was still living or not. I have a Gish family that shows up in Orphan's Court pre 1850, but the mother was still alive in the 1880s. Karen
This is what I found by Richard Warren Davis on both families: 1. PETER (WITMORE)8 WITMER, SR. (MICHAEL7, CHRISTOPHER6, MICHAEL5, HANS4, CORDT3, MICHAEL2, CHRISTOPHER1) was born 04 Jun 1712, and died Bef. 1794 in Lebanon Twp., Dauphin County, Pennsylvania. He married ANNA (BAUGHMAN) BOWMAN, daughter of MICHAEL BOWMAN and CATHARINE. She was born Abt. 1721, and died Bef. 1786. Notes for PETER (WITMORE) WITMER, SR.: Emigrants, Refugees & Prisoners Vol. II by Richard Warren Davis Immigrant age 21 in 1733. Tobias Kreider was witness to the will, he names his wife as Catherine in the will. Peter and Anna received 259 acres of land in 1748 in Lebanon Twp. from her father Michael Bachman. On 14 Decemer 1763 Anna and Peter Witmer heirs of Michael Baughman signed a deed at Lancaster. He was taxed at Lebanon Twp. in 1750. Peter probably met Anna in 1738. In 1811 a settlement of the estate of Anna's brother Christian Bachman listed the following children of Peter Witmer and wife Anna Bachman: Michael, Feronica, Barbarra, Elizabeth who married Rodenbaugh, Catherine who married Horst, and Peter Witmer Notes for ANNA (BAUGHMAN) BOWMAN: On 11 March 1747/48 her parents conveyed "in trust" land in Lancaster County for their "daughter Anna, lately intermarried with Peter Witmer of Lancaster County, Yeoman." This grant (2 adjoining tracts in Lebanon Twp.) was confirmed to "son-in-law Peter Whitmore and Anna his wife" by Michael Baughman in his will in 1755. On 14 November 1763, "Peter Whitmore of Lancaster County and Anna his wife" joined in a deed of settlement of part of the estate of Michael Baughman. Anna may have been married in Lancaster County in 1738. The 1811 settlement of the estate of Christian Baughman identified Anna's children by Peter Witmer. Children of PETER WITMER and ANNA BOWMAN are: i. MICHAEL9 WITMER, b. 28 Mar 1739; m. MARIA MEYER; b. Abt. 1743. ii. PETER WITMER, b. 15 Aug 1741; d. Bef. 1760. iii. VERONICA WITMER, b. 31 Aug 1743; d. Bef. 1794; m. NATHANIEL NESBIT, 18 Nov 1761, St James Episcopal Church, Lancaster. Notes for NATHANIEL NESBIT: They had 9 children. iv. BARBARA WITMER, b. Sep 1745. v. ELISABETH WITMER, b. 25 Dec 1752; m. (RODENBAUGH) RODENBACH. vi. CATHARINE WITMER, b. Abt. 1754; d. Bef. 1794; m. (HORST) HURST. vii. MAGDALENA WITMER, b. 09 Sep 1756. Notes for MAGDALENA WITMER: Emigrants, Refugees & Prisoners Vol. II by Richard Warren Davis She died young. viii. PETER WITMER, JR., b. 16 Feb 1760; m. ANNA SMITH. Notes for PETER WITMER, JR.: Emigrants, Refugees & Prisoners Vol. II by Richard Warren Davis The executor of his father's will in 1794. _______________________________________ 1. PETER4 WITMER, SR. (JOHANNES3, ULRICH2, PETER (WIDMER)1) was born 1712, and died Bef. Jul 1792 in Manor Twp., Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. He married (1) ELISABETH HERR Abt. 1745, daughter of ISAAC HERR. She was born Abt. 1712, and died Abt. 1750. He married (2) MAGDALENA SCHALLENBERGER Aft. 1750, daughter of PETER SCHALLENBERGER and MARIA. She was born 1722, and died Abt. 1759 in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. He married (3) CATHARINE ENGEL, daughter of ULRICH ENGEL and ANNA BRECKBILL. She was born 1739, and died 1807. Notes for PETER WITMER, SR.: Immigrant in 1744 on the ship Muscliffe Galley with a group of Mennonites and Amish. On 11 February 1745 he purchased 132 acres in Conestoga twp. (now Manor) from Jacob Brubaker. The land was near Hans Witmer's land who died in 1749. Taxed in Manor Twp. next to the widow Witmer in the 1750's. Taxed at Manor Twp. in 1751, 1754, and in 1756 next to widow Witmer on 100 acres. In 1758 taxed next to John and Jacob Witmer who each had 40 acres. He was a Mennonite. He wrote his will 20 November 1784, proved 28 July 1792. He mentioned his wife Catharine in his will. The executors were friends Benjamin Musser and Christian Stauffer, witnesses were Christian Bachman and Rudolph Wissler. He mentions 17 of his 18 children. Also names his grandson Peter, the only child of his son Christian in his will. His signature on his will dated 20 November 1784 matched the signature of the 1744 Peter Witmer arrival. From Manor Twp., Lancaster County. Notes for ELISABETH HERR: She had 2 children by Peter Witmer. Notes for MAGDALENA SCHALLENBERGER: She had 3 children by Peter Witmer. Notes for CATHARINE ENGEL: She had 13 children with Peter. Children of PETER WITMER and ELISABETH HERR are: i. CHRISTIAN5 WITMER, b. Abt. 1747; d. Feb 1777, Donegal Twp., Lancaster County, Pennsylvania; m. BARBARA EBERSOLE. Notes for CHRISTIAN WITMER: The executor of his will was his father Peter Witmer. In orphan court records on 1 December 1792, Peter Witmer was called his only child. Taxed at Donegal Twp. in 1773. Lancaster County Will Abstracts Christian Witmer, Donegal Twp. 14 February 1776-7 February 1777 Wife: Barbara Witmer. Exe: father Peter Witmer and father-in-law Abraham Eversohl ii. ELISABETH WITMER, b. Abt. 1749. Children of PETER WITMER and MAGDALENA SCHALLENBERGER are: iii. MAGDALENA5 WITMER, b. Abt. 1752; m. CHRISTIAN HUBER. iv. PETER WITMER, JR., b. Abt. 1754; d. Bef. 1813, Bart Twp., Lancaster County, Pennsylvania; m. ESTHER HERR. Notes for PETER WITMER, JR.: They had 7 children. v. MARIA WITMER, b. Abt. 1756; d. Bef. 1792; m. DAVID MEYER. Children of PETER WITMER and CATHARINE ENGEL are: vi. JOHANNES5 WITMER, b. Abt. 1757; d. 1792, Donegal Twp., Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. Notes for JOHANNES WITMER: Peter Witmer of Manor Twp. was appointed guardian over his 3 children in December of 1792. vii. ANNA WITMER, b. 17 Feb 1759; d. 23 Jul 1790; m. CHRISTIAN FRICK, 19 Nov 1780; b. 02 Sep 1754; d. Williamson, New York. Notes for CHRISTIAN FRICK: Taxed at Manheim in 1779 and 1785. Christian and his wife Elizabeth sold part of the land he obtained from his father by will on 31 August 1805 to Abraham Frick. viii. HEINRICH WITMER, b. Abt. 1762; d. 1815, York County, Pennsylvania; m. SUSANNA EBERSOLE, Dec 1795. ix. CATHARINE WITMER, b. Abt. 1764; m. JOHANNES ESHBACH. x. ABRAHAM WITMER, b. Abt. 1766. xi. JACOB WITMER, b. Abt. 1768; m. SUSANNA HERR, 29 Nov 1796. xii. CHRISTINA WITMER, b. Abt. 1770; m. CHRISTIAN STAUFFER, JR., 02 May 1790, First Reformed Church, Lancaster; b. Abt. 1768, Manor Twp., Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. Notes for CHRISTIAN STAUFFER, JR.: Resided Manor Twp. In 1773 Christian was appointed guardian over Christina's younger siblings; David, Daniel, Esther, and Barbara Witmer. xiii. DAVID WITMER, SR., b. 09 Jun 1772; d. 1843; m. MAGDALENA KAUFFMAN. Notes for DAVID WITMER, SR.: He was one of the Mennonite leaders at Stony Brook. xiv. BARBARA WITMER, b. Abt. 1776. Notes for BARBARA WITMER: Twin. xv. ESTHER WITMER, b. Abt. 1776; m. DANIEL HERR, 29 Nov 1796. Notes for ESTHER WITMER: Twin. xvi. SUSANNA WITMER, b. Abt. 1780. xvii. VERENA WITMER, b. Abt. 1782. xviii. DANIEL WITMER.
First, we are talking here about 2 Peter Witmers. The first Peter Witmer, b. ca. 1712, d. leaving a will in Lebanon Twp, Dauphin Co, in 1794 (will A:314). He emigrated in 1733 with his father Michael and brothers Ulrich and Hans, from Switzerland. He m. Anna Catharine Baughman (or Bachman). In 1811, a settlement of the estate of Anna's brother Christian Bachman listed the following children of Peter Witmer and wife Anna Bachman: Michael, Feronica, Barbara, Elizabeth, Catherine, and Peter. This family was German Reformed. The second Peter Witmer, b. ca 1710-1715, living in 1731 in Germany, immigrated in 1744 from Germany, d. 1792 in Manor Twp, married 3 times: Elizabeth Herr, Magdalena Schellenberger, and Catharine Engel. Had a total of 18 children. The early generations were Mennonites. Resources I have seen (including Richard Davis, well-known author/compiler of Mennonite genealogies) indicate that the Anna Witmer married to Christian Frick was the dau. of Peter Witmer and Catharine Engel. ----- Original Message ----- From: <MIKELEDO@aol.com> To: <PALANCAS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [PALANCAS] Peter Witmer (1787-1849) in West Greentree Brethren Cemetery > Original message: I have a Peter Witmer b. 1710 married four times. Last > names are Baumann, Herr, Shellenberger and Engle. > > > I have the name as Anna Bachman not Baumann, daughter of Michael and > Catherine Bachman of Bern Switzerland. I have Anna Witmer b. 1759 married to > Christian Frick as their daughter. > > Christian and Anna Frick also have a third child, Susan who died in 1792. > > Do I have my Witmers confused? > > Mike > > > ==== PALANCAS Mailing List ==== > This is your list use and enjoy for genealogy. > >
Original message: I have a Peter Witmer b. 1710 married four times. Last names are Baumann, Herr, Shellenberger and Engle. I have the name as Anna Bachman not Baumann, daughter of Michael and Catherine Bachman of Bern Switzerland. I have Anna Witmer b. 1759 married to Christian Frick as their daughter. Christian and Anna Frick also have a third child, Susan who died in 1792. Do I have my Witmers confused? Mike
That would depend on if there was any reason to go before the orphan court, ie, property not listed in a will, children deceased after the will was written, need for guardians, etc. You would have to look it up in the Court records to see if they did indeed have need to go before the court. Yvonne
The Orphan Court listing actually shows the birth order of the females also. The first spouse of Peter Witmer was Elizabeth Herr Brubaker, a widow with four children. Thier children together were Christian (whose son Peter was the petitioner in the OC records), and Elizabeth (w/o Michael Crow). Elizabeth Herr Brubaker Witmer died at or soon after childbirth with daughter Elizabeth, at age 32. The second spouse of Peter Witmer was Magdalena Shellenberger. Thier children were Magdalena, w/o Christian Hoover (Huber), Peter Witmer, Mary, w'o David Myer (she died at age 28, leaving daughter Elizabeth). Magdalena Shellenberger d. at age 42 in 1764. The third spouse of Peter Witmer was Catherine Engel. Their children together were; John, Anna (w/o Christian Frick), Henry, Catherine,(w/o John Eshbach) Abraham, Jacob, David, Christina (w/o Christian Stouffer), Esther(w/o Daniel Herr), Barbara, Daniel, Susanna, and Frena (Veronica). I hope this is helpfull. Yvonne